Professor Beef
Banned
Inuyasha
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The Black Culture Thread |OT2|
- Thread starter DY_nasty
- Start date
Inuyasha
CrazyDogg77
Member
"Hey baby mamas" Somebody kill me. And this winter break has made me realize how boring my hometown is.
Never had one. Don't really want to either.
Yea, shits off the chain. His not seeing it is his loss...
Why?
There's plenty of movies I don't see due to personal convictions. I'm sick of Hollywood whitewashing non-white roles, so I outright refuse to watch movies where A) a white actor is cast to play a character that was intended to be non-white or B) a white character was written into the story for no good reason other than not having a movie that would be completely non-white. I've yet to watch movies like The Help and The Devil's Double, movies that are supposed to be legitimately great films, due to being adamant to subscribing to the self-imposed black out of films of these types.
Maybe Spike Lee simply doesn't want to watch a film that makes light/has fun with the institutions of slavery and Jim Crow, and overuses "Nigger" and "Nigga" to a point where it's commonplace to create slang by embedding them within existing existing words. Maybe he personally considers such qualities to be disrespectful to the struggle of his ancestors. You're free to disagree with such a viewpoint, but it's not like he said the movie should have never been made, nor did he go out of his way to say people should boycott the film, he was approached to answer a question regarding it and he did just that.
Kitschkraft
Member
Par for the course.
So many issues, so much incompetence, so much cot damn incapability....
MWS Natural
Member
I used to get "Black Outs" when I was in college. Would get compliments on it all the time. Of course that was over 10 years ago and it's played out now but it was hot back then.
soundscream
Member
All it really is about is an ongoing beef from the Jakie Brown days. Spike hates QT with a passion, and its all because he is jealous of the success and recognition he has gotten while Spike feels he has not been recognized for his work.
soundscream
Member
Kenny Rodgers Chicken >>>>>>>>> Boston Market, it wasn't even close.
I'm inclined to agree with you.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Speaking of QT.....LIST WARS!
Pulp Fiction > IB > Kill Bill > Django > Reservoir Dogs > Jackie Brown > Death Proof
I was never big on JB and after digesting Django I think I'd place it right in the middle of his work, I had a hard time putting it over Reservoir Dogs. I've seen Reservoir Dogs 6 or 7 times now, and I think Django will cement its place after a few more watches.
Kill Bill really came together for me after a couple watches. Initially I felt that there was an imbalance between QT style dialogue and action, Vol 1 being too action-y and Vol 2 having too much dialogue, but taken in as a whole piece I think it's amazing.
I don't think he'll ever top Pulp Fiction. I saw it when I was really young and never have I been gripped by characters' back and forth banter. At that age that shit was supposed to bore me, but it was so quick and had a rhythm to it. The small talk between buddy hitmen emphasized the extremes, the murder and drug use. I never knew how things would play out and from the opening scene that is made abundantly clear.
Pulp Fiction > IB > Kill Bill > Django > Reservoir Dogs > Jackie Brown > Death Proof
I was never big on JB and after digesting Django I think I'd place it right in the middle of his work, I had a hard time putting it over Reservoir Dogs. I've seen Reservoir Dogs 6 or 7 times now, and I think Django will cement its place after a few more watches.
Kill Bill really came together for me after a couple watches. Initially I felt that there was an imbalance between QT style dialogue and action, Vol 1 being too action-y and Vol 2 having too much dialogue, but taken in as a whole piece I think it's amazing.
I don't think he'll ever top Pulp Fiction. I saw it when I was really young and never have I been gripped by characters' back and forth banter. At that age that shit was supposed to bore me, but it was so quick and had a rhythm to it. The small talk between buddy hitmen emphasized the extremes, the murder and drug use. I never knew how things would play out and from the opening scene that is made abundantly clear.
Kitschkraft
Member
As usual for him, I think that Spike has given people a good opportunity to project their own racial notions, disguised as personal insults.
"WHY HASN'T A BLACK DIRECTOR DONE A MOVIE ON SLAVERY?"
"HOW COME BLACKS CAN SAY IT BUT I CAN'T?"
"BITTER AND ANGRY!"
Etc etc etc. Seems to be the 'twin argument' to go along with Spike hating.
Honestly, I'm feeling like supporting or not supporting Django has turned into some fucked up version of 'the OJ test' and I think that's bullshit.
You honestly think that, given everything that Spike has said in the past, the movies he has himself directed, and just everything that he appears to stand for...this is down to some petty feud between the two men?
Regardless of what you felt about the film, is it really so unlikely that not everyone is going to unconditionally support a movie about enslavement?
MorisUkunRasik
Member
You say that like the movie has a pro-slavery message.
yes.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
he made bamboozled. so yes.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Trulove
Knowledge
Knowledge
...are not acceptable first names, black people! The fuck! Fuck man. I have all of you.
Kitschkraft
Member
Please. I implied nothing of the sort, to suggest that I did would be pure straw man.
Devolution
Member
Honestly I can't take Spike seriously at all. He acts like he owns everything black. Also Jungle Fever was a piece of shit movie that made me think Spike was a racist himself.
soundscream
Member
I would be pissed off if I had worked my ass off to get into the film industry to only be outclassed by a high school dropout video rental clerk.
Professor Beef
Banned
The quality of a movie doesn't depend on someone's educational background, though.
Kitschkraft
Member
I'm sorry but this really frustrates me. Spike has worked with countless white actors. Gave Edward Norton a helluva role in 25th Hour. How is he any more "racist" than the white directors that won't work with blacks at all? "Hugo was a piece of shit, and Scorsese's entire career makes me think he is racist".
The movie is meant to make people feel uncomfortable.
?
C'mon. QT is more successful than most directors.
Devolution
Member
The movie didn't make me uncomfortable at all actually it just seemed to paint interracial relationships in a terrible fucking light. It didn't really explore the issues and the relationship was born of "curiosity" rather than genuine interest. It seemed cheap. Very very cheap.
MWS Natural
Member
I don't think that is fair, interracial relationships in the early 90's were looked at and treated differently than they are now. Much of the attraction was the "forbiddeness" and curiosity of it. I had no issues with the movie at all.
Devolution
Member
Eh I was small then but I dunno, to someone in a more progressive area it just seemed cheap and the friends were real shitheels.
Kitschkraft
Member
I agree with what MWS just said and was pretty much going to say the same thing. JF is pretty damn groundbreaking for 1991...hell, Hollywood rarely dares to show a bm/wf relationship even today (Last major release I can think of was Obsessed)! Just because it showed a dirty, fucked up, fetishized relationship doesn't mean that Spike has any issues with IR dating or that he somehow is a bigot.
Also, have you seen 25th Hour? Edward Norton/Rosario Dawson.
Edit : Forgot that Obsessed had a brutha being stalked by a white woman, wasn't even a relationship!
Devolution
Member
Obsessed doesn't count for anything, ever. Let's forget it happened.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
I got into this in the NBA thread but QT isn't better than Spike. With that said Spike could of been hating based on the script that leaked that had a bunch of harsher scenes removed.
I'm gonna catch Django tomorrow so I will have an opinion for myself. I'm going to see it with 3 Latino friends so I get their opinions too and report.
Times have changed a lot in 20 years. But yeah BK in the late 80', early 90's was a racial hotbed. I remember visiting friends in Bensonhurst and their older Neighbors going out there way to make sure my friends we're OK. Now its different (those bastard neighbors moved to Staten Island and Long Island). However spike wasn't far off then in how things went down.
soundscream
Member
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Not really.... They are in different lanes one does drama the other does action/comedy films. Both have made masterpieces in their Genres.
Malcolm X is not worse than Pulp Fiction and Vice Versa. Reservoir Dogs is not better than Do The Right Thing. So to say one is a better writer or director isn't fair since they have different skill sets.
Also Tyler Perry sucks.... Boondocks explains why.
Also if anyone here has seen Bamboozled you would automatically know why Spike feels the way he does his opinion on Hollywood and race is that it exploits us (aka blaxploitation films) to make money since we rarely control our image.
Malcolm X is not worse than Pulp Fiction and Vice Versa. Reservoir Dogs is not better than Do The Right Thing. So to say one is a better writer or director isn't fair since they have different skill sets.
Also Tyler Perry sucks.... Boondocks explains why.
Also if anyone here has seen Bamboozled you would automatically know why Spike feels the way he does his opinion on Hollywood and race is that it exploits us (aka blaxploitation films) to make money since we rarely control our image.
Quentin gets more opportunities than Spike, but he takes less opportunities than Spike. Spike aspires to more, but he has to deal with being a "Spike Lee" which is very different from being a "Quentin". People expect Spike to redeem them through the power of his art, they expect him to just be as revolutionary and original as 80's Spike, and I'm not sure he has the juice anymore. His chops may have improved with time, but does he still have the fire? I don't think even Spike knows anymore. Quentin is nothing but crazy fire, but it comes out in sparks and spurts. He could still do film with School Daze type crazyness, but I think Spike would be too afraid.
He needs to stop worrying about being the MLK of modern film, and let the chain hang from his neck while he does his thing. Spike needs a gut check.
He needs to stop worrying about being the MLK of modern film, and let the chain hang from his neck while he does his thing. Spike needs a gut check.
Tyler Perry may be a corny director/writer but he doesn't suck. It takes some set of skills to write and produce even for things that come on at 2 a.m. Alfonso Ribeiro, now that dude sucks.
soundscream
Member
QT is more consistent with his material. And Spike does some made for TV like stuff in some of his movies.
And his bias is why he needs to not say stupid shit like he does. He isn't coming from an objective point of view. He has an axe to grind with the Hollywood system, and he feels like QT has it much easier and can get away with much more then he could.
it doesn't take skill to make the stuff Tyler Perry does. he's a good industry guy. i'll give him that.
It's a little deeper then that. Lets not forget Spike spends more time getting a social commentary/agenda through to the viewer, while QT, goes for a more....raw approach of story
telling.
EDIT: Can't hate Tyler Perry. He went after an audience that Hollywood for the most part thought was unmarketable. Even if his movies are weak, he still hit gold with an audience.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
He sucks... I give him props for how he handles his business.... But he sucks. He could fall back and become the black film producer/money man better artist need to succeed but he's too busy making bad action films and playing Madea. Just because his films are popular doesn't make them good.
Not going to argue about his opinion cause that's for him to argue I got to see the film myself.
However Spike filmography is deeper but if you add up all his classics he has about the same amount as QT. As somebody else said Spike needs a gut check. He isn't just a race director since 25th Hour was a classic and Inside Man was good. Oldboy (hopefully with a different twist to keep it fresh) is right up his lane. He needs to worry less about the politics and more about the quality of the script going forward.
You know what you're right. Perry does suck. but Spike Lee is still a salty old man and I got better things to do than defend Tyler Perry's honor. Good night people's!
Spike Lee has the unfortunate burden of being the hope of an entire ethnicity within the film industry. When you think black film, you think Spike. QT is pretty much free to make whatever film he likes. If Spike wants to make a film about World War II, he's pretty much forced to make a film about the Black soldiers of the war, because if he doesn't then nobody will. Knowing that you're one of a handful of prominent black directors in the industry, and that every black related story you don't tell within your movies is a story that is likely never going to be told is a pretty weighty burden to have to carry.
I don't think it's mere coincidence that Steve McQueen's next movies, director of Hunger and Shame, are 12 Years a Slave and a Fela Kuti biopic after realizing that if he doesn't make these movies, then Hollywood sure as hell isn't.
I don't think it's mere coincidence that Steve McQueen's next movies, director of Hunger and Shame, are 12 Years a Slave and a Fela Kuti biopic after realizing that if he doesn't make these movies, then Hollywood sure as hell isn't.
QT does have it easier in Hollywood though.
Kitschkraft
Member
I loved this moment...cot damn were those dudes deer in headlights. "Not stepping into that"...lmao, fuck off!
HOWEVER, my thing is....I would rather he made Shame starring a brutha...that's sorta my attitude right now. I think this is where the industry really gets it wrong. I feel like every common black character and storyline trope has been done over 1000 times at this point. I just want something different. Can I get a Moon starring Idris Elba? That's random as hell, but it's just an example of what I'm speaking towards.
Spike, QT, AND Tyler have all failed in this regard because they all stick to their tropes.
Edit : This is why I think Will and Denzel really stand out from the pack. Yeah they have had their "race films", but both also mix it up quite a bit.
soundscream
Member
Of course he does, but there's no need for Spike to get all up in his Kool-aid, just say no comment and move the fuck on. He's more known for beefing with other directors than making movies, recently.
And while he felt the need to make a black WW2 movie, the one he made was terrible and embarrassing. Red Tails was better, and that movie isn't all that.
PartTimeWarrior
Banned
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