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[Freshmaker]

Can you pretty much place where the attraction comes from in your straight friends too? I'd be curious to hear some of your wisdom on this topic.

Not enough attention from dudes. So they're driven to women as a last resort.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

Not enough attention from dudes. So they're driven to women as a last resort.

Finally you crazy het'ros make sense... you're all rather sad and tragic creatures, aren't you?

 

[hxa155]

I know a lot of people that were gay but now straight. In fact, I think over 50% of teens in the area I grew up in experimented with their sexuality. Most would just proclaim that "you're not gay if you're a top." But in a country where school are separated by gender, this is what happens.

 

[i_am_ben]

Finally you crazy het'ros make sense... you're all rather sad and tragic creatures, aren't you?

I've adopted many heteros through World Vision. For just a dollar a day i can bring some much needed fabulousness into their wretched lives.

 

[Jet Grind Radio!]

I've adopted many heteros through World Vision. For just a dollar a day i can bring some much needed fabulousness into their wretched lives.

:lol

 

[stilgar]

This time, she focuses on the practical. She recommends that I distance myself from my gay friends and take up a sport such as rugby.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[ivysaur12]

I know a lot of people that were gay but now straight. In fact, I think over 50% of teens in the area I grew up in experimented with their sexuality. Most would just proclaim that "you're not gay if you're a top." But in a country where school are separated by gender, this is what happens.

Experimentation and sexual orientation are two different things. And even then, it shows that they obviously have some slight homoerotic tendencies, more than they would be willing to admit.

It's a continuum of attractions. No one is rigidly placed on "100% gay" "50/50" or "100% straight".

 

[soco]

i told my mom that i gave one of my nephews the gay a few months back and she got so pissed at me!

 

[RadioHeadAche]

In my last relationship, I say, I felt profound love towards my boyfriend. "That needs to be broken," she says. "There's a darkness that's very real that keeps you as its dog, but of course our God is more powerful than that."

I always preferred to embrace the darkness.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I love when the ignorant chime in with their theories of the gay universe.

Especially when they say that people "turn" gay because of trauma. :lol

This would suggest most superheroes are gay

 

[Chuckie]

I don't think it's genetic.
so much of it is influenced by environment.

I think you are confusing homosexuality with prison rape.

 

[DECK'ARD]

There is a spate of reports like this in the UK all of a sudden. Don't know why, as there's generally a more educated view about it here.

This article caused quite a fuss a few weeks ago:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/men/article6990013.ece

The day I decided to stop being gay
Twenty years after he came out, Patrick Muirhead, 41, explains why he is suddenly feeling the appeal of the opposite sex.

A minor incident in a barber’s shop last week has helped me to realise that I may no longer be gay. Not a fully fledged homo, anyway; perhaps not even a part-timer who helps the team out when it’s busy. It appears I may be going straight.

Quite a mindboggling read, sections make your jaw drop. It's loaded with so much self-hate stemming from religion and his own warped desire for acceptance from society. He expresses some VERY bigoted and stereotypical views of homosexuality in the process. He did the rounds on TV interviews as well.

But he's fine now that he has 'turned straight'.

*facepalm*

In trying to explain/justify their own actions, these people just risk causing self-hate in others by suggesting it's something that has and needs a 'cure'. Not good =(

 

[SmokyDave]

Setting my feelings on gay pride parades aside:

Every day is fucking straight pride day.

So why haven't I been asked to dance on a float?

I've adopted many heteros through World Vision. For just a dollar a day i can bring some much needed fabulousness into their wretched lives.

Can you sponsor me so I can dance on a float?

 

[hxa155]

Experimentation and sexual orientation are two different things. And even then, it shows that they obviously have some slight homoerotic tendencies, more than they would be willing to admit.

It's a continuum of attractions. No one is rigidly placed on "100% gay" "50/50" or "100% straight".

I know that they're different. But orientation starts with curiosity and experimentation. Many of the ones that were experimental continue to have homosexual relations until they get married. So they could be homosexuals for 10 years and then they just stopped being ones.

 

[Souldriver]

Saying homosexuality is caused by deprivation or trauma's or whatever is such a nasty thing to say.

I'll just go ahead and say that heterosexuality is a malfunction caused by having more than 10 nightmares during your sixth year in life. Whatevah whatevah it's just mah opinion you cant prove mi rong!!

 

[sonicmj1]

Deviations from what?

Perhaps a better way of putting it would be, "Why are there such sharp differences in sexual orientation to begin with?"

I'm not super-educated on the subject, and there's a good chance I'll get absolutely excoriated for this post, but hopefully, I'll be clear enough about what I mean.

In many respects, sexual orientation and fetish are internalized early on, and no ready explanation exists. There isn't a single root genetic or environmental cause.

What makes homosexuality, heterosexuality, bisexuality, etc. acceptable is that these orientations and desires don't harm anyone when properly enacted in human society. Two adults with full knowledge of the consequences consent, and all is right with the world. No one is harmed or taken advantage of. This thought could be extended to most fetishes, which can be expressed in a consensual manner.

These things are separate from the aforementioned zoophilia/pedophilia/etc. because those sexual kinks can only be fully expressed through non-consensual action that harms the other party. As a result, they are classified as mental illness.

While these two broad categories are different in how they are perceived by society (and with good reason), if we want to understand mental causes, we can't dismiss the mental links between them. Just as I don't know or didn't choose why I'm attracted to women, I doubt all pedophiles, for instance, chose to be sexually aroused by children to the exclusion of more developed individuals. And just as this "gay-straight conversion" therapy creates an enormous mental toll on the patient, forced to doubt and suppress his instinctual desires, the same is likely true for those whose sexual desires are classified as mental illness. The latter is morally permissible (unlike the former) because action on that desire hurts others, so that mental cost is a price society is willing to pay.

I'm not entirely sure where I'm going with this (since I'm not entirely sure what RobertM is driving at), but I suspect this is the line of thought he was trying to explain, and I see where he's coming from. The reasons behind why sexual preference turns out the way it does in a given individual aren't widely known, whether they are what society considers "normal" or whether they are "deviations" from that norm. If we are interested in root causes, my first thought would be that all forms of attraction might have something to teach, whether those attractions are socially and morally acceptable or not.

If I am mistaken in believing that sexual orientation and sexual fetish (~~~philia) are at all similar, please correct me. I don't intend to offend.

 

[Xanafalgue]

If you are asking for a source, as in a study or a scientific finding, then I have nothing for you. But I don't need a study to tell me something that is pretty obvious.

I can trace the reasons why homosexulaity developed for all of the gay people that I closely know. Some deny it, and some don't even realize that I know they are gay.

these factors are some of the reasons why homosexuality develops in people, but it doesn't always necessarily mean that people will turn gay because of them:

- Lack of a strong father figure. (no father, dad was too busy, etc..)
- Too attached to their mothers.
- Surrounded by sisters, with no males around him to form bonds with.
- Abused during childhood/teenage years.
- Faced Rejection by a female during childhood/teenage years, and that rejection left a lasting impact.

Is this a joke?

 

[Replicant]

Many of the ones that were experimental continue to have homosexual relations until they get married. So they could be homosexuals for 10 years and then they just stopped being ones.

Or they got married but continue having sex with men on the side/DL. IIRC, there was that report that Mumei posted here about how self-identified 'straight' guys actually have more sex with other guys than self-identified gay guys.

My point is that due to the pressure of society, many men who have attraction to other men have no choice but to self-identify themselves as straight guys even if their feelings may say otherwise. Occasionally, however, their desire arise to the surface.

 

[i_am_ben]

So why haven't I been asked to dance on a float?

Can you sponsor me so I can dance on a float?

As long as you're dancing in your undies. Left to your own devices, you heteros are likely to start dancing in track suit pants and soccer tops. smh.

 

[SmokyDave]

As long as you're dancing in your undies. Left to your own devices, you heteros are likely to start dancing in track suit pants and soccer tops. smh.

Silver undies, pointing a plastic ray gun at random onlookers, I promise.

Spoiler

I was going to wear polyester slacks and a blazer, you caught me

 

[JoeBoy101]

I always preferred to embrace the darkness.

I always preferred to cast Magic Missile at it.

 

[Alcoori]

There is a spate of reports like this in the UK all of a sudden. Don't know why, as there's generally a more educated view about it here.

This article caused quite a fuss a few weeks ago:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/men/article6990013.ece



Quite a mindboggling read, sections make your jaw drop. It's loaded with so much self-hate stemming from religion and his own warped desire for acceptance from society. He expresses some VERY bigoted and stereotypical views of homosexuality in the process. He did the rounds on TV interviews as well.

But he's fine now that he has 'turned straight'.

*facepalm*

In trying to explain/justify their own actions, these people just risk causing self-hate in others by suggesting it's something that has and needs a 'cure'. Not good =(

It is somehow typical of some older gays when being gay wasn't really accepted. I was reading the comment section and found this one that sum up what I think of that article:

Jane P wrote:
Mr. Muirhead, just because your life as a gay man was characterized by meaningless sex and friends that were similar to you doesn't mean other gay men are the same.

It seems to me that you keep going for glamor and appearance: meaningless sex with hot guys, then picking a job that gives you validation, and now you want the validation of being a parent and look good with a cute kid. I think your problem isn't homosexuality, it may be greed and vanity.

Whatever your problem, you have no right to dismiss and denigrate the lives of other gay men.

All those biggots talk about the "homosexual lifestyle". I don't like that expression and have yet to understand what that means.
Does that only relate to having sex with guy or does that mean going cruising, countless sexual encounters, dressing as women, doing drugs and going out every night?
Seriously, I know straight people who do all those things (except they sleep with girls), do you call their lifestyle heterosexual?

 

[FleckSplat]

It's normal to be gay. All little boys think girls have cooties anyway.

Spoiler

joke post is joking

 

[Deleted member 30609]

i think maybe god might be a little bicurious himself

 

[Scootydowopp]

I don't know if i agree with the therapists, but i can't look at a desire to be intimate with someone of the same sex as natural.
I can look at Will Smith, Brad Pitt and any number of male people of fame and objectively say he's handsome or the features of his face pretty.
However, me giving credit where credit is due in regards to looks doesn't continue down the road of saying i wonder how he kisses, smells, etc.
Every part of my male biology is made up to be intimate with women.

Nature laid down the rules millenia ago. Science can subvert them, but its not in the genetic code.

Now, having said that, i'm not gonna grab a pitchfork and rally a mob. Live and let live i say, but someone made a remark about Christians and homosexuality.....
If the word they live by condemns it, they just parrot the line.
Most will leave the hateful judgment out because the hate helps no one, but make no mistake.
The bible they should be living according to makes no allowance for same sex love.

Still, live and let live.

 

[Monocle]

"Conversion therapy" is wicked mindfuckery. Its misguided proponents are destroying lives.

Edit:

If you are asking for a source, as in a study or a scientific finding, then I have nothing for you. But I don't need a study to tell me something that is pretty obvious.

I can trace the reasons why homosexulaity developed for all of the gay people that I closely know. Some deny it, and some don't even realize that I know they are gay.

these factors are some of the reasons why homosexuality develops in people, but it doesn't always necessarily mean that people will turn gay because of them:

- Lack of a strong father figure. (no father, dad was too busy, etc..)
- Too attached to their mothers.
- Surrounded by sisters, with no males around him to form bonds with.
- Abused during childhood/teenage years.
- Faced Rejection by a female during childhood/teenage years, and that rejection left a lasting impact.

Ever heard the phrase "correlation does not equal causation"? Yeah, neat phrase.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

This article caused quite a fuss a few weeks ago:

:lol
i love how he burps and farts with abandon - so that means he must be sort of straight? i'm a complete pig at home and i remain, to be blunt, a complete cock fiend
i feel sorry for the poor girl he enters into a sham marriage with. "well, she's slightly pretty. and learns well"
christ. the comments are a goldmine though!

 

[J Tourettes]

There is a spate of reports like this in the UK all of a sudden. Don't know why, as there's generally a more educated view about it here.

This article caused quite a fuss a few weeks ago:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/men/article6990013.ece



Quite a mindboggling read, sections make your jaw drop. It's loaded with so much self-hate stemming from religion and his own warped desire for acceptance from society. He expresses some VERY bigoted and stereotypical views of homosexuality in the process. He did the rounds on TV interviews as well.

But he's fine now that he has 'turned straight'.

*facepalm*

In trying to explain/justify their own actions, these people just risk causing self-hate in others by suggesting it's something that has and needs a 'cure'. Not good =(

I think the rise of the evangelical churches in the UK has a lot to do with it. UCKG are pretty big now and aren't known for their logical thinking.

 

[J Tourettes]

To the straight people who think they have gay people figured out. Go to your gay friends with your theories and have an actual discussion about their lives. Present your side, and if they are good friends, they won't outright laugh in your face, and will probably educate you a bit.

That's seriously my best advice as anonymous people on the internet aren't going to convince you that you are wrong.

This.

My friend came out to me about 13 odd years ago when we were 17/18. At the time I didn't have any hard opinions either way but speaking to him about it was a real eye opener and certainly coloured my views in the whole nature/nurture debate from then on.

 

[DangerousMali]

"We advise fathers, 'If you don't hug your sons, some other man will'" :lol

 

[Alcoori]

I don't know if i agree with the therapists, but i can't look at a desire to be intimate with someone of the same sex as natural.

It might not be for you but it is for me. I can objectively say a girl is pretty/hot/cute but I'm not wondering how she kisses, how she smells, etc.

Every part of my male biology is made up to be intimate with women.

Nature laid down the rules millenia ago. Science can subvert them, but its not in the genetic code.

What, just the fact that your penis slides into the vagina? You never get a blowjob? People never do anal?
Saying it's not natural is complete BS. Animals do have same sex intercourse, does that make them less natural? If you think that sex is only for procreation, then ok I can get your view. However if you have sex in a purely recreational way, you sir are an hypocrite.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

What, just the fact that your penis slides into the vagina? You never get a blowjob? People never do anal?
Saying it's not natural is complete BS. Animals do have same sex intercourse, does that make them less natural? If you think that sex is only for procreation, then ok I can get your view. However if you have sex in a purely recreational way, you sir are an hypocrite.

the 'its not natural' argument is the same as the 'you can't have kids!' argument. totally missing the point, which is that people can't voluntarily change their sexuality, regardless of how many bullshit argument someone can come up with about the 'way things are meant to be'. it may change over time, but you can't just change it like a tv channel. 'i can't see it as natural!' - noone cares. it changes nothing; and if he knew any gay people he'd know this.

why anyone gives a shit and try to change people is anyone's guess. their very claim that being gay is immoral (and that they can 'cure' it) is what causes so many issues to begin with.

 

[aoi tsuki]

"We advise fathers, 'If you don't hug your sons, some other man will'" :lol

This really needs to be made into a spoof propaganda poster.

 

[Monocle]

[snip]
Nature laid down the rules millenia ago. Science can subvert them, but its not in the genetic code.

Of course you're aware that homosexual behavior is widely observed in the animal kingdom. Nature itself presents steadfast evidence that same-sex attraction is a natural occurrence, not a purely human construct.

 

[Jin34]

I forgot to mention, what's with the whole "we don't treat lesbians" thing? Is it the whole gir/girl is hot, guy/guy is icky thing? I wouldnt think crazy evangelists would care about that distinction. Then again it sure did sound to me like that "therapist" mindfucks some guys into having sex with him as part of his therapy.

 

[orioto]

My theory about that is that all Nature thought about to maintain the logical way (the reproductive way) of things, for us, is the Oedipus complex. But the fact is that the shit is kinda weak... And modern society tend to weaken it more and more.

When you think about it, for homos, as for straight people, the fact of feeling attracted or having sex with the non desired sex is not that hard. it's all in our mind and in the end, not that hard to tweak.

And there is no "natural" way, other than the animal logic. Believe me, man lost all "natural" he ever had the day he began to ask questions about who he was and doing "human" things.

 

[LosDaddie]

This is not surprising. I know a lot of Christians who firmly believe being gay is a choice

 

[gofreak]

Just read the article in the OP...some serious crackpot stuff there. And not even really funny - I mean that women trying to coax abuse out of someone's past regardless of whether it actually existed or not is so amazingly dangerous I don't know where to begin with it. Ditto with that 'God can heal HIV' shit.

I also found it kind of tragic reading the other guy's story, the other male 'therapist'. He's clearly still a homo. He just represses his sexual urges. That's where all this so-called 'conversion' seems to wind up - repression of their nature rather than actual change of it. If anything they should be charged with false advertisement...

 

[ToxicAdam]

I forgot to mention, what's with the whole "we don't treat lesbians" thing? Is it the whole gir/girl is hot, guy/guy is icky thing? I wouldnt think crazy evangelists would care about that distinction. Then again it sure did sound to me like that "therapist" mindfucks some guys into having sex with him as part of his therapy.

I would imagine their success rate is better with gay males. The men would probably have a greater motivation to "change" because there is a greater social stigma attached.

 

[SmokyDave]

I would imagine their success rate is better with gay males. The men would probably have a greater motivation to "change" because there is a greater social stigma attached.

That and the fact that these 'therapists' have little interest in asking women to describe their sex lives in full and frank detail. Less to masturbate over later on.

 

[gofreak]

I would imagine their success rate is better with gay males. The men would probably have a greater motivation to "change" because there is a greater social stigma attached.

Bingo. I've found more gay males to be insecure about their sexuality than gay girls, a lot more caught up about it. In other words, in my experience gay girls have their heads too well screwed on to fall for this shit and to make good prey for these people.

That and the fact that these 'therapists' have little interest in asking women to describe their sex lives in full and frank detail. Less to masturbate over later on.

In fairness it sounds like a lot of these therapists are homos themselves. So actually, maybe that's another reason. Getting a girl to talk about being naked in front of a mirror touching herself might not be quite as...'satisfying'...for a male therapist in this field.

Seriously though, I just think it's a supply demand thing. In my experience there's probably fewer lesbians out there who'd be vulnerable to this kind of stuff...like I say, they typically have their heads too well screwed on IMO. 'Therapists' in this field probably consider them stubborn/belligerent/beyond help as a result, but really they're just well-adjusted secure adults. Not a good target audience for these people.

 

[Alcoori]

Ditto with that 'God can heal HIV' shit.

Oh yeah, when I read that I was like, WTF?

In the video of Bill Maher going to interview an ex-gay, nothing about the guy says "ex". It's just sad.

 

[Mumei]

This thread is glorious. I love juniors (and apparently a Member who wasn't paying any attention) that come in and say the stupidest things.

1. Psychoanalytic theories of homosexuality haven't held up - while it is true that many gay men describe their relationships with their mothers as close and relationships with fathers as being distant, studies suggest that the distance of fathers to their children has more to do with a response to existing gender variant behavior than a cause of them.

2. Hormone imbalances are not a cause of homosexuality. When it was first realized, for instance, that hormone levels in gay men differed from heterosexual men, the army attempted to treat three hundred homosexual men during World War II by injecting them with testosterone, which caused, "the worst homosexual problem on their hands that they had ever had, because they increased the intensity of the drive of these men, you see. It did not modify the direction of their behavior at all." Studies in general have confirmed that adjusting hormone levels merely changes the libido; it doesn't change the underlying attractions.

 

[i_am_ben]

I don't know if i agree with the therapists, but i can't look at a desire to be intimate with someone of the same sex as natural.
I can look at Will Smith, Brad Pitt and any number of male people of fame and objectively say he's handsome or the features of his face pretty.
However, me giving credit where credit is due in regards to looks doesn't continue down the road of saying i wonder how he kisses, smells, etc.
Every part of my male biology is made up to be intimate with women.

Nature laid down the rules millenia ago. Science can subvert them, but its not in the genetic code.

Now, having said that, i'm not gonna grab a pitchfork and rally a mob. Live and let live i say, but someone made a remark about Christians and homosexuality.....
If the word they live by condemns it, they just parrot the line.
Most will leave the hateful judgment out because the hate helps no one, but make no mistake.
The bible they should be living according to makes no allowance for same sex love.

Still, live and let live.

It's OK you don't understand being gay. I don't understand being straight. How guys get erections over women I'll never know :lol

However, when it comes to nature there are few rules. It is a constant state of flux of which homosexuality has been part of the human species from the very beginning.

What do you mean by science subverting the rule of nature? I don't really get you.

 

[Mumei]

Every part of my male biology is made up to be intimate with women.

Nature laid down the rules millenia ago. Science can subvert them, but its not in the genetic code.

"The penis smooth and round was made / with anus best to match it. / Had it been made for cunnus' sake, / it had been formed like a hatchet."

The Arabian Nights.

Spoiler

it's a joke

Uh, for anyone who wants sources, do you prefer books or websites?

 

[RiskyChris]

I don't know if i agree with the therapists, but i can't look at a desire to be intimate with someone of the same sex as natural.

Posting on a message board while in a monogamous breeder relationship is natural, look it up in the genetic code.

 

[i_am_ben]

"The penis smooth and round was made / with anus best to match it. / Had it been made for cunnus' sake, / it had been formed like a hatchet."

The Arabian Nights.

Spoiler

it's a joke

Uh, for anyone who wants sources, do you prefer books or websites?

Surprise me Mumei. I always enjoy it when you completely decimate people in an objective and well mannered response :lol

 

[Amibguous Cad]

Then how do you classify homosexuality, deviation from the norm? Genetic disorder? Societal misunderstanding? As far as I know, there are no biological advantages to homosexuality when reproduction is concerned. And then we have other deviations: zoosexuality and pedophilia, which again shouldn't be overlooked when addressing and making conclusions about disorders.
Now on the issue of my statements. I was careful about my wording, that's why I didn't say mental illness, but attributes of consciousness. You can not be unless you look back on yourself, but how you look and interpret is another issue.

Why do you insist on shoving psychology through a rubric of evolutionary theory? Why do you insist on shoving ethics through a rubric of evolutionary theory?

Reproduction is not the summum bonum of human affairs. Use of contraception isn't disordered and neither is homosexuality.

And it's not like homosexuals can't reproduce.

Same argument would apply, why are there deviations?

Because diversity is the natural state of human affairs?

Every part of my male biology is made up to be intimate with women.

Explain the prostate.

 

[mantidor]

How natural it is is such a dumb argument, isn't there an insect species in which the male actually breaks open the torax of the female with it's penis to impregnate her? this thing that the vagina is meant for the penis is so dumb, in nature, even the unimaginable happens, that's the way nature is.

Uh, for anyone who wants sources, do you prefer books or websites?

Yes! I want sources on psychoanalysis proposing the cause of homosexuality as absent father and close mother, because all I got was the wiki article I cited in the last page in which Freud apparently never mentioned this, he believed both biological and nurture related events had influence.

 

[saltinekracka]

This thread is glorious. I love juniors (and apparently a Member who wasn't paying any attention) that come in and say the stupidest things.

1. Psychoanalytic theories of homosexuality haven't held up - while it is true that many gay men describe their relationships with their mothers as close and relationships with fathers as being distant, studies suggest that the distance of fathers to their children has more to do with a response to existing gender variant behavior than a cause of them.

2. Hormone imbalances are not a cause of homosexuality. When it was first realized, for instance, that hormone levels in gay men differed from heterosexual men, the army attempted to treat three hundred homosexual men during World War II by injecting them with testosterone, which caused, "the worst homosexual problem on their hands that they had ever had, because they increased the intensity of the drive of these men, you see. It did not modify the direction of their behavior at all." Studies in general have confirmed that adjusting hormone levels merely changes the libido; it doesn't change the underlying attractions.

So juniors are stupid because they don't cater to a hive mind mentality? Because they might have something different to say? Because you've been a GAF member longer than someone else doesn't exactly make you a superior being. Also, a condescending attitude doesn't validate you or anyone else's argument. /rant

Nothing I stated has anything to do with some study on family values. It's only my experiences. I'm not stating it as fact, I'm just stating a strong correlation. As far as I know, smoking hasn't been proven to cause cancer, either...