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The Executive Leadership at 343 Needs to Go

Shubh_C63

Member
Ok how about we don't assume these people personality is all around SJW stuff.

Also there could a chance they are just doing the best they can. Obviously not ok if we are buying the product but maybe it's their skill ceiling. Maybe the wise decision is to not buy, like I didn't with WC3Reforged.

Also,
Halo 4 2012: In house game. Wide negative reception of Multiplayer, Universe Building, and Art Style
People were mad about its art style ? I loved the art style, it holds to even this day compared to Infinite. (Have not played H4, only seen)
 

FireFly

Member
343 shows that you simply want the best people for the job, not diversity for the sake of it. And Diversity means to be an even spread, this Bonnie woman seems to want 100% female workforce. Fine, but deliver. Get the best people, men or women.

The problem is that if you have legit criticism about this franchise now, you'll likely be shot down with remarks about bigotry. Even though their game sucks. Hell, I never knew about their diversity push until a year ago or so, and thought Halo's been shit since 4.
It looks there are about 60 employees in the International Women's Day picture, and the last estimate we have for the total number of employees was 450 in 2016.

It seems to me that it's the opposite way around: criticism of the game automatically becomes criticism of the amount of "diversity" in the studio, even though no one has any real insight into the development process.
 

mcjmetroid

Member
I am not onboard for demanding people get fired. Healthy criticism and acknowledging failings/shortcomings is fair game, but when you stray into requesting they lose their job, that's a line crossed IMO.
Nobody would get fired that high up in a position though. Perhaps she should be moved to a role more suited to her within Microsoft.
 
It looks there are about 60 employees in the International Women's Day picture, and the last estimate we have for the total number of employees was 450 in 2016.

It seems to me that it's the opposite way around: criticism of the game automatically becomes criticism of the amount of "diversity" in the studio, even though no one has any real insight into the development process.

Like I said, go on track record of output, international players, launch quality, multiplayer retention, campaign reviews, working games etc. I have zero care about their hiring or staff practices. I care about the output of the resulting game, whomever has the talent or leadership. If I look at the track record of 343 as a whole studio I'm not super impressed as I was with say CE or H2 or H3 by comparison.

What company in the world would retain the leadership that has objectively failed at launch for 2 out of 3 of their last major products or services?
 

FireFly

Member
Like I said, go on track record of output, international players, launch quality, multiplayer retention, campaign reviews, working games etc. I have zero care about their hiring or staff practices. I care about the output of the resulting game, whomever has the talent or leadership. If I look at the track record of 343 as a whole studio I'm not super impressed as I was with say CE or H2 or H3 by comparison.

What company in the world would retain the leadership that has objectively failed at launch for 2 out of 3 of their last major products or services?
True, but the underlying problems have to be fixed rather than just reshuffling senior management. For example, if there is an overreliance on contractors, then that needs to be addressed; if there is an issue with the underlying technology, then they may need to re-architect parts of the engine, and then focus on changing the way their technology is developed in the first place. If these issues would be best addressed by a different management team, then sure, it makes sense to clear house.
 
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As others have said 343 should never have been granted access to make a Halo game until they had earned the right. Microsoft have other IPs that they could have worked on without the pressure involved in producing a system selling Halo game. The rumours of $500 million budget for Infinite is a ridiculous joke considering 343 don’t have a single top tier game to their name.

IPs at Microsoft should be more respected and coveted. There should be incentives for the studios to work on one of the big ones when they show they can make a great game I.e. Playground Games getting Fable Cause they earned the right to it on the back of their excellent Horizon games.
 

Bragr

Banned
Am I the only one who thinks that making Infinite into a 10 year service game is a problem? if it comes up short, as I assume it will, it will strand the entire Halo franchise for 10 years.

They both had the Halo franchise for about a decade now. During that time:

Bungie: Halo, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 3: ODST, Halo: Reach.

343: Halo 4, Halo 5.

After the Halo Infinite fiasco, that studio needs to be rearranged, they have had too many chances at this point. Considering the money Microsoft is throwing around, hiring some senior proven developers to run that studio should not be a problem.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
If it comes up short they'll obviously abandon it sooner than 10 years or have some token insignificant support there like cycling the preexisting events and what not, just to be able to say they kept the promise.

They're not gonna keep sinking big money into it for no reason or something, lol. Plans change (and it might not even be a real plan, just big talk to convince people it's made to be awesome and have longevity).
 
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Am I the only one who thinks that making Infinite into a 10 year service game is a problem? if it comes up short, as I assume it will, it will strand the entire Halo franchise for 10 years.
Halo hasn't been Halo since 4. I believe Destiny is more Halo than 343 Halo.
The service game itself is not a problem - Destiny is doing just fine.

If their budget is bigger than 200kk, then it means they could have created GTA5 level game already. Yet we got Craig. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Fuck, I really wanted Halo to be better but 343 just kills it for me. I don't wish for anyone to lose their jobs but I got be wondering what Microsoft thinks about all of this in the long run after all the latest acquisitions. It wouldn't surprise me 343I getting disbanded and its employees being sent as a workforce to other Microsoft Studios.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
343 shows that you simply want the best people for the job, not diversity for the sake of it. And Diversity means to be an even spread, this Bonnie woman seems to want 100% female workforce. Fine, but deliver. Get the best people, men or women.

The problem is that if you have legit criticism about this franchise now, you'll likely be shot down with remarks about bigotry. Even though their game sucks. Hell, I never knew about their diversity push until a year ago or so, and thought Halo's been shit since 4.


Why are you blaming women for i343' mistakes? Stop being so weak.
 

lock2k

Banned
The entire “Diversity” push is an idealogical hellhole that falls apart upon inspection. Since when are ideas distributed differently based on skin color/gender/ethnicity? That in itself is so unbelievably stupid (and has no basis in neuroscience, by the way) and actually, prejudiced. The very notion is saying “Black people have different ideas because they have black skin and that means their brains are different than other people”. Uh. What?

343i is a beautiful example of how a “diversity” priority in hiring ruins your company by removing the focus on hiring the very most talented people, regardless of skin color/gender identity/religion, and instead filling a blanket, predetermined quota of physical appearances/sexes.

This comment should be carved in stone or at least sent out to every university for every motherfucker to read and think about it. I agree wholeheartedly.
 

ultrazilla

Member
12638623_0.jpg
 
Craig appeared for literally a millisecond. Someone paused at the right time to capture it.
It doesn't matter. Craig has defined Halo Infinite for the Internet Community and will associate with Halo for quite some time.
In general, Microsoft constantly has issues with demos - they are either CG or lackluster. They should learn from Sony in that regard.
 

Bergoglio

Member
343i serves as a shining example of what happens when you hire with a “diversity first” ideology. You get sub-par employees who were rewarded their positions because of their genitalia or skin pigment rather than diversity of thought or more importantly, their competence. Hopefully (but very unlikely) Microsoft will learn from this and hire only the best employees to make the best Halo games, it’s been an embarrassing and gruesome experiment to witness.

Pure gold.

And what about Ubisoft?
 

VertigoOA

Banned
Would like to know what the rumor is about for sure.

I have no faith in 343. They definitely need a shake up. Their track record to me has been pretty abysmal. But that’s been said a thousand times over and more...
 

lefty1117

Gold Member
Just responding to the first post, did not read whole thread. I think it's fine to make changes based on the performance of the games but when you start throwing feminazi and sjw and other more opinionated stuff in there, as well as making it personal by including their pictures, I think the argument you're trying to make loses validity. Better if you don't mix opinion with facts. The facts are the metrics around the sales performance of the game, and the aggregate critical/user review scores. Everything else is opinion. (ie, what you call "sjw" and is a negative in your mind, to someone else means inclusive and they're happy about it. instead of worrying about stuff like that, let's just focus on results)
 

SpartanN92

Banned
Also,

People were mad about its art style ? I loved the art style, it holds to even this day compared to Infinite. (Have not played H4, only seen)

Yes. Halo 4’s art direction is widely disliked by fans of the franchise.
They made lots of unnecessary changes just because. I’m not gonna beat this dead horse any further so I’ll put it this way: There is a reason why in Infinite all the designs look closer to their Halo 1-Reach designs and not like their 4-5 designs.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
Would like to know what the rumor is about for sure.

I have no faith in 343. They definitely need a shake up. Their track record to me has been pretty abysmal. But that’s been said a thousand times over and more...

It might be time to just call this whole 343 experiment a failure and wrap it up. How much worse would Halo games be if they just gave the game to a studio like Sumo Digital or Asobo to work on?


Craig appeared for literally a millisecond. Someone paused at the right time to capture it.

No, it was part of their pack of official screenshots that came out alongside the trailer.

 
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ripeavocado

Banned
343 has been a clusterfuck since its incepetion, their employees should not pay the toll for their managers mistakes, they must go and the performance of those who put them in charge should be reviewed.

Halo was the crown jewel of MGS now it's a joke.

They had plenty of time and resources potentially available to develop Infinite, something went horribly wrong and whoever is responsible must pay.
 

Bragr

Banned
Halo hasn't been Halo since 4. I believe Destiny is more Halo than 343 Halo.
The service game itself is not a problem - Destiny is doing just fine.

If their budget is bigger than 200kk, then it means they could have created GTA5 level game already. Yet we got Craig. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Do you really want Halo to be like Destiny though? I think Halo is a franchise that needs installments, like Halo 1, 2 and 3, with new engines and major improvements. I like Destiny, but those new expansions certainly don't feel like new games. Not only that, but Halo should be a major selling point for Xbox, its identity is tied to Xbox and new installments should generate hype and anticipation for the brand. A 10 year Halo would be cool for 2 years, then lame for 8.
 

Bragr

Banned
If it comes up short they'll obviously abandon it sooner than 10 years or have some token insignificant support there like cycling the preexisting events and what not, just to be able to say they kept the promise.

They're not gonna keep sinking big money into it for no reason or something, lol. Plans change (and it might not even be a real plan, just big talk to convince people it's made to be awesome and have longevity).
I don't know about that, when I say come up short, I mean a 85 metacritic game or some such, a game that's generally great but not good enough to be a 10 year game. With the full support of Xbox and the name of Halo though, I expect it to still get a decent audience, and we will be left with a decent game that simmers for 10 years instead of having 2-3 full Halo sequels.
 
It might be time to just call this whole 343 experiment a failure and wrap it up. How much worse would Halo games be if they just gave the game to a studio like Sumo Digital or Asobo to work on?




No, it was part of their pack of official screenshots that came out alongside the trailer.

No, it wasn't.
 

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
I think 343 lacks a great creative director. I have had no real problems with the gameplay of the last 2 Halo games, and the multiplayer in 5 was really good. The single player story just isn't what it use to be. We need a new great single player story.
 

oldergamer

Member
I think 343 lacks a great creative director. I have had no real problems with the gameplay of the last 2 Halo games, and the multiplayer in 5 was really good. The single player story just isn't what it use to be. We need a new great single player story.
The single player story hasn't been good since halo 2. Its over complicated.

Have you seen the video recapping the entire Halo story? it's a total mess.
 
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oldergamer

Member
Anyway, decisions regarding management at any game developer should not be made based on overly entitled armchair developers that don't know where the issues really are, or what the underlying problem is.

I find it fucking annoying people on a forum are calling for people to get fired, which is mostly due to a unfinished demo of a recent game and unconfirmed rumors of development problems. anyone on the forum that hasn't been involved in game development, really has no fucking clue what they are talking about.
 

SafeOrAlone

Banned
Am I the only one who thinks that making Infinite into a 10 year service game is a problem? if it comes up short, as I assume it will, it will strand the entire Halo franchise for 10 years.

They both had the Halo franchise for about a decade now. During that time:

Bungie: Halo, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 3: ODST, Halo: Reach.

343: Halo 4, Halo 5.

After the Halo Infinite fiasco, that studio needs to be rearranged, they have had too many chances at this point. Considering the money Microsoft is throwing around, hiring some senior proven developers to run that studio should not be a problem.

To me, it seems to not only be a poor planning strategy, but a poor marketing strategy as well.

Keep these things close to the vest. I don't feel like the average fan of video games is salivating when a studio tells us they'll be supporting a game with constant updates for a decade. I know I don't. Sure, we want our games supported, but "games as a service", at this point, gives us anxiety not optimism. And now that the word is out there, 343 will look incredibly silly if things don't work out the way they are optimistically hoping. Furthermore, If the game is great, we'd be willing buy the sequel in five years.
It's akin to film franchises announcing these "shared universes" before the first film in the franchise is even out, and then we see it crash and bomb.

Long story short, don't try and sell us on a "10 year game", because it doesn't excite us and could easily convey the idea that you don't know what you're doing should you need to call an audible.
 
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Skullkid94700

Neo Member
The single player story hasn't been good since halo 2. Its over complicated.

Have you seen the video recapping the entire Halo story? it's a total mess.

Agreed, but Halo 5 had a great multiplayer experience. Warzone was great, Firefight is awesome and I dont hate the REQ system. I think it spices up gameplay and makes things fresh. Classic Multiplayer felt pretty good as well.
 

Kssio_Aug

Member
Halo hasn't been Halo since 4. I believe Destiny is more Halo than 343 Halo.
The service game itself is not a problem - Destiny is doing just fine.

If their budget is bigger than 200kk, then it means they could have created GTA5 level game already. Yet we got Craig. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Nah... to be fair, I would never trade Halo 5 by Destiny. Imo Halo 5 is a much better game, and definitely more Halo than Destiny. (as it obviously should've been)

And I am not even defending 343. I think there's definitely something wrong with this studio since every single Halo they released up until this date (Halo 4, Halo 5 and Halo MCC) came packed with at least one serious issue. Halo 4 had the problem of being considerably worse in both SP and MP compared to Halo 1 to Reach; Halo 5 had the issue of having a very problematic campaign with a story that made no good for the franchise at all; and Halo MCC had that stupidly broken MP release.

But I believe that there is a portion of the team that is very competent. Halo 5 looks and plays great for the platform it was meant to run on (Xbox One fat) and I had tons of fun with it's multiplayer.
 
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