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[Freshmaker]

Aragorn isn't in the two Hobbit movies. Legolas is only in it because his father is King Thranduil of Mirkwood.

Fanficcy. Hopefully he's the one who taught Bard how to use a bow. That'll sew it up nicely.

 

[dmshaposv]

He had orcs rape female women.

Im dying at "female women".

Anyway love fotor. Movie of the decade. Gandalf fall, boromir death and samwise jumping in the river scenes make me cry like a little girl to this day.

 

[elrechazado]

Fanficcy. Hopefully he's the one who taught Bard how to use a bow. That'll sew it up nicely.

Is it really the same thing? Thranduil is in the book, we know for a fact that legolas is his son. Is it really a stretch that he might have been in his father's kingdom during those events?

edit - were you talking about aragorn only?

 

[Freshmaker]

Is it really the same thing? Thranduil is in the book, we know for a fact that legolas is his son. Is it really a stretch that he might have been in his father's kingdom during those events?

He's not in the book. No dice.

edit - were you talking about aragorn only?

No. I was wrong about Aragorn though it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was present.

 

[apana]

Saruman's army kind of sucks. Each time a hero needs to escape they conveniently start fighting with one another. I can't complain though, I love how crazy they are. I wanted to see more of the Orc-Uruk Hai relationship and conflict. Man flesh!

 

[CrocMother]

Saruman's army kind of sucks. Each time a hero needs to escape they conveniently start fighting with one another. I can't complain though, I love how crazy they are. I wanted to see more of the Orc-Uruk Hai relationship and conflict. Man flesh!

Haha I still use that with my friends.

"You smell something?"

"MAN FLESH"

 

[StealthGoblin]

Haha I still use that with my friends.

"You smell something?"

"MAN FLESH"

What aabaat his legs. He don't need those!

LOOKS LIKE MEATS BACK ON THE MENU, BOYS!

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Previous popularity has little bearing on continuing an established series of films. In fact, it's relatively unknown status among the average movie goer would only help it. Yeah, we know it as basically the Old Testament of Middle Earth, but once you put out a trailer with the LOTR font on it, tie the movies together with a Shore composition and some of the more flashy segments from the book...you got yourself something people would want to watch.

I'll give you the screenplay would be difficult to manage, but considering the magic they worked with LOTR...I'd say it's definitely doable. Especially if they're not restricted to a single film format...which given the Hobbit, they're avoiding like the plague regardless of book length.



Well...they're already in that territory - from a non-Tolkien fan's perspective. IE, most of the audience.

The biggest problem facing the adaptation of The Silmarillion right now is the lack of a central protagonist who lasts the breadth of the narrative and that the general film going public can actually sympathise and relate to. The LOTR's has Frodo and Sam and the rest of the Fellowship to a lesser extent and The Hobbit has Bilbo. That just isn't the case with Sil. There are many great heroic warriors to chose from, but most of them end up dying, some heroically, others in the most torturous ways possible. Another problem would be the fact that the Elves are the primary focus of the Sil, it's their time in the spotlight, their story of the war that they waged on Melkor, but could the audience relate to Elves in the same way they do to the race of men (hobbits included)? I'm not sure.

There would have to be some elegant and very thorough script writing involved and many things would have to be omitted. They could relegate the Elves into the background and focus on the race of men dealing with Melkor, but the Tolkien purists who are already very vocal about the LOTR adaptations and are very weary about The Hobbit, well... They would be up in arms if the Elves were anything less than the main focal point of the narrative.

Personally, I'd go with chapters dealing with Beren and Luthien, the sundering of the Elves, their exile from Valinor, the events befalling Hurin and his kin and the fall of Gondolin and Beleriand and finish with the War of Wrath. The creation of Arda, Melkor's discord and his wars with the Valar and his first defeat could be dealt with in a prologue, similar to the one in Fellowship of the Ring. A trilogy detailing these aspects of the Sil in a well written narrative would work.

If not, just go the Game of Thrones route.

 

[CrocMother]

just go the Game of Thrones route.

This is the answer.

 

[Deadly]

From what I read on wikipedia about the Silmarillion, it dwelves deep into Tolkien lore while the LOTR trilogy wasn't that indepth. The casual movie-goer would be quite confused.

 

[elrechazado]

From what I read on wikipedia about the Silmarillion, it dwelves deep into Tolkien lore while the LOTR trilogy wasn't that indepth. The casual movie-goer would be quite confused.

would never work as a movie. There's at least 20 plot stories as epic by themselves as the entire lotr trilogy.

 

[CrocMother]

I wouldn't even mind if it was animated...

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Haha I still use that with my friends.

"You smell something?"

"MAN FLESH"

"You do not know pain, you do not know fear, you will taste man flesh."

I always thought that this could applied to another scenario involving... well you know.

 

[WanderingWind]

The biggest problem facing the adaptation of The Silmarillion right now is the lack of a central protagonist who lasts the breadth of the narrative and that the general film going public can actually sympathise and relate to. The LOTR's has Frodo and Sam and the rest of the Fellowship to a lesser extent and The Hobbit has Bilbo. That just isn't the case with Sil. There are many great heroic warriors to chose from, but most of them end up dying, some heroically, others in the most torturous ways possible. Another problem would be the fact that the Elves are the primary focus of the Sil, it's their time in the spotlight, their story of the war that they waged on Melkor, but could the audience relate to Elves in the same way they do to the race of men (hobbits included)? I'm not sure.

There would have to be some elegant and very thorough script writing involved and many things would have to be omitted. They could relegate the Elves into the background and focus on the race of men dealing with Melkor, but the Tolkien purists who are alreay very vocal about the LOTR adaptations and are very weary about The Hobbit, well... They would be up in arms if the Elves were anything less than the main focal point of the narrative.

Personally, I'd go with chapters dealing with Beren and Luthien, the sundering of the Elves, their exile from Valinor, the events befalling Hurin and his kin and the fall of Gondolin and Beleriand and finish with the War of Wrath. The creation of Arda, Melkor's discord and his wars with the Valar and his first defeat could be dealt with in a prologue, similar to the one in Fellowship of the Ring. A trilogy detailing these aspects of the Sil in a well written narrative would work.

If not, just go the Game of Thrones route.

Well, you can't just throw Hobbits in as relatable characters and dismiss Elves wholesale. I mean, in terms of how they appear in film, one has pointy ears, the other are shorter with big, hairy feet. That's a non-issue.

As to the rest...yeah. Exactly. There is plenty of material to choose from - almost too much in fact. Yet, we've seen successful movies facing the same issues. Plenty of stories to choose from, plenty of visuals and plenty of action to fill in the "boring" parts.

I'll personally dress up like Frodo and do a tap dance if the movie isn't made in the next 10-20 years.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Well, you can't just throw Hobbits in as relatable characters and dismiss Elves wholesale. I mean, in terms of how they appear in film, one has pointy ears, the other are shorter with big, hairy feet. That's a non-issue.

As to the rest...yeah. Exactly. There is plenty of material to choose from - almost too much in fact. Yet, we've seen successful movies facing the same issues. Plenty of stories to choose from, plenty of visuals and plenty of action to fill in the "boring" parts.

I'll personally dress up like Frodo and do a tap dance if the movie isn't made in the next 10-20 years.

Yes, that's certainly true.

But then who do you go with?

Fëanor seems the obvious choice, but when you get down it and really look at him as a character, he was an arrogant sod, who committed the first act of kin slaying and ends up dying early on in the narrative after been beaten down by a group of Balrogs. Not leading character material in a fantasy epic.

Fingolfin was more likeable, but ends up enraged and mad and dies while battling Morgoth, removing himself from the narrative.

Finrod is another likeable character, but dies in his own pits at the hand of Sauron and his wolves.

Angrod and Aegnor weren't fleshed out much as characters and suffered the same fate as those mentioned above.

Thingol is far too lordly to be considered as a main character and isn't fully involved in the War of the Jewels and suffers a pretty ignominious death.

Turgon's pretty interesting and would make a great on screen character, but again he doesn't make it to the end.

One of Fëanor's sons could possibly be used; Maedhros for example. A tortured elf caught between his moral compass and his duty to honour his father's oath. He does make it to the end, just about. He does kill himself though, taking one of the Silmarils with him. Not a great ending for a character that you've invested time in. Could be a bit like Gollum in that regard though.

There are others as well and therein lies the problem. There's also the race of men to consider; Beren, Tuor, Hurin, Turin.

Tuor has the best ending out of those mentioned, but leaves the narrative far too early.

And the inverse of that is Eärendil (also has a great fate), who comes into the narrative far too late.

The potential scriptwriters have a hell of a job in front of them, far more than the scriptwriters of the Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Oh, and the dumbest thing of all PJ did: not using that absolutely brilliant take of Aragorn's speech at Pelennor from the trailer. Viggo absolutely killed that. Instead, in the film, we got perhaps the worst take Viggo ever produced, which totally kills the mood that scene should have had.

Thankfully they used the most awesome Bernard Hill take of his Theoden speech at Pelennor to offset that.

Theoden's speech before the charge (and the charge after)>everything else in trilogy.

Just my opinion. That scene is just so fucking ace. And Bernard kills it.

 

[WanderingWind]

Yes, that's certainly true.

But then who do you go with?

Fëanor seems the obvious choice, but when you get down it and really look at him as a character, he was an arrogant sod, who committed the first act of kin slaying and ends up dying early on in the narrative after been beaten down by a group of Balrogs. Not leading character material in a fantasy epic.

Fingolfin was more likeable, but ends up enraged and mad and dies while battling Morgoth, removing himself from the narrative.

Finrod is another likeable character, but dies in his own pits at the hand of Sauron and his wolves.

Angrod and Aegnor weren't fleshed out much as characters and suffered the same fate as those mentioned above.

Thingol is far too lordly to be considered as a main character and isn't fully involved in the War of the Jewels and suffers a pretty ignominious death.

Turgon's pretty interesting and would make a great on screen character, but again he doesn't make it to the end.

One of Fëanor's sons could possibly be used; Maedhros for example. A tortured elf caught between his moral compass and his duty to honour his father's oath. He does make it to the end, just about. He does kill himself though, taking one of the Silmarils with him. Not a great ending for a character that you've invested time in. Could be a bit like Gollum in that regard though.

There are others as well and therein lies the problem. There's also the race of men to consider; Beren, Tuor, Hurin, Turin.

Tuor has the best ending out of those mentioned, but leaves the narrative far too early.

And the inverse of that is Eärendil (also has a great fate), who comes into the narrative far too late.

The potential scriptwriters have a hell of a job in front of them, far more than the scriptwriters of the Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.

Yeah, there are a lot of characters and plots to choose from. But the material is there and there are plenty of opportunities for films based on it. If the Hobbit makes bank, there is no way they don't look at an adaption. I'd totally be for a mini-series and the prescendent is there for that as well. Obviously, we can't see the future, but I just don't see them leaving the potential on the table.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Theoden's speech before the charge (and the charge after)>everything else in trilogy.

Just my opinion. That scene is just so fucking ace. And Bernard kills it.

Some of the Howard Shore's best music as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8oqZ7SJN_8#t=2m08s

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Some of the Howard Shore's best music as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8oqZ7SJN_8

Exactly. When I went to see Shore conduct the symphony back in 2004, the Pellinor Fields cue was not on the program for the show, but it was in there. Very pleasant surprise when that cue started up. Then my goosebumps started up.

That whole sequence is just so amazing. The build up with Minas Tirith under siege and the gate being broken. The city is overrun and it appears all hope is lost. Then the horn blows...

And that is one scene that is so much better in the EE because now they add Gandalf getting his ass kicked by the Witch King right before it which makes it that much better when Theoden's shows up.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Ride for ruin and the world's ending!

'Ere, the sun rises!

 

[WanderingWind]

Ride for ruin and the world's ending!

'Ere, the sun rises!

"But Sam turned to Bywater, and so came back up the Hill, as day was ending once more. And he went on, and there was yellow light, and fire within; and the evening meal was ready, and he was expected. And Rose drew him in, and set him in his chair, and put little Elanor upon his lap. He drew a deep breath. "Well, I'm back," he said."

 

[elrechazado]

Ride for ruin and the world's ending!

'Ere, the sun rises!

Also awesome how they take the "death, death" chant that in the books comes after theoden's death and eomer and his dudes are pissed and cutting fools down, and at least keep it in the movie by having them scream it before/during their charge.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Ride for ruin and the world's ending!

'Ere, the sun rises!

Follow by him screaming "Death!" The way he gave the speech and the screaming, Theoden wanted blood. Badly.

And I love when the charge starts and Theoden just pulls out ahead of everyone, and no one could match him. He would not be overtaken. That passage from the book was just so badass.

And in the film, I just LOVE how psycho Theoden is during the battle. Just him screaming "Bring it down! Bring it down! Bring it down!" in the middle of the field. The man was a damn psycho in that battle. The king he should have been during the battle of Helm's Deep.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

My favourite thing about that part is that the riders look so pissed off and beastly and orcs scared shitless and more humane.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

My favourite thing about that part is that the riders look so pissed off and beastly and orcs scared shitless and more humane.

Oh, yes. And the lead up as they charge across the field and you think the Rohirrim don't stand a chance. Archers taking out riders left and right. You think "The Rohirrim are totally fucked. But at least they are going down like champs!" Then you see the look of fear in the Orc's eyes and you finally see how massive the charge truly is. Then your thoughts become "The Orc's are totally fucked." Then they get flattened like grass under the charge. I laugh so hard during that part every time I watch the film. It is so relieving to see the bad guys get just completely destroyed for once.

 

[strafer]

The three leading ladies are pretty easy on the eyes.

Liv Tyler, Cate Blanchett and Miranda Otto.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

The three leading ladies are pretty easy on the eyes.

Liv Tyler, Cate Blanchett and Miranda Otto.

Agreed. Cate>Miranda>Liv. But with Miranda it is also the character. But Cate is truly a goddess.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

The three leading ladies are pretty easy on the eyes.

Liv Tyler, Cate Blanchett and Miranda Otto.

I like Liv, but Blanchett and Otto do nothing for me. They just look too old.

Also, Silmarillion is pretty much unfilmable. If they ever were to adapt it, it would have to be as a mini-series for TV. A movie version of Silmarillion would be a complete disaster.

 

[Sibylus]

The Silmarillion would be a nightmare to adapt, but I think it could be feasible if the project emphasized family lines as protagonists of sorts. There are so many people who figure in these tales that it can be difficult to keep track of everything, but the book is very clear about how the families developed and changed. The audience would come to know Feanor's sons by their relationship with their father, and so it would go all down the line. Even if few people are able to keep track of the names, the strongly-explored family lines would readily ground them into the world and its doings.

 

[gollumsluvslave]

There could never be a 'Silmarillion' movie, too many stories, too much time, too many actors.

It would never come to pass, and if it did the result would be too awful to imagine!

However, what might be feasible would be an HBO Rome-style serial, but even that would have to focus on a single story thread within the Quenta Silmarillion proper, and it would still be a nightmare to adapt.

I think easiest one would be The Children of Hurin, as it is more self-contained (Beren & Luthien would have to provide the whole backstory to the Silmarils, Feanor, the Two Trees etc)

Still a herculean undertaking.

Of course, someone might be foolhardy enough to try the whole thing in a serial, but the budget would not be enough to do the necessary justice to the FX shots; and the Silmarillion DWARFS anything in LOTR, I just can't see it in the next 20 years.

It's all a moot point until the Tolkien Estate gives up the rights to the Silmarillion, and that won't happen while Christopher Tolkien is alive.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

There could never be a 'Silmarillion' movie, too many stories, too much time, too many actors.

It would never come to pass, and if it did the result would be too awful to imagine!

However, what might be feasible would be an HBO Rome-style serial, but even that would have to focus on a single story thread within the Quenta Silmarillion proper, and it would still be a nightmare to adapt.

I think easiest one would be The Children of Hurin, as it is more self-contained (Beren & Luthien would have to provide the whole backstory to the Silmarils, Feanor, the Two Trees etc)

Still a herculean undertaking.

Of course, someone might be foolhardy enough to try the whole thing in a serial, but the budget would not be enough to do the necessary justice to the FX shots; and the Silmarillion DWARFS anything in LOTR, I just can't see it in the next 20 years.

It's all a moot point until the Tolkien Estate gives up the rights to the Silmarillion, and that won't happen while Christopher Tolkien is alive.

The Quenta Silmarillion as a whole may well be off the agenda, but The Children Of Hurin as a self contained narrative would certainly be possible as big screen adaptation, the back story could be filled in via a prologue a la Fellowship of the Ring. It may be a bit dark for some people though, as there's no happy ending for Hurin's kin.

Christopher may well be extremely protective of the The Silmarillion, but his children have shown to be more willing.

 

[Branduil]

The Quenta Silmarillion as a whole may well be off the agenda, but The Children Of Hurin as a self contained narrative would certainly be possible as big screen adaptation, the back story could be filled in via a prologue a la Fellowship of the Ring. It may be a bit dark for some people though, as there's no happy ending for Hurin's kin.

Yeah, it would probably be hard to sell the studios on a film ending in

Spoiler

accidental incest and murder.

 

[gollumsluvslave]

The Quenta Silmarillion as a whole may well be off the agenda, but The Children Of Hurin as a self contained narrative would certainly be possible as big screen adaptation, the back story could be filled in via a prologue a la Fellowship of the Ring. It may be a bit dark for some people though, as there's no happy ending for Hurin's kin.

Christopher may well be extremely protective of the The Silmarillion, but his children have shown to be more willing.

Agreed, and personally speaking, I've always thought that the Children of Hurin brought to the silver screen with the right cast and the right director could be something astonishing; but then I'm a sucker for downer endings.

Whilst there would be Glaurung and the Battle of Unnumbered Tears, I would still see it as primarily a somber, bleak character driven story, and would need a director like a Fincher or my personal choice Alfonso Cuaron (who would be perfect IMO) to keep the focus.

I get chills just thinking of the Beleg / Turin scene if handled properly, there would be so many others!

One can dream!

 

[gollumsluvslave]

Yeah, it would probably be hard to sell the studios on a film ending in accidental incest and murder.

It depends, you could view it as Oscar-bait in some ways as well, especially from an acting point of view.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

The fall of Gondolin would be ridiculously epic, but it would need the budget of a small country to work properly.

 

[Biggzy]

Damn ten years, my how time flies.

I can still remember when it came out and my younger brother was banging on about it because his teacher introduced him to the Hobbit a year previously. I personally never heard of the book until that time and had no interest in going to see it. He tried to go with my sister to see it, but unfortunately he couldn't get in because they were too young. So he begged me to take him to see it because I was old enough - I agreed and I sat in that theatre for 3 hours with my jaw hanging and came out of it hooked.

Also a couple of days ago I finished watching the Lotr trilogy on Blu-ray. Suffice to say the films are still a treat to watch, but the thing that struck me afterwards is how breathtakingly beautiful the soundtrack is. Howard Shore couldn't have made a better soundtrack even if he wanted to.

 

[apana]

The Mines of Moria scenes are incredible, they just flow beautifully. I think the special effects people even had to invent some new techonology to film it.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Fellowship is one of my favourites, i grew up watching repeats of jason and the argonauts year after year and i finally got an adventure epic for my own era.

 

[Stinkles]

Yeah, there are a lot of characters and plots to choose from. But the material is there and there are plenty of opportunities for films based on it. If the Hobbit makes bank, there is no way they don't look at an adaption. I'd totally be for a mini-series and the prescendent is there for that as well. Obviously, we can't see the future, but I just don't see them leaving the potential on the table.

Now you're talking. Then you can have evolving protagonists.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Favourite scene throughout all 3 movies is from Return of the King.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oE13VYH84Ok#t=115s

Watching them all at the cinema without any prior knowledge was magnificent.

I remember thinking "oh shit oh shit oh shit" when they appeared. My god that horn sent the biggest chill down my spine.

 

[apana]

Some of the Howard Shore's best music as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8oqZ7SJN_8#t=2m08s

I really like The Mirror of Galadriel track:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh9IT6wJw3g

Starts off full of hope and reflection but then gets a littly mystical and moody.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

This all nighter at BFI IMAX in London is very tempting, I'll be the walking dead at work though.

http://www.bfi.org.uk/whatson/bfi_imax/coming_soon/now_booking/lord_of_the_rings_allnighter_35mm_12a

 

[planar1280]

I remember watching this in 1999/2000:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuUEqTKn5Ho

in the theatres. from this moment I was hooked on these movies forever

 

[DrForester]

I remember watching this in 1999/2000:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuUEqTKn5Ho

in the theatres. from this moment I was hooked on these movies forever

Maybe it just densest hold up well, but that trailer is awful....

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

I loved this scene so much that I almost tried to make a high res screencap in black and white and turn it into a poster.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

I planned on watching a film a day this weekend and finish the trilogy on Sunday. But I just wound up doing both Fellowship and Two Towers EE today. Tomorrow is ROTK. I will do a marathon session one day, but I dont want to have black bars on my plasma for 12 hours straight.

Perhaps if I had started earlier in the day I would have done it. Now I have to wait until my wife wakes up tomorrow to do ROTK EE, so it will be a late night. Now if I could only convince her to sit down for an entire commentary track or four.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Oh, and the dumbest thing of all PJ did: not using that absolutely brilliant take of Aragorn's speech at Pelennor from the trailer. Viggo absolutely killed that. Instead, in the film, we got perhaps the worst take Viggo ever produced, which totally kills the mood that scene should have had.

Thankfully they used the most awesome Bernard Hill take of his Theoden speech at Pelennor to offset that.

Where can I see that?

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Where can I see that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQPkYql4lAE#t=1m40s

 

[Escape Goat]

I rented ROTK on blu ray just to test it on my new tv. It wasn't as bad as I remember though I definitely feel its the least enjoyable of the 3. It also allowed me to view the SFX in closer detail and they really do stick out when you're looking for them. If you take the shots in as a whole it works but if you focus on one thing the illusion falls apart.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Another instance of a different take been used in the final cut of the film.

The 'you cannot wield it, none of us can' dialogue in the trailer is said with so much more verve than the one in the film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPT6B9X-Wsg#t=1m09s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqbcaxJxeBo&feature=related#t=2m24s