The Flash |OT| Gotta Go Fast - Tuesdays 8/7c

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Just watched the latest episode!
Intense to say the least. Still pondering all that happened but I have some thoughts.

Can we all agree with the theory that Barry chases the Reverse Flash into the past and that explains the 2 electric bolts in the house, and that Flash-Barry is the one that takes Kid-Barry outside during the attack?
 
Good breakdown of the "Wells is Reverse Flash" theory I found on another forum. The poster refers Yellow Suit as Professor Zoom but I think Reverse Flash fits better since that's what the character hinted at in the episode. One discrepancy is that we apparently see Wells heal quickly while he is looking at his suit at the end, but that might just be an editing/continuity error.

Handsome men don't lose fights said:
Wells is definitely Professor Zoom. The proof is in the costume itself: Professor Zoom originally only had speed when he wore his uniform. Today, we saw Wells apparently powering up his suit with that Tachyon thingy (demonstrating that this version of the character doesn't possess powers himself).

Q: But wait! Professor Zoom and Harrison were in the same room at the same time! In fact, Wells caught a beating from that yellow suited fiend! How can that be?!

A: Easy. Tachyons are theoretical particles that move faster than light. They've been a staple of time travel in fiction for decades. Zoom was Wells from a set point in the future, using the suit that had already been powered up by the Tachyon device: He traveled backwards in time in order to steal the device for his younger self, (roughing him up in the process to help with his cover) thus creating a closed loop that would ensure his own success.

Q: What was the crisis in 2024 that caused Barry to disappear?

A: Barry went back in time to prevent the murder of his mother. If Barry succeeded, then Wells/Zoom would cease to exist, because why would Barry become a forensic Scientist obsessed with solving crimes (and putting himself in the path of that lightning bolt) if he had a happier childhood? No gloomy scientist = No Flash = No Professor Zoom, so 'Wells' went back in time to prevent Barry from Erasing everything. He succeeded, (possibly killing the future Flash in the process) but at the price of becoming stranded in the past.

Q: Why was Wells trapped?

A: Wells doesn't have any powers of his own. His suit is powered by Tachyon energy. After traveling to the past to kill Mrs. Allen, and fighting the Flash, he ran out of energy and was reduced to waiting a couple decades for the era to produce tachyon technology that he could acquire.

Now that his future self has acquired it for him, his suit is powering up right now, which explains why we won't see the Reverse Flash again for a while. Which means we should expect to see an episode told exclusively from Harrison's perspective. (The suit finishes powering up, he runs into the past, he threatens Iris to scare Joe, beats up Barry for old time's sake, then steals the Tachyon Machine to give to his younger self, thus setting up the loop.)

Q: What does this have to do with Eddie?

A: Ancestry. Wells is Eddie's great-to-the-power-of-X-grandson.
Click to expand...

So there are a bunch of time periods here. This is my understanding of the timeline:

Decades before present day (let's just say 1980)
Reverse Flash is thrown back in time by the Flash after killing Barry's mother in 2000. In order to ensure his future existence he needs to develop the particle accelerator to create the Flash, make sure Barry lives, and obtain a tachyon device to create a powered suit that could travel through time. He takes the name Harrison Wells and begins his work.

2000
Barry's mother is killed by the Reverse Flash. The child Barry doesn't know that he is witnessing RF and his future Flash self fighting each other. The Flash fails to save his mother but throws RF back into 1980. We don't know what happens to the Flash.

2013: 9 months before start of season 1
Wells has become a renowned scientist thanks to his advanced knowledge (he is from the far future after all) and has built a particle accelerator. He rigs the accelerator to fail, and this "accident" results in Barry being struck by lightning and becoming The Flash, as well as the creation of metahumans.

2014: Start of season 1
Barry wakes up from his coma and meets Wells, Cisco and Caitlin, finds out he has superpowers and begins his journey to becoming The Flash.

2014: Midseason finale
Reverse Flash from 2015 appears, fighting Barry in the stadium and looking for the tachyon device. 2014 Wells, knowing that he must let the RF acquire it (but not knowing that his future self will beat him up), acquires the tachyon device from Mercury using his contacts in the police (Joe and Barry) and sabotages Cisco's containment field. His near future self gives him the device at the end of the episode which he uses to power up the suit in his secret chamber.

2015: The near future (possibly second half of season 1)
Wells uses his tachyon-powered suit to go back to 2014 and steal the tachyon device. He beats up his near-past self in order to not arouse suspicion that he is the Reverse Flash, and does not kill Eddie because he knows Eddie is his ancestor. He escapes with the device which he gives to midseason-finale Wells.

2024
The Flash, now a famous superhero and having gained the ability to travel through time, goes back to 2000 to try to prevent the murder of his mother. He is unsuccessful and fails to return to 2024 - hence the "Flash Missing - Vanishes in Crisis" headline in the newspaper.

The far future (let's just say 2200)
A man descended from Eddie Thawne creates a tachyon powered supersuit. Wanting to destroy the Flash (I don't know how The Flash originally got to 2200), he goes back in time to 2000 to kill Barry Allen's mother.
 
Skux said:
Good breakdown of the "Wells is Reverse Flash" theory I found on another forum. The poster refers Yellow Suit as Professor Zoom but I think Reverse Flash fits better since that's what the character hinted at in the episode. One discrepancy is that we apparently see Wells heal quickly while he is looking at his suit at the end, but that might just be an editing/continuity error.



So there are a bunch of time periods here. This is my understanding of the timeline:

Decades before present day (let's just say 1980)
Reverse Flash is thrown back in time by the Flash after killing Barry's mother in 2000. In order to ensure his future existence he needs to develop the particle accelerator to create the Flash, make sure Barry lives, and obtain a tachyon device to create a powered suit that could travel through time. He takes the name Harrison Wells and begins his work.

2000
Barry's mother is killed by the Reverse Flash. The child Barry doesn't know that he is witnessing RF and his future Flash self fighting each other. The Flash fails to save his mother but throws RF back into 1980. We don't know what happens to the Flash.

2014: Start of season 1
Wells has become a renowned scientist thanks to his advanced knowledge (he is from the far future after all) and has built a particle accelerator. He rigs the accelerator to fail, and this "accident" results in Barry being struck by lightning and becoming The Flash, as well as the creation of metahumans.

2014: Midseason finale
Reverse Flash from 2015 appears, fighting Barry in the stadium and looking for the tachyon device. 2014 Wells, knowing that he must let the RF acquire it (but not knowing that his future self will beat him up), acquires the tachyon device from Mercury using his contacts in the police (Joe and Barry) and sabotages Cisco's containment field. His near future self gives him the device at the end of the episode which he uses to power up the suit in his secret chamber.

2015: The near future (possibly second half of season 1)
Wells uses his tachyon-powered suit to go back to 2014 and steal the tachyon device. He beats up his near-past self in order to not arouse suspicion that he is the Reverse Flash, and does not kill Eddie because he knows he is his ancestor. He escapes with the device which he gives to Wells.

2024
The Flash, now a famous superhero and having gained the ability to travel through time, goes back to 2000 to try to prevent the murder of his mother - he is unsuccessful and fails to return to 2024 - hence the "Flash Missing - Vanishes in Crisis" headline in the newspaper.

The far future (let's just say 2200)
A man descended from Eddie Thawne creates a tachyon powered supersuit. Wanting to destroy the Flash (I don't know how The Flash originally got to 2200), he goes back in time to 2000 to kill Barry Allen's mother.
Click to expand...

Not bad... *Thumbs Up*
 
Generally a fine theory, but I don't really think that the Flash vanishing in that headline is due to going back in time and trying to save his mother.

The two newspapers we've seen have suggested that he vanishes ending the "Red Skies Crisis" since the one where he is missing said "Red Skies Vanish" and the one from the future where he doesn't have powers said "Red Skies Threaten" (I can't find a picture of that and also in that episode there was an editing error where the third time it showed the paper it said "Red Skies Vanish" again).
 
hPwoma4.jpg
 
Loving all the theories and excitement about that last episode. As a longtime fan of the Flash franchise, it is awesome to see Barry getting the love.
 
Tamanon said:
Shot from a future episode they're filming now. Firestorm spoilers

http://instagram.com/p/we6W39nsv5/

That looks like a suit!
Click to expand...

Oh fuck, I'm more hyped about seeing this than Flash/Reverse Flash Round 3.

Napoleonthechimp said:
Ronnie doesn't remember who he is but yet he has the capacity to give himself a superhero code name.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was wondering about that. I assumed when he was like "FIRESTORM", he wasn't giving himself a name, but describing the event that "killed" him and Stein, a literal firestorm in the particle accelerator. Like, he's so fucked up mentally, that's one of the few things he remembers coherently.
 
I've tried to suggest this theory before but I didn't do a great job of it. So I'll give it another try.

First, I want to offer up one really important thing that most people are overlooking when they think the Reverse-Flash we saw tonight is Wells: their physical builds are nothing alike - RF's built way more muscularly than Wells is, more similar to Eddie Thawne. Now enough of that, on to my theory:

Harrison Wells is Barry Allen from a future alternate timeline.

First, Wells and Barry look very similar. Whoever posted the meme above makes it very clear: T. Cavanuagh could very easily be playing an older version of Grant Gustin, with his dark hair and thin build.

Second, Wells is Barry in a world where his mother never died. Henry Allen's speech at the prison made it clear (if it wasn't obvious already) that the only reason Barry became a CSI was because of his mother's death. In alternate timeline (where the death never occurred), Barry grew up to be a successful physicist.

Third, the Flash in the future newspaper that "Wells" looks at is Barry at the same age he is now - meaning, the Flash taking part in the Crisis is definitely not native to whatever future Wells is from. How could he be the same age? The technology we see Wells using indicates he is from far in the future, not just a few years ahead, therefore in the newspaper clip Barry should be MUCH older (say, about Wells' age).

Fourth, we're entertaining the idea that alternate timelines exist. Therefore, Wells can't "change the future" - he can only create a new alternate one. However, he CAN come back in time and turn himself into the Flash (by creating the particle accelerator), and then send the Flash (himself) forward into Wells' own alternate timeline to stop the crisis. We already know this happens, since the Flash we see in Wells' future is the same age (relatively) as Barry is currently.

Fifth, the cause of the crisis is the creation of Zoom (not Reverse-Flash because no Flash even exists) in Wells' future. Wells goes back to the past to turn himself, Barry, into a hero to combat Reverse-Flash and stop the crisis. Zoom follows him into the past, and tries to prevent Wells from raising Barry into a hero by killing him. However, Barry from our CURRENT time line jumps back to stop his mother from being killed - but really finds out that Zoom is trying to kill child-Barry. They battle, and Barry's mom takes the knife for Barry. Zoom runs out of "batteries" so he can't finish the job. Wells has to watch his mother die as a result of his own actions, and explains why he's so somber. He becomes obsessed with creating something to beat Zoom, so he decides he'll turn his younger self into the Flash.

Sixth, Zoom recognizes and wants to fight Wells - even trying to perhaps kill him. I think this is legitimate, not just a ruse.

Seventh, why does Wells have the RF suit in the end? Simple. It's a duplicate - he made Zoom's suit in the first place, why wouldn't he be able to recreate it? The suit HE has is unpowered, until he adds the techyon mcguffin.

Eighth, now that he has the Zoom suit completed that Zoom is wearing, he can dress up like Zoom and fight to train Barry until the REAL Zoom comes back.

Ninth, I'm too tired to be writing this now and there's no way the show runners are this crazy. It's probably just Eddie all along.
 
CuckFupertino said:
Harrison Wells is Barry Allen from a future alternate timeline.
Click to expand...
Eh, no.

  1. Death of Nora Allen - Reverse Flash vs. Future Flash
  2. Harrison Wells creates The Flash
  3. Wells has access to information about the future which changes based on present action
  4. Joe suspects Wells but Wells dispels suspicion
  5. Reverse Flash threatens Joe West and steals evidence from 1
  6. Reverse Flash encounters Barry and indicates they have a past
  7. Wells traps Reverse Flash
  8. Reverse Flash beats up Wells
  9. Reverse Flash speaks to Joe referring to 5
  10. Reverse Flash spares Eddie inexplicably
  11. Reverse Flash steals tachyon generator
  12. Wells has Reverse Flash's suit
  13. Wells has a tachyon generator (presumed from 11)
  14. Wells can alter his voice like Reverse Flash and heal fast
So, we know Wells has powers. Wells has access to future information and technology... information reliable enough to place cameras to observe Barry getting struck by lightning.

Your explanation doesn't cover Wells have powers (besides time travel) and doesn't cover the accuracy of his camera placement and timing (this loop or line would have had to have happened already, but your theory suggests this is his first rodeo in radically different timeline).

It is strongly implied that Reverse Flash and Wells are in collusion, primarily because of the overlap in voices, the common access to the suit, and the access to a tachyon generator... these things need not be casually linked (at least not such that they're immediately delivered to Wells) but it's frankly the most elegant communication of events. It's possible that some of the audience can follow you on a journey where a whole elaborate sequence of events are interjected between Reverse Flash stealing the generator and Wells having it... but it's legions more elegant if Reverse Flash is Wells or if Reverse Flash gave it to Wells.

It is also strongly implied that for the time being, Reverse Flash is moving through time linearly, at least from the time that he threatens Joe to the time that he refers back to that event. Again, maybe you can have clumsy exposition (this is not addressing your theory but other theories out there) where Wells is feeding Reverse Flash lines to use as he goes backwards in time like River Song (Dr. Who reference), but can your CW audience follow you?

However, it also implied that he has a common history with Barry that goes beyond the encounters experienced by Barry thus far.

Lastly, it is strongly implied that Flash is the second speedster at the time of Nora Allen's death.

Good luck to the theorists reconciling it all but I don't think it's nearly complex as some are making it out to be so long as you reconcile one or two "impossibilities".

2mUione.jpg
Click to expand...
 
I don't know much about the Flash, infinite crisis or the Flashpoint paradox or whatever it was but the whole post related to the quote below sounds pretty good.

Skux said:
The far future (let's just say 2200)
A man descended from Eddie Thawne creates a tachyon powered supersuit. Wanting to destroy the Flash (I don't know how The Flash originally got to 2200), he goes back in time to 2000 to kill Barry Allen's mother.
Click to expand...

maybe when he threw RF back to 1980, he somehow slipped and flung himself forward to the year 2200? and maybe he injured himself to the point where he can no longer run quite fast enough to travel back in time?
 
I still think Barry would have still gone the same path that he chose just without the baggage and obsession and still would've been struck by lightning (non-particle accelerated/Speed Force'd lightning) and become the Flash because... Destiny and basically in line with why and how things changed in the comics with Barry's story. Also could give them room to de-power Barry and soft reboot the show if ever needed... Or use it if they decide to do some TV-fied, more self contained version of the Flashpoint story.

Wells created this timeline's Flash with the ideas of how he thought he could make Barry better, personal tragedy (or punishment/revenge which ever way you want to go with it), gaining access or greater access to the Speed Force years before he originally did and a support team behind him.

openrob said:
Just watched the latest episode!
Intense to say the least. Still pondering all that happened but I have some thoughts.

Can we all agree with the theory that Barry chases the Reverse Flash into the past and that explains the 2 electric bolts in the house, and that Flash-Barry is the one that takes Kid-Barry outside during the attack?
Click to expand...

I think been the idea all had since the pilot maybe before since I think a lot of us knew where they'd be taking inspiration from.
 
Skux said:
The far future (let's just say 2200)
A man descended from Eddie Thawne creates a tachyon powered supersuit. Wanting to destroy the Flash (I don't know how The Flash originally got to 2200), he goes back in time to 2000 to kill Barry Allen's mother.
Click to expand...

The comic origin has Eobarde Thawn as curator of the Flash museum in the 25th century, and an obsessed fanboy. He has plastic surgery to look like Barry and replicates his powers, but when he travels back in time he misses his mark, arriving after Barry's death, and learns that he becomes Flash's nemesis rather than his partner, and goes insane.

This explains the resemblance, as well as why wells flips between being Barry's friend/mentor and enemy so easily.
 
Skux said:
2013: 9 months before start of season 1
Wells has become a renowned scientist thanks to his advanced knowledge (he is from the far future after all) and has built a particle accelerator. He rigs the accelerator to fail, and this "accident" results in Barry being struck by lightning and becoming The Flash, as well as the creation of metahumans.
Click to expand...

I always assumed Barry being struck by lighting / becoming the flash wasn't related to the accelerator accident. Just that Wells knew the time Barry was struck so he created the accident at the same time
 
My wife and I saw the episode last night and while there's not much evidence for it (if any), she threw out the idea that Barry's father is actually the Flash in the past. He's not visible in the scenes with Barry's mother in the living room (where is he? actual question we have) and it would also explain why he moved Barry into the street. Basically he's like the Jay Garrick of this universe or something.

Plus it would also be a bigger reason to cast John Wesley Shipp beyond "hey cool!", especially if Amanda Pays and Mark Hamill are both coming back as the same characters as they played before. Why them two coming back as the same people but not Shipp?

Again, total theory, based on nothing but fun speculation, but it was too cool not to share.
 
TheSoed said:
My wife and I saw the episode last night and while there's not much evidence for it (if any), she threw out the idea that Barry's father is actually the Flash in the past. He's not visible in the scenes with Barry's mother in the living room (where is he? actual question we have) and it would also explain why he moved Barry into the street. Basically he's like the Jay Garrick of this universe or something.

Plus it would also be a bigger reason to cast John Wesley Shipp beyond "hey cool!", especially if Amanda Pays and Mark Hamill are both coming back as the same characters as they played before. Why them two coming back as the same people but not Shipp?

Again, total theory, based on nothing but fun speculation, but it was too cool not to share.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've entertained that notion too, but I don't think they'll go there. It feels like it would slightly undermine Barry and his position in the show as kind of being the first (and still the best) metahuman created.

As a fun Flash fact, I will share a stupid joke my friend and I share that I think I started. It's what we call "the triforce of dads" represented by Cop Dad, Science Dad and Dad Dad. Science Dad is obviously the triforce of power. Cop Dad is Courage. Dad Dad is Wisdom. If the dadforce ever aligns and they all start telling Barry the same thing, Barry should do that thing. Period. It's pretty much always a good idea. Even though Wells is super evil. Doesn't matter.

(By the way, have they seriously not made a Flash fact joke yet? Is that just too Silver Age to matter anymore?)
 
When do we get to finally see
Grodd
? I'm thinking second to last episode to lead into season 2?

spoiler tagged for people who haven't watched yet.
 
bigmase21 said:
When do we get to finally see
Grood
? I'm thinking second to last episode to lead into season 2?

spoiler tagged for people who haven't watched yet.
Click to expand...

I have to say, I'm really worried about that. How the hell will they be able to pull that off without it seeming hokey as fuck? Will they bother to try to avoid being hokey? It seems like people not into the comics will see that as being a "jumping the shark" moment. Seems very, very problematic to me. In addition, even though I love the Flash to bits, I've never gotten
Godd's appeal. Other than being a gorilla, he's just psychic. His motivations are dumb. Gorilla city is so silver age it hurts. It just doesn't seem like a character that would resonate with a mainstream TV show.
 
TheSoed said:
My wife and I saw the episode last night and while there's not much evidence for it (if any), she threw out the idea that Barry's father is actually the Flash in the past. He's not visible in the scenes with Barry's mother in the living room (where is he? actual question we have) and it would also explain why he moved Barry into the street. Basically he's like the Jay Garrick of this universe or something.

Plus it would also be a bigger reason to cast John Wesley Shipp beyond "hey cool!", especially if Amanda Pays and Mark Hamill are both coming back as the same characters as they played before. Why them two coming back as the same people but not Shipp?

Again, total theory, based on nothing but fun speculation, but it was too cool not to share.
Click to expand...

But Barry's dad is visible in those scenes because he grabs Barry and tells him to run.
 
DaveH said:
Thanks for that heads up:


I'm not sure that's the standard though. Most exonerations are based on irrefutable DNA, true, but there have also been post-conviction relief based on faulty forensics, police practices, etc. Eyewitness testimony of two active police officers would be given decent weight compared to the lack of investigation the first time around. They have to explain the Task Force getting slaughtered somehow and their word is good enough for that.
Click to expand...

What yellow blur?
 
DaveH said:
Eh, no.

  1. Death of Nora Allen - Reverse Flash vs. Future Flash
  2. Harrison Wells creates The Flash
  3. Wells has access to information about the future which changes based on present action
  4. Joe suspects Wells but Wells dispels suspicion
  5. Reverse Flash threatens Joe West and steals evidence from 1
  6. Reverse Flash encounters Barry and indicates they have a past
  7. Wells traps Reverse Flash
  8. Reverse Flash beats up Wells
  9. Reverse Flash speaks to Joe referring to 5
  10. Reverse Flash spares Eddie inexplicably
  11. Reverse Flash steals tachyon generator
  12. Wells has Reverse Flash's suit
  13. Wells has a tachyon generator (presumed from 11)
  14. Wells can alter his voice like Reverse Flash and heal fast
So, we know Wells has powers. Wells has access to future information and technology... information reliable enough to place cameras to observe Barry getting struck by lightning.

Your explanation doesn't cover Wells have powers (besides time travel) and doesn't cover the accuracy of his camera placement and timing (this loop or line would have had to have happened already, but your theory suggests this is his first rodeo in radically different timeline).

It is strongly implied that Reverse Flash and Wells are in collusion, primarily because of the overlap in voices, the common access to the suit, and the access to a tachyon generator... these things need not be casually linked (at least not such that they're immediately delivered to Wells) but it's frankly the most elegant communication of events. It's possible that some of the audience can follow you on a journey where a whole elaborate sequence of events are interjected between Reverse Flash stealing the generator and Wells having it... but it's legions more elegant if Reverse Flash is Wells or if Reverse Flash gave it to Wells.

It is also strongly implied that for the time being, Reverse Flash is moving through time linearly, at least from the time that he threatens Joe to the time that he refers back to that event. Again, maybe you can have clumsy exposition (this is not addressing your theory but other theories out there) where Wells is feeding Reverse Flash lines to use as he goes backwards in time like River Song (Dr. Who reference), but can your CW audience follow you?

However, it also implied that he has a common history with Barry that goes beyond the encounters experienced by Barry thus far.

Lastly, it is strongly implied that Flash is the second speedster at the time of Nora Allen's death.

Good luck to the theorists reconciling it all but I don't think it's nearly complex as some are making it out to be so long as you reconcile one or two "impossibilities".
Click to expand...

So it looks like I was right about Wells.
 
My theory:.

- RF and Flash are enemies in the future, the timeline played out exactly how it has already in the show.
- Flash travels back in time and saves his mother.
- This creates a timeline with no Flash.
- RF (immune to changes due to Tachyon suit) robbed of his chance to defeat Flash travels back in time to stop Flash saving his mother, succeeds.
- Stuck in the past, RF changes identity to Wells and attempts to restore the timeline as we are seeing it in the show.
- At some point into the future, Wells gives the suit to his younger self though doesn't say who he is, young RF travel back in time for the events of the mid season finale and the threat against Iris, young RF gives Wells the Tachyon thing, closing that loop.

Wells intention is to restore timeline then change it so can defeat Flash himself. Will never work though as this is one big loop that will forever repeat.

RF may be Eddie who grown to hate Barry over Iris leaving him for Barry, or maybe Barry chose not to save her when could have, for reasons. This is the crap I expect from TV nowdays.


Never much been a fan of DC heroes outside of some mainstream efforts, but Flash and Arrow are great comic book TV. Really shows how bad Agents of Shield is.
 
Grodd was cool on JLU. Definitely want to see him here. He's much less silly than a talking racoon and people don't have a problem with Rocket.
 
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