SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
The 3rd season curse is kicking off early in this show i see.
Seriously, this episode was really badly written.
Seriously, this episode was really badly written.
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The Flash S2 |OT2| Jays of Future Past - Tuesdays 8/7c
- Thread starter TheOddOne
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Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Can someone explain to me how there were two Jays again? Zoom's explanation didn't make sense to me.
He went back in time and convinced himself to kill himself LOL WAT
Okay that part was reeeeeeeeeeeal dumb.
Jay was Zoom from an earlier timeline that he took that was seemingly immune to paradoxes.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Zoom traveled back in time, met his younger self and killed him as part of his master plan.
Yeah, it does not make sense.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Whoever was responsible for this episode should not be allowed to make any more.
This universe has set rules for time travel. Its a closed loop like Back to the Future. When the past is changed it affects the future, it doesn't create an alternate timeline.
This universe has set rules for time travel. Its a closed loop like Back to the Future. When the past is changed it affects the future, it doesn't create an alternate timeline.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I was with it for a little bit. Barry asking Cisco to open the breach without any sort of plan is dumb, so the episode started off on a bad foot. As soon as Caitlin mentions Hunter Zoloman and Wells starts talking about him, they lost me. So Wells had a picture of Zoom unmasked all this time? He seems to be aware of the fact that his particle explosion on Earth 2 made Zoloman into Zoom. Ummm...okay? So you couldn't have mentioned that before? It's lazy writing. This entire season they built Zoom up as a monster. Like he was barely human, even Wells acted like that. But he's just like Barry. He is a man, who can now do extraordinary things. If Wells was helping them all this time, he never got the idea to mention that he knows who Zoom is? It makes zero sense.
And the reason that he doesn't recognize Jay is Hunter Zoloman is a beard and long hair? They could have at least said some bullshit like Hunter scarred up his own face before he was arrested. Then the particle accelerator gives him advanced healing, so he would have a "normal" face from that point on. That way you could have a police photo of Hunter looking all messed up, but then nobody would really know what his newly healed face looks like and he could pretend to be Jay AND then wear the mask to be Zoom.
I dislike nitpicking stuff to death. The time travel "rules" for instance is whatever. The writers are going to do what they want in regards to that. There is no consistency or logic to time travel in The Flash or Legends of Tomorrow and I'm fine with that. They contradict themselves, but I can overlook that if it means the story ends up the better for it. This Zoom story reeks of something that was cobbled together to make sense of what was done previously. Just look at any show that cared more about reveals and mystery and you'll see bullshit explanations and handwaving so the plot doesn't collapse on itself.
The show is dumb fun, that's why I watch it. But that doesn't mean it gets to be lazy like this. Zoom kidnaps Wally. Zoom kidnaps Caitlin. Zoom kidnaps Barry. Zoom kidnaps Jesse. Zoom kidnaps The Man in the Iron Mask. The only person that Zoom killed is himself? Has he killed anyone on Earth 1? What exactly is his threat? He doesn't do anything except kidnap people and put them in cages.
Well to be fair, Zoom and his time remnant aren't from this universe.
How the fuck would you convince your past self to agree to dying? HOW WOULD YOU NOT BE ERASED FROM EXISTENCE.
This Speed Force Ain't Gotta Explain Shit malarkey has gone out of control with the time remnant stuff.
Also if Zoom can time travel then why the fuck didn't he go back to save his mother? Or do some damage in the past? WHO WROTE THIS SHIT?
Like, even a bad episode is still enjoyable. Just like sex, guys. Just like sex.
This Speed Force Ain't Gotta Explain Shit malarkey has gone out of control with the time remnant stuff.
Also if Zoom can time travel then why the fuck didn't he go back to save his mother? Or do some damage in the past? WHO WROTE THIS SHIT?
Like, even a bad episode is still enjoyable. Just like sex, guys. Just like sex.
I'm sure the identity of the man is going to be some big reveal. Probably an episode cliff hanger.
Teddy Sears said he didn't find out until filming the final episode, although that may not be reflected in the show.
I bet it's Zoom from the future who tried to come back to undo his own evil and got caught. Or something so dumb oh god I can't.
Since he knows the tap code then he's probably either Zoom himself or his father (which wouldn't make any sense).
They just could have left him on E2 to die.
Barry needs to think about those siege tactics.
I was enjoying it too, but the last 10 or so minutes didn't make any sense.
lol
Wells didn't know Zooms identity. He only knew of Hunter being a serial killer and getting shock therapy. Once Wells was told that earth 1 Hunter looked like Jay, he puts it together that the particle explosion turned earth 2 Hunter into Zoom.
Frank the Great
Banned
Such a stupid episode. I'm really disappointed with the Zoom/Jay explanation and the plot holes. When a storyline depends on all your characters being stupid, you goofed.
I don't care about faithfulness to the comics, I just thought it made zero sense and was a lazy, thoughtless way to repeat the S1 trope where an assumed ally is secretly the big bad.
I wonder if next season a friendly psychic gorilla will join the team in the first few episodes.
I don't care about faithfulness to the comics, I just thought it made zero sense and was a lazy, thoughtless way to repeat the S1 trope where an assumed ally is secretly the big bad.
I wonder if next season a friendly psychic gorilla will join the team in the first few episodes.
If Zoom was telling the truth, that should have been the time remnant, but Zoom has his memories because he's from the past even though technically his timeline diverges because he's now dead and... yeah.
Who knows on the guy in the park. At this point it sounds like that's E1 Hunter, but for all we know it was Zoom trying to trick(?) Caitlin for whatever reason.
I suspect that we'll get some "shocking" revelations that a lot of what Zoom told the team was total BS, but I'm not sure they can salvage much.
Honestly, I still had a lot of hope for Zoom after the reveal and all that, but this episode just crushed my hopes, simply because most of my problems had to do with season-long structural stuff and less about the episode itself.
Although I still honestly think this is by far my least favorite episode of Flash ever. I spent the entire last 10 minutes just chanting "Stupid, stupid, stupid!" over and over again.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
He gets more goes fast.
How many episodes do you think until Barry gets his speed back? Do you think they'll drag it until the finale?
Gets faster, probably stops dying?
Maybe he can inherit Barry's idiocy as well.
So. So far we have three Hunter Zolomons. One from Earth Two, who is Zoom. A second, also from Earth Two but from the past, who goes by Jay Garrick. And the third one from Earth One, who has done nothing but sit on a bench. Why not use E1 Hunter as Jay Garrick, in stead of the weird time travel Zolomon? Him going bad would actually line up nice with Cisco and Caitlyn worrying about becoming like Killer Frost and ReVerb.
Probably saving him for a future season.
Novel Mike
Member
I really liked the episode up until the end. I don't mind Hunter Zolomon motives or backstory despite it being pretty generic what I minded was the entire last 15 minutes where common sense just left the writing room. It would be one thing if they at least tried to excuse away what they were doing with something like someone bringing up that they don't have to actually give the speed to Zoom once they have Wally and then Barry explains it away saying something like "But what if he kills Wally or someone else if we don't go through with it?" I mean it would still be stupid but at least we'd understand why they actually went through it but since they didn't it just looked like it was a setup and they were tricking them... except they weren't...
So yeah what exactly happened in that writing room?
So yeah what exactly happened in that writing room?
Now it really makes me wonder what happened in the writing room.
So by speed it goes Reverse Flash>>>Zoom>Flash
Someone came in at the end and stole all the writers' CreativeForce.
Piku_Ringo
Banned
"WE'RE NOT SO DIFFERENT, YOU AND I. BOTH OUR DEAD MOM'S NAME WAS NORA." - Zoom.
Missed opportunity not having the script call for that line.
Missed opportunity not having the script call for that line.
They knew where they wanted to end (Barry losing his speed to Zoom), but they couldn't figure out how to successfully get to that point without making their heroes be total idiots.
Honestly, if they really wanted to reinforce Zoom as a threat, they could have kept everything up to Zoom being caught in the leg brace. Then cut to a scene of Zoom in one of the cells. Have your wonderful conversation with Zoom where you get all the information out of him and whatever, have your heroes let down guard. Then have Zoom vibrate through the door (because he's from Earth-2 and vibrates at a different frequency or whatever, so he can do that), and steal Barry's speed using some McGuffin device or whatever, making it clear that the whole thing was planned by Zoom and a trap that the heroes fell into. You can even justify why Zoom waited by him explaining that now that Barry is faster than Zoom, he's ripe for harvest or something.
That takes care of the stupidity of them not immediately locking Zoom up, you get all those conversations taking place in a manner in which the heroes have a reason for relaxing and conversing with Zoom, and then reestablishes Zoom as a threat and having a master plan.
maximum360
Member
I thought the same thing as well.
Tonight's episode was full of face palms. The first time Barry wanted the portal open they weren't even prepared. Completely illogical on many levels.
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