Stallion Dan
Member
To be fair beards do really hide the face.
Also I'm disappointed they're restarting the discount-incest thing.
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The Flash S2 |OT2| Jays of Future Past - Tuesdays 8/7c
- Thread starter TheOddOne
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To be fair beards do really hide the face.
Also I'm disappointed they're restarting the discount-incest thing.
serenewarfare
Banned
The theory of the man in the mask being Jay is contradicted by Caitlin saying earlier in the season that she couldn't find evidence of a man named Jay Garrick ever existing on Earth-1. Unless Zolomon kidnapped and erased him from every database known to man.
We don't need exact matches between universes, Supergirl has no Cisco or Wells.
serenewarfare
Banned
Okay, next issue. Assuming he's only an Earth-2 guy, he'd have to be an entirely new face. So why did Zolomon ever target him or even know he had speed (assuming he was a speedster)? Was he a hero? And if he was, why did no one notice him vanish?
BLOODED_hands
Member
The facial hair and long hair can be used as an excuse for not being able to identify Jay Garrick. But that doesn't excuse the fact that Hunter was all over the news and everybody recognized Hunter. Would they have recognized him without the facial hair? I doubt that.
The portal can also be explained that Zoom traveled so fast he jumped universes like what Barry did earlier in the episode due to how fast he was moving.
The rest are nearly inexcusable. Semi-forced relationship with Iris and Barry. The idiotic choices that lead up to the end of the episode. Barry gaining and then losing his speed just like that. Etc., etc.
I liked it but I also didn't like it. More disappointed instead of the whole execution.
The portal can also be explained that Zoom traveled so fast he jumped universes like what Barry did earlier in the episode due to how fast he was moving.
The rest are nearly inexcusable. Semi-forced relationship with Iris and Barry. The idiotic choices that lead up to the end of the episode. Barry gaining and then losing his speed just like that. Etc., etc.
I liked it but I also didn't like it. More disappointed instead of the whole execution.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Wait, is there a reason why we're assuming that Cisco didn't leave the portal open? Does he even have the ability to close them once fully opened?
Yeah that's kind of dumb. Especially if "all serial killers on Earth-2 are so so so rare they're super high-profile and we have pictures of them and everything and our technology is so advanced." I mean even in Dexter S8 they aged a baby photo to look like what an adult might look like
I'm being facetious here but we can already sort of do shit like that and I really doubt no one would scrutinize the shit out of a man with literal superpowers who exposes his face for all to see.
Also honestly they didn't say Hunter Zolomon's father was dead so man in the mask might as well be his father. Also a war vet so he probably knows that tap code, etc. That's my educated guess. It's better than it's Earth N+1's Jay Garrick, who is the real Jay Garrick.
to be fair it was likely just past flashes' speed that was stolen. current flash will show up and save the day.
basis... when barry was testing out his new speed he opened a portal and then popped out a second portal.
he most likely did a time echo that zoom was talking about and is gonna use it to mess with zoom and the audience because why not
You should probably watch that Supergirl crossover episode...to be fair it was likely just past flashes' speed that was stolen. current flash will show up and save the day.
basis... when barry was testing out his new speed he opened a portal and then popped out a second portal.
he most likely did a time echo that zoom was talking about and is gonna use it to mess with zoom and the audience because why not
BLOODED_hands
Member
Yea that's what confused me too. Was Crisco able to fully close any breaches he's made in such a short time? Possible. Was Zoom able to open up portals like Barry Allen? Possible.
Also, I swear to the New Gods zulux21 if they go that route..... heads will possibly roll. Hey if Zoom did this then I, Buried Alien, can do it too and trick Zoom! Huzzah, gottem.
Permanently A
Junior Member
Masked Man is real Jay Garrick has to be it, right?
Piku_Ringo
Banned
Except Zoom is no normal person holding some hostage. They already know well and good how capable he is, and trying anything like that would have likely gotten someone killed.
Besides, it sets up for a deeper conflict going into the end of the season. Zoom with insane amounts of Speed and Barry without, having to battle back in some uncapable way, until they figure out how to get his Speed Force back.
It all made perfect sense.
Not like the alternative made for good television.
brotkasten
Member
Well, this episode of The Flash certainly had the Flash in it. That's probably the best thing could say.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Man, Teddy Sears botched it all. Had a more competent actor been in the role, I think the reveal and how things went down would have worked much better...
This is what I always assumed. The breach is open, but you can only see it when someone goes through, just like always.
I likely should, which would mean I would need to catch up on supergirl as I am through ep 2 or so
After the backlash, especially from Waid, they didn't have much choice.
Still can't believe they just had him tell them that he convinced his past self to die. Do the writers not understand time travel? I accepted the time remnant thing with Eobard because of the singularity being closed but this? I can't. I just can't.
Basically there's no point in Barry stopping Eobard from killing Little Barry-kun because future Barry will still exist. WHAT THE FUCK WRITERS. WHAT THE FUCK.
Basically there's no point in Barry stopping Eobard from killing Little Barry-kun because future Barry will still exist. WHAT THE FUCK WRITERS. WHAT THE FUCK.
BLOODED_hands
Member
He had his moments imo. He plays a deranged lunatic well in a couple of his scenes. One that was posted about stealing away the hope. The other, although cheesy, was his convo with Barry. Really showed how much of a lunatic Zoom is.
Otherwise he doesn't quite settle it for me like Eobard Wells. That was a good villain through and through. It's going to be hard to top Tom's performance.
Ironically the Supergirl episode where this happens is one of their best episodes in the first season.
You're better off watching 12 Monkeys if you want a good time travel show. Or hell even Doctor Who if you're desperate.
Seriously guys. There's going to be an episode in the not so distant future where Barry will chase Eobard to his old home where his mother gets killed. That whole series of events just became totally redundant if a past version of a character dying doesn't kill the future version with him/her.
The writers fucked up.
Teddy Sears has done a fine job. It's the writing at fault here. They just had him explain that he managed to convince his past self to be killed and...wait for it... he thought it was a "brilliant" plan.
WHAT THE FUCK WRITERS
The writers fucked up.
Teddy Sears has done a fine job. It's the writing at fault here. They just had him explain that he managed to convince his past self to be killed and...wait for it... he thought it was a "brilliant" plan.
WHAT THE FUCK WRITERS
Just_myles
Member
Kind of correct. We already know what is going to happen. However, Barry did go back in time(again) and as such could have changed things? Redeemed?
Should have said speed force clone. No explanation needed.
Should have said speed force clone. No explanation needed.
Seriously. Just say Velocity 9 or whatever created a speed clone. That's all they had to do and no one would be mad.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Yup. Yuuup.
Yep, it's this two. Joe Peracchio & David Kob
Best moment of the episode
Nutted but she still suckin
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I wouldn't be shocked. But that would be really stupid. Especially with the "You wouldn't believe me if I told you" line.
I kind of understand them not using the speed clone thing. Most viewers would be like "what the fuck is a speed clone? How does that even work?"
That said, what they COULD'VE done is not actually shown Jay get killed. He's standing by the portal and Zoom pulls him through. As far as the gang knows he dies, but in fact Zoom brings him back to his present time. That would explain why Zoom has memories of Caitlin, and gets rid of the fuckery of killing his past self while still existing (and retaining his memories because reasons).
So yea, writers fucked up. It's almost like they didn't know where they were going with the story and this was the culmination of them trying to make things fit.
That said, what they COULD'VE done is not actually shown Jay get killed. He's standing by the portal and Zoom pulls him through. As far as the gang knows he dies, but in fact Zoom brings him back to his present time. That would explain why Zoom has memories of Caitlin, and gets rid of the fuckery of killing his past self while still existing (and retaining his memories because reasons).
So yea, writers fucked up. It's almost like they didn't know where they were going with the story and this was the culmination of them trying to make things fit.
I'm leaning towards twin brother or another time travelling version of himself who tried to stop him who happens to be named Jay Garrick.
Permanently A
Junior Member
Yeah, now it checks out why Mask taps out J A Y.
There's still the mystery of how Hunter was able to swap places with Jay Garrick with no one knowing though.
Counterpoint: they don't write these episodes in a vacuum. The whole room breaks down the story, sometimes to the smallest detail and then the showrunners pore over each script at the very least.
It's not like all of a sudden on the day they shoot this episode this script appears from nowhere and no one has anyone idea what was written but they film it anyway.
I can imagine for a show like The Flash there is a very deliberate amount of story detail being put together before being written, so it's not like anything but the smallest of smallest touches were really attributed solely to the writers credited for the episode.
A past version? Which would explain why he hasn't killed him.
LMAO
Well, he has already killed his past version.
Maybe he doesn't want to kill his future version.
Maybe our theories and speculation are more interesting and make more sense than what the writers will put out.
Seriously though, it's definitely the real Jay Garrick.
Somebody please caption this.
Then how is he alive? That Zolomon was from another branch of time? A different Earth?
PhysicsGaf get in here, HALP!
They shrugged it off as "time remnant" like Eobard but it's bullshit because then why would the Reverse Flash try to kill Barry Allen the kid if Flash won't be wiped off the map?
I'd love to hear the writers explain that one.
Permanently A
Junior Member
The only way it works is if the alternate is from an alternate timeline.
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