Now, if you have problems with the execution of everything this season, fair game. In that way especially, this season is like Arrow S3. I've maintained since that season wrapped that it actually sounds really great on paper and has some awesome story beats but is ultimately betrayed by its execution (and apparently some serious production issues). Flash S3 is probably going to fall somewhere in line with that, where there are a bunch of interesting plot points that sounds great when you talk about them but never actually come together to form a cohesive whole.
Not a big fan of using this GAF microcosm, as representative of general opinions on the season/episode. One look at the reviews for the episode/twitter reactions show a lot of love and shock over this episode. GAF =/= general opinion. Just because one thread of negative gaffers going "Shit sucks" doesn't mean that the show will go down in history as Arrow S3 bad.
Not a big fan of using this GAF microcosm, as representative of general opinions on the season/episode. One look at the reviews for the episode/twitter reactions show a lot of love and shock over this episode. GAF =/= general opinion. Just because one thread of negative gaffers going "Shit sucks" doesn't mean that the show will go down in history as Arrow S3 bad.
To be honest, I think Wells standing is what led us here. They kept repeating it and it kept being epic. Here they thought they could keep repeating villain arcs and it'd have the same result.
I mean, give me a metric we can use then. I don't particularly like it either but it shows two things:
1) That Arrow S3 was not considered bad by the people who vote on IMDB, which is at least a larger subset of people than a GAF thread.
2) That this current season of Flash is falling within the same boundaries as Arrow S3.
The comparison between the two seasons is legit. And I'm not even arguing that this season of Flash is irredeemable, either (as I don't consider Arrow S3 irredeemable).
I mean, give me a metric we can use then. I don't particularly like it either but it shows two things:
1) That Arrow S3 was not considered bad by the people who vote on IMDB, which is at least a larger subset of people than a GAF thread.
2) That this current season of Flash is falling within the same boundaries as Arrow S3.
The comparison between the two seasons is legit. And I'm not even arguing that this season of Flash is irredeemable, either (as I don't consider Arrow S3 irredeemable).
We've been preparing you for this for months, guys. It'd be fun to go back and find the first person to post that Barry is Savitar in here.
Anyway, I don't really see why the reveal that Savitar is an evil, corrupted Barry is making so many people angry. It's the only reveal that not only makes thematic sense but also offers the chance for some sort of character growth.
A corrupted Ronnie or Eddie not only does a disservice to those two characters, but it is also just pure fanservice wankery. There's no character growth to be had from it being Eddie.
"Oh, shit, looks like that time paradox hole really fucked Eddie up. Too bad we gotta put him down."
That's all you get from that route. And it may appeal to the lizard part of your brain as a tasty bit of fluff, but it's insubstantial and meaningless.
Now, if you have problems with the execution of everything this season, fair game. In that way especially, this season is like Arrow S3. I've maintained since that season wrapped that it actually sounds really great on paper and has some awesome story beats but is ultimately betrayed by its execution (and apparently some serious production issues). Flash S3 is probably going to fall somewhere in line with that, where there are a bunch of interesting plot points that sounds great when you talk about them but never actually come together to form a cohesive whole.
So at some point he locks himself in the speed force and then gets mad at himself for locking himself in the speed force so he goes back in time to torture past him for something he hasn't done yet to himself and...
So at some point he locks himself in the speed force and then gets mad at himself for locking himself in the speed force so he goes back in time to torture past him to give for something he hasn't done yet and...
You are using fan votes from a source that's proven to being trash. Honestly....IMDb userscores? Really? I am talking about actual reviews (from IGN/TVFanatic,etc) etc, being much higher in scores than the general tone in this thread. What you are doing is like saying that Breath of the Wild, had a mixed reception when the MC userscore was 7.something, while the MC score was 98.
You believe that Arrow S3/Flash S3 are flawed/could be better, and are using flawed userscores from easily abusable sources to prove your claim. I can't let that fly. Like I said, if we listened to GAF, then Skyrim is one of the worst RPGs of all time. In the real world, it's one of the most acclaimed games of all time.
You are using fan votes from a source that's proven to being trash. Honestly....IMDb userscores? Really? I am talking about actual reviews (from IGN/TVFanatic,etc) etc, being much higher in scores than the general tone in this thread. What you are doing is like saying that Breath of the Wild, had a mixed reception when the MC userscore was 7.something, while the MC score was 98.
You believe that Arrow S3/Flash S3 are flawed/could be better, and are using flawed userscores from easily abusable sources to prove your claim. I can't let that fly. Like I said, if we listened to GAF, then Skyrim is one of the worst RPGs of all time. In the real world, it's one of the most acclaimed games of all time.
In my original comments I was going by my own opinions, not GAF consensus. GAF consensus would have you believe Arrow S3 is the worst garbage possible.
I posted the IMDB scores in response to another poster asking about the general consensus outside of GAF. IMDB is the only measurable metric available. I understand it is flawed but it has absolutely no baring on the argument I am making.
My original comment:
"Now, if you have problems with the execution of everything this season, fair game. In that way especially, this season is like Arrow S3. I've maintained since that season wrapped that it actually sounds really great on paper and has some awesome story beats but is ultimately betrayed by its execution (and apparently some serious production issues). Flash S3 is probably going to fall somewhere in line with that, where there are a bunch of interesting plot points that sounds great when you talk about them but never actually come together to form a cohesive whole."
Nowhere do I mention anyone's critical consensus other than my own. So I'm not sure where your line of argument is even coming from, really.
I think the writers are having a hard time writing for him. I really can't tell if Barry is faster than he was in Season 1. In this episode alone he chooses to jump in front of people instead of moving them out the way.
Spend your time on forums and then get disappointed that someone guessed a reveal right on a medium where thousands of people crowd source ideas and theories.
Spend your time on forums and then get disappointed that someone guessed a reveal right on a medium where thousands of people crowd source ideas and theories.
Pointing to stories throughout history, Kreisberg says, Usually the hero and the villain have the same backstory, just one took the pain and tragedy that they were subjected to and it girded them into wanting to do good and become a hero, and with the villain, it damaged them so badly [that] they wanted to make everybody hurt as badly as they did. Barry sees in Savitar that he couldve gone down that path, too, but he had Iris, Joe, Cisco, Caitlin, his father, he had the memory of his mother he had all of these things that helped mold him into the hero that he is. Savitar lost all that.
Spend your time on forums and then get disappointed that someone guessed a reveal right on a medium where thousands of people crowd source ideas and theories.
The disappointment seems to be stemming from a mediocre ass season that has capped off with a meh reveal that anyone who watched the first couole Savitar appearances could think of
I don't even know why people so overly worried about the GAF consensus being relevant or not, I just think Arrow S3 is bad, just like I think Flash S3 is bad. Don't need a consensus to agree with me to feel that way lol
It's the curse of Barry Allen. Let us move on to the better Speedster in Wally West. Just let him do heroic shit and have a lesser focus on his background since it's been nearly dealt with already this season
Zoom was also Barry if Barry did turn evil so Hunter Zolomon was right. Eobard Thawne was right. We've been watching a supervillain show that disguises itself as a superhero show. Barry is and was the villain for all the seasons; past, current, and future.
This is the worst season of the Flash so far. They seem to have ran out of unique ideas and they're only 3 years into the run of the show, I pray for S4. I honestly thought Barry being Savitar was too obvious so it couldn't be true but damn that's the last time I put faith into CW writers.
This is the worst season of the Flash so far. They seem to have ran out of unique ideas and they're only 3 years into the run of the show, I pray for S4. I honestly thought Barry being Savitar was too obvious so it couldn't be true but damn that's the last time I put faith into CW writers.
True, I doubt they had ideas in the first place. The Harrison Wells storyline from S1 had been floating around in leaked scripts for a failed flash movie project for a while so it actually had time to develop into something good. S2 onwards didn't.
Savitar reveal has been obvious for a long time now. This season has been rather disappointing as truly good episodes seem fewer and far between than previous seasons. At least most of the main characters are still fun and interesting in comparison to Supergirl's cast.
Didn't hate the reveal. This was a possibility for the true identity of Savitar for a while especially after the 'I am the future... Flash' line.
They still framed it like it could have been anyone though, kept us all guessing. Maybe after Zoom my expectations were lowered, but I find it satisfying enough. I mean it had to be someone from team Flash, unless like the most recent Supergirl episode
they were a new character who was stalking the whole cast the past year
.
We still don't know if it was an even further iteration of the future Flash from last week (the hair suggests it could be), a time remnant, from Flashpoint or something else.
Show is isn't always A+ quality but it is keeping me intrigued.
Well that was expected and it wouldn't have been bad by itself if it didn't take this long and should have been revealed by the winter break. The breaks hurt it too, there have been a season of Barry's mistake i just wished it was executed better , while not bad just frustrating
With some creative thought, it could actually work. Even better, it presents some rather interesting questions about the nature of the 'self' and paths not followed.
