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[GuessMyUserName]

A contradiction would be saying it's predictable but it came out of nowhere. Nobody's saying that.

Predictable + Slow are two completely different opinions. Heck if any relation did exist between predictability/speed it would be a proportional one because more time to convey a story inherently provides more time to give it away. IE, taking issue of the predictability comes along with taking issue of the time it took to reach.

 

[Sober]

Now, if you have problems with the execution of everything this season, fair game. In that way especially, this season is like Arrow S3. I've maintained since that season wrapped that it actually sounds really great on paper and has some awesome story beats but is ultimately betrayed by its execution (and apparently some serious production issues). Flash S3 is probably going to fall somewhere in line with that, where there are a bunch of interesting plot points that sounds great when you talk about them but never actually come together to form a cohesive whole.

Thank you! I feel like I sound crazy at times but I feel the same about Arrow S3 as well. Good on paper but execution was bad. This season of The Flash feels similar in that regard in nearly every which way from the thematic to the arc of the lead character. A lot of the beats are there but I feel like sometimes they are put off to the wayside when they should be front and center of the season.

 

[caliph95]

Also to move on to other stuff the stuff about cisco worrying about killing caitlin is weird not the fact he doesn't want to kill caitlin i get that but the fact he was afraid of killing her accidentally. Call me the biggest dumbass but i don't think that ever came out and while he has trouble controlling he never was worried about killing people because we never seen an indication he could by accident. I get him being hesitant attacking Cait but that felt weird and something they added to have to have Cisco to do this episode.

My feelings as well, Savitars identity could have been revealed when Wally freed him, then been explained in the next episode when Barry entered the speedforce and it would have made both those episodes awesome, instead they kept dropping hints and teasing for so long that there was really only 1 option left and Savitars threat as a villain has been eroded to a kinda boring nub of what it was when he first beat the crap out of Barry.

Nitpicking but it not like he doesn't have any other goals it's weird that savitar hasn't killed the team ages ago it's not like Barry is constantly with them he could have easily kill the team when Barry wasn't there.

 

[Ghost]

There's no problem with the reveal. I don't really have a problem with Savitar being Barry.

The issue has been the handling of the reveal and the pacing of the season overall. The point of any reveal is to exceed expectations. You offer hints and then you reveal something that surprises and excites. The audience should say, "I didn't expect that, but it makes so much sense."

This is largely why the Arrow reveal of Prometheus works. Or the original reveal of Reverse Flash.

Future Barry makes thematic sense, but the show has been dragging that reveal out. It should've been a few episodes back. As it stands, the team has sort of been spinning in place for the past episodes, not accomplishing much and looking kinda of stupid doing so.

My feelings as well, Savitars identity could have been revealed when Wally freed him, then been explained in the next episode when Barry entered the speedforce and it would have made both those episodes awesome, instead they kept dropping hints and teasing for so long that there was really only 1 option left and Savitars threat as a villain has been eroded to a kinda boring nub of what it was when he first beat the crap out of Barry.

 

[Estellex]

So I saw this coming. This was a lot of stretching to get to this point. Unnecessary probably but they seem to be running out of ideas pun intended.

As satisfied as a cheeseburger and fries it is what it is.

Please no more speedster villains.

Also where does CW find its women? Cecile in that jogging outfit? Whew make a nigga wanna hop on the Bowflex, Girl look sweeter than a Hershey Kisses! I love you too Cecile.

Glad I wasn't the one that thought that.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

*sigh* This is where I get off, Flash-GAF. This episode was padded beyond belief and nothing makes sense.

-Why doesn't Savitar just kill Dr. Brand?
-Why would Caitlin stage a Mexican standoff when she knows that Team Flash would take Dr Brand back to Star Labs, a place she literally helped build and knows the security for?
-How would Savitar know exactly what's going to happen now when this is a new timeline created by Barry going into the future and getting the info about Dr Brand? This Savitar should know about her existence but shouldn't know how the events would play out... otherwise how did he get trapped to begin with? Or why wouldn't he kill Dr Brand in the 4 years between Iris dying and him being trapped?
-So just because Caitlin's their friend they destroy evidence again to cover up her crimes? But other metas that went crazy cause of their powers go to jail forever? Ok...

3 scenes with HR and Dr Brand having coffee. 4 scenes dealing with Joe's relationship with Cecile. 3 scenes of Julian and Cisco bickering. It's just way too much wheel spinning.

Hopefully things are better with a clean slate in Season 4. But I'm done wasting my time. It's just exhausting to watch at this point.

 

[ZeroX03]

"Cause and Effect" Extended Promo

Apparently they avoided a writer's strike, but the hairdresser's strike is going ahead. Cisco and Wally growing it out a bit.

 

[Magwik]

Savitar is tied directly to our Barry. The vision of Iris being killed and the trip to Future Barry should be considered as one single possible future.

Savitar cannot exist without Savitar existing.
10/10

I'm just going to assume that Savitar cannot directly influence the past until Iris' death as that's his moment of birth, and that for every version of him to be trapped in the Speedforce culminate into one Savitar with all of the combined memories.

God I hate time travel. At least for RF he was creating a new timeline, as he came from one where Barry became the Flash 10 years later than the show.

 

[Anbokr]

I actually love the idea of an evil Barry and I bet the writers ran with it after so many people theorized/fanfic'd over Zoom being evil Barry last season.

The problem with this season isn't that Savitar is Barry (provided it has a good explanation in the next couple episodes), it's just that the season just feels so drawn out. They had flashpoint... they had such a perfect setting for an entertaining season then curtailed it in one episode and gave us 14-15 episodes of complete bullshit.

They just completely dropped the ball on the filler and the build-up, the idea and Savitar as a villain are very cool in my book.

 

[carlsojo]

Pretty good episode but it was a bizarre choice to toss in that Cecile drama in there. I actually was worried she would be revealed to be Savitar. Should have given that time to more Killer Frost because she's fucking awesome.

 

[Magwik]

Pretty good episode but it was a bizarre choice to toss in that Cecile drama in there. I actually was worried she would be revealed to be Savitar. Should have given that time to more Killer Frost because she's fucking awesome.

how else are we going to get Joe death flags?

 

[LotusHD]

Pretty good episode but it was a bizarre choice to toss in that Cecile drama in there. I actually was worried she would be revealed to be Savitar. Should have given that time to more Killer Frost because she's fucking awesome.

Why tho

 

[carlsojo]

Why tho

Because her suddenly showing up and getting a bunch of scenes and drama was random as fuck the same episode of the big Savitar reveal.

 

[Anbokr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiY1AQjIaP0

^^ God damn this dude fucking nailed Barry = Savitar. Props. I know a lot of people, even myself, felt like it was going to be Barry, but those were mostly shots in the dark -- this guy just lays it all and catches every little hint beyond the "I'm the future Flash" line that started most of the Barry=Savitar theories.

I was constantly thinking it still just doesn't make sense (post-reveal); how does past Barry see Future Barry (Savitar), and still become Savitar? How does emo long hair Barry not know who Savitar is or why does he lie to Past Barry when he says he doesn't know (when he knows it's himself)? Well it makes sense if Past Barry does everything in his power to prevent turning into Savitar after Iris dies -- which leads to him ridding himself of his inner darkness because he knows somehow somewhere some future part of him becomes Savitar, but he doesn't know how -- which in turn actually creates Savitar (inner darkness Barry who is now trapped in the Speed Force, beyond time), and that newly created Savitar knows the only way it (Future Barry) exists is if Iris dies (so that Barry rids himself of his inner darkness) and so it has to go kill Iris, creating the loop.

It also explains why when Barry talked to his future depressed self, his future self didn't say much and that he didn't know Savitar. This is because he (Emo Barry) knows that he finds out who Savitar is before Savitar actually kills Iris (when he is Past Barry), and yet it changes nothing. So it doesn't matter if past Barry knows or not; Iris is still going to die even when he (past Barry) tries to change up the timeline, and eventually learns of Savitar's identity before Iris actually dies (because emo Barry also found out who Savitar was before Iris died and she still died).

Still a bit messy as all things time travel, but makes the most sense to me. The question with time travel though is always what created the first loop though, this makes sense from the perspective of how does past Barry know he becomes Savitar yet still becomes Savitar, but not how the very first Barry (that created the loop) actually becomes Savitar? That might go unexplained or originate in a Future Flash (like the comics) explanation or something to do with Reverse Flash (back when he said he's going to change one thing).

Alternatively they just retcon/trample over everything they've told us and Savitar is just a time remnant left to die or just Flashpoint Barry and wouldn't know all of these Barry quotes or events.

 

[Bluth54]

This thread is Arrow S3 God awful. The circle is complete

Just wait until Flash follows the Arrowverse quality cycle and Flash season 4 is even worse than season 3.
Thankfully we have the season 5 rebound to look forward to.

 

[sirap]

Damn it, they went with the most the most obvious choice. And here I thought the writers were being clever with red herrings and on the nose clues.

Color me disappointed.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Just finished it, pretty great episode I thought. Quite liked the reveal although I think by the time they finally got around to it it was probably a bit more obvious than it should have been.

Honestly though I've really enjoyed the season overall. There have definitely been some down episodes and they've dragged things out a bit more than necessary but comparing it to Arrow S3 and S4 just seems nuts to me. Even if S3 of Flash ends up being one of the lower points of the series it still shits all over what Arrow was putting out during those 2 years.

 

[Ghost]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiY1AQjIaP0

^^ God damn this dude fucking nailed Barry = Savitar. Props. I know a lot of people, even myself, felt like it was going to be Barry, but those were mostly shots in the dark -- this guy just lays it all and catches every little hint beyond the "I'm the future Flash" line that started most of the Barry=Savitar theories.

I was constantly thinking it still just doesn't make sense (post-reveal); how does past Barry see Future Barry (Savitar), and still become Savitar? How does emo long hair Barry not know who Savitar is or why does he lie to Past Barry when he says he doesn't know (when he knows it's himself)? Well it makes sense if Past Barry does everything in his power to prevent turning into Savitar after Iris dies -- which leads to him ridding himself of his inner darkness because he knows somehow somewhere some future part of him becomes Savitar, but he doesn't know how -- which in turn actually creates Savitar (inner darkness Barry who is now trapped in the Speed Force, beyond time), and that newly created Savitar knows the only way it (Future Barry) exists is if Iris dies (so that Barry rids himself of his inner darkness) and so it has to go kill Iris, creating the loop.

It also explains why when Barry talked to his future depressed self, his future self didn't say much and that he didn't know Savitar. This is because he (Emo Barry) knows that he finds out who Savitar is before Savitar actually kills Iris (when he is Past Barry), and yet it changes nothing. So it doesn't matter if past Barry knows or not; Iris is still going to die even when he (past Barry) tries to change up the timeline, and eventually learns of Savitar's identity before Iris actually dies (because emo Barry also found out who Savitar was before Iris died and she still died).

Still a bit messy as all things time travel, but makes the most sense to me. The question with time travel though is always what created the first loop though, this makes sense from the perspective of how does past Barry know he becomes Savitar yet still becomes Savitar, but not how the very first Barry (that created the loop) actually becomes Savitar? That might go unexplained or originate in a Future Flash (like the comics) explanation or something to do with Reverse Flash (back when he said he's going to change one thing).

Alternatively they just retcon/trample over everything they've told us and Savitar is just a time remnant left to die or just Flashpoint Barry and wouldn't know all of these Barry quotes or events.

They used that flashback from Barry creating the time remnants so I think that's what they'll go with, I imagine they'll gloss over the part where Barry somehow managed to grab him from the future instead of the past.

 

[TVexperto]

I really liked the episode, the fights and effects were great and Barry being smart and actually finding out he is savitar was pretty cool with the flashbacks and music.

 

[Xenoboy]

I loved this episode, KF was doing some cool gliding and Savitar reveal is expected, but I like it. Season isn't horrible or garbage as some say, it's fun and serviceable. I now expect them to delve into why Barry is doing all of this, if not I'll be angry.

 

[strafer]

uh what?

 

[Joni]

Just finished it, pretty great episode I thought. Quite liked the reveal although I think by the time they finally got around to it it was probably a bit more obvious than it should have been.

Honestly though I've really enjoyed the season overall. There have definitely been some down episodes and they've dragged things out a bit more than necessary but comparing it to Arrow S3 and S4 just seems nuts to me. Even if S3 of Flash ends up being one of the lower points of the series it still shits all over what Arrow was putting out during those 2 years.

Arrow S3 and S4 were a lot less by the numbers though. Flash S3 brings exactly what we expect.

 

[Salamando]

When they explain Savitar's origin fully, I hope pictures and graphs are involved. I have so many questions...

Was he somehow imprisoned before Flashpoint, or does the speedforce just allow people to see universes that no longer exist? Was he imprisoned in the future and the speedforce dragged him to the present, or did emo-Barry travel back in time and trap him in the distant past? How did the alchemist's stone become the cage's key? How much time-travelling did Savitar have to do for him to become a legend Jay Garrick knows about? Sav-Barry looks pretty good considering how many armies and cults he's said to have founded. Since the Speedforce Cage already exists (with Jay still stuck in it), is Tracy just building a Savitar specific trap?

 

[Skux]

Just because it is predictable does not mean it is not satisfying.

We know most movies will end with the protagonist defeating the villain and winning over the romantic interest and saving the world. We know the structure of most songs even when listening them to the first time. We know how books and TV shows will unfold their arcs.

But we still keep watching. Because the joy of storytelling is not what is told, it's how it's told.

The reason we all knew that Savitar is future Barry is because of the foreshadowing and groundwork done by previous episodes. If that part of the storytelling failed, the reveal would have been out of nowhere and we would all be scratching our heads and thinking the writers had stretched themselves way too thin, and then any explanation they offered would seem like a total asspull (see: Jay Garrick clones being explained by time remnants).

For me, the reveal was satisfying, despite already being certain. It's having your theory confirmed as being true as a reward for following the show so closely. It's seeing all the moving parts finally form a whole.

 

[Estellex]

Just because it is predictable does not mean it is not satisfying.

The reason we all knew that Savitar is future Barry is because of the foreshadowing and groundwork done by previous episodes. If that part of the storytelling failed, the reveal would have been out of nowhere and we would all be scratching our heads and thinking the writers had stretched themselves way too thin, and then any explanation they offered would seem like a total asspull (see: Jay Garrick clones being explained by time remnants).

For me, the reveal was satisfying, despite already being certain. It's having your theory confirmed as being true as a reward for following the show so closely. It's seeing all the moving parts finally form a whole.

Yea that's why the reveal was brilliant. It was said from the start. I think the writer want it to be obvious, but also wants to see how many people think otherwise.

I mean Savitar did say he was the future flash from the get go.

 

[caliph95]

Just because it is predictable does not mean it is not satisfying.

.

What if it was both

 

[strafer]

Should I watch this episode?

 

[caliph95]

Should I watch this episode?

Sure you should why not

 

[Johndoey]

Just because it is predictable does not mean it is not satisfying.

We know most movies will end with the protagonist defeating the villain and winning over the romantic interest and saving the world. We know the structure of most songs even when listening them to the first time. We know how books and TV shows will unfold their arcs.

But we still keep watching. Because the joy of storytelling is not what is told, it's how it's told.

The reason we all knew that Savitar is future Barry is because of the foreshadowing and groundwork done by previous episodes. If that part of the storytelling failed, the reveal would have been out of nowhere and we would all be scratching our heads and thinking the writers had stretched themselves way too thin, and then any explanation they offered would seem like a total asspull (see: Jay Garrick clones being explained by time remnants).

For me, the reveal was satisfying, despite already being certain. It's having your theory confirmed as being true as a reward for following the show so closely. It's seeing all the moving parts finally form a whole.

But it was predictable and unsatisfying. It failed on every level. We did this shit last season, but at least Zoom was actually a threatening antagonist, Savitar is a lump of glowing metal that just sort of exists in the world.

Should I watch this episode?

Might as well.

 

[sirap]

Should I watch this episode?

Might as well get it over with. Like ripping off an old band-aid.

At least now we're left with 3 episodes to wrap things off.

Where shit actually gets done.

 

[strafer]

Reason I ask is because I kinda lost interest in the show. I really hate that but i did, i used to love the show.

 

[ZeroX03]

I don't think they even did a particular good job of Savitar being "one step ahead" or being super knowledgeable. He didn't seem super competent, and because he can't kill anyone he's barely a threat. Just look at Barry thinking back on all the things Savitar did... not a lot really, just a few fights and some Draco monologues. Prometheus said he was ten steps ahead and meant it and showed it. He actually knows Oliver in and out.

Just because it is predictable does not mean it is not satisfying.

A satisfying reveal would've been months ago at this point. The joy of storytelling requires the skill of pacing.

 

[Patryn]

I don't get it.

1) Current Barry goes to Bad Future and meets Wig Barry, who says he doesn't know who Savitar is. He tells Barry to find Scientist, who helped him trap Savitar too late.
2) In the present, because Barry found Scientist, there's a Warehouse Showdown
3) During Warehouse Showdown, Caitlin knows exactly what happens because Savitar told her.

In order for Savitar to know what happened, Current Barry had to have been in a situation that (according to Wig Barry) never happened. If it was all predestined, Wig Barry would have to have known Indeterminate Barry was Savitar, as he'd already lived through Current Barry finally realizing it.

Indeterminate Barry seems scarred, so he'd need to be post-Wig Barry, I guess.

So either 1) Wig Barry lied to current Barry for no raisin and then got all scarred and became Indeterminate Barry or 2) the writers messed up.

Am I the only who thought it was obvious (like the writers were practically holding up a giant flashing sign) that Future Barry was totally lying to past Barry? I felt it was implied that knowing that Savitar was himself was part of why he was distancing himself from his friends and disbanded Team Flash?

 

[Xenoboy]

Reason I ask is because I kinda lost interest in the show. I really hate that but i did, i used to love the show.

If you've fallen out of love with the show, take a break and maybe watch rest of the season a rainy day. i do that sometimes

 

[Patryn]

I also hope that the writers realize while planning for S4 that instead of deconstructing Barry's character they more just ruined him to the point that he's oddly become possibly my least favorite character on the show, and is only saved from total suckage by Grant Gustin's inherent charm.

Like, I honestly no longer expect any level of competency from him at all.

 

[grap3fruitman]

at least Zoom was actually a threatening antagonist, Savitar is a lump of glowing metal that just sort of exists in the world.

What the hell has Savitar been doing with his new-found freedom?? He escaped and... what? He hasn't done anything. You think he's just going out for groceries and coffee and shit?

 

[ZeroX03]

What the hell has Savitar been doing with his new-found freedom?? He escaped and... what? He hasn't done anything. You think he's just going out for groceries and coffee and shit?

Nothing. It doesn't seem like he's allowed to interfere with the timeline until Iris dies. Maybe he's off with Patty on his downtime?

 

[caliph95]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/AyWFFZC.jpg[/IMG]

 

[nOoblet16]

Lol everyone saw this coming, if you are going to sit on a reveal for this long then atleast don't make it so obvious to viewers and at the same time make the characters completely oblivious to it.

And it comes back to what I said last week that we've only met this future flash once and then we get a reveal that he is Savitar. Unlike Reverse Flash and Zoom who we saw throughout the season. We saw Zoom terrorise two worlds while his alter ego was mentoring Barry. We saw Reverse Flash carry out parts of his plans while he was mentoring Barry.

On the other hand we see Savitar do fuckall for the entire season, the entire season has been about trying to prevent one death that Barry accidentally saw. And we've see this future flash for a grand total of like 5 minutes before this reveal. It's easy to see the problem here.


Also TWICE did Flash run into Killer Frost's ice beam in order to save someone when he could just as easily lifted/pushed the person away...just like he does the first time he saves someone from her beam in this episode. Y he so dumb?

Yea that's why the reveal was brilliant. It was said from the start. I think the writer want it to be obvious, but also wants to see how many people think otherwise.

I mean Savitar did say he was the future flash from the get go.

Like I said the thing about foreshadowing is that it should avoid being so obvious that it feels jarring when the characters are clueless about it. And if it is that obvious then it should avoid dragging it out for a long time because then it makes the characters feel even dumber. This reveal should have been done 3-4 months ago.

 

[strafer]

If you've fallen out of love with the show, take a break and maybe watch rest of the season a rainy day. i do that sometimes

But then I won't be able to hang in here.

 

[GuessMyUserName]

Just because it is predictable does not mean it is not satisfying.

We know most movies will end with the protagonist defeating the villain and winning over the romantic interest and saving the world. We know the structure of most songs even when listening them to the first time. We know how books and TV shows will unfold their arcs.

But we still keep watching. Because the joy of storytelling is not what is told, it's how it's told.

The reason we all knew that Savitar is future Barry is because of the foreshadowing and groundwork done by previous episodes. If that part of the storytelling failed, the reveal would have been out of nowhere and we would all be scratching our heads and thinking the writers had stretched themselves way too thin, and then any explanation they offered would seem like a total asspull (see: Jay Garrick clones being explained by time remnants).

For me, the reveal was satisfying, despite already being certain. It's having your theory confirmed as being true as a reward for following the show so closely. It's seeing all the moving parts finally form a whole.

I agree with all that you're saying here... except for thinking it applies to the Savitar reveal. I'm totally cool with reveals lining up with foreshadowing, sometimes things are predictable for a reason, because it makes sense.

But the thing is, the show needs to treat the secret that way. This season treated Savitar's identity like a huge reveal, and after we just had the season of Zoom the whole secret identity mystery is just tiring. We've been getting sick of it for a while and last week really pushed it, even getting Killer Frost to straight up exclaim "You're all going to be shocked!!!". By the time this season finally go to revealing Savitar, I wasn't feeling excitement over my prediction becoming true. Half-way through the episode it's so strongly hammered in without saying that I'm just waiting for them to get it over with. It got to the point where the cast just starts to look stupid in their confusion because of how obvious the build-up was.

Season 1 had a secret identity, they laid it out right from the start and that was one of the best seasons of all these Comic TV series. Shows gotta know how long their secrets can last, Savitar failed that miserably. And honestly I say this despite *loving* the plot itself of an evil Barry. I'm glad that's who Savitar is, but I'm frustrated the show wouldn't let me enjoy it.

Like I said the thing about foreshadowing is that it should avoid being so obvious that it feels jarring when the characters are clueless about it. And if it is that obvious then it should avoid dragging it out for a long time because then it makes the characters feel even dumber. This reveal should have been done 3-4 months ago.

Exactly, this pretty much encapsulates my feelings on the matter.

 

[caliph95]

Hey guys silver lining flash is actually the fastest man alive for once

 

[nOoblet16]

I'm sad that the show with best Speedster ie. legends has ended. It was also infinitely better than The Flash and it's hard to believe that The Flash was the best CW show at one point. I don't know how Arrow is this season because I stopped watching it mid season 3.

Someone mentioned this idea in the past few pages and I'm going to agree that a storyline around Barry finding out he becomes Savitar and then trying to avoid it sounds more interesting than "I saw the news in the future, let's change the news and save Iris"

Hey guys silver lining flash is actually the fastest man alive for once

And he has blue lightning...guess he is using some stuff according to the show's own logic. In which case just leave him be, he'll die his own lol

 

[Vengal]

How does this memory nonsense even work? That means this version of savitar is from this universe and not flashpoint right because it has to be collecting memories from it's past version here. Worse yet Abra Kadabra and Jay both knew who savitar was so does that mean this savitar is from the original timeline before any time travel at all?

Way way too many questions on how this works.

 

[GuessMyUserName]

Legends even handled a better Evil Flash. Black Flash was great.

 

[nOoblet16]

After 2 seasons of Barry getting played by his mentors, we now get to see Barry getting played by his own dumb self....that's how incompetent Barry is !

 

[Sir Doom]

What Fox can't CW can. That ice sled bu killer Frost. Sad Fox is too focus with Magneto and Mystique.
CW heroes have the worst kept secret identity

Good reveal

 

[caliph95]

How does this memory nonsense even work? That means this version of savitar is from this universe and not flashpoint right because it has to be collecting memories from it's past version here. Worse yet Abra Kadabra and Jay both knew who savitar was so does that mean this savitar is from the original timeline before any time travel at all?

Way way too many questions on how this works.

We would get an explanation but since he is supposed to be the "first" and is infamous enough for Jay to know of him it means he has done a lot of time travel to the past, doing what we don't know except gather a cult for "reasons". Though why he screws around in the past before creating himself is a mystery because he seems to be doing it to create himself though why he takes so long enough that he is infamous among speedsters is weird

 

[Billfisto]

Am I the only who thought it was obvious (like the writers were practically holding up a giant flashing sign) that Future Barry was totally lying to past Barry? I felt it was implied that knowing that Savitar was himself was part of why he was distancing himself from his friends and disbanded Team Flash?

That wasn't really the story they told, though. Future Barry was so upset that Iris was killed by Savitar that he not only actively obfuscated his own investigation, but also went on to become Savitar? Future Barry was so shook he couldn't tell himself that he was Savitar, even though he should remember he figured it out the very next day anyway?

Plus the whole arc of the future episode was redemptive. Future Barry was sketchy, but the episode didn't end in a place where Future Barry came off as purposefully becoming Savitar.

 

[Calm waterfall]

Is it not a paradox to show yourself before your past self?