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The Formula 1 2011 Season of Double World Champion Sebastian Vettel |OT2|

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S

Seanspeed

Banned
When Ferrari is talking about 3-car teams, they aren't talking necessarily about having three Scuderia Ferrari cars on the grid. More like a customer car situation where a team could buy a factory-supported Ferrari and run it themselves.

Read his comments here:

"Finally, there's the issue of the third car, which mark my words, we support not so much for our own interests but more for those of the sport in general. We believe the interest of the fans, media and sponsors could increase if there is a bigger number of competitive cars on track rather than cars that are two or three seconds off the pace, being lapped after just a few laps.

"As an example, remember in 1961 Giancarlo Baghetti won the French Grand Prix at Reims with a privately entered Ferrari. There you are, it would be nice one day in the future to see one of our cars running in American colours, or Chinese, or maybe those of Abu Dhabi."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95966

Think kinda like how MotoGP does it.
 
S

S. L.

Member
Seanspeed said:
When Ferrari is talking about 3-car teams, they aren't talking necessarily about having three Scuderia Ferrari cars on the grid. More like a customer car situation where a team could buy a factory-supported Ferrari and run it themselves.

Read his comments here:

"Finally, there's the issue of the third car, which mark my words, we support not so much for our own interests but more for those of the sport in general. We believe the interest of the fans, media and sponsors could increase if there is a bigger number of competitive cars on track rather than cars that are two or three seconds off the pace, being lapped after just a few laps.

"As an example, remember in 1961 Giancarlo Baghetti won the French Grand Prix at Reims with a privately entered Ferrari. There you are, it would be nice one day in the future to see one of our cars running in American colours, or Chinese, or maybe those of Abu Dhabi."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95966

Think kinda like how MotoGP does it.
Click to expand...
ahahaha

this would only cement the place of bigger teams at the top and be a disadvantage for all midfielders with any sort of ambition.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
NihonTiger90 said:
Figure you guys might find this to be a nice little pick-up (cross-posting with the Motorsports OT Thread:)

Former F1 driver/IndyCar champion Alex Zanardi wins New York Marathon's hand bike division

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/95993

It's really amazing what he's been able to do since his accident and he's competitive in like everything he does. Fantastic stuff. :)
Click to expand...
He's an inspiration to all. A great man.
 
B

Big Takeover

Member
Seanspeed said:
When Ferrari is talking about 3-car teams, they aren't talking necessarily about having three Scuderia Ferrari cars on the grid. More like a customer car situation where a team could buy a factory-supported Ferrari and run it themselves.

Read his comments here:

"Finally, there's the issue of the third car, which mark my words, we support not so much for our own interests but more for those of the sport in general. We believe the interest of the fans, media and sponsors could increase if there is a bigger number of competitive cars on track rather than cars that are two or three seconds off the pace, being lapped after just a few laps.

"As an example, remember in 1961 Giancarlo Baghetti won the French Grand Prix at Reims with a privately entered Ferrari. There you are, it would be nice one day in the future to see one of our cars running in American colours, or Chinese, or maybe those of Abu Dhabi."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95966

Think kinda like how MotoGP does it.
Click to expand...
Undoubtedly it would be insanely lucrative for Ferrari.
 
A

a176

Banned
Seanspeed said:
When Ferrari is talking about 3-car teams, they aren't talking necessarily about having three Scuderia Ferrari cars on the grid. More like a customer car situation where a team could buy a factory-supported Ferrari and run it themselves.
Click to expand...

he completely has no idea what is going on. everyone else is talking about 3 car teams. no one is talking about selling cars, because F1 already has a unified chassis, and they have multiple engine+drivetrain sellers as well.
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
a176 said:
he completely has no idea what is going on. everyone else is talking about 3 car teams. no one is talking about selling cars, because F1 already has a unified chassis, and they have multiple engine+drivetrain sellers as well.
Click to expand...

I think he wants to sell the car wholesale, from aero to engine and everything, ready to go out of the box. The ultimate paid driver car, because then any driver with enough money/backing can buy a car and enter.
 
R

RomanticHeroX

Member
People float the 3 car team idea from time to time, nothing will come of it. F1 news is incredibly cyclical; the same handful of stories occur, float around and dissipate. Three car teams, Ferrari leaving, Rossi/Loeb/whoever else jumping to F1. It comes and goes.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
Big Takeover said:
Undoubtedly it would be insanely lucrative for Ferrari.
Click to expand...
Not too much. They'd still be spending a lot of money on keeping up with factory support for the 3rd car. The extra data gained would be worth more than any money they get. And lets not act like Ferrari are alone in enjoying data trade with a team running their stuff. Mclaren and Mercedes gain similar benefits from their collaboration with Force India and Renault and Red Bull gain valuable info from working with Lotus.

Ferrari's biggest gain from this would be the increased competitiveness in the sport, theoretically leading to higher ratings and popularity. The better the sport does, the more secure and justifiable Ferrari's economic investment in the sport will be.

Lets not forget that its the big teams that are spending hundreds of millions a year in making this sport the spectacle it is. They deserve to be taken of, too. Their idea, in their minds, is a win-win one. The sport is more competitive and popular and they dont have to feel as bad pumping the hundreds of millions they do into it.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
Seanspeed said:
Lets not forget that its the big teams that are spending hundreds of millions a year in making this sport the spectacle it is. They deserve to be taken of, too. Their idea, in their minds, is a win-win one. The sport is more competitive and popular and they dont have to feel as bad pumping the hundreds of millions they do into it.
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If the big teams weren't finding some sort of financial incentive for being in the sport, they wouldn't be.

Also, as Red Bull have proven, it's possible to be profitable... and I imagine Ferrari and McLaren make a shitload more because of a much, much bigger fanbase buying all their merch.

Ferrari are just doing what Ferrari do. Playing their "we're bigger than F1" card to get a better deal. It's hardly something new.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Gordon Murray's 350MPG EV impresses at the RAC Future Car Challenge

37bth.jpg

Gordon Murray Design's T.27 electric city car achieved a clean sweep in the second running of the RAC Future Car Challenge on Saturday.

The T.27 competed against more than 65 entries including the latest technology from 11 major car manufacturers. The lightweight city car won 'Most Energy Efficient Small Car (Prototype)', 'Best Overall Pure Electric Vehicle' and 'Best Overall Entry – RAC Future Car Challenge Winner'.

The T.27 covered the 57.13 miles from Brighton to London carrying 2 occupants, inside the allocated time using less than 64 pence worth of energy – Equivalent to 350 MPG (0.81 litres / 100 km) and only 37 gm CO2 / km. On a full charge, taking only 4 hours, the T.27 can do more than 100 miles.

Gordon Murray Design chose the RAC Future Car Challenge to be the T.27's public running debut after the car's launch in July this year as "The World's Most Efficient Electric Car". The RAC Future Car Challenge is the most relevant event in the world to demonstrate new automotive green technology as it is run in real world traffic conditions producing easy to understand results and bypassing all the advertising hype.

The T.27 design and development programme was a £9 million project, made possible through a £4.5 million investment from the government-backed Technology Strategy Board. Consortium partners include Zytek Automotive Limited, Vocis and Michelin. Gordon Murray Design is currently engaged with 3 possible manufacturers for the city car, one of which is in the UK.

The T.27 is the latest vehicle to use Gordon Murray Design's innovative iStream® manufacturing process, which aims to significantly reduce lifecycle impacts and enable low cost, efficient manufacture within the UK. The T.27 sets new standards in weight, footprint, small car dynamics, safety, packaging and efficiency whilst addressing full lifecycle CO2 emissions, congestion, parking and low cost motoring.

iStream® - the manufacturing technology on which the T.27 is based - is Formula One technology for the everyday motorist, delivering benefits from 'light-weighting' along with high levels of safety. Gordon Murray Design completed a crash test programme as part of the T.27 project which included the 40% offset frontal crash test, the side impact test and the side impact pole test, achieving results which set new standards in small car safety. The Company has also recently completed a structural durability test which showed the T.27's iStream® chassis to be up to 60 times more durable than a standard steel structure.


Professor Gordon Murray, CEO & Technical Director of Gordon Murray Design said:

"This win represents a huge step forward in our race to reduce automotive energy consumption and emissions. This year's success in combination with last year's win with our petrol powered T.25, awarded 'Most Economic Small Passenger ICE Vehicle' and 'Most Economic and Environment Friendly Small Passenger ICE Vehicle', proves absolutely that lightweight is our most powerful tool for solving our energy problems. Our team is proud to have worked with the Technology Strategy Board and our other partners on this exciting programme and we look forward to working with a manufacturing partner to make the T.27 with its low running costs available to the motoring public"

David Bott, Director of Innovation Programmes at the Technology Strategy Board, said:

"Gordon Murray Design and their partners deserve every congratulation. The T.27 is a great example of creative thinking, sustainable vehicle design, clever engineering and innovative manufacturing coming together to deliver an extremely efficient electric vehicle. We are delighted to have been involved in such a dynamic technological innovation."

Neil Heslington, Managing Director of Zytek Automotive Limited, said:

"It was fantastic to see the T.27 scoop the top prize today, especially knowing the hard work and innovative effort that the combined teams of Zytek and Gordon Murray Design have put in, the remarkable performance from the combination of ultra-lightweight drivetrain and vehicle systems show us the way forward for low energy transport."
Click to expand...
Source

It would be fascinating to see what Gordon could design in the modern era of F1, he'd be more than a match for Newey, that's for sure.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
Edmond Dantès said:
He seems confident that Merc will be challenging for the titles eventually. Michael also seems to be very positive about the future. The Silver Arrows competing at the front again would be a sight to see.
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A sight to see? Only if they lose Petronas as their sponsor. That green is uuuugly. But yeah, I'm pretty confident that Mercedes will up their game in the next two years, while Ferrari will continue to lose ground. Poor Fernando.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
Hamilton not particularly happy with Whitmarsh:

Lewis Hamilton says claims by his McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh that his form has been affected by team-mate Jenson Button's success are "rubbish".

Whitmarsh said after the last race in India that the 2008 champion was "feeling under pressure" from Button, but Hamilton said that was not true.

"He made some comments which I disagree with," said Hamilton. "It's rubbish.

"My issues have been much, much bigger than that - more personal. Jenson doing great is great for the team."
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/15674872.stm


Found this comment a little, I don't know, needy?

I don't plan on being single for very long. It's nothing to do with being single or not being single. When I was in my relationship she was probably the most positive thing that was in my life - and maybe that needs to be back there.
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D

DrM

Redmond's Baby
Lewis, go after T. Ecclestone!

Maybe will Bernie die instantly due to shock.

But there is still somebody from Brazil, for whom you loathe for the whole season
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
brotkasten said:
A sight to see? Only if they lose Petronas as their sponsor. That green is uuuugly. But yeah, I'm pretty confident that Mercedes will up their game in the next two years, while Ferrari will continue to lose ground. Poor Fernando.
Click to expand...
I expect Mercedes to adopt a chrome livery once McLaren ditch theirs. As for McLaren; a return to red/white without Marlboro or black/red.
 
A

AndyD

aka andydumi
Psychotext said:
Found this comment a little, I don't know, needy?
Click to expand...

Its understandable though. With all the pressure they face, you need someone who is close to support you. And his family support seems to have changed some in the past couple of years, not for the better.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
Psychotext said:
If the big teams weren't finding some sort of financial incentive for being in the sport, they wouldn't be.

Also, as Red Bull have proven, it's possible to be profitable... and I imagine Ferrari and McLaren make a shitload more because of a much, much bigger fanbase buying all their merch.

Ferrari are just doing what Ferrari do. Playing their "we're bigger than F1" card to get a better deal. It's hardly something new.
Click to expand...
Clearly, there's already been a bit of a struggle with ALL the teams wanting a bigger piece of the pie. They dont feel they are compensated enough as it is. I'm sure the bigger teams do make money, but its impossible to say how lucrative it is for them. Either way, the teams in general deserve to be taken care of. In this economy, its becoming harder and harder for teams to justify staying in this sport. I'm honestly surprised we've had HRT for as long as we have, and I wouldn't be surprised if 'Murussia(Virgin)' dont pull out after another disappointing year.

The entry costs into F1 are high even with the cost cutting measures being made. And even when these smaller teams do get their foot in the door, its gonna be very hard for them to ever get competitive enough to justify staying. What Ferrari want is to give privateer squads a cheaper alternative than building their own cars, which is extremely expensive. So not only is it a cost-cutting measure, but it also puts more competitive machinery on the grid, which they'd prefer over having cars 3+ seconds off the pace.

Personally, I'm a bit unsure of whether I like it based solely on the 'purity' aspect of F1. People expect a team to build their own car. Customer car-ideas aren't in their idea of F1 is all about. From that perspective, I'd happily accept somebody's disagreement over the matter. But please dont just turn this into some anti-Ferrari agenda of yours. Of course its something that would benefit them. No team would be a proponent of something that wouldn't be good for them in some way. But dont pretend that there's not a perfectly good case being made for it helping the sport out as well.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
Seanspeed said:
But please dont just turn this into some anti-Ferrari agenda of yours. Of course its something that would benefit them. No team would be a proponent of something that wouldn't be good for them in some way. But dont pretend that there's not a perfectly good case being made for it helping the sport out as well.
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I don't have an anti Ferrari agenda, I'd be saying exactly the same thing if it was McLaren or Williams.

...as for it being good for the sport, I've seen the days of gentleman drivers and I don't want it back. It's a complete farce. I really doubt the drivers do either, because these guys will be nothing but a potential race ender or mobile chicane.

At least as it stands we don't have any truly bad drivers in F1.
 
B

Big Takeover

Member
Seanspeed said:
Clearly, there's already been a bit of a struggle with ALL the teams wanting a bigger piece of the pie. They dont feel they are compensated enough as it is. I'm sure the bigger teams do make money, but its impossible to say how lucrative it is for them. Either way, the teams in general deserve to be taken care of. In this economy, its becoming harder and harder for teams to justify staying in this sport. I'm honestly surprised we've had HRT for as long as we have, and I wouldn't be surprised if 'Murussia(Virgin)' dont pull out after another disappointing year.
Click to expand...

There's been a revolving door at the back of the grid for the last 60 years. I'd rather look at it from the perspective of it was easier to field a garbage team then, than it is now.

Seanspeed said:
The entry costs into F1 are high even with the cost cutting measures being made. And even when these smaller teams do get their foot in the door, its gonna be very hard for them to ever get competitive enough to justify staying. What Ferrari want is to give privateer squads a cheaper alternative than building their own cars, which is extremely expensive. So not only is it a cost-cutting measure, but it also puts more competitive machinery on the grid, which they'd prefer over having cars 3+ seconds off the pace.
Click to expand...

Ferrari would love to make the barrier of entry easier. That barrier isn't necessarily money though. Nobody wants a factory, but they all want a Prancing Horse, and their name on the engine cover. If I were Ferrari, I'd be trying to figure out how to sell Sheikhs turn-key F1 teams.

Running the colors of the rich (not the poor) was Luca's quote after all.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
Psychotext said:
I don't have an anti Ferrari agenda, I'd be saying exactly the same thing if it was McLaren or Williams.

...as for it being good for the sport, I've seen the days of gentleman drivers and I don't want it back. It's a complete farce. I really doubt the drivers do either, because these guys will be nothing but a potential race ender or mobile chicane.

At least as it stands we don't have any truly bad drivers in F1.
Click to expand...
With the money saved, these smaller teams probably wouldn't always need to resort to hiring a driver based on the highest-bidder. Not to mention that sponsors might be more easily persuaded if the team's business model doesn't look as disasterous as say HRT, ya know?

Big Takeover said:
There's been a revolving door at the back of the grid for the last 60 years. I'd rather look at it from the perspective of it was easier to field a garbage team then, than it is now.



Ferrari would love to make the barrier of entry easier. That barrier isn't necessarily money though. Nobody wants a factory, but they all want a Prancing Horse, and their name on the engine cover. If I were Ferrari, I'd be trying to figure out how to sell Sheikhs turn-key F1 teams.

Running the colors of the rich (not the poor) was Luca's quote after all.
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I'm sure thats in their plan, definitely. Again, I'm not denying they wouldn't get something out of it. I just dont think its the SOLE reason they are proponents of it like some people have suggested.

And really, everybody that is even considering entering F1 is already rich. Its a matter of making it a justifiable proposition for them so not only can they enter the sport, but they can develop and grow beyond a start-up team.
 
S

S. L.

Member
Ark said:
I missed the bonus question again? God dammit.
Click to expand...
whaaaaat i missed it as well.
usually i get an email notification when it's up, but not this time -_-
and i needed that money to buy vettel ;_;
 
S

S. L.

Member
Seanspeed said:
With the money saved, these smaller teams probably wouldn't always need to resort to hiring a driver based on the highest-bidder. Not to mention that sponsors might be more easily persuaded if the team's business model doesn't look as disasterous as say HRT, ya know?
Click to expand...
I don't think money is the issue here, but in the long run it would make the championship a 3 team matter with the midfield having no chance of catching up.
The teams who sell the customer car gain a huuuge advantage when their cars are run by gaining more (testing) data, which fucks midfielders that don't sell cars, making it virtually impossible to catch up.
Then you could say, teams that don't sell cars have more testing days, but that would rise costs for them again.
I really don't see how customer cars will help the sport AT ALL. All it would do is artificially catapulting backrunners in the midfield, majorly fucking over the midfield and give advantage to the top dogs.

i hope this never happens
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Just makes you realise how neutered the technical regulations are in the top four disciplines in European motorsport; F1, Le Mans, MotoGP and the WRC. At least the 1000cc era of MotoGP starts next season.
 
D

DJ88

Member
Damn the first car that drove by sounded exactly like a modern day stock car from NASCAR. So many incredible cars, awesome video. I'm sure this has been posted many times, or seen by most of you, but if you haven't seen the film Le Mans from 1971 you're missing out big time and should watch it as soon as you get a chance.


Here's the start of the race:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zhDKFhfEgg

EDIT: 3:33 for maximum eargasm.
 
J

jey_16

Banned
so from what i am reading the periscope exhausts are confirmed and now the FIA wants to explicitly ban off throttle blowing because apparently it may even still be possible with the new exhaust rules

RBR, McLaren want to blow while Ferrari & Mercedes do not

if the off throttle blowing influences aero/diffuser then its a big advantage
 
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