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[Myoclonic Jerk]

Everything you said might be true, but the car will still suck, so it doesn't make a difference.

totally agree. I was just commenting on your point about Kimi's ability to come back as strong as before

 

[olore]

Common shoppers`, we need a Seb on GAF-pic

 

[Lach]

Damn I'm really happy that Swiss TV still shows the full season (as it seems until at least 2013).
Mid last year I happened to catch a BBC coverage and never looked back. I even prefered BBC SD between Swiss HD coverage this year.

It's not that bad really. It's just the missing pre-/post- coverage and the commentator focuses way to much on Sauber (understandably). Sometimes they were actually able to radio up Peter Sauber during the race.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

Damn I'm really happy that Swiss TV still shows the full season (as it seems until at least 2013).
Mid last year I happened to catch a BBC coverage and never looked back. I even prefered BBC SD between Swiss HD coverage this year.

It's not that bad really. It's just the missing pre-/post- coverage and the commentator focuses way to much on Sauber (understandably). Sometimes they were actually able to radio up Peter Sauber during the race.

that's so cool

 

[Dilly]

JoesAward

My heart bleeds.

 

[moojito]

Kubica and Alonso in the red would be a nice pairing, right enough. Kubica strikes me as someone who would quietly get on with it and bring in the solid results and not get bogged down in the team politics.

 

[brotkasten]

Kubica and Alonso in the red would be a nice pairing, right enough. Kubica strikes me as someone who would quietly get on with it and bring in the solid results and not get bogged down in the team politics.

But would he be a good number 2 driver or get in Alonso's way? Aren't they friends anyway?

 

[Seanspeed]

Kubica and Alonso in the red would be a nice pairing, right enough. Kubica strikes me as someone who would quietly get on with it and bring in the solid results and not get bogged down in the team politics.

Not me. Kubica fought for no.1 support at BMW in 2008 and was very vocal about it when he didn't get it.

I think if Ferrari build a car capable of winning the title and Kubica and Alonso are competitive with each other, there might be a bit of a power struggle. Doesn't necessarily mean it will have to be nasty like at Mclaren in 2007 as the guys are friends, but I think its quite possible. Kubica is a very ambitious sort who has no qualms about vocalizing his discontent.

But would he be a good number 2 driver or get in Alonso's way? Aren't they friends anyway?

Kubica isn't a no.2 driver. He's too good for that. And please dont start with the 'Ferrari NEED a no.2 driver'. There's obviously a reason they aren't happy with Massa, despite him being a perfectly well-behaved no.2 right now. Ferrari would enjoy two competitive drivers like they had with Kimi and Massa to combat the competitive pairings at Mclaren and Red Bull.

 

[brotkasten]

Kubica isn't a no.2 driver. He's too good for that. And please dont start with the 'Ferrari NEED a no.2 driver'. There's obviously a reason they aren't happy with Massa, despite him being a perfectly well-behaved no.2 right now. Ferrari would enjoy two competitive drivers like they had with Kimi and Massa to combat the competitive pairings at Mclaren and Red Bull.

Alonso is at Ferrari to be the number one there, I don't think there's any doubt about that.

And competitive pairings at Red Bull? Is it 2010 again?

 

[Seanspeed]

Alonso is at Ferrari to be the number one there, I don't think there's any doubt about that.

And competitive pairings at Red Bull? Is it 2010 again?

When Alonso signed for Ferrari, there was every possibility that he'd be partnered with Kimi, while Massa was very highly rated at the time. Neither driver would have been expected to become a defacto no.2 driver.

Alonso is at Ferrari because he wants a good car. He's become their no.1 by earning it, not getting it from straight from the bat.

And yea, Webber is still competitive. Not as good as he was doing before, but that could change next year. As it stands, he's still a worry for Mclaren and Ferrari drivers at any given weekend.

 

[SunhiLegend]

If it wasn't for Massa's head injury I'm certain Kimi would have been at Ferrari with Alonso, and if Kubica didn't get injured I'm pretty sure Ferrari would not have let the option of signing him lapse.

 

[StoOgE]

I don't think the NJ race is ever going to happen. I think that was an attempt to get money out of Austin.

Tavo Hellmund (the original race promotor) bolted a few months back, and has yet to sell the race contract to the company he formarly worked for. Pretty seedy shit going on there.

In any case, the state funding isn't pulled. They just won't fund it until the contract is sold to the (current) race runners.

I don't think this race is going to happen, and I don't think NJ is either. So, no F1 race for the US it seems.

 

[Ark]

When Alonso signed for Ferrari, there was every possibility that he'd be partnered with Kimi, while Massa was very highly rated at the time. Neither driver would have been expected to become a defacto no.2 driver.

Alonso is at Ferrari because he wants a good car. He's become their no.1 by earning it, not getting it from straight from the bat.

And yea, Webber is still competitive. Not as good as he was doing before, but that could change next year. As it stands, he's still a worry for Mclaren and Ferrari drivers at any given weekend.

Ferrari fired Kimi to make way for Alonso.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

Ferrari fired Kimi to make way for Alonso.

I agree.. Santander took care of Kimi's termination fees so that the focus would be on Alonso, the reason why they sponsored Ferrari in the first place..

So if Massa wasn't fit to race, I'm sure they would've signed someone else. The main goal was to get Kimi out of the way

 

[DrM]

Ferrari won't sign any driver that pose any threat for their Spanish superstar

 

[brotkasten]

Ferrari won't sign any driver that pose any threat for their Spanish superstar

I can see Alonso moving on if they can't deliver a good, competitive car in 2012.

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

Tavo Hellmund (the original race promotor) bolted a few months back, and has yet to sell the race contract to the company he formarly worked for. Pretty seedy shit going on there.

According to Bernie, and who knows if he's playing silly buggers or not, Tavo's contract was cancelled a while back as he was in breach, and since then he's been negotiating a new contract with the track owners. But they're delaying supplying a letter of credit, so those negotiations are currently stalled.

He's given them until the 7th of December to supply it, although going by Autosport's wording, even that might not be an ultimate deadline.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96270

 

[StoOgE]

According to Bernie, and who knows if he's playing silly buggers or not, Tavo's contract was cancelled a while back as he was in breach, and since then he's been negotiating a new contract with the track owners. But they're delaying supplying a letter of credit, so those negotiations are currently stalled.

He's given them until the 7th of December to supply it, although going by Autosport's wording, even that might not be an ultimate deadline.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96270

the problem is we've reached an empasse. The state of Texas won't front the money until there is a contract.

We'll see what happens. Red McCombs has deep pockets, he can secure a letter of credit if he really wants to.

 

[Omiee]

who is going to monaco's race next year?

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

I can see Alonso moving on if they can't deliver a good, competitive car in 2012.

To? remember that no one wanted him after McLaren chose to let him go. He had to go back to Renault

Ferrari is his last team and his only chance of winning another WDC. I personally believe that next year's Ferrari is gonna kick some major asses. Not that that would make me happy, but I have a strong feeling

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

Austin is everything but axed

"We've done everything we bloody well can to make this race happen," Ecclestone told the Press Association. When asked whether the race was in danger of being dropped, he replied: "Yes, it will be for sure, 100 per cent."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96270

 

[SunhiLegend]

I can see Alonso moving on if they can't deliver a good, competitive car in 2012.

I can't believe Ferrari haven't been able to produce a championship winning car three years in a row, same with Mclaren. But it seems like Mclaren are moving in the right direction whereas Ferrari are still lagging behind. Mclaren have won 6 races this year, Ferrari have only won 1. Alonso needs a championship winning car

 

[dubc35]

I've noticed my interest has really dropped off the last couple GPs. I'm looking forward to next season!

who is going to monaco's race next year?

I wish I was was.

Austin is everything but axed
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96270

Sad news but who knows. They could have had the race and then 2 years later try to get out of it like Korea has done. It will be interesting to see if NY/NJ will happen.

 

[StoOgE]

Austin is everything but axed





http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96270

That's pulled a bit out of context. I think he is referring to the Dec 7th deadline being missed.

We'll see. The NJ announcement makes a ton of sense in the context of these negotiations going South. We may be seing a high stakes game of chicken that will get sorted out.. I imagine if that happens, NJ talks will die off quickly. I think there we are down to a 10-20% chance this race happens in Austin.

I still half expect the NJ talks to die off in any case. While I think the location makes sense, I've stayed at a hotel right along the course in Weehaken, there is relatively little infrastructure to that part of NJ from the city. You have to take a water taxi to get there, the furthest North along the Hudson the DART runs is up to Hoboken which is a good ways South... and that little light rail line that runs isn't going to get the trick done either.

 

[Seanspeed]

Ferrari fired Kimi to make way for Alonso.

Alonso signed with Ferrari in 2008. I dont think Ferrari would have decided that early to get rid of Raikkonen since he had a contract through 2010. Kimi's crazy high salary was an obvious sign that Ferrari wanted him to be their lead driver, and I think what finally clinched it was Kimi STILL not able to put a dent on Massa in 2009, so they decided to buy out his contract to get Alonso a year earlier. I think if Kimi had performed better during his time there, they'd have relished a Kimi/Alonso combo.

And I dont see Alonso moving on. Where would he go other than Red Bull? I think Red Bull are happy to have Vettel as their lead driver while they have a 2nd seat open to their line-up of Red Bull development drivers.

And dont forget Alonso very nearly won the championship last year. In his first year at Ferrari no less. This year hasn't gone as well, but the car's been competitive. He's got 10 podiums, which isn't anything to scoff at. Just cuz Ferrari haven't won the championship the past few seasons doesn't mean they wont be doing it again soon. Two things you dont do in F1:

- write off Ferrari
- write off Mclaren

Besides, the new regs look to suit Ferrari, as they haven't been able to exploit the exhaust-blowing as much as Red Bull and Mclaren have. Likely because their engine just cant take the aggressive mapping as much as the Renault and Mercedes.

 

[Burai]

I can't believe Ferrari haven't been able to produce a championship winning car three years in a row, same with Mclaren. But it seems like Mclaren are moving in the right direction whereas Ferrari are still lagging behind. Mclaren have won 6 races this year, Ferrari have only won 1. Alonso needs a championship winning car

They had a championship winning car last year but utterly screwed up the last race. The potential is there which should keep Alonso on board.

 

[StoOgE]

They had a championship winning car last year but utterly screwed up the last race. The potential is there which should keep Alonso on board.

To be completely fair, if Red Bull hadn't gone full stupid last year Alonso wouldn't have been in that position.

 

[Burai]

To be completely fair, if Red Bull hadn't gone full stupid last year Alonso wouldn't have been in that position.

True to a degree, but Ferrari's second half development push was brilliant. Alonso was the class of the field from Silverstone onward.

Why they covered off Webber who'd struggled all Abu Dhabi weekend whilst Vettel ran off into the distance I'll never know. Now that's full stupid.

 

[brotkasten]

Two things you dont do in F1:

- write off Ferrari
- write off Mclaren

"Never" can be a long time. A very, very long time.

"In 1996, Schumacher joined Ferrari for a salary of $50 million over 2 years, a team which had last won the Drivers' Championship with Jody Scheckter in 1979 and which had not won the Constructors' Cup since 1983 with drivers René Arnoux and Patrick Tambay at the wheel."

Not saying that it's that bad right now, but I couldn't blame anyone who doesn't take Ferrari that serious anymore.

Besides, the new regs look to suit Ferrari, as they haven't been able to exploit the exhaust-blowing as much as Red Bull and Mclaren have. Likely because their engine just cant take the aggressive mapping as much as the Renault and Mercedes.

Didn't McLaren and Red Bull vote against that rule change?

 

[Seanspeed]

True to a degree, but Ferrari's second half development push was brilliant. Alonso was the class of the field from Silverstone onward.

Why they covered off Webber who'd struggled all Abu Dhabi weekend whilst Vettel ran off into the distance I'll never know. Now that's full stupid.

In hindsight it was stupid, but they had to make a quick decision on Webber as he was the guy that was closest to overthrowing Alonso in the standings. I can see why they did it, but yea, it was pretty apparent in the following couple laps what a gigantic mistake it was.

 

[Seanspeed]

"Never" can be a long time. A very, very long time.

"In 1996, Schumacher joined Ferrari for a salary of $50 million over 2 years, a team which had last won the Drivers' Championship with Jody Scheckter in 1979 and which had not won the Constructors' Cup since 1983 with drivers René Arnoux and Patrick Tambay at the wheel."

Not saying that it's that bad right now, but I couldn't blame anyone who doesn't take Ferrari that serious anymore.

The most successful team of the past decade and of all-time shouldn't be taken seriously? Whatever man. I think its becoming very clear its you who shouldn't be taken seriously.

Didn't McLaren and Red Bull vote against that rule change?

Its still gonna go through. They really dont have much basis in arguing against it other than "I dont want to lose my advantage". Ross Brawn made it clear to the FIA that teams were looking/finding loopholes in the regs that were designed to stop teams from using exhaust-blowing as a downforce enhancer, so it was inevitable the FIA would clamp down on it.

 

[Ark]

-snip-

I don't put Kimi's salary down to being the lead driver, but more to being quite the negotiator with money.

Alonso will finish his years in F1 at Ferrari, and if he leaves without another World Drivers Title, it will be considered one of the biggest failings of the decade.

 

[Seanspeed]

Not that I've got anything against you, and I'm not ignoring your opinion, but I've had more than enough Kimi arguments in the last couple of years.

I don't put Kimi's salary down to being the lead driver, but more to being quite the negotiator with money.

The Kimi arguments are almost as bad as the Hamilton/Button arguments.

I dont get what you're saying. I'm a Kimi fan myself. But I'm realistic about how things went down.

 

[Chris R]

Austin is everything but axed

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96270

I just hope something gets put together by the 7th If not, oh well, I guess I need to get my passport and adjust my vacation time to be able to go watch the Montreal race, because I'm watching F1 in person next year.

 

[Ark]

I dont get what you're saying. I'm a Kimi fan myself. But I'm realistic about how things went down.

Well, you beat my stealth edit.

I feel like I'm one of the only people who feels Kimi is one of the most overrated drivers around. Post 2007, he has been lacklustre in everything he has done.

People expecting a Kimi blitz when he returns to F1 will be disappointed (I'm happy to eat my words though).

 

[brotkasten]

The most successful team of the past decade and of all-time shouldn't be taken seriously? Whatever man. I think its becoming very clear its you who shouldn't be taken seriously.

No, you!

Seriously now, why are you getting personal? You don't like my opinion, fine whatever, but there's no need to respond in that way. I think the regulars in this thread know that I'm a Ferrari fan, fully support Fernando and just trash Massa and the stupid race strategies. I never said that I don't take Ferrari seriously anymore. Maybe you should go out, get some fresh air, come back and read my post again.

 

[keit4]

Alonso will finish his years in F1 at Ferrari, and if he leaves without another World Drivers Title, it will be considered one of the biggest failings of the decade.

How a two times world champion can be one of the biggest failings of the decade? What about Hamilton then?

Anyways, i think Alonso will win at least another title before he left F1. He is one of the top 3 drivers in the grid, and he only needs a competitive car to achieve it.

 

[DrM]

Alonso will finish his years in F1 at Ferrari, and if he leaves without another World Drivers Title, it will be considered one of the biggest failings of the decade.

I would love to see this just for epic lulz

And i still think that they made major mistake with sacking Costa.

 

[Seanspeed]

Well, you beat my stealth edit.

I feel like I'm one of the only people who feels Kimi is one of the most overrated drivers around. Post 2007, he has been lacklustre in everything he has done.

People expecting a Kimi blitz when he returns to F1 will be disappointed (I'm happy to eat my words though).

I agree that he was overrated. As a fan, it wasn't easy to admit, but it was the only rational conclusion. Schumi had Massa well-in-hand in 2006. So when Schumi left, they hired the 'fastest guy in F1' and it cost them a lot of money to do so. I have no doubt in my mind he was brought in to be the lead driver/Schumi replacement. You dont pay that much money for somebody just to equal a guy who was only moderately rated. And thats why he was replaced. Had he kept up to his bargain, he'd still be racing at Ferrari, most likely alongside Alonso.

No, you!

Seriously now, why are you getting personal? You don't like my opinion, fine whatever, but there's no need to respond in that way. I think the regulars in this thread know that I'm a Ferrari fan, fully support Fernando and just trash Massa and the stupid race strategies. I never said that I don't take Ferrari seriously anymore. Maybe you should go out, get some fresh air, come back and read my post again.

Because its completely asinine to say that people shouldn't take Ferrari seriously. And yes, I understand you said you could understand 'how others would feel that way', but it says something about you just to make the statement in the first place. Because no, I dont see how anyone in their right mind could reasonably write off Ferrari. Perhaps somebody could have the opinion that Red Bull will be very difficult to beat next year, and thats understandable, but to not take the team seriously is just some bonkers shit to say.

If you're a real Ferrari fan, perhaps you should take a look at the current situation and realize that we're sitting decent right now and have a bit of optimism for next year. If Silverstone was anything to go by, the ban on these EBD's should play into Ferrari's hands right nicely. I dont think the car is as bad as it seems on the whole. The engine has always been a bit marginal in terms of cooling and fuel useage and pushing it hard since the homologation, and the advancements in the EBD has hurt us because we cant take as full use of it as other teams can.

But you know what? Go ahead and be pessimistic or let other people bash. It'll make it all the more glorious when Ferrari pull out a winning car. I'll be there to say I supported them. What will you say?

I would love to see this just for epic lulz

And i still think that they made major mistake with sacking Costa.

Apparently Rory Bryne has a bigger role as Technical Advisor for next year's car. Thats very good news.

 

[mrklaw]

Austin is everything but axed





http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96270

with Bernie you can never tell. He was saying similar things about the British GP right up to the point they signed an.agreement.

 

[Chris R]

with Bernie you can never tell. He was saying similar things about the British GP right up to the point they signed an.agreement.

Well the 2012 calendar is finalized on December 7th. Either the race is good to go by then, or it is done for.

 

[Ark]

How a two times world champion can be one of the biggest failings of the decade? What about Hamilton then?

Alonso earned his titles last decade, and moved to the biggest team on the grid with the promise of winning more in this decade.

He keeps proving week on week that he's vastly over driving what that Ferrari can do, even last year as well, for Alonso to not win another WDC in seven years with Ferrari would be embarrassing.

 

[Shaneus]

I'd say Webber would be the most disappointing. Given that he's one of the few in the top-tier teams that worked his way through the bottom feeders to get lucky with where he is, coupled with the fact that he was so achingly close last year yet this year is so far away from even a top 3 WDC finish, it kinda sucks.

And it really, really hurts to say that

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

I'd say Webber would be the most disappointing. Given that he's one of the few in the top-tier teams that worked his way through the bottom feeders to get lucky with where he is, coupled with the fact that he was so achingly close last year yet this year is so far away from even a top 3 WDC finish, it kinda sucks.

And it really, really hurts to say that

I don't really feel Webber has been at all disappointing, considering the path he's taken through F1. I remember vividly when he resigned (a possibly lengthy deal) with Jaguar, as I was so frustrated that he'd likely just thrown his career away.

Yet somehow he's scrambled through and come closer to a championship than David "THIS IS MY YEAR!" Coulthard ever did, who had a front-running car for the majority of his career.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

Alonso earned his titles last decade, and moved to the biggest team on the grid with the promise of winning more in this decade.

He keeps proving week on week that he's vastly over driving what that Ferrari can do, even last year as well, for Alonso to not win another WDC in seven years with Ferrari would be embarrassing.

I don't like Alonso, but he's a super talented driver. The only thing I hate is when people keep saying Kimi is overrated, and he has been beaten by Massa and Alonso is destroying Massa, thus, he's much better thank Kimi!

I'm a Kimi fan so this is a bit biased, but the situation and direction became different in Ferrari after 2007, Kimi was hired by Todt and Todt himself said we chose Kimi because his character is more compatible with the team (you wouldn't pay these many millions without exactly knowing what are you getting). Things changed after he left, and Dominicali clearly had a different approach and he went on to Italianize the team, it also seemed like he favored Massa more. In 2008 Chris Dyer said that Ferrari let Kimi down and not the other way round. in the first 3 races he was clearly stronger than Massa, then things has changed when they took a direction with the car that didn't suit Kimi, and the last part of the season Kimi was also clearly faster than Massa, after resolving Kimi's issues with the car, above that he was always fueled heavier and feul-adjusted he was almost always faster throughout the whole season in qualifying

long story short. When Ferrari gave Kimi the proper attention, after Massa's crash, we saw how he drove with a dog of a car putting it in places that it doesn't remotely belong to, these are the words of his engineers. His sacking was a purely business decision (hint: Santander). Even Ross Brawn (IIRC) said that Kimi and Lewis were the two highest scoring drivers in the second half of that season because they were the best drivers.

and the lack of motivation part is just funny. Kimi has been Kimi throughout his whole career and never changed a bit

I don't know why people keep stating those things as facts! There's no way we can say if Massa is the same pre-accident one, and we're not working with Kimi directly to know if he's motivated or not, we've also didn't see Kimi vs Alonso in the same car to suggest that anyone is faster than the other

I've lost what I was trying to say with this post, so I'll stop here lol

 

[Shaneus]

I don't really feel Webber has been at all disappointing, considering the path he's taken through F1. I remember vividly when he resigned (a possibly lengthy deal) with Jaguar, as I was so frustrated that he'd likely just thrown his career away.

Yet somehow he's scrambled through and come closer to a championship than David "THIS IS MY YEAR!" Coulthard ever did, who had a front-running car for the majority of his career.

Okay... now you say that, he has done far better than Coulthard. At least Webs almost fought his way up through the ranks. whereas DC has been with a top-tier team since his entry into F1.

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

Red Bull driver Jean-Eric Vergne headed the final morning of the young driver test in Abu Dhabi, setting a best mark just 0.436s off Sebastian Vettel's pole position time for last weekend's grand prix.

The Frenchman, who also topped the first two days of the test, improved on his best time by over a second to top the times by 2.430s from Ferrari's Jules Bianchi.

Oliver Turvey returned to work for McLaren after sitting out yesterday's running in favour of Gary Paffett. He ended the morning ahead of Force India returnee Max Chilton, who was fourth fastest overall.

Alexander Rossi, driving an F1 car for the first time since a tryout for BMW Sauber in December 2009, made his first appearance for Team Lotus. After spending the early running familiarising himself with the car, he ended up fifth fastest ahead of Sauber's Esteban Gutierrez.

Stefano Coletti returned to action for Scuderia Toro Rosso, ending up with a best time 5.628s off the pace. He hands over the car to Kevin Ceccon for the rest of the day.

Mirkko Bortolotti was another to return to F1 action after two years away, driving for Williams as a prize for winning the F2 title. He ended the morning eighth fastest after improving on his final lap.

Nathanael Berthon had his first significant run in the HRT. He completed nine laps yesterday afternoon, but added a further 36 this morning. He ended up just five-hundredths of a second faster than Virgin's Charles Pic, with Renault debutant Jan Charouz a further eight-tenths behind.

Sam Bird was slowest on the timesheets, but spent the morning focusing on evaluation work, including running experimental exhausts for 2012 as Mercedes worked to understand the loss of performance from new regulations designed to outlaw blown diffusers.

Morning times:

Pos  Driver               Team                   Time     
 1.  Jean-Eric Vergne     Red Bull-Renault       1m38.917s
 2.  Jules Bianchi        Ferrari                1m41.347s
 3.  Olivier Turvey       McLaren-Mercedes       1m42.346s
 4.  Max Chilton          Force India-Mercedes   1m42.618s
 5.  Alexander Rossi      Lotus-Renault          1m44.381s
 6.  Esteban Gutierrez    Sauber-Ferrari         1m44.531s
 7.  Stefano Coletti      Toro Rosso-Ferrari     1m44.545s
 8.  Mirkko Bortolotti    Williams-Cosworth      1m46.076s
 9.  Nathanael Berthon    HRT-Cosworth           1m46.299s
10.  Charles Pic          Virgin-Cosworth        1m46.348s
11.  Jan Charouz          HRT-Cosworth           1m47.159s
12.  Sam Bird             Mercedes GP            1m47.624s

 

[Templar Wizard]

Far too many armchair experts on this year's ferrari and giving Costa too much.
the writing was on the wall very early on for this years car. we all know Ferrari went very early into 2012's car, because the Costa F150 just wasnt good enough. it was put to bed and so was he.

next year there is no excuses, they are rejigged the design team. removed the ones who have failed. lets see if Pat Fry can do what he says he can..

2012 Avanti Fer, AVANTI!!!

 

[brotkasten]

But you know what? Go ahead and be pessimistic or let other people bash. It'll make it all the more glorious when Ferrari pull out a winning car. I'll be there to say I supported them. What will you say?

That's exactly what I'm going for. Good to know that you finally understood me.

 

[Xun]

How to Build...A Super Car will be on BBC Two this sunday.

It'll be focusing on the McLaren MP4-12C so it should be a pretty good insight into McLaren!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00lssmn

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15701284