RomanticHeroX
Member
You just have to look, like, 2 pages back and see this isn't true. According to this thread, any success Vettel sees is entirely because of luck, Newey and the car.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Formula 1 2012 Season |OT2| WHY AREN'T YOU WATCHING THIS SEASON?!
- Thread starter Leunam
- Start date
You just have to look, like, 2 pages back and see this isn't true. According to this thread, any success Vettel sees is entirely because of luck, Newey and the car.
You really should read some posts in this thread or on other forums.
Since i was not really on forums during the Shumi days, i wonder if people credited his performance to the over dominant Ferrari car or not.
The guy could win in an HRT with a blindfold and some people would still say its all luck.
But hey when its Alonso or someone else its sheer performance from the driver.
For any other driver to say that Vettel is faster than they are as a racer?!?! While he's winning? That's giving up, which is why the opinions of the other drivers don't really mean anything. There is no magic, you either win and get your name in the history books or you complain about the guy who's winning.
RomanticHeroX
Member
Oh, absolutely. The irrational Vettel hate isn't surprising, though that doesn't make it less obnoxious. People hate whoever is winning, and if it's a dominant performance they hate it even more. People loathed Schumi in the day, but now he's well loved. It's the same with Alonso, after two championships people hated him but now that he's challenging Vettel he gets love.
All the while hamilton and alonso are hyping each other up.
I'm not saying they are not great drivers. I mean they are the one of the best drivers of their generation. But i think Vettel is right up there as well.
No senna but still.
Hmm, nvm than. I'll just accept it and move on.
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/286811/kubica-to-compete-with-world-rally-citroen/
Doesn't really matter if he comes back to F1, which I doubt, I'm so glad he can still do what he loves and live a normal life after pretty much losing his hand and being so close to death. Massive respect that he still has the guts to push these cars. Always imagined me rooting him to a world title someday.
Doesn't really matter if he comes back to F1, which I doubt, I'm so glad he can still do what he loves and live a normal life after pretty much losing his hand and being so close to death. Massive respect that he still has the guts to push these cars. Always imagined me rooting him to a world title someday.
Schumi did have a Mahoosive car advantage at times and a second seat driver who had 'get out of the way' line wrote in their contracts. Alonso also got very lucky as well early on but nothing has yet to touch what vettel has got in return for selling his soul, a newey designed car that for three years on the trot has been stupidly quick and mostly reliable, the guy used to specialise in glass cannons combined with reliability or other drivers consistently knocking his main rivals out.
Personally Alonso or Hamilton would be my drivers of the season and either having the title would be a fair result, but it looks a petulant child with mediocre racing skills is going to get his third title solely due to newey having a good run.
Psychotext
Member
They have no choice because they finished so closely in a hard fought season. If Alonso said that Massa was crap, you'd pretty much have to believe him. Same if Schumacher said Barrichello was crap. However, when the results show that someone finished on virtually the same points as you (or beat you slightly) then you're going to look pretty stupid if you say they're anything other than a great driver. Because if they're not a great driver, or one of the best, you sure as shit aren't either.
With that said, even if Vettel eventually beats Alonso or Hamilton in equal machinery I doubt he'd be given credit by a lot of the louder Alonso / Hamilton fans. You'll just get the same old conspiracy theories where the team is screwing their driver over in favour of a teammate.
Thankfully though, not every F1 fan is mental (see dalin80's "petulant child with mediocre racing skills" post as a minor example) and most can recognise that Vettel would certainly make the top 5 drivers on the grid, if not the top three. As for you Omiee, if you really want to feel persecuted as a Vettel fan, go try and be one on the PlanetF1 forums. Then you'll really see some hatred.
In the future? I'm pretty sure that's one of the stipulations of posting in this thread since the beginning. I'm sure at least in OT1 it was.
You're new here, aren't you?
A a huge Vettel fan I'm still gutted that Webber didn't get the WDC in 2010. He shouldn't have gone mountain biking. In some ways I think Vettel deserved the win due to a bunch of failures outside of his control, but I really like Webber. He's slogged through formula 1 for years and finally gets the fastest car on the grid... and gets Vettel for a teammate.
Wooow, i dont even know what to say to that.
Formula 1 is a team sport. No driver could ever win the championships without a fast car, a good pit crew and good strategy. Not to forget a good designer and team behind him.
Webber is in a newey car. Cant see him delivering a 2011 like performance yet he was in the same car.
That i agree on. 2010 was really his year to do it.
But if he did not crash in some of the races and have failures like korea, vettel would have had sealed the championship much earlier.
Alonso was in a team where massa was just his back up. Webber and Vettel were actually fighting for the championship in 2010.
The way it was done almost seemed like a challenge, so it really wouldn't surprise me.
Psychotext
Member
Looks like more of a tilt than a flex. Not sure what advantage that would be either.
The idea of the flexi wing is that both ends would be pushed much closer to the ground for additional downforce. That looks like it would just wobble all over the place.
The idea of the flexi wing is that both ends would be pushed much closer to the ground for additional downforce. That looks like it would just wobble all over the place.
Tip of that nose is made of rubber!
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
If the the wing mounts are affected by that area of the nose, then the whole wing would get lower to the ground as the nose flexes at high speed.
It might just be the very tip though, in order to try and make some sort of gain from the camera mount.
No, Americans like to pretend that nobody curses in real life on TV.
Button's race was in some of the worst conditions we've seen in modern F1. He went through the pits six or seven times (including a drive-through for colliding with Hamilton), his supernatural pace during that race relied on him getting the right heat etc into the tyres and not placing a wheel even slightly off the dry line the entire race (ala Vettel on the last lap). Sure DRS is powerful at Canada, but are you trying to suggest that it isn't at Abu Dhabi?
To claim that Vettel's race wasn't lucky is just silly. I cannot fathom how you are still ignorant to how much luck Vettel has had over the last three years.
Vettel had to over take the whole grid twice to get to third place, in dry conditions, with two safety cars. Button had to do the same thing in wet conditions.
You don't win the title without luck swinging your way, even if it's the smallest bit of luck, but Vettel has had truckloads of luck.
Psychotext
Member
In fairness, only the Mclarens had been set up for a wet race that weekend. It was a ballsy decision (which cost them in qualifying) but it was clearly paying off big time as Hamilton and Button had MASSIVE pace in the race. Unfortunately though Hamilton decided to take that massive pace and stick it into the side of Button.
That's not taking away from what he managed of course, but you could clearly see how much more downforce they had on the cars by their poor top speeds in qualifying (316kph for Button vs 324kph for the fastest, and 320kph for the Red Bull). Even Whitmarsh questioned going with the bigger wing as a smaller wing would end up suiting them far better if the race ended up dry.
It was actually a fairly similar situation all told in the end I guess. Vettel and Button both had extremely fast cars for the race and both made mistakes that under any other circumstances would have cost them in a major way.
That's not taking away from what he managed of course, but you could clearly see how much more downforce they had on the cars by their poor top speeds in qualifying (316kph for Button vs 324kph for the fastest, and 320kph for the Red Bull). Even Whitmarsh questioned going with the bigger wing as a smaller wing would end up suiting them far better if the race ended up dry.
It was actually a fairly similar situation all told in the end I guess. Vettel and Button both had extremely fast cars for the race and both made mistakes that under any other circumstances would have cost them in a major way.
Luck that they had a fuel pressure drop and he started from the back of the grid? Luck that he had 2 alternator failures this year? Lucky guy. Luck that in 2010 he had 3 mechanical issues that kept him out of the points he was otherwise guaranteed.
Lucky guy. Kid can drive. He's the faster person on the grid and gets paid the same as his stablemate webber even though he has 2 world championships under his belt. I wonder if Alonso would be willing to take a 20 million a year pay cut to race with newey. How about hamilton taking a 10 million pay cut to race with newey. The kid is his own manager and made the decision to win. He's doing so and his stats and records stand at the age of 25 as one of the greats even if he stopped racing tomorrow.
I'm not downplaying Vettel's ability at all. You'd be a fool to say he isn't an incredible driver, but to argue he hasn't been at all lucky compared to his competitors? Foolishness.
I'd pull up a list of 'lucky' instances, but I've done it too many times over the last couple of years and I simply can't be bothered to argue this anymore. There isn't even a dead horse to beat anymore, this stick is just making a hole in the ground now.
I'm not gonna take sides on this whole Vettel thing, but to say someone has been luckier than all the other drivers over a three year period is just silly. Luck is random. In the long run, luck evens out. Doing better than others over a three year period simply can't be attributed to luck.
Vettel is no luckier than other drivers. Again, he is easily in the top 3 drivers of the current field, and currently has the best chassis under him. Terrific driver + the best chassis = nigh unbeatable combo.
mclaren777
Member
The race was saved by the fact that Vettel didn't lose his lead in the championship. Otherwise, I'm really bummed that Lewis didn't win. Crossing my fingers for Austin now.
Also...
Also...
Dropped one. Could've been worse! Webber DNF was a fucking killer.Happily everyone sucked, so I lost no places, LOL.
That he's with Newey is luck enough. Looking back on Schumacher, you would only ever think of him. But in the future, I have a feeling that if we look back on this particular era, it'll be Vettel and Newey in near equal measure.
Blown diffuser. Easier for someone with only a few years of F1 to adapt to it than someone with over a decade in the sport.
RomanticHeroX
Member
That's just wrong, the Schumi era wouldn't have been possible without Ross Brawn, Jean Todt and Rory Byrne. Byrne was in fact the most successful designer in F1 history until Newey overtook him with the past two championships.
Myoclonic Jerk
Member
Is Adrian Newey gay? Serious Q
i think he is married.
i read somwhere his wife does not want to move outside of england
RomanticHeroX
Member
In all the elements that made Schumi so great, I think his ability to build success around him is the most overlooked. The deal he got from Ferrari was that they would allow him to build the team as he wanted, and he took the chance and surrounded himself with the best people in the sport (lots of them from Benetton). Schumi did so much more than just drive the cars he was given, he transformed Ferrari into the unstoppable team they were for half a decade. I think he would do well now to go into team management, but I don't know that he would really be interested in making an amazing car and then letting someone else step into it.
brotkasten
Member
In case some of you missed it, today starts the young drivers test at Abu Dhabi:
McLaren and Red Bull get to test new parts, while Ferrari is nowhere to be seen.
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/286845/drivers-take-to-the-track-in-abu-dhabi/
McLaren and Red Bull get to test new parts, while Ferrari is nowhere to be seen.
RomanticHeroX
Member
If only Nicolas Prost had came up in time to be around with Bruno Senna.
Memories.
Business
Member
Yet everyone in the grid would still swap cars with him anytime, so can't be that dramatic. You make it sound as if he has to defy all odds to win, and I think we could agree he and his team mate have been in the best position out of any driver on the grid to get wins... in the past 3.5 years.
With that I'm not saying Vettel just wins because he drives a RedBull, I think he is very talented but I also think there are a handful of drivers on the current grid that would have achieved as much as him if they have been in his position. To crown him as one of the greats and celebrate his statistics as proof of it is a bit foolish in my opinion.
Yup, it's why he keeps turning down Ferrari's very lucrative offers.
Gary Paffett is McLaren's third/test/reserve driver (also British), he just lost out on the DTM world title this year by a few points.
1 Kevin Magnuessen (McLaren), 1:42.651
2 Antonio Felix da Costa (Red Bull), 1:42.717
3 Gary Paffett (McLaren), 1:43.407
4 Robin Frijns (Sauber), 1:43.775
5 Nicolas Prost (Lotus), 1:44.194
6 Luiz Razia (Toro Rosso), 1:44.691
7 Giedo van der Garde (Caterham), 1:45.936
2 Antonio Felix da Costa (Red Bull), 1:42.717
3 Gary Paffett (McLaren), 1:43.407
4 Robin Frijns (Sauber), 1:43.775
5 Nicolas Prost (Lotus), 1:44.194
6 Luiz Razia (Toro Rosso), 1:44.691
7 Giedo van der Garde (Caterham), 1:45.936
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
Ma Qing Hua to race for HRT in 2013 according to Chinese media.
Added laps.
If they get money from that they might stop being that eye-sore, right?
Big Takeover
Member
That's not a legitimate argument in motor racing. A. because it's purely hypothetical, and B. because it's applicable to any winning car. You can't just use that argument against a driver you don't care for. The results are the results - it's the only objective measurement we have.
Adrian Newey has been a genius ever since he showed up in F1 20 years ago. If Vettel wins this year, I think this will be Adrian's 9th WDC. Prost, Mansell, Hakka, which one of these guys should we knock down next because they also won in a dominant Newey car?
It's just a stupid way to look at factual history. You might as well start wondering how many GPs Charles Pic would have won if his car had laser beams.
Business
Member
Everyone can understand the numbers, we are postng here for all the rest you dismiss. I never said I knew for a fact this would be like this or like that, I just gave my opinion, as valid as yours if you care to give one besides telling me about the results I already know.
This needs to be added to the 2014 regs.
ROFL!
http://wtf1.co.uk/makes-sense-f1-drivers-as-my-little-pony-characters/
I'm just showing that luck goes both ways. He makes 10 million a year and drives a newey car. Alonso makes 30 and drives for ferrari. Hamilton made 20 million and drove for McLaren. They should put their money where their mouth is and take Webber's seat. Senna would have done it. Prost would have done it. They and their fans can bitch all they want but they're making 2-3 times what Vettel makes. Who they race for is their decision.
brotkasten
Member
Similar threads
- Locked