Yes, hence why I would be in favour of a change to make the tyres more physically durable, safety and all that. I don't think the performance characteristics should be changed at all.
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The Formula 1 2013 Season |OT| End of the Webber Era
- Thread starter Leunam
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Yes, hence why I would be in favour of a change to make the tyres more physically durable, safety and all that. I don't think the performance characteristics should be changed at all.
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
Orange is faster than all other colours, how do you not know this?
Myoclonic Jerk
Member
PdotMichael
Banned
Pirelli says it can bring boring processions back to F1 if asked
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107415
"It is a bit bizarre - unless you all want us to give tyres to Red Bull to help them win the championship, which appears to be the case.
"I think it is pretty clear. There is one team who will benefit from a change and that is them."
It's kind of cute how they play the Red Bull card while ignoring Mercedes completly. With some more robust tires they would be more than a serious contender for the title, the two poles of Rosberg are a good evidence that they have the speed. And it shouldn't be the job of a supplier to make the F1 more interesting and exciting.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107415
"It is a bit bizarre - unless you all want us to give tyres to Red Bull to help them win the championship, which appears to be the case.
"I think it is pretty clear. There is one team who will benefit from a change and that is them."
It's kind of cute how they play the Red Bull card while ignoring Mercedes completly. With some more robust tires they would be more than a serious contender for the title, the two poles of Rosberg are a good evidence that they have the speed. And it shouldn't be the job of a supplier to make the F1 more interesting and exciting.
I propose the removal of the use both tyres rule, the creation of new tyres that last 33% of a race when being run right on the edge, and some magical way of cleaning up the wake from cars. Perhaps pixie dust.
That way if the teams want to tiptoe around to make them last 50% of the race then great, but they'll be slow.
That way if the teams want to tiptoe around to make them last 50% of the race then great, but they'll be slow.
brotkasten
Member
They didn't want to spend the money for the tyres.
F1 is far more of a 'quickest car & driver combination' than it was in 2005, thus I merge fastest and best packages into one, because generally now they tend to be one in the same.
In 2005, sure I agree. But those issues were McLaren's fault directly, not because of a third-party. I'm not saying Pirelli are 100% at fault, but more so than, say, Bridgestone 2010.
Of course the tyres would need managing, but the point I was trying to make was that Pirelli has gone too far. How many times have we heard on the broadcast radio "we need you to look after X tyre a bit better please" compared to "these times are good, let's keep pushing for the next 10 laps"?
PdotMichael
Banned
I think that's pretty accurate.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/13/s...lli-testing-failures-tires-spanish-grand-prix
"When we're going round doing laps three seconds slower than a GP2 car did in qualifying, and only six seconds quicker than a GP3 car did in the race, there's something wrong," the McLaren driver said.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/13/s...lli-testing-failures-tires-spanish-grand-prix
"When we're going round doing laps three seconds slower than a GP2 car did in qualifying, and only six seconds quicker than a GP3 car did in the race, there's something wrong," the McLaren driver said.
brotkasten
Member
How were Ferrari's and Lotus' times compared to the GP2 cars?
Psychotext
Member
It's hard to compare. What do you take, their average laptime?
For what it's worth, the quali lap was 1:28.706 for GP2 and the fastest lap of the race was 1:34.352.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
That's awesome!
Spotted this on Twitter:
Noble @NobleF1 2m
Pirelli is to make structural changes to tyres from Canadian GP to ensure 2/3 stop races. Elements of 2012/2013 design merged. Story soon
I think that Pirelli will only screw it up a bit more
Red Bull favoritism.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Sweet!
Myoclonic Jerk
Member
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107421
From Canadian GP Tyres are differentooo
Fuck you Pirellu
From Canadian GP Tyres are differentooo
Fuck you Pirellu
Myoclonic Jerk
Member
Spotted this on Twitter:
Noble @NobleF1 2m
Pirelli is to make structural changes to tyres from Canadian GP to ensure 2/3 stop races. Elements of 2012/2013 design merged. Story soon
I think that Pirelli will only screw it up a bit more
This is unbelievable. FIA clearly is Ferrari International Assistance. Oh wait...
Changing something that should be a constant throughout the season in the middle of a season is asking for trouble. Can't wait for Red Baby Racing to whine next year when Renault engines are worse than Mercedes and Ferrari engines. "We can't drive fast because of the engine. This is not racing, this is a circus. We should return to the old engines."
But Mateschitz and Mercedes together own 3 teams on the grid (and 2 of the 4 top teams) and that's why they won this battle against Pirelli. It's a shame because if it was Williams whining nobody would have cared one bit...
Mastah
Member
At the beginning Pirelli said tyres were fine and they would review them after Bahrain. After Bahrain they decided only to change hards, as the rest of compounds according to them was fine. On Sunday after the race in Spain they said potential changes would happen for British GP. One day later and we got the news it will be changed from Canada. All I can say is LOL.
I guess you're joking but just to clarify that the color change will happen after 2014 when they probably won't have Mercedes engines anymore.
Big Takeover
Member
Great news about the tires. They couldn't continue any longer with that embarrassment.
NHale, your tinfoil hat is blinding the shit out of my eyes.
NHale, your tinfoil hat is blinding the shit out of my eyes.
David Coulthard column: I want to see F1 drivers flat-out http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22512693
I wish I was rich enough to pay you for attending every race from now on.
Selective quoting there don't you think? He seems pretty torn
Dutch Gronk
Banned
If everybody in F1-GAF (besides Omie) chips in, we might be able to pay for him! No more Vettel wins ever!
brotkasten
Member
Only if he gets a GAF1 banner and signatures from all drivers.
That's fucking stupid. Drivers have never been pushing flat-out ever on these Pirelli tires, but DC only argues this now. I'm pretty sure he hasn't been saying this the past 3 seasons.
Anyway, if tires require 2-3 stops still, dirvers still won't be going flat-out.
Then the key is figuring out the delta between 2-3 stops and pushing to narrow that delta to a point where it's faster to push.
Losing 3-5 seconds a lap because of a tire or having to nurse a tire is BS. The issue is that it would be even slower to push 100% and have 5 stops due to how quickly the tires would disintegrate that and the fact that there's a limit to the number of tires they can use. They're stuck with 3 and 3 for qualifying and race.
these tires add extra challenge for drivers to be competitive, even if they can't achieve 100% speed their driving is far more interesting than just going all flat out on the accelerator pedal, let's see how skilled and complete drivers they are, not just a pole-to-win procession.
my opinion of course, can't wait to have my fair share of tin-foil hats pics replies.
my opinion of course, can't wait to have my fair share of tin-foil hats pics replies.
All the current tyres are doing is swinging the driver to car ratio further to the car. This isn't about 'lol best drivers can handle tyres', but which car destroys the tyres the least.
I'm still amazed people are defending the tyres Pirelli have said they got it wrong with. F1 fans are a fickle bunch.
How was Kimi with the crowd?
I'm not defending the Pirelli tyres, just that, in my personal and maybe wrong experience, I'm having more fun with these races watching drivers do more than ever, it's quite a challenge and I'm not surprised Alonso and Kimi, two drivers known as "complete packages", are getting away with these tires even managing to push here and there.
On the other hand, are cars running way slower ? definitely, and are the cars not being put to their ultimate test ? debatable, certainly some parts of the cars contribute to earlier tire degradation, so not only speed is what makes the machinery break a sweat. Of course if safety is not guaranteed then by all means change the tires' specs immediately.
brotkasten
Member
I'd rather see Alonso vs. Kimi in the championship fight.
I take back that "cars are much slower"
Spain GP, Barcelona
2011 - Winner: Vettel, Total Race Time 1:39:03.301
2013 - Winner: Alonso, Total Race Time 1:39:16.596 (2 tenths per lap slower, average)
13 seconds... considering in 2011 Vettel was being pushed by Hamilton to the very last lap and in 2013 Alonso was held back during the 1st stint by Rosberg and just cruised to the checkered flag for the last 15 laps. Also in 2011 the RBR blown-diffuser was in full effect.
Spain GP, Barcelona
2011 - Winner: Vettel, Total Race Time 1:39:03.301
2013 - Winner: Alonso, Total Race Time 1:39:16.596 (2 tenths per lap slower, average)
13 seconds... considering in 2011 Vettel was being pushed by Hamilton to the very last lap and in 2013 Alonso was held back during the 1st stint by Rosberg and just cruised to the checkered flag for the last 15 laps. Also in 2011 the RBR blown-diffuser was in full effect.
Very jealous, that's awesome man.
If the changes mean Red Bull running away I don't know what I'll think. Fuck this sport most likely.
2004 - Winner: Schumacher, Total Race Time 1:27:32.841
Comparing times from 2011 and 2013 isn't a good base. The teams progress and the cars get quicker over the winter breaks naturally:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107421
On that note, does anyone know if it's possible for a team to donate a 2012 car to Pirelli? Not that it'll make much difference for next year, but it would be better than their 2010 Renault.
brotkasten
Member
I actually mentioned this during the winter test. Pirelli has a really hard time to get a modern F1 car. They're not allowed to get one, because the tech in those cars is either too new and could be interesting for other teams or the developed tyre could possibly favor the team that donated/sold the car. They best the could get was a 2011 HRT.
He didn't say a word. Some woman was following him down the line of people handing him pieces of card which he was signing and handing out, and when he got to me near the end i handed him my hat instead, which he turned round in his hands whilst looking for a place to sign, so i turned it over for him and he signed the underside of the peak then handed it back to me
Even funnier is that Vettel made 4 pit stops in 2011 too. But back then nobody at Red Bull had problems with 4 pit stops. Now 4 pit stops according to Red Bull it's not racing.