brotkasten
Member
Just like Mark!
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The Formula 1 2013 Season |OT| End of the Webber Era
- Thread starter Leunam
- Start date
Just like Mark!
Word on Twitter this morning says that Michelin has been meeting the teams over the last few weeks.
Seeing as they said they wouldn't return to F1 if it was a single supplier series, can we take it that there could be a tyre war next year between Pirelli & Michelin?
Tyres for next year have to be finalised by September so decision needs to be made soon.
You never know Pirelli could come out with the best tyre if they were allowed to design one.
Typical Canadian GP weekend coming up too. Cool and wet and windy.
Seeing as they said they wouldn't return to F1 if it was a single supplier series, can we take it that there could be a tyre war next year between Pirelli & Michelin?
Tyres for next year have to be finalised by September so decision needs to be made soon.
You never know Pirelli could come out with the best tyre if they were allowed to design one.
Typical Canadian GP weekend coming up too. Cool and wet and windy.
Omg. That would be a megaton. I don't believe it though. I don't think the FIA will want two manufacturers. It would be better for the teams and for the audiences, but in the end the FIA has their own ideas about what makes an interesting championship. *cough*
How is it better for the audience, really? I get the aspect that the tyre-suppliers will have to ensure they're bringing their A game, but not only are we suddenly in the position where we can no longer "manufacture good racing tyres", to whatever extent that strategy has worked so far. Suddenly it'll be as much about durability and longevity as single-lap performance.
Not only that, but imagine half the field with a different tyre this year. Then suddenly Ferrari rocks, but is that because their car is good, their drivers rock, or the tyres are a full second faster around that track? The 2005 season sucked for me, much in large because Ferrari were still using Bridgestone, and they were not good tyres that season. The car was limited by the tyre, and you can't just turn that around. I don't think it was fair that Schumacher was out of the title bid due to the tyres that year. Then some teams might use the tyre better than others, and well, suddenly you just have another factor that's just immeasurable and will further make it impossible to say what's driver, what's team and what's tyre.
It's not appealing at all to me for that reason. I respect F1 as a team sport, and I think it's good to see teams working their way up. I'm not for a "level field" like in GP2. I like the development that's pushed by the teams because of it, and it brings interesting developments to the season. Driver should always be an important factor, and it's not really until we swap drivers like Hamilton and Schumacher that we really can see that Schumacher was top tier if Hamilton is top tier. But it's still just speculation. And that's fine.
But a tyre-war ontop of that? It doesn't look more spectacular if cars go a second faster per lap. We can't even control where the tyre situation will expand to. Maybe Michelin will come in and make super-durable tyres, so most teams revert to a 1 stop that are using it. So they'll lag around, while Pirelli users sprint around in 4 stints. Is that fun? Maybe? Maybe both will go to 1 stop, and somehow we get slower laps, but faster race time? Maybe we ruin overtaking? Now we have the marbling problem, we never had that before. Maybe you can't go out of the racing line as much with new tyres. Who knows. Pushing the development of tyres in a speed aspect yields little of spectacular races, so I don't see what we can benefit from it.
Not only that, but imagine half the field with a different tyre this year. Then suddenly Ferrari rocks, but is that because their car is good, their drivers rock, or the tyres are a full second faster around that track? The 2005 season sucked for me, much in large because Ferrari were still using Bridgestone, and they were not good tyres that season. The car was limited by the tyre, and you can't just turn that around. I don't think it was fair that Schumacher was out of the title bid due to the tyres that year. Then some teams might use the tyre better than others, and well, suddenly you just have another factor that's just immeasurable and will further make it impossible to say what's driver, what's team and what's tyre.
It's not appealing at all to me for that reason. I respect F1 as a team sport, and I think it's good to see teams working their way up. I'm not for a "level field" like in GP2. I like the development that's pushed by the teams because of it, and it brings interesting developments to the season. Driver should always be an important factor, and it's not really until we swap drivers like Hamilton and Schumacher that we really can see that Schumacher was top tier if Hamilton is top tier. But it's still just speculation. And that's fine.
But a tyre-war ontop of that? It doesn't look more spectacular if cars go a second faster per lap. We can't even control where the tyre situation will expand to. Maybe Michelin will come in and make super-durable tyres, so most teams revert to a 1 stop that are using it. So they'll lag around, while Pirelli users sprint around in 4 stints. Is that fun? Maybe? Maybe both will go to 1 stop, and somehow we get slower laps, but faster race time? Maybe we ruin overtaking? Now we have the marbling problem, we never had that before. Maybe you can't go out of the racing line as much with new tyres. Who knows. Pushing the development of tyres in a speed aspect yields little of spectacular races, so I don't see what we can benefit from it.
I agree. With the huge rule changes next year, F1 doesn't need another variable. Just decent tyres for all
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
Everyone loses in a tyre war.
Big Takeover
Member
I think it's more likely they'd be asking Michelin to reconsider their tire war, or bust stance.
As much as I hate watching these cars cruising, I'd take that over competing tire brands any day of the week. F1 needs to be a race of drivers and cars, not suppliers. Who makes the best tire is of absolutely no interest to anyone.
Would anyone even want to stay with Pirelli at this point? But, yeah, next season could be weird enough anyway, two tire suppliers would push it.
Bring back refueling, and stop making tyres that suddenly "die". It's time to realize that "fragile tyres making for more interesting racing" is not compatible with lugging around 200kg of fuel. Why the fuck are we advocating 'big difference' tyres? When one tyre is fast and doesn't last long, it's the exact same thing as refueling.
Well, for one thing, changing a tire is a bit less of a fire hazard than quickly refueling a car.
Besides Schumacher being a bad-ass while some fuel mist was burning on his car, when has refueling actually hurt someone? Yes, cars driving off with fuel hoses, and I'm sure there have been some.. wait, wasn't an entire garage burning last year?
I mean, when was refueling the cause of injury, besides the fuel-hose incidents?
Jezbollah
Member
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
The Williams garage fire was as a result of a faulty KERs unit.
There were numerous pit fires in the refuelling years, thankfully none resulted in serious injury. But that doesn't mean it's safe.
(Joss Verstappen)
Big Takeover
Member
If they were to bring back refueling, I'd like to see it done in the same manner they do it in sportscars - refuel first, then switch tires.
Why so early?
I usually make some early on just to make sure I at least have something in. It hasn't helped though as I'm 70th in the league.
AFAIK they never said that. They got asked by Pirelli to use the current car, otherwise the results wouldn´t have told Pirelli too much. And the rules for this kind of tests don´t forbid it.
Now isn´t this the Leo that is on Ferraris payroll to provide them with photos from competitors cars?
Regarding Michelin: sure, they want to come back. But they told FIA that they are unwilling to bring tyres that only hold for 20 laps. So I really don´t see this happening.
Wow. Such ignorance.
That's what everyone assumed at first. Here´s the rumor I reported a couple of days ago:
- where will James Allison go? He has a job block till the end of 2014 - but he could be bought out of this job block clause. Everyone assumed he´d go to FER, but as they are not paying, now the talk is he´d get Newey´s job at RBR after the 2014 season. Newey is said to lose the fun, as he expects next years races to be engine dependent, not car dependent.
Amazing pic from Spanish press of the damage to María de Villota helmet from her testing crash last year.
When you look at that helmet, and look at her face, you wouldn't think that she was the poor bugger wearing it. I mean sure, she's rocking the most fashionable eye patch ever, but the rest of her head is still attached.
It sounds so silly, but she was really lucky.
Amazing pic from Spanish press of the damage to María de Villota helmet from her testing crash last year.
Wow...thanks for the picture....
That helmet...
Big Takeover
Member
You'd never guess the person wearing that would still be with us. As horrible as it might be to lose your eye, she looks great, and came out of it about as best as one could hope for.
Psychotext
Member
With the modern suits (driver and team) there's actually very little risk, but refuelling is going for good.
http://www.fia.com/news/pirelli-and-mercedes
Mercedes/ pirelli go to tribunal. Case against ferrari closed
Also, fota fan forum about to start: http://www.fota.co/2013/06/05/fota-montreal-fans-forum/
Mercedes/ pirelli go to tribunal. Case against ferrari closed
Also, fota fan forum about to start: http://www.fota.co/2013/06/05/fota-montreal-fans-forum/
Big Takeover
Member
Being summoned to an international tribunal sounds only marginally more appealing than being summoned to an electric chair.
brotkasten
Member
I just love their Twitter account.
@Lotus_F1Team:
Bit of French speaking going on now; for those who need a translation, they said words... #FOTAForum #CanadianGP #F1
@Lotus_F1Team:
Bit of French speaking going on now; for those who need a translation, they said words... #FOTAForum #CanadianGP #F1
PdotMichael
Banned
The biggest problem were the unsafe releases and not the refuelling. There are many ways to solve this problem but the FIA prefers to have joke tires.
Me too. It was to be expected, that FIA is going to wash their hands off the thing.
The Ferrari case being closed means, the judges can only focus on Merc using the 2013 car. And they got the permission from Charlie to do so.
brotkasten
Member
I don't expect more than a fine for Merc.
I can't really see how you could fine Mercedes and not do anything more severe. I don't expect any punishment for Mercedes.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
If they had permission it would have been closed, the fact is the FIA said conditions to use the 2013 car weren't met, so therefore Mercedes conducted an illegal test. Ban them.
Giving the greenlight for other teams willing to cop the financial penalty to conduct their own in season tests, banning them is the only way to go.
Well, actually they said Pirelli didn´t meet the conditions. (which I think they did)
The possibilities range from a fine, docking points to a disqualification.
IF they would dock points, or f.i. have the drivers lose the Monaco results, it would get interesting. Remember Rosberg in Brazil ´83?
They could at least force them to attend the whole Bieber's concert in Singapore.
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2013/6/14630.html
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2013/6/14630.html
Good lord are you guys young... (Rosberg had his car pushed, and finished 2nd. They took this away from him - but other drivers didn´t move up.)
I guess they´d prefer waterboarding...