God, shut up you whining fucking maggots. The only reason a driver will have to drive slowly is because you fucked up designing a car for the regs.
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The Formula 1 2013 Season |OT| End of the Webber Era
- Thread starter Leunam
- Start date
God, shut up you whining fucking maggots. The only reason a driver will have to drive slowly is because you fucked up designing a car for the regs.
Of course they complain about it now, and not however long ago it was introduced as being the rules for 2014.
I honestly can't blame Ferrari for complaining about every little thing. Not that I agree with them, but considering how much they've been struggling the last few seasons, I'm sure they're at a loss for why they've fallen so much in terms of technical significance in F1. The frustration would probably drive many in Ferrari to want to blame everything except themselves. Lolz.
The best part of it is the whole inception effect of it where we have Alonso who goes a level deeper and always blames Ferrari and not himself.
Psychotext
Member
Meh. I see next year as a transition year.
I'm fully expecting one team to utterly Brawn it and make it a snoozefest to watch.
I'm fully expecting one team to utterly Brawn it and make it a snoozefest to watch.
Are we really giving out about Ferrari worrying about fuel, surely we as fans want the drivers to go all out racing and not have to turn down engine modes to save fuel. If I remember correctly a few drivers have been told over the past few years that they needed to save fuel.
Paddy Lowe will oversee further developments of this year's car, 2014 car is being in hands of Aldo Costa and his team.
Who will benefit the most from this move?
Hammer24, are there any infos about Ferrari 2014 engine and how it would cope against Mercedes one?
Who will benefit the most from this move?
Hammer24, are there any infos about Ferrari 2014 engine and how it would cope against Mercedes one?
"Save your tires, watch your fuel levels, don't touch the curbs, no more than one deviation from the racing line per lap, use DRS to overtake!"
Formula 1 my ass. WEC and it's prototypes are becoming the superior sport.
Psychotext
Member
Certainly far more interesting in terms of car development (and especially car development that relates to the cars we actually drive).
Some more bits about 2014 engines for anyone not paying attention
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108503
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108503
Drivers will be told they need to save fuel regardless though. Even when fuel was unlimited, you're still limited by what you choose to put in. If you go flat out and consume more fuel than the team planned for, you'll need to do an unscheduled pit stop. Without refueling it just changes the dynamics of that equation, but the equation was always there.
I'm not a huge fan of them removing refueling either, but Ferrari's complaint is silly considering how they knew about these arrangements beforehand, and they are in full control of their own engine development.
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
Yeah the fuel complaint is a total non-issue, what Ferrari are complaining about already exists, only recently people have been too distracted by drivers having to nurse tyres.
As someone else said earlier, it's unavoidable whether you refuel or not. There will always be management of something or other throughout the race, that's just how it is. If all you're interested in is balls-to-the-wall speed, go watch a drag race.
Some Pirelli news:
Canada spec tyres confirmed for Germany this weekend.
Hungary tyre will be 2012 construction with 2013 compound.
On Silverstone, they are blaming the teams and track:
Canada spec tyres confirmed for Germany this weekend.
Hungary tyre will be 2012 construction with 2013 compound.
On Silverstone, they are blaming the teams and track:
Teams have been running the tyres outside guidelines for a year now but its gotten even more extreme this year with the teams swapping the rear tyres around.
Some found they got better performance/life when switching the tyres over.
I know your always going to have to save some fuel, but I'm sure I remember once instance a driver being told really early on being told they had to start saving fuel, might have been Rosberg and you were thinking wtf. Its like the whole thing with tyres having to drive to a delta or you wreck them within the first few laps and your stuffed till the next tyre change
Better tyre wear and contact patch position as this puts the contact patch at the edge of the rim rather than the centre.
Full Statement from Pirelli
Gareth Bale
Member
Current Mercedes engine is quite thirsty and some suggest that Mercedes had some problems with their engine and exhaust configuration, so they burned more fuel. It seems they solved this problem.
Mercedes swapped tyres only in Monaco, as far as I know, before they introduced major upgrade package.
Mercedes swapped tyres only in Monaco, as far as I know, before they introduced major upgrade package.
Thanks. Seems like that strategy really blew up on some of the teams!
I'm so, so sorry. 
gutterboy44
Member
This season absolutely sucks. It is the season of Pirelli wins and losses not driver wins. I just want some pure racing again and stable tires.
So long Webber, you had a lot of potential early on but after throwing away your one shot at a championship in Korea you never recovered. Also, you will be missed during race starts. Your sublime ability to go backwards without fail always shaked things up. I wonder who he will bequeath his reverse launch gear to?
God damn was Alonso lucky to not get domed by that huge chunk of rubber. I wonder how much kinetic energy that would have put into his helmet and head?
So long Webber, you had a lot of potential early on but after throwing away your one shot at a championship in Korea you never recovered. Also, you will be missed during race starts. Your sublime ability to go backwards without fail always shaked things up. I wonder who he will bequeath his reverse launch gear to?
God damn was Alonso lucky to not get domed by that huge chunk of rubber. I wonder how much kinetic energy that would have put into his helmet and head?
...But since they all have the same tires, it's the drivers (and the cars) that make the difference, is it not?
I for one am enjoying this season thoroughly. For F1 fans, you folks sure seem to hate F1.
gutterboy44
Member
Of course the drivers have a impact but I prefer it when at the very least they are all racing balls to the wall and tire strategy is secondary if not third or fourth. Just listen to the radios this year. You almost never hear, "push push push!" it is all " go slower, my god save the tires!". They could also pretend that all curbs are lava for a few races and it would allow some drivers to shine but it is a blight on the sport. This weekend was laughable. I was getting flashbacks to the US GP during Michellen-Gate.
Fingers crossed that the Kevlar sets and YDT gets this season back on track.
Psychotext
Member
This weekend will be strange. Theoretically it'll mean different teams do better than usual, but it'll all be completely irrelevant a few weeks later as we'll have the old tyres back.
posted ?
'Alonso Could Have Died After Blow-out'
http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/8801953/-Alonso-Could-Have-Died-After-Blow-out-
awful, but it seems teams are trying to get their way around the tyres while making things worse than ever, more at the link
'Alonso Could Have Died After Blow-out'
http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/8801953/-Alonso-Could-Have-Died-After-Blow-out-
awful, but it seems teams are trying to get their way around the tyres while making things worse than ever, more at the link
Yeah, I wish we were back in a time were nothing had to be conserved. Qualifying balls-out on the quickest tyres, strategies involving fuel AND tyres... I loved that about Le Mans this year, actually seeing cars come in for a splash-and-dash, proper strategies that extend beyond deciding whether to make the tyres last for one or two stints.
Yeah, I've been thinking about that as well. Other than KERS, what else has there been recently that's supposedly for the benefit of road-going cars like F1 development is purportedly for. With WEC I can think of diesel and KERS (as in, an actual use for KERS rather than just as a boost to make it more "exciting").
Maybe it's partly justifying it to myself why I'm not as excited for it next year because Webber not competing shouldn't be the only reason
Dutch Gronk
Banned
Well, with that massive piece of rubber and all kinds of bits and pieces of the cars flying at high speed at his face, he could have been seriously hurt, Massa style.
But I agree that the teams are really trying to blow it all up even more to gain more leverage over Pirelli.
I don't know about that. Ralf Schumacher suffered a massive shunt at Indianapolis years ago, because Michelin's tires were suffering catastrophic failure through the short chute on the main oval. He could have easily broken his back or worse. He ended up missing a race or two IIRC, due to a massive contusion on his back.
Tire failure while pulling 4-5Gs around a corner is potentially-fatal. I don't think the teams are blowing this out of proportion at all. If that left rear tire blew out on a high-speed corner like Turn1 (Copse?), what kind of wild ride would that driver be a passenger for? I cringe to think about it. Anyway, no one was hurt, so live and learn. But I think the teams are justified in their ire. PEACE.
There has never been a year when drivers drove balls to the wall for whole races regularly. You guys are expecting something that never existed.
I think that 'old' tyres will be much like those used upcoming weekend
It's best that Webber is out for next seasons too. As if your energy recovery stuff dies as Webbers does regularly then you are totally fucked.
Don´t think so. I expect one engine to dominate - and the teams with said engine to be at one level.
I expect the Merc engine to be slightly the most powerful, and the least thirsty by a wide margin.
Mostly life, tyres lasted a lot longer when switched. Performance wasn´t the main reason.
Not really true. The engine isn´t more thirsty than the others. At the beginning of the season, they just calculated very tight, to have less weight onboard, and thus make up a little of the missing time. Now that the car gets better and better, they can put more fuel in.
SILVERSTONE STATS
- RAI did it, 25 consecutive races in the points
- VET DNF stopped his series after 14
- VET has 21 DNF. 6 of those were either in the lead, or fighting for the lead.
- before Silverstone, VET was the only pilot to drive every lap of this season
- RAI and HAM now lead this category with 492 of 493 laps (both overlapped once)
- RAI now the only one to get points in every race of the season
- after MCL series of 64 races in the points stopped in Canada, they didn´t get points for a 2nd time in a row - start of a new series?
- with 3 wins ROS is now the fourth placed German, together with HHF. RSC, MSC and VET have more.
- HAM pole was new track record - 8 thousands faster than VET in 2010
- HAM now the 5th driver over the 1000 points barrier (MSC 1566, ALO 1475, VAT 1186, BUT 1024, HAM 1002)
- RIC qualifying on P5 was a career best
- first time this year RAI lost a qualy duel to his team mate. First time he lost a qualy duel at Silverstone
- now only VET and HUL won all qualy duels
- 600th race for WIL brought no luck, finishing P11 and P12 they are still without points for the season
- 250th race for Pirelli, and no one even mentioned it among the exploding tyres
- 8th consecutive race with zero points for rookies
- comparison after eight races: ALO 2012 111points/ALO 2013 111points
- comparison after eight races: VET 2012 85points/VET 2013 132points
- ROS with 3 poles, still outdueled in qualy 5:3
- 3rd silver double pole of the year
- first time since 2007 without an RBR in the Silverstone front row
- SUT was very close to a podium finish, yet failed again. That's now 98 races without a podium. Only Pierluigi Martini (118) and Philippe Alliot (109) have more.
- MAS without a Silverstone podium in the 11th try, BUT in the 14th. Both have 87 podiums among them - but none in Silverstone
- MAs best starter of the year, made up 6 places in the first lap. Best is still MAL with 7 in Brazil 2012.
- like RAI before him (2003-2007), WEB had 5 consecutive Silverstone podiums
- ALO podium means: FER with 500 podiums in 859 races, ALO 150th finish in the points
- ALO 6th Silverstone podium, only MSC (7) has more
- qualifying on P9 was ALO worst since Italy 2012
- ALO 19th consecutive qualy outside of the front row. Never happened before, aside from his career start (18x Minardi, 1x Renault)
- first time in team history FOI was able to get points with both cars in three consecutive races
- aside from the start, both RBR drivers have never been overtaken on the Silverstone track for 5 consecutive years
PdotMichael
Banned
21 DNFs are an incredible amount of DNFs, espencially if the last DNF because of a racing accident was Turkey 2010 afaik.
In my opinion its one of the most sure signs, if a pilot is true elite status: his ability to avoid collisions, even when fighting side by side. When you see the likes of VET, ALO, RAI, HAM, BUT etc. go at it, that's like an artform all in itself.
marvelharvey
Member
Actually, I'm not sure if 21 is correct. On Sebastian's Wikipedia page there are only 18 DNFs, 9 of which were at Red Bull since 2009.
To compare:
2009-present DNFs
Webber 8
Hamilton 13
Alonso 8
Massa 8
Button 7
Maldonado 14 (and he wasn't even racing in 2009/2010 lol)
I counted Australia 2009 (13), Malaysia 2009 (15) and Italy 2012 (22) where he DNF, but got placed because of enough distance raced.
marvelharvey
Member
Ahha. And that kids, is why you shouldn't use Wikipedia to do your homework.
Whre are you getting that the Merc engine will have more power AND use less fuel "by a wide margin"? What is it about Merc that makes thme able to pull that off in the face of Renault and Ferrari?
As for the DNFs, looks like Hamilton got the shitty end of the stick in the last few years. Could do with seeing how many for each driver were out of their control (being tboned, engine exploding etc) and how many were derp moments.
I´m judging more by the fears uttered from other teams than by hard data - which isn´t to be had yet. Like I said the last time we discussed this - its still incredibly early.
RADIO PITLANE
- Pirelli contract to be extended by a year, all on the quiet
- FIA is forced to hold a call for bids on tyres in 2014 - but no one expects anything by this, as Pirelli has, also on the quiet, extended contracts with most teams well into 2018
- ever wanted to know what driving straight costs? Many teams had test prior to Silverstone in Idiada, where they tested new aerodynamics parts (and LOT the DDRS) while doing straight driving tests (which are allowed, before anyone asks). A day there costs from 23000 Euro. BTW, many think teams do way more there than allowed, as the track near Tarragona is hard to be seen into from outside
- Paddy Lowe first day in new uniform. Got asked, when he´ll take Brawns job. Answer: Whenever Brawn decides to quit. Is proud to work for a man now, who beat him several times in his career.
- BUY THE BOOK: Tyler Alexander is going to sell his book soon. As a man who was with MCL right from the start, his memories and pics will make this thing a must have!
- FOI still mad at DIR qualy penalty. Car was too light by 1.5 kgs. FOI wanted the car to be reweighted, now the scale all of a sudden showed 0.5 kgs more. So FOI insisted on DIR reweighting. Now DIR was 2kgs heavier - which would make the combo legal. But FIA did not accept, as DIR could have been drinking two liters of water in the meantime. Szafnauer joked, pointing to his tummy: wouldn´t have happened with me in the cockpit...
- Mateschitz stays loyal to WEB, he´ll continue to be a Red Bull pilot at Porsche
- Lauda pays 50 Euro bet to Dr Marko. He had bet, Merc wouldn´t get fined by the tribunal. Paid up now.
- WIL celebrated 600th race at the 599th race. The real one will be the German GP, where they´re going to put pics of all 691 workers on the cars. The Man himself said, that since WIL founding, 78 teams have either come, gone, or be renamed.
- Martin Brundle takes the bike to Nürburgring. Wants to do a classic tour, driving Silverstone-Nürburgring-Spa.
- three parties for ROS: birthday #1 on Thursday, birthday #2 on Saturday, race win on Sunday
- RAI new haircut was due to a lost bet. But he didn´t like it at all, so never removed his hat the full weekend.
- minute's silence in commemoration of Mark Robinson on Friday Evening in the Pitlane. Mark was the steward killed in Montreal.
- the press center in Silverstone leaks, badly. Some problem with the AC killed several laptops and smartphones, mostly on Saturday