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The Formula 1 2013 Season |OT| End of the Webber Era

As much as it pains me, I agree with Marko. Merc has clear 1 and 2. That's not to say RBR don't have some favouritism.

Multi 21 BS? If Seb can't even keep track of the radio codes he has no business being in the damn car.

They clearly told him not to attack Mark. It just seems a little strange to tell Mark "maintain the gap" and Seb "Stop being silly". Maybe they didn't televise them telling him to hold position.
 

Hackbert

Member
tumblr_mk5vehsXGp1rkdstpo1_500.jpg
 

Shaneus

Member
Man, I can't believe there's 14 points difference in the WDC now when it could've been bang-on even. I hope Mark becomes an even better man out of this and uses it to his advantage. I can't see Vettel handling this well at all. Three times WDC, but still as immature as ever, as indicated by his behavior both on and off track.

Ahahahaha. Fucking incredible.

Mark, love you.
 
Multi 21 is RBR's order for hold position. Even random GAFers knew it. Vettel can't hide behind ignorance, he was being a dick and the sad part is that Helmut will swoop in and save him from repercussions.

DC said what multi 21 is. He's been away for years, I am sure Seb didn't forget it.

I've gotta say, I've missed all this drama, things were far too amicable last season.

I thought drivers lost their characters, glad they still feel when someone steps on their toes.
 

Dead Man

Member
His reversal is really strange because both his body language and his actual conversations post-race leading up to and during the podium indicate that he knew he was going against team orders and he felt good about it. No one is going to buy the ignorance act. He should just admit that he took advantage of the situation and it was his bad. Either that or he should just not say anything and have nothing to apologize for. :p

Pretty much.
 

Shaneus

Member
Fuck team orders. Vettel did the right thing. Race for the win.
When the car you overtake is running on the lower performance setting? Not exactly sportsmanlike. If Webber didn't follow team orders either, he probably would've set fastest laps and Vettel wouldn't have been anywhere near him.

But hey, we all expected folk like you to come out of the woodwork with this, so it's not a surprise your attitude exists at all.
 

Deadman

Member
Button thinks he could have gotten a podium today, or at least fought for it. Says they would have done 1 stop less than the mercs and would have been racing them at the end.
 

Sane_Man

Member
When the car you overtake is running on the lower performance setting? Not exactly sportsmanlike.

But hey, we all expected folk like you to come out of the woodwork with this, so it's not a surprise your attitude exists at all.

It's not sportsmanlike to order it in the first place. If more racers stood up against the team on this we'd have much more interesting inter-team races, which all F1 fans would like to see.
 

DBT85

Member
As if anyone would believe that.

If they do the same thing when Rosberg is in front then well know.

It's not sportsmanlike to order it in the first place. If more racers stood up against the team on this we'd have much more interesting inter-team races, which all F1 fans would like to see.

Teams only need to deliberately slow down a pitstop and they are in control again.
 

Shaneus

Member
It's not sportsmanlike to order it in the first place. If more racers stood up against the team on this we'd have much more interesting inter-team races, which all F1 fans would like to see.
What, and risk both cars running out of fuel or tyres, getting zero points? RBR want whats best for the constructors title, and that's NOT having two cars taken out by either mechanical failure or idiotic driving by a teammate.
 

Deadman

Member
Everyone seems to be ignoring the article posted on the last page where webber did this and saw nothing wrong with it.



I can't remember the circumstances of this race but Mark as disobeyed team orders before.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsp...h-grand-prix-podium-place-20110711-1h9co.html

Still annoyed with Vettel though. The one time he cops team orders, he ignores them.

"Of course I ignored the team because I wanted to try and get a place. Seb was doing his best, I was doing my best. I wasn't going to crash with anyone."
 

Sane_Man

Member
What, and risk both cars running out of fuel or tyres, getting zero points? RBR want whats best for the constructors title, and that's NOT having two cars taken out by either mechanical failure or idiotic driving by a teammate.

Teams may want that, but why should fans give a fuck what they want? We want to see exciting races, rivalries, "bad guys", controversy, and so on. This is perfect.
 

fuenf

Member
If they do the same thing when Rosberg is in front then well know.

I meant Red Bull. They can talk about it all they want but today and the last 3 seasons speak for themselves. The only time the drivers are equal is when Webber is in front / leading the WDC. ;)
 

duckroll

Member
I hate team orders with regard to position. I think it's bullshit. But this isn't a case of a driver "rebelling" against team orders in the name of sportsmanship. It is a driver who happily agrees with the system the team has put in place before the race, and believes in team orders as long as it benefits him. This is not really a victory for sportsmanship. :p

If we're talking about a driver who openly speaks out against team orders, and makes it clear to his team and his team mate that he will not play along with any of these instructions, and then puts his money where his mouth is during the race, I don't think anyone would think less of him. Any team would probably fire such a driver though. :p
 

Shaneus

Member
This is how it will be seen:
dOC5RIy.png


Both running on the same engine settings though, I bet.

Teams may want that, but why should fans give a fuck what they want? We want to see exciting races, rivalries, "bad guys", controversy, and so on. This is perfect.
Not when one driver does it and one doesn't. It would've been exciting to see Webber come from fifth to take the victory after last week, pretty sure everyone here (bar a few, obviously) would've thought it was a good race.
 

Business

Member
Fuck team orders. Vettel did the right thing. Race for the win.

No he didn't do the right thing.

What I feel though is IF Webber got beaten fairly on the track maybe he should also look a bit at himself for why he didn't win this one, Vettel is prick that will stab you on the back, but also someone that has been quicker than you again. If Webber's car got gimped on a more conservative setting because they were sure Vettel wouldn't attack then I think it's ok to call Vettel a cheater.
 

Dead Man

Member
It's not sportsmanlike to order it in the first place. If more racers stood up against the team on this we'd have much more interesting inter-team races, which all F1 fans would like to see.

Hi, you must be new to team automobile racing. When you have two cars running next to each other, it is common to tell them to stop racing each otehr after the final pit stop. This is not new, it is not unusual, and it is done for the preservation of the cars and the team points.

Ask any team whoese driveres just ran into each other what they think of the performance of said drivers.

The team mates raced each other for 50 odd laps. It's not exactly being denied to anyone.
 
When the car you overtake is running on the lower performance setting? Not exactly sportsmanlike. If Webber didn't follow team orders either, he probably would've set fastest laps and Vettel wouldn't have been anywhere near him.

But hey, we all expected folk like you to come out of the woodwork with this, so it's not a surprise your attitude exists at all.

Told you so.

So, Vettel will have lost a LOT of fans over that. Seriously, what a self-entitled little fucking prick.

Of course, I'm relishing it. Hopefully Horner gives the victory to Webber to shut him up. For the lols.
Oh please, he won't lose anything. That was right in line with the behavior of his fans.

;)
 

McNum

Member
You know who's profiting from all this? Alonso. He wrecked his front wing and drove past the pit entrance, ending with the wing shattering and him retiring. And that moment of stupidity gets no talk after the race.

First of all, it was the F1 amateur pitstop power hour today. Starring Force India, McLaren, and Lewis Hamilton. One could argue hat Hamilton dodged a bullet by remembering not to park at McLaren.

Secondly, the Mercedes team order. Rosberg probably could have passed, but he didn't because he's a professional. I bet he'll want some repayment of sorts behind the scenes, but he's professional enough to keep it there... And good on Hamilton for not really liking it either.

But that would still have been enough to be this race's big talking point if it wasn't for the Red Bull drama. I'm no fan of team orders, but when one is given, you follow it, and complain about it behind the scenes. Like Rosberg. You don't take needless risks and take advantage of your team mate thinking that the team order is something both drivers will keep to. I don't think we've heard the last of this one, it may be quieted down come China, but it'll only take one more slight, perceived or real, for this to flare up all over again. And it'll be glorious drama once more.

I mean, Alonso can just go back to the team and go "My bad, sorry." and it's over and done. Then he gets to point and laugh like the rest of us. And post a snarky response on Twitter. At least Alonso only screwed Alonso today.
 

duckroll

Member
Teams may want that, but why should fans give a fuck what they want? We want to see exciting races, rivalries, "bad guys", controversy, and so on. This is perfect.

That's pretty narrow minded. I watch F1 because it's a team sport, not just because it is racing. I'm not interested in watching races where drivers race in stock vehicles just to see who is "fastest" in a level playing field. F1 is about more than just a driver on a team, but it's about matching excellent drivers with excellent teams which can support the drivers with the right technology and advice during a race.
 

Dead Man

Member
Everyone seems to be ignoring the article posted on the last page where webber did this and saw nothing wrong with it.





"Of course I ignored the team because I wanted to try and get a place. Seb was doing his best, I was doing my best. I wasn't going to crash with anyone."

Well, owning up to it makes it a bit different in the first place.
 

Dead Man

Member
You know who's profiting from all this? Alonso. He wrecked his front wing and drove past the pit entrance, ending with the wing shattering and him retiring. And that moment of stupidity gets no talk after the race.

First of all, it was the F1 amateur pitstop power hour today. Starring Force India, McLaren, and Lewis Hamilton. One could argue hat Hamilton dodged a bullet by remembering not to park at McLaren.

Secondly, the Mercedes team order. Rosberg probably could have passed, but he didn't because he's a professional. I bet he'll want some repayment of sorts behind the scenes, but he's professional enough to keep it there... And good on Hamilton for not really liking it either.

But that would still have been enough to be this race's big talking point if it wasn't for the Red Bull drama. I'm no fan of team orders, but when one is given, you follow it, and complain about it behind the scenes. Like Rosberg. You don't take needless risks and take advantage of your team mate thinking that the team order is something both drivers will keep to. I don't think we've heard the last of this one, it may be quieted down come China, but it'll only take one more slight, perceived or real, for this to flare up all over again. And it'll be glorious drama once more.

I mean, Alonso can just go back to the team and go "My bad, sorry." and it's over and done. Then he gets to point and laugh like the rest of us. And post a snarky response on Twitter. At least Alonso only screwed Alonso today.

Yeah, good post. Alonso must be throlled with this LOL
 

fuenf

Member
Secondly, the Mercedes team order. Rosberg probably could have passed, but he didn't because he's a professional. I bet he'll want some repayment of sorts behind the scenes, but he's professional enough to keep it there... And good on Hamilton for not really liking it either.

I don't know if we should really buy Hamilton's act. I mean couldn't he have let Nico through? It's not like the team ordered him fight back like he did.
 

Sane_Man

Member
Hi, you must be new to team automobile racing. When you have two cars running next to each other, it is common to tell them to stop racing each otehr after the final pit stop. This is not new, it is not unusual, and it is done for the preservation of the cars and the team points.

Ask any team whoese driveres just ran into each other what they think of the performance of said drivers.

The team mates raced each other for 50 odd laps. It's not exactly being denied to anyone.

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I really don't care what most teams do, or what the status quo in regard to this is. I like Vettel, I like Webber. If either of them did this to each other I'd support them. The sooner team orders fuck off, the sooner inter-team rivalries get interesting which is better for the sport. If the governing body won't enforce this then I am happy to see a racer rebel against it in any way possible, even if it's not "sportsmanlike".
 

Juicy Bob

Member
I don't think 'hold position' team orders are bad. Especially compared to 'switch position' orders. I just think that if I was a team boss, I'd enforce those orders with about five laps to go, not just after the final pit stops.
 

Shaneus

Member
So, this last bit with Kravitz... does that mean I shouldn't expect any more Webber/RBR interviews etc.?


PS. Three fucking weeks. Ugh. This is going to be painful. At least there'll be plenty of mulling and discussion both internally and in the media until the next round.

Edit: Fuck, STR 10k Euros fine for unsafe release. That will hurt.
 
I don't know if we should really buy Hamilton's act. I mean couldn't he have let Nico through? It's not like the team ordered him fight back like he did.

Well, it's easy for Hamilton to play the fair play card because he did nothing, Brown did the "dirty" work for him.

Not saying that Hamilton wouldn't follow the team orders though.
 
I suppose all of the people defending Vettel are also going to be blaming RBR engineers when his engine blows up/fails because it has been overstressed.
 
Hi, you must be new to team automobile racing. When you have two cars running next to each other, it is common to tell them to stop racing each otehr after the final pit stop. This is not new, it is not unusual, and it is done for the preservation of the cars and the team points.

Ask any team whoese driveres just ran into each other what they think of the performance of said drivers.

The team mates raced each other for 50 odd laps. It's not exactly being denied to anyone.

And how would you explain the "drama" about Hamilton and Rosberg? It wasn't really obvious for Rosberg to hold back after the last pitstop.
 

Dead Man

Member
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I really don't care what most teams do, or what the status quo in regard to this is. I like Vettel, I like Webber. If either of them did this to each other I'd support them. The sooner team orders fuck off, the sooner inter-team rivalries get interesting which is better for the sport. If the governing body won't enforce this then I am happy to see a racer rebel against it in any way possible, even if it's not "sportsmanlike".

You need to understand the difference between team orders and hold position orders. And how exactly do you propose the governing body enforce something? The reason team orders are legal is mainly becuause there is no way to enforce a ban on them.

And how would you explain the "drama" about Hamilton and Rosberg? It wasn't really obvious for Rosberg to hold back after the last pitstop.

What do I have to explain? I think it was the wrong call to hold Nico back, I think Nico did the right thing in respecting the call. I can understand why Merc made the call, I think it was the wrong one though.
 
You need to understand the difference between team orders and hold position orders. And how exactly do you propose the governing body enforce something? The reason team orders are legal is mainly becuause there is no way to enforce a ban on them.

Fernando is faster than you.
 
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