Support NeoGAF

[duckroll]

If only vettel had followed team orders! None of this would have happened!

If only:

- Vettel had followed team orders
- Rosberg was allowed to pass Hamilton
- Ferrari didn't fuck Alonso up
- McLaren pit crews were competent
- Force India had more reliable cars

The list never ends! People will kill each other over something! Anything! Lol.

 

[Ark]

I can understand Mercedes' decision, I don't necessarily agree with it, but I can understand it.

I just hope Hamilton returns the favour at some point during the rest of the year if the opportunity comes up.

 

[kharma45]

Fun enough GP to watch, just finished the BBC highlights.

Alonso firstly, fuck me. Whoever decided it was best for him to stay out needs a severe fucking slap on the wrists, arguably one of the worst decisions in recent years from a team.

Webber did a bit of a Schumacher against Barichello on Vettel on the pit straight I thought, pushed him extremely close to the wall on lap 46.

I'll probably need to watch it again but it did look like Mark squeezed him. Edit - Just saw it again, not as bad as I thought, Vettel should've have been going for that gap maybe.

What Vettel did was a cunt move no doubt about it, directly disobeyed the team but at the end of the day we'd have all probably did the same to win, or at least I would have. Rosberg must be commended for doing as he was told staying behind Hamilton, I thought he would've done the same thing that Vettel did and just go past.

Force India could've had a very strong result today so pretty miffed for them over whatever has buggered them over in the pits.

Another good result from Bianchi too.

 

[Certinty]

Sorry if already posted but saw this online and it's golden:

 

[Nevasleep]

Heh, good for Vettel, feel sorry for Webber though.
Rosberg should have gone for Hamilton too.

They are racing drivers, not retail workers.

 

[pants]

I can understand Mercedes' decision, I don't necessarily agree with it, but I can understand it.

I just hope Hamilton returns the favour at some point during the rest of the year if the opportunity comes up.

Holding Rosberg back served no tactical purpose, in fact it stunted a potential bigger points tally, whats understandable about this?

 

[kharma45]

Rosberg wasn't going to catch the RBR's at that stage of the race.

 

[duckroll]

I think the biggest fear Mercedes had was probably that if Rosberg did continue to make a go at Hamilton, that Hamilton would then have to defend his position aggressively because he wasn't going to roll over and give it up. That could in turn have ruined Hamilton's race when it came to the fuel, and the team would have lost more points overall, plus Hamilton would blame the team for the fuel issue in the first place.

 

[Adamm]

What Vettel did was a cunt move no doubt about it, directly disobeyed the team but at the end of the day we'd have all probably did the same to win, or at least I would have. Rosberg must be commended for doing as he was told staying behind Hamilton, I thought he would've done the same thing that Vettel did and just go past.

Heh, good for Vettel, feel sorry for Webber though.
Rosberg should have gone for Hamilton too.

They are racing drivers, not retail workers.

We're all against team orders here, but thats not the issue,

The issue that Webber switched to a lower engine mode and held back because he was told by the team that he would not be challenged by Vettel. Vettel then took this opportunity to overtake a car that was coasting its way to the end of the race. Vettel might have got no where near Webber if both drivers had of kept pushing until the last lap.

Dont make out that Vettel is some sort of Hero by going against team orders, he cheated his way to a Victory.

 

[kharma45]

Disobeying team orders isn't cheating. The lack of magnanimity irritated me though at the end.

 

[Psychotext]

It's funny... I remember how a lot of us (including me) praised Mark for ignoring team orders back in Silverstone. I guess the difference is whether you're actually able to ignore team orders and get past your team mate.

I'll stand by what I said then. Team orders may be a necessary evil, but it doesn't make them any less shit (especially at this point in the season).

 

[kharma45]

Patrick Stewart doing the BBC voiceover at the end now, awesome.

Also,

 

[PdotMichael]

Well, at least it proves that Red Bull doesn't have a number 1 because why should they order Vettel to stay behind Webber or?

 

[kharma45]

I guess they were scared of this happening again

 

[Adamm]

Disobeying team orders isn't cheating. The lack of magnanimity irritated me though at the end.

Depends what you define cheating as.
Vettel gained an unfair advantage over Webber by disobeying team orders.

 

[kharma45]

Depends what you define cheating as.
Vettel gained an unfair advantage over Webber by disobeying team orders.

he didn't break any rules, just was morally wrong and i doubt he has anything in his contact like Massa gas that stipulates that he has to obey what the team tell him. So, cunt move but at the end of the day he won so he wont care.

 

[Ark]

Holding Rosberg back served no tactical purpose, in fact it stunted a potential bigger points tally, whats understandable about this?

Given Mercedes' form over the last 3 years, bringing both cars home in 3rd and 4th is a huge result for them. Especially after Nico suffered a mechanical failure last weekend in Oz.

Hamilton was already cruising, saving as much fuel as was possible, so there was little chance that he would damage the car himself, except for something exogenous.

Rosberg was never going to catch the Red Bulls at that point in the race, and they had a massive gap to Massa in 5th place. The team clearly have something in place that says by a certain a point, in a certain scenario (i.e. today's race) that both drivers will hold station barring, again, something external. Red Bull too, but it would appear Red Bull is under contract by Vettel, not the other way around.

Keeping Rosberg behind Hamilton, other than the agreement that was already set-up by the team also meant that Rosberg cruised the car home, minimising any risk of mechanical failure.

We're all against team orders here, but thats not the issue,

I'm not. They've always had their place in F1 and they always will do. The drivers work for the teams, the teams don't work for the drivers.

Depends what you define cheating as.
Vettel gained an unfair advantage over Webber by disobeying team orders.

If he was cheating, he'd have a penalty.

 

[dalin80]

he didn't break any rules, just was morally wrong and i doubt he has anything in his contact like Massa gas that stipulates that he has to obey what the team tell him. So, cunt move but at the end of the day he won so he wont care.

Red Bull might care, the team is only there to help sell foul sickly piss drink any time they get more bad press then good then its an advertisement feature which isnt working as well as it should. For the longest time RBR have made out to be the nice small indy team they definitely don't want people to start thinking of them as a merry band of douchebags who have enough money to buy out the entire rest of the field, it isnt good PR.

 

[Psychotext]

One thing is certain, after Webber at Silverstone and Vettel today, team orders are dead at Red Bull.

The only way I can think that they'd be able to fix it is to threaten both with the use of a "1 race ban" (using a reserve driver) if they're guilty of it.

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

Just finished the BBC highlights and caught up with the last however many pages of this thread. Great race, but as entertaining as it is to have inter-team drama, I felt really uncomfortable having to watch the pre-podium preparations. Even Hamilton was fuming.

I think I'm echoing the majority when I say that Vettel has again come off looking like a petulant child. There's something to be admired about drivers who will push no matter what (Senna), but when they insist on going about it in such a two-faced manner (Schumacher/Vettel) it can tend to come off as pretty revolting. I don't really think there's a a case for Vettel's claim of not fully understanding his orders, he knew exactly what he was doing. It's just a shame he can't even be honest about it.

I agree with those that thought that Merc's order was pretty unfair as well. The cars were sitting pretty where they were, the order was of absolutely no consequence to them so it was unfair to hold Rosberg back. It looks like it's put Brawn in a difficult position though, so it will be interesting to see if there's any fallout within the team about it.

Shame there's a three week gap to the next race now as well, given that it gives both teams ample time to smooth their shit over, and it gives the press slightly too long to dwell on this story ad nauseum.

 

[Omiee]

So im going to post my reactions to the race in this post. I avoided this thread and all news so i dont know anything about the race yet

so sorry in avance for this long post lol. will read the other posts later.

Sky features are getting better.

RBR has to stop 4 times :O hope that will not be the case.

Love that the track is wet.

Man that feeling i get just before a GP start never goes away.

THAT START BY WEBBBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!!!!!!

wtf alonso???? wing gonneeeee!! when did that happen?

Seriously decent start? That was an amazing start by webber!!

Look at the fighting spirit by alonso. Why is he not stopping?

WHAT A FUCKING IDOOOOOOOOOOT FUUUUCK YOU FERRARI.

HOW CAN YOU NOT FUCKING PIT HIM?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? WOOW WHAT A BUNCH OF IDIOTS AT FERRARI.

Nice pace by hamilton so far. I think he should be happy with his change to mercedes.

Amazing gentleman racing by rosberg and button!!

that overtake by hulkenburg on perez has to be so much fun for sauber lol.

RBR first in stead of reacting?

wooow he is sliding all over the track!!

horrible choice by the team. he has a lot of traffic now. vettel fucked by the team in stead of webber lol. thats a new one.

HAHAHAHAHA HAMILTON THOUGHT HE STILL WAS AT MCLAREN looooool that was funny as hell.

what is with all these problems at the pits.

mercedes with 3rd and 4th is really great to see. Love that team and they deserve better results than last year.

Kimi really struggeling this race.

Vettel is pretty slow so far.

Hamilton flying compared to rbr. A win by hamilton would really be a great job done by that team.

kimi stuck behind perez. he just can not over take him. grosjean pulled a lead in front of them. this is hurting kimi's race.

finally kimi lol.

rosberg closing in hamilton now.

i cant believe mercedes are matching the pace set by rbr. they are by far the most improved team so far.

Grosjean should be at the back of massa in a few laps now. Good to see we have 4 top teams now.

im taking back my criticism of webber last race. He is doing a good job atm.

2.3 pit stop? wauw that is fast. aint that the record?

woow that left front of vettel is fucked.

horrible pit stop by force india. wauuuw that is just horrible. Made even me uncomfortable lol.

man my heart is racing. come on now make a clean overtake.

mercs are like hyenas smelling blood.

amazing race so far by rbr and mercedes.

lol he is to slow get him out of the way. that was pretty arrogant from vettel.

horrible race for force india.

pretty early pit stop by hamilton?

webber dropping vettel now. rosberg on the back of vettel now.

who is the slow one now vettel? come on now, push more!!

RBR fast as fuck this year with their stops.

i just feel hamilton is going to win this race.

pretty exciting race!!

aaaaaa button got fucked by mclaren thats horribleeeeeeeee ( silverstone all over again )

hamilton looooooooool'ing at the moment.

Webber win with hamilton second and rosberg 3rd is my prediction at lap 37 now.

great overtake by vettel! but to bad hamilton is on fuel saving mode.

did not expect this good of a fight by webber.

RBR really on fire this year with their pit stops. Cant be said enough.

Is massa in this race? Have not seen him for a few laps now lol.

THAT FIGHT BETWEEN THE RBR DRIVERS NICEEEE!!

lovely sight to see both of the rbr drivers fighting like this.

F1 IS BAAAAACK. these fights between webber and vettel and rosberg and hamilton niceeeeeeeeee.

BEAUTIFUL RACINGGGGGGG.

this is what f1 is about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is silly looooooooooooool.

this is not silly this is fucking racing for the winnnnnnnnnn.

they are really going at each other.

just beautiful.

you wont see this shit between ferrari drivers. massa would just move out of the way lol.

please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders

let them race!! let them race!!

newey is going nuuuuts.

brawn is going nuuuuuts.

during the fight between webber and vettel they droped the mercedes boys by 10 seconds lol. they should have been fighting all race long.

really hope their tires will hold for the last few laps.

hamilton on podium, i cant believe it. unless rosberg overtakes him in these last few laps.

woow team orders by mercedes. do not overtake lewis.

Really happy with rbr not having any team orders (this year, i remember maintain the gap). clean and awesome racing by their drivers.

cant believe they did 4 stops. 6 stops in barcelona?

rosberg is not happy at all. driving at those speeds and having time to have an argument. f1 drivers are clearly cut from a different kind of wood.

vettel equals jackie steward. amazingggg win amazing win. What a race by rbr.

really wanna see how the after race meeting will be at rbr.

 

[SunhiLegend]

So im going to post my reactions to the race in this post. I avoided this thread and all news so i dont know anything about the race yet

so sorry in avance for this long post lol. will read the other posts later.

Sky features are getting better.

RBR has to stop 4 times :O hope that will not be the case.

Love that the track is wet.

Man that feeling i get just before a GP start never goes away.

THAT START BY WEBBBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!!!!!!

wtf alonso???? wing gonneeeee!! when did that happen?

Seriously decent start? That was an amazing start by webber!!

Look at the fighting spirit by alonso. Why is he not stopping?

WHAT A FUCKING IDOOOOOOOOOOT FUUUUCK YOU FERRARI.

HOW CAN YOU NOT FUCKING PIT HIM?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? WOOW WHAT A BUNCH OF IDIOTS AT FERRARI.

Nice pace by hamilton so far. I think he should be happy with his change to mercedes.

Amazing gentleman racing by rosberg and button!!

that overtake by hulkenburg on perez has to be so much fun for sauber lol.

RBR first in stead of reacting?

wooow he is sliding all over the track!!

horrible choice by the team. he has a lot of traffic now. vettel fucked by the team in stead of webber lol. thats a new one.

HAHAHAHAHA HAMILTON THOUGHT HE STILL WAS AT MCLAREN looooool that was funny as hell.

what is with all these problems at the pits.

mercedes with 3rd and 4th is really great to see. Love that team and they deserve better results than last year.

Kimi really struggeling this race.

Vettel is pretty slow so far.

Hamilton flying compared to rbr. A win by hamilton would really be a great job done by that team.

kimi stuck behind perez. he just can not over take him. grosjean pulled a lead in front of them. this is hurting kimi's race.

finally kimi lol.

rosberg closing in hamilton now.

i cant believe mercedes are matching the pace set by rbr. they are by far the most improved team so far.

Grosjean should be at the back of massa in a few laps now. Good to see we have 4 top teams now.

im taking back my criticism of webber last race. He is doing a good job atm.

2.3 pit stop? wauw that is fast. aint that the record?

woow that left front of vettel is fucked.

horrible pit stop by force india. wauuuw that is just horrible. Made even me uncomfortable lol.

man my heart is racing. come on now make a clean overtake.

mercs are like hyenas smelling blood.

amazing race so far by rbr and mercedes.

lol he is to slow get him out of the way. that was pretty arrogant from vettel.

horrible race for force india.

pretty early pit stop by hamilton?

webber dropping vettel now. rosberg on the back of vettel now.

who is the slow one now vettel? come on now, push more!!

RBR fast as fuck this year with their stops.

i just feel hamilton is going to win this race.

pretty exciting race!!

aaaaaa button got fucked by mclaren thats horribleeeeeeeee ( silverstone all over again )

hamilton looooooooool'ing at the moment.

Webber win with hamilton second and rosberg 3rd is my prediction at lap 37 now.

great overtake by vettel! but to bad hamilton is on fuel saving mode.

did not expect this good of a fight by webber.

RBR really on fire this year with their pit stops. Cant be said enough.

Is massa in this race? Have not seen him for a few laps now lol.

THAT FIGHT BETWEEN THE RBR DRIVERS NICEEEE!!

lovely sight to see both of the rbr drivers fighting like this.

F1 IS BAAAAACK. these fights between webber and vettel and rosberg and hamilton niceeeeeeeeee.

BEAUTIFUL RACINGGGGGGG.

this is what f1 is about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is silly looooooooooooool.

this is not silly this is fucking racing for the winnnnnnnnnn.

they are really going at each other.

just beautiful.

you wont see this shit between ferrari drivers. massa would just move out of the way lol.

please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders please no team orders

let them race!! let them race!!

newey is going nuuuuts.

brawn is going nuuuuuts.

during the fight between webber and vettel they droped the mercedes boys by 10 seconds lol. they should have been fighting all race long.

really hope their tires will hold for the last few laps.

hamilton on podium, i cant believe it. unless rosberg overtakes him in these last few laps.

woow team orders by mercedes. do not overtake lewis.

Really happy with rbr not having any team orders (this year, i remember maintain the gap). clean and awesome racing by their drivers.

cant believe they did 4 stops. 6 stops in barcelona?

rosberg is not happy at all. driving at those speeds and having time to have an argument. f1 drivers are clearly cut from a different kind of wood.

vettel equals jackie steward. amazingggg win amazing win. What a race by rbr.

really wanna see how the after race meeting will be at rbr.

 

[f0rk]

lol

 

[kharma45]

vettel equals jackie steward. amazingggg win amazing win. What a race by rbr.

:lol only you could call this an amazing win.

 

[Adamm]

he didn't break any rules, just was morally wrong and i doubt he has anything in his contact like Massa gas that stipulates that he has to obey what the team tell him. So, cunt move but at the end of the day he won so he wont care.

If he was cheating, he'd have a penalty.

Like i said, it depends what you define as cheating. I didn't think it necessarily meant breaking any rules.
Google defines it as "Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage" in which Vettel did.

But anyway, we arent here to discuss what cheating means

I'm not. They've always had their place in F1 and they always will do. The drivers work for the teams, the teams don't work for the drivers.

But are you for team orders or do you just accept them? I can accept that they have always been there & probablya always will be & I can completely understand Mercedes telling their drivers to stay were they were and didnt argue against it. But if I had the choice I would have preferred them to race & to hell with tyre wear!

 

[Psychotext]

Ugh Omiee.

 

[Omiee]

woow i have some reading to do.

i did not see the team orders that were given.

i just finished watching the race.

when during the race on sky did any of the broadcasters say there was a team order issued?

only thing i heard was: this is silly.

i still have to see the press conference and read autosport etc.

Ugh Omiee.

what?

 

[Adamm]

woow i have some reading to do.

i did not see the team orders that were given.

i just finished watching the race.

when during the race on sky did any of the broadcasters say there was a team order issued?

only thing i heard was: this is silly.

i still have to see the press conference and read autosport etc.




what?

Multi 21, Seb. Multi 21!

 

[kharma45]

when during the race on sky did any of the broadcasters say there was a team order issued?

It was pretty clear straight after the race when Webber and Vettel were waiting to go onto the podium and then with Mark's podium interview.

 

[h3ro]

Multi 21, Omiee. MULTI 21.

 

[Psychotext]

Paragraphs, grammar, sentences, punctuation. All those sorts of things that help others read your posts.

 

[Omiee]

Multi 21, Seb. Multi 21!

What lap was that said during the live race? i wanna look it up because i clearly missed that part during the race.

 

[kharma45]

What lap was that said during the live race? i wanna look it up because i clearly missed that part during the race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyaGog7uHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=j2gv9WrjSeQ

 

[Omiee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyaGog7uHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=j2gv9WrjSeQ

Well thats after the race.

i posted that live during a replay of the race before any after race interviews.

will read upon it and post my opinion later. if there was a team order than vettel should have respected it like webber has done in the past.

i dont care about his drive for win or anything if that is the case. he should have known that he is a part of the team and should respect the teams decisions.

 

[kharma45]

Well thats after the race.

i posted that live during a replay of the race before any after race interviews.

will read upon it and post my opinion later. if there was a team order than vettel should have respected it like webber has done in the past.

i dont care about his drive for win or anything if that is the case. he should have known that he is a part of the team and should respect the teams decisions.

First one was pre-podium, did you stop watching as soon as they crossed the line?

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

Interesting: Ecclestone tried to get Hamilton a 2013 RBR deal

 

[f0rk]

On the BBC highlights it was clear what was happening during the race did Sky miss it?

 

[Dilly]

Paragraphs, grammar, sentences, punctuation. All those sorts of things that help others read your posts.

It's like ramblings of a madman written down in some dirty public toilet stall.

 

[Ark]

But are you for team orders or do you just accept them? I can accept that they have always been there & probablya always will be & I can completely understand Mercedes telling their drivers to stay were they were and didnt argue against it. But if I had the choice I would have preferred them to race & to hell with tyre wear!

I'm for them. The team's interests come first, the driver's second.

It's also the teams that have to deal with the sponsors, shareholders, etc, not the drivers.

 

[Adamm]

On the BBC highlights it was clear what was happening during the race did Sky miss it?

It was clearer on BBC because they told you about radio messages that werent broadcast.
Although it was pretty clear on sky too.

Also, im sure this has been posted, but Kimi driving on ice from the Sky build up is awesome. Its the most you will ever hear kimi talk & laugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yOEexmjLN4

 

[Omiee]

First one was pre-podium, did you stop watching as soon as they crossed the line?

no i posted my post right after they crossed the finish line.

im at the podium now with the anthems.

i heard webber say multi 21.

lost some respect for vettel after this. he should have done what the team told him to do.

watched the whole race on sky and never did any of the commentators say anything about team orders being given my rbr. they only were talking about the this is silly seb thing.


EDIT:
now they are saying something about multi 21 when vettel got the trophy.

 

[pants]

Rosberg wasn't going to catch the RBR's at that stage of the race.

It's a balancing act, you always try and get your car in as close as possible while playing it safe to capitalize on a potential rival slip up. Rosberg could have gone faster while still being safe.

I think the biggest fear Mercedes had was probably that if Rosberg did continue to make a go at Hamilton, that Hamilton would then have to defend his position aggressively because he wasn't going to roll over and give it up. That could in turn have ruined Hamilton's race when it came to the fuel, and the team would have lost more points overall, plus Hamilton would blame the team for the fuel issue in the first place.

Hamilton is a big boy (and he seems to have matured wonderfully) I dont think he would have defended much more and would have realized 4th is better than a DNF. Hamilton has a fair shout at Mercedes for fueling him incorrectly, but it absolutely should not have meant keeping Rosberg behind.

 

[Ark]

Also, im sure this has been posted, but Kimi driving on ice from the Sky build up is awesome. Its the most you will ever hear kimi talk & laugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yOEexmjLN4

That was actually really good. Props to Sky.

 

[DieH@rd]

 

[Omiee]

Some interesting things after i read up on this.

Webber was still fighting after he was told to hold position back in 2011 during the silverstone race.

Still team orders are allowed now so vettel should have respected it.

I think team orders should be banned from the sport. Just like how ferrari got shit for it a few years ago.

I think this is vettels last year at RBR. He just wants to win the championship and move on to an other team next year. Thats my feeling after this race.

Gaf on silverstone 2011: fuck rbr and their team orders

Gaf on malaysia 2013: team orders should always be followed

Well, I'm actually willing to bet that in this same race, if Rosberg said fuck it to team orders and overtook Hamilton, most people in this thread would also be celebrating his heroism. Is it hypocritical? Sure. But I don't think it's surprising that underdogs are easier to like!

quoting for truth.

 

[IISANDERII]

If he was cheating, he'd have a penalty.

No sir:

Cheat:
1. to defraud; swindle: He cheated her out of her inheritance.
2. to deceive; influence by fraud: He cheated us into believing him a hero.
3. to elude; deprive of something expected: He cheated the law by suicide.
4. to practice fraud or deceit: She cheats without regrets.
5. to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.

Violating rules is superseded by 4 other definitions of the word.

 

[RukusProvider]

You don't grow up idolizing Schumacher without picking up some of his qualities.

I honestly don't feel bad for webber I the sense that he disobeyed team orders and went out of his way to make a point about not helping in Brazil last season.

Sebb owes the team more of an apology than webber.

 

[kharma45]

You don't grow up idolizing Schumacher without picking up some of his qualities.

I honestly don't feel bad for webber I the sense that he disobeyed team orders and went out of his way to make a point about not helping in Brazil last season.

Sebb owes the team more of an apology than webber.

I would've imagined Schumacher though would've have been as... showy if he did so. Vettel doing his usual finger routine after really grated.

 

[dalin80]

On the Rosberg Hamilton thing as it seems to keep being missed, they were racing rosberg got ahead several times only for hamilton to put his foot down again and retake the position, rosberg had plenty of chances to get ahead he just get them to stick.

In the end as they were in very very safe positions and merc didn't want to risk losing fuel, tyres or bodywork they were both told to slow down so they did, not happy about it but rosberg had the vast majority of the race to make something stick and he couldnt.

 

[Omiee]

It was orders after the last pit... it was clear they'd both bring it home. Team wants the constructors points and Seb was stupid to put all of those at risk.

Seb still sounding like a douche. "I tried to apologise in front of everyone". "I don't really care about the criticism that is coming up now".

Man, I hope he loses his composure after this for the rest of the season.

Vettel apparently said "I didn't do it deliberately" and Webber apparently sighed and chuckled slightly.

Webber also said he's going to go to Australia for a surf and that will be his medicine. Hopefully that medicine will be enough.

Then apparently Vettel said "It was a surprise to me". Yeah, bullshit.

yeah because istanbul made him lose his first championship

Webber has ignored team-orders himself: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93001

on a different matter, can we talk about how bad mclaren were today. both cars were retired today, that was awfull.