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The Formula 1 2013 Season |OT| End of the Webber Era

Hammer24

Banned
Heinz-Harald Frentzen you mean :p

Yes, of course.

Weren't Schumacher and Frenzen good friends? Until Schumacher stole his (ex-)girlfriend?

No, they weren´t. I´d go as far as to say that MSC didn´t have a single friend in his first career.

I thought of another scenario on the way home, something to think about: What if this results in Vettel leaving RBR? Seb may have always thought "Sure, equal drivers, but everyone knows I'm #1 around here", but then this situation comes along and with how public it's been, may throw him off balance to see that the people who have final say in the team actually care more about team performance (and public perception of that team) rather than just the performance of one driver.

I dunno. I mean, there's been talk before of him jumping ship before this event, but if RBR can get wins for the team without Vettel (and there's every indication they could with Webber... though probably not as consistently) then they may not be as eager as everyone would think to make sure he stays there.

There are constant rumors that VET signed a loi with FER for 2015. Nothing substantial ever, so maybe its just to put pressure on RBR to better his position for a contract extension. But persistent enough to not dismiss it out of hand.
Yet I doubt last Sunday changed anything in this regard.
 

Dilly

Banned
There are constant rumors that VET signed a loi with FER for 2015. Nothing substantial ever, so maybe its just to put pressure on RBR to better his position for a contract extension. But persistent enough to not dismiss it out of hand.
Yet I doubt last Sunday changed anything in this regard.

I, I don't know if I can handle this.
 

Hammer24

Banned
I, I don't know if I can handle this.

German journalists have a tendency to make it seem as if titles won on a FER count double. I fear one day we´ll see him driving there - just as we always knew MSC would one day return to his Merc roots.
 

Shaneus

Member
I, I don't know if I can handle this.
Webber #1 driver at RBR and reigning WDC in 2014. Believe.

There are constant rumors that VET signed a loi with FER for 2015. Nothing substantial ever, so maybe its just to put pressure on RBR to better his position for a contract extension. But persistent enough to not dismiss it out of hand.
Yet I doubt last Sunday changed anything in this regard.
LOI?

And... would it be wise for RBR to keep Vettel on for 2014 if there is an engine change? Building a car (that would likely be used as a base for the future) around a driver that likely won't be there? Keep in mind, I don't know what other changes there could be and exactly what effect changing the engines would have on the general drivability of an F1 car. I'm not that smart ;)
 

Hammer24

Banned

Letter of intent, a precursor for a contract, where you set the rough landmarks for the full contract that follows. What HAM signed in Canada last year.

And... would it be wise for RBR to keep Vettel on for 2014 if there is an engine change? Building a car (that would likely be used as a base for the future) around a driver that likely won't be there? Keep in mind, I don't know what other changes there could be and exactly what effect changing the engines would have on the general drivability of an F1 car. I'm not that smart ;)

Especially with a totally new car you´d want to keep/get the best driver(s) available, that could make up for possible shortcomings of said car, with the ability to help develop the car over the year.
Just think ALO at the first few races of last year with the turd he had to carry around the track.
 

Shaneus

Member
So that's a "yes"? Makes sense, then! I'm just thinking more that Webber could well stay on for 2014 (if his performance thus far in 2013 is any indication) meaning it'd be more likely both Vettel and Webber could leave at the end of 2014... and I don't think a lot of teams like the idea of having two fresh (to the team) people at the same time.

Am I talking out of my arse here, or does some of it make at least a little bit of sense? I don't want to think I'm just randomly saying shit that's 100% unlikely. Just thinking of what possible fallout there could be outside of the two drivers not playing nice with each other.
 

Hammer24

Banned
So that's a "yes"?

My money is on RBR keeping VET for as long as anyhow possible.

and I don't think a lot of teams like the idea of having two fresh (to the team) people at the same time.

Yeah, thats a situation I´d avoid as well. To many intangibles combined with too few testing sessions.

Just thinking of what possible fallout there could be outside of the two drivers not playing nice with each other.

I think there wont be any fallout at all. WEB knows exactly what he´s in for, and VET knows he´s untouchable. Nothing substantial has changed, I mean they weren´t best buddies to begin with.
I could only imagine the FIA watching the next few races a little closer, to hand out fines if their rivalry would translate to some on track stupidity.
 

DBT85

Member
Hamilton on Marko's comment about number 1 and number 2 drivers

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...84/Lewis-Hamilton-Im-not-No1-at-Mercedes.html

Rosberg was left seething by Brawn’s decision after blasting that Hamilton was “too slow” and afterwards Red Bull Racing consultant, Helmut Marko, sniped: “Mercedes clearly have a No1 and No2 driver”.

But Hamilton hit back: “I think that is rubbish.

“Red Bull have a clear one and two, they always have and that is why they have always had the problems they have had.

“We don’t have a one and two here. I have always said, from the moment I was speaking to the team, that I wanted equality.

“I didn’t want to be favoured, I just wanted equality.

“They didn’t even offer to favour me, but I just wanted to make the point that I am not a driver that comes and requests that like a lot of other drivers do.

“You have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and say you won fair and square.

“It was just like in Malaysia. I don’t feel like I won my spot fair and square. Although I did drive a decent race, I don’t feel spectacular about it.”

Hamilton made a point of speaking to Rosberg after last Sunday’s race to explain how he wanted to allow him to pass.

Rosberg is understood to have accepted Hamilton’s word — although their next table tennis competition in the block they share in Monaco could now have an added bit of spice.

Hamilton added: “Overall Nico did a better job but I am just going to keep pushing hard.

“I am sure we will play some ping pong together and we often like to go to the casino together, so we will probably do that.”
 
I think it's pretty damn clear. Webber has never been one to pay attention to team orders (at least not in a timely manner, if at all) and now Vettel has shown he wont either.

Like I said before, they need to come up with some sort of punishment that their drivers actually fear.
 

Hammer24

Banned
Like I said before, they need to come up with some sort of punishment that their drivers actually fear.

I highly doubt it. In the end, only the results count - and as long as they finish 1-2, they wont give a f**k.

What kind of punishment are you thinking about?
 
The only one that would work is one they wouldn't have the balls (or take the risk, championship wise) to use. Don't follow team orders and you'll be replaced by one of the reserve drivers for a race.
 
There's harm to the team, certainly but the point is that it's a nuclear option. It's scary enough for the driver (you can pretty much forget winning the championship if you get replaced for a race) that it's never actually needed.

I really doubt a pay cut would concern either guy given they're multi-millionaires.
 

Zeppu

Member
That´d actually cost the team money, so they´d punish themselves instead of the drivers.



Sounds good, but might not be possible contractually.

Teams should have a clause in the contracts that will allow for this. Cause I imagine that the most they do right now is give them some sort of fine as a slap on the wrist, but a one off fine with a €5 mil pay would be the equivalent of one of us in here losing a €2 coin.

There's harm to the team, certainly but the point is that it's a nuclear option. It's scary enough for the driver (you can pretty much forget winning the championship if you get replaced for a race) that it's never actually needed.

I really doubt a pay cut would concern either guy given they're multi-millionaires.

The first strike, a pay cut of €500k, will probably not bother them that much but I'd bet they wouldn't do it a second or third time.
 

Hammer24

Banned
There's harm to the team, certainly but the point is that it's a nuclear option. It's scary enough for the driver (you can pretty much forget winning the championship if you get replaced for a race) that it's never actually needed.

But the teams get the money according to their points - with lesser drivers they´d get fewer points and thus fewer money. Not even to begin what the sponsors might have to say about it.
 

Hammer24

Banned
Teams should have a clause in the contracts that will allow for this. Cause I imagine that the most they do right now is give them some sort of fine as a slap on the wrist, but a one off fine with a €5 mil pay would be the equivalent of one of us in here losing a €2 coin.
The first strike, a pay cut of €500k, will probably not bother them that much but I'd bet they wouldn't do it a second or third time.

I can´t remember any team ever fining a driver. I think all the contracts would have to be reworked to allow this.
 

Zeppu

Member
I can´t remember any team ever fining a driver. I think all the contracts would have to be reworked to allow this.

Unless it's something as controversial as this one here, there would be no reason for any team to divulge any information about any fines handed out. I doubt they would even fine Vettel for such an incident seeing as they got a 1-2.
 

kharma45

Member
Looking into the rules Vettel could be punished by the FIA if they wanted to I think from looking into the rules (of course I could well be wrong)


- The article forbidding team orders (39.1) is deleted. Teams will be reminded that any actions liable to bring the sport into disrepute are dealt with under Article 151c of the International Sporting Code and any other relevant provisions

which is

c) Any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally.

Of course nothing will happen but it has brought the sport arguably into disrepute.
 
Not particularly. More people seem pissed off about the actual team orders than Vettel choosing to ignore them.

Plus of course the act was quite complimentary to the interests of competition. ;)
 
Looking into the rules Vettel could be punished by the FIA if they wanted to I think from looking into the rules (of course I could well be wrong)

which is

Of course nothing will happen but it has brought the sport arguably into disrepute.


after what Ferrari did in the USA or Hockenheim some years ago?

That's a pointless rule.
 

Ark

Member
Vettel has literally nowhere else to go other than stay at RBR. Ferrari won't take him until Alonso leaves in a couple of years, and by that time Bianchi may just have sky rocketed into a Ferrari seat.

Would Ferrari risk pulling a McLaren 2007 with Bianchi and Vettel? Who knows.

He won't go to McLaren, anyone would be a fool to. Mercedes and Lotus are both out of the question.
 
Vettel has literally nowhere else to go other than stay at RBR. Ferrari won't take him until Alonso leaves in a couple of years, and by that time Bianchi may just have sky rocketed into a Ferrari seat.

Would Ferrari risk pulling a McLaren 2007 with Bianchi and Vettel? Who knows.

He won't go to McLaren, anyone would be a fool to. Mercedes and Lotus are both out of the question.
What?
 
Loss of 2 major sponsors, loss of long running engine contract, loss of several key figures.

So yes.
Their next sponsor is probably Telmex, who is backed by the richest man in the world. They have Honda most likely too. McLaren have been in this position before.
 

Dilly

Banned
Their next sponsor is probably Telmex, who is backed by the richest man in the world. They have Honda most likely too. McLaren have been in this position before.

I'm pretty sure that someone posted numbers that showed Telmex alone is a lot less than those 2 sponsors combined. Having Honda isn't necessarily a good thing.
 
I'm pretty sure that someone posted numbers that showed Telmex alone is a lot less than those 2 sponsors combined. Having Honda isn't necessarily a good thing.
Honda have built small powerful engines before and do so in MotoGP. That's an advantage they have over Ferrari and Mercedes in that department. We don't know how the V6 engines will turn out by anyone.
 

Zeppu

Member
I also agree with fake Alonso. Suzi Perry is pretty terrible. I'd argue it's because she's still new to BBC F1 but even Coulthard seems awkward around her. Can't wait till we get a live race and see her coping with EJ though.

Also, AHAHAHAHAHAH:

Ldze4TT.png
 
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