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[rockman zx]

full article: http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/2...-for-shanghai-struggle-after-finishing-eighth

With Lotus he had to drive like that to stay out longer and get all those podiums that he did the last two seasons. With Ferrari this isn't working.

The problem now is that his teammate is Alonso not Grosjean, with Grosjean there was room for mistakes and adaptation, with Alonso he need to improve ASAP or he will look really bad race after race.

I have no doubt that Kimi will do much better after the upgrades in Barca and the two testing days he will have after the race. Kimi is far from dead.

 

[theignoramus]

Im very dissapointed in Kimi and Seb. Both seem to have some weaknesses getting exposed by this new formula, albeit theyve had their share of "tough luck".
I wonder how driving guru Rob Wilson feels now, having said Lewis was "second to Vettel" in driving ability.

 

[NHale]

He obviously had a good car those seasons, the best car in many races, but no way he had a car as dominant as the 2013 RBR or the current Mercedes. Look it up.

In 2005 the McLaren was much faster but very unreliable (hello Newey) and that's why Kimi lost the championship that year. In 2006, Renault had the dominant car for the 1st part of the year then the mass dampers scandal happened and Ferrari had the best car for the 2nd part of the year.

In my opinion the only year where Alonso had the best car available from start to finish was 2007. He only lost that year because McLaren allowed the Alonso-Hamilton rivalry to happen.

 

[DrM]

Lap chart is on that Mclaren fanpage

And Mercedes must be pleased to see new nose performing as they hoped it would, so we can expect other aero upgrades in Barcelona - which are all connected to the new nose.

 

[Mastah]

In my opinion the only year where Alonso had the best car available from start to finish was 2007. He only lost that year because McLaren allowed the Alonso-Hamilton rivalry to happen.

Really? Alonso's performance against Massa during last 4 seasons and now against Kimi clearly suggests it was superior Alonso and Hamilton taking inferior McLaren to the fight with inferior Massa and Raikkonen in superior Ferrari.

It's not surprising people inside Lotus team thought Alonso in 2012 Lotus would be able to clinch WDC.

 

[Leunam]

I called Perez outracing both McLarens.

Tough luck.

 

[Shaneus]

TOUGH LUCK!


ROFLMAO.

What was the context for this? I saw briefly on the F1 app about Vettel having to let RIC through, but no idea what strategies they were on at that point etc.

Shame (from what I can tell) RIC didn't get on the podium, but it sounds like the Ferrari was somewhat solid.

Last moment I caught on TV before heading out to other engagements was poor Massa getting severely dicked in the pits. Assume he didn't recover from it?

Edit: http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.co...-ignores-team-orders-telling-team-tough-luck/
Holy fucking shit. What a petulant little turd. Is there a chance RIC could've caught Alonso if Vettel let him through?
And did I hear the crowd cheer?

I just read on that page too that KK unlapped himself and Seb cracked the sads as well. I'm tipping that if this continues, Vettel will go to Ferrari under RBRs terms and not his.

Final question: Is the race worth downloading/watching?

 

[Psychotext]

Lost a couple of seconds, so it could have made a difference.

Of course, had he passed him in the last couple of laps it wouldn't have counted anyway.

 

[PdotMichael]

Really? Alonso's performance against Massa during last 4 seasons and now against Kimi clearly suggests it was superior Alonso and Hamilton taking inferior McLaren to the fight with inferior Massa and Raikkonen in superior Ferrari.

It's not surprising people inside Lotus team thought Alonso in 2012 Lotus would be able to clinch WDC.

That sounds a little bit like rewriting history. The McLaren was a fantastic car in 2007 and both drivers were able to win the title before the last race. Remember Hamilton's shameful end in China?
The Ferrari wasn't sloppy though.

And it's kind of unfair not to give a new driver in a new team with a car with completly different characteristics some time.

 

[cmr-94]

Don't have a problem with Vettel not letting Ricciardo through. They were on similar strategies, not like in Bahrain.

 

[Shaneus]

Hey, I haven't seen Omi post in this thread for a while. Was he banned? Because that's the only reason why he wouldn't post in this thread, especially with such an unusual start to the season.

Also, for when we need it:
The Formula 1 2014 Season |OT2| 3 > 1

Agreed, RIC seems to have a race pace that is messing with Vettel's head.

Yeah, this is where Vettel's lack of experience is really showing now. Doesn't as much have the capacity to keep a level head. It's probably combined with the Mercedes' performance, though. I think if the RBRs were leading the pack with Daniel in front, Vettel would be less perturbed than he is now.

And it's kind of unfair not to give a new driver in a new team with a car with completly different characteristics some time.

Ricciardo seems to be doing alright.

 

[Dilly]

Hey, I haven't seen Omi post in this thread for a while. Was he banned? Because that's the only reason why he wouldn't post in this thread, especially with such an unusual start to the season.

Vettel isn't winning, can't make obnoxious posts then.

 

[PdotMichael]

Ricciardo seems to be doing alright.

Yes, and?

The first half of the season isn't even over yet. Just check how the WDC table looked like at the same point of the season last year.

 

[TCRS]

Chinese GP: Fernando Alonso dedicates podium to Stefano Domencali
(...)
He dedicated the result to former boss Stefano Domenicali, who resigned after Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen finished ninth and 10th in the last race. (...)

"And on the personal side I had a fantastic weekend, probably at the level of 2012 in terms of driving and feeling comfortable."

Alonso's remark is a reference to his performance two years ago, which is regarded as the two-time champion's finest season so far.

In 2012, he took what was acknowledged to be the fourth or fifth fastest car to the brink of the world championship, narrowly losing out to Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel at the final race. (...)

Alonso said: "Stefano felt probably not happy with his job or his life at this moment so he decided to step back.

"Obviously this podium is dedicated to him in a way because probably all the parts from now until July or August are coming from the team working under Stefano, so hopefully we can give some great Sundays at home in front of the TV to Stefano." (...)

"We had some disappointing results and now we can enjoy it a little bit in a better way but knowing there is still a long way to go. Mercedes looked very dominant again. It is not enough.

"Barcelona will be a Red Bull track, with not many straights so they can exploit the potential they have with aerodynamics so it's going to be a tough weekend.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/27096591

Alonso is not expecting a repeat performance but at least he gave us some hope.

 

[DrM]

Isn't Barcelona also front limited race track? So Ferrari should do ok there, but I think that they wonder how will their major upgrade package work

 

[Ark]

Alonso is right about Red Bull at Barcelona, and the rest of the European tracks. With less Tilke tracks comes less straights. I'd still bet on a Mercedes win but would not be surprised to see RBR cause a ruckus.

 

[DrM]

Did you see how huge camera mounts are on new Mercedes nose?

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Glad to see Alonso on the podium.

 

[Jibbed]

Boring race, after lap 1. Hamilton showing Rosberg how it's done, and I literally laughed out loud at Vettel's "tough luck" line.

BTCC, WTCC and Ginetta action more than made up for it though!

 

[Pryce]

Boring race after lap one, outside of a few areas. This season is lining up to be just as boring as last years.

Hope Ferrari and RBR can do something to Mercedes.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Did you see how huge camera mounts are on new Mercedes nose?

Yeah. You can put mounts in quotes. Totally exploiting the camera mount rules to use that as an aero device. I love it though. The Merc isn't just the fastest car on the grid, its also arguably the prettiest too. That new nose is beautiful. PEACE.

 

[DrM]

Nico from post-race press conference, on question

Q: (Luis Fernando Ramos - Racing Magazine) Nico, all the other teams have set their sights on the Barcelona race as their best chance to improve their performance with the novelties on their cars, so how confident is Mercedes that the things you’re going to bring to Barcelona will keep the gap or maybe even extend the gap you have to the other teams?

NR: Hopefully, more than all the other teams; we want to go to Barcelona with the biggest step, that’s our ambition. Barcelona is a chance for us to extend the advantage that we have and that’s the approach that we have going to Barcelona, 100 percent.

Other selected opinions from drivers:
- Kyatt happy with the result, he expects more from STR on European leg
- "We made some progress" Lotus boys
- Chilton pleased with his 23rd consecutive finish
- Jenson had huge issues with front tyres, pessimistic about Barcelona upgrade
- Magnussen misses downforce on their car
- Bottas also raced without telemetry
- Sutil with another engine failure

 

[Yagami_Sama]

MacLaren futures seems even worse :

- Jenson had huge issues with front tyres, pessimistic about Barcelona upgrade
- Magnussen misses downforce on their car

 

[Moozo]

When are McLaren going to abandon the new nose?

 

[Nicktendo86]

Did you see how huge camera mounts are on new Mercedes nose?

The thing I love most about that picture is the front wing. Most of the time I just cannot tell what all the elements, cascades etc actually do on a wing but it is so beautifully clear on that photo, it is causing an outwash to guide the air outside the tyres. Wonderful engineering.

 

[Ark]

I know it doesn't mean much outside of a sporting 'well done' but I really like this picture:

EDIT: Pipe dreaming here, but imagine if Alonso and Rosberg swapped teams. Just imagine.

 

[Mastah]

That sounds a little bit like rewriting history. The McLaren was a fantastic car in 2007 and both drivers were able to win the title before the last race. Remember Hamilton's shameful end in China?
The Ferrari wasn't sloppy though.

What history rewriting?

Massa and Raikkonen could match and beat Alonso (and Hamilton) in 2007. But when driving in the same car, Massa was trashed and it looks like Raikkonen will be destroyed by Alonso too. I think it pretty clearly shows 2007 Ferrari was far superior to 2007 McLaren and Massa, matching Raikkonen in all 3 seasons they spent together in red cars, suddenly didn't become top driver in 2007, after being dominated by 37-year old Schumacher the year before.

And it's kind of unfair not to give a new driver in a new team with a car with completly different characteristics some time.

So I guess it's unfair to praise Ricciardo, who being in exactly the same situation as Raikkonen, is beating Vettel?

 

[DrM]

EDIT: Pipe dreaming here, but imagine if Alonso and Rosberg swapped teams. Just imagine.

The Crying Game

 

[John_B]

Give Raikkonen some time to get on top of things. Alonso seems like one of the best prepared drivers always, and his understanding from being part of developing the car is a pretty big advantage.

Hamilton also needed that 2013 season with Mercedes for having an optimal 2014 season.

Most disappointing of the top class drivers is Vettel. He just seems very poorly prepared for this season, and there is already a lot of talk about him not being able to cope without his superior EBD car.

Raikkonen and Vettel are both top class drivers. We will see some strong races from them later in the season. In my heart they don't shine as bright as Alonso and Hamilton, but Raikkonen is an absolute legend, and Vettel might become one, other than on the stats sheets.d

 

[Shaneus]

So I guess it's unfair to praise Ricciardo, who being in exactly the same situation as Raikkonen, is beating Vettel?

I posted almost exactly the same thing earlier, I think the point was missed:

Ricciardo seems to be doing alright.

Yes, and?

The first half of the season isn't even over yet. Just check how the WDC table looked like at the same point of the season last year.

 

[DrM]

This year could be Force India's best year in F1 so far - 54 points after four races is the best start for them. This is only 23 points less that they collected last year and half the points of their maximum score of 109 in 2012 season.

 

[duckroll]

What was the context for this? I saw briefly on the F1 app about Vettel having to let RIC through, but no idea what strategies they were on at that point etc.

They were asking Vettel to let Ricciardo through, he didn't want to, he asked the team about the differences in their tires or something, they explained why Ric has the advantage at the moment, and his response was "Tough luck." loooooool.

 

[Shaneus]

They were asking Vettel to let Ricciardo through, he didn't want to, he asked the team about the differences in their tires or something, they explained why Ric has the advantage at the moment, and his response was "Tough luck." loooooool.

Yeah, I managed to catch up on that and rewatch the footage (over and over) yesterday. Thanks for getting back to me, though

I'm honestly surprised with how DR is performing so far this season. Honestly thought he wasn't mentally ready for racing with a 4 time WDC.

 

[PdotMichael]

So I guess it's unfair to praise Ricciardo, who being in exactly the same situation as Raikkonen, is beating Vettel?

(skipping the first part - it's a deadhorse because there are so many different variables, you can't compare completly different things through different seasons)

No, but we don't need to act as if the season is over after four races. Also we shouldn't ignore that the difference between Ricciardo and Vettel was one position in China - it's not even the same as Alonso and Raikönnen who are driving like two completly different cars. .

 

[TCRS]

This year could be Force India's best year in F1 so far - 54 points after four races is the best start for them. This is only 23 points less that they collected last year and half the points of their maximum score of 109 in 2012 season.

Hopefully Hulkenberg can get something out of it, though I don't know what. Maybe Kimi retires after a shitty season and the Hulk goes to Ferrari

 

[avaya]

If Alonso was in the same team as Lewis he'd be throwing his usual tantrums as Lewis handed his ass to him. Rookie schooled him in 2007. Shit would be worse today and Alonso knows it.

 

[bobnowhere]

Hopefully Hulkenberg can get something out of it, though I don't know what. Maybe Kimi retires after a shitty season and the Hulk goes to Ferrari

I'm worried unless the rules around weight and some compensation is introduced to at least semi-equalise driver size, The Hulk is never going to get the big drive he deserves.

 

[Juicy Bob]

Just seen the race. I can't work out whether Vettel's doing something wrong this season, or D-Rizzle's doing something very, very right. Maybe the car is just much better suited to Dan's driving style, I don't know. Whatever it is, it's fascinating to see the dynamic between the two Red Bull drivers this season.

In other news, how the fuck do you manage to wave the chequered flag on the wrong lap? That's a monumental cock-up. Embarrassingly bad. And it cost Kobayashi his awesome move on the final lap too. Fuck that shit.

 

[Shaneus]

In other news, how the fuck do you manage to wave the chequered flag on the wrong lap? That's a monumental cock-up. Embarrassingly bad. And it cost Kobayashi his awesome move on the final lap too. Fuck that shit.

The fuck? I didn't hear anything about that.

 

[Fox Mulder]

They were asking Vettel to let Ricciardo through, he didn't want to, he asked the team about the differences in their tires or something, they explained why Ric has the advantage at the moment, and his response was "Tough luck." loooooool.

i laughed when it happened, but that shit probably kept Ric off the podium too.

In other news, how the fuck do you manage to wave the chequered flag on the wrong lap? That's a monumental cock-up. Embarrassingly bad. And it cost Kobayashi his awesome move on the final lap too. Fuck that shit.

I didn't see that, but they were fucking up flags all day.

 

[RukusProvider]

Vettel will take a little bit to adapt his driving style to the new car.

He had clearly mastered and put all his confidence in driving cars with blown diffusers that allowed him to get on full throttle early and keep it pinned, the new cars punish that approach.

He's now having to unwind that mindset and it'll take a bit of time.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Re: The early end-of-race signal, a interesting comment on the Telegraph website on this story.

Hang on a minute! If Article 43.2 of the regulations states that 'Should for any reason the end-of-race signal be given before the leading car completes the scheduled number of laps, or the prescribed time has been completed, the race will be deemed to have finished when the leading car last crossed the line before the signal was given.”

In every race that I can remember seeing, the chequered flag (i.e. the end-of-race signal) has been waved as the leading car has approached the finish-line, not after it has passed it. At this point the leading car has not completed the scheduled number of laps. According to this 'obscure' regulation, the race should therefore be deemed to have finished 'when the leading car last crossed the line before the signal was given' - in other words, at the end of the previous lap.

The FIA must therefore recalculate the results of every race since this 'obscure' regulation came in.

Being pedantic, isn't that correct?

 

[Leunam]

Just seen the race. I can't work out whether Vettel's doing something wrong this season, or D-Rizzle's doing something very, very right. Maybe the car is just much better suited to Dan's driving style, I don't know. Whatever it is, it's fascinating to see the dynamic between the two Red Bull drivers this season.

NBC commentators were saying that during the row with the blown diffuser Webber was doing a little better than Vettel and it seems like Vettel really needs it to perform. Now that they're gone he's having a really hard time coping with that back end.

 

[Zeppu]

Man Vettel's such a nice guy. He knew that if he'd let RIC by immediately he'd have a chance of overtaking ALO in lap 55 or 56 so he made himself out to be an asshole and delayed him so that RIC wouldn't have to go through the trauma of going on the podium only to have it revoked again (because of the flag thingy)

So selfless.

 

[muteki]

The "life at the speed of F1" commercials switching from Vettel to Hamilton were hilarious.

 

[Nicktendo86]

If Alonso was in the same team as Lewis he'd be throwing his usual tantrums as Lewis handed his ass to him. Rookie schooled him in 2007. Shit would be worse today and Alonso knows it.

Four wins and 109 points apiece is not handing his arse to him. Yes Hamilton was a rookie and as double defending champion you would expect Alonso to have got the better of him but Hamilton was and is a supreme talent. I would personally put them on the top podium as the two best drivers by a LONG way, with perhaps LH having a slight edge. They should never be in the same team again but would love to see them both in competitive cars and fight it out.

One thing is for sure, the fact they have three titles between them while Vettel has four is a travesty.

 

[Dilly]

Four wins and 109 points apiece is not handing his arse to him. Yes Hamilton was a rookie and as double defending champion you would expect Alonso to have got the better of him but Hamilton was and is a supreme talent. I would personally put them on the top podium as the two best drivers by a LONG way, with perhaps LH having a slight edge. They should never be in the same team again but would love to see them both in competitive cars and fight it out.

One thing is for sure, the fact they have three titles between them while Vettel has four is a travesty.

Agreed.

 

[Zeppu]

I only started following F1 a few years ago but from you lot who have been watching for longer, how many of Schumi's seven titles do you think are undeserved because he had a vastly superior car?

 

[Nicktendo86]

Re: The early end-of-race signal, a interesting comment on the Telegraph website on this story.



Being pedantic, isn't that correct?

I don't think so, first of all the rule is talking about if the signal is given early, not if given at the end of the race is as normal. Second, the signal may be in place (i.e man waving a flag) but the signal has not actually been recieved until the driver drives past, in which case he would have crossed the finish line. Perhaps slightly poor wording, but I think that report is talking utter bollocks.

I had a look at telegraph f1 reporting for the first time yesterday and noticed how utterly shoddy it was.

 

[PdotMichael]

I only started following F1 a few years ago but from you lot who have been watching for longer, how many of Schumi's seven titles do you think are undeserved because he had a vastly superior car?

Something like undeserved doesn't exist. If the titles weren't a result of breaking F1 rules it's just fanboy nonsense, though there are many people who thinks he doesn't deserve all 7 titles for whatever reasons.