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[massivekettle]

Its not about the top speed at the end of the straight, they accelerate much slower coming out of the corner at the beginning of the straight. That's why they are much slower over the length of said straight.

But they are not!

Even if that’s the case, replays are showing that they are putting the power down earlier than most cars, which would offset their power disadvantage (as their relative lack of torque/power would significantly help drivability).

I re-checked Live Timing and RBR at every split is roughly 2-5kph slower than Mercedes so whatever deficit RBR has in raw power, they are making it up somehow.

 

[Hammer24]

I read they are still only running at 70%? :S

AMS:

"Renault hat seinen Motor auf Vordermann gebracht. "Wir sind noch nicht dort, wo wir hinwollen, aber es ist ein guter Schritt", resümierte Motorenchef Rob White. Zum ersten Mal konnte der Renault V6-Turbo über weite Strecken die volle Power entfalten. Die Ladedruck-Kontrolle und Motorabstimmung funktioniert deutlich besser. Damit wird auch die Batterie so weit aufgeladen, dass sie regelmäßiger als zuvor ihre 160 PS in das System einspeisen kann. "

quick´n´dirty:

"Renault got their engine up to the task. "We aren´t where we want to be yet, but its a good step forward", said chief engine engineer Rob White. For the first time the Renault V6 turbo could use all of its power for long stints. The turbo pressure control and engine management worked much better. So the battery gets enough juice, enabling the use of its 160hp more regularly.

 

[Hammer24]

I re-checked Live Timing and RBR at every split is roughly 2-5kph slower than Mercedes so whatever deficit RBR has in raw power, they are making it up somehow.

Their car is aerodynamically better, they reach better apex speeds than anyone else. But they can´t translate that advantage onto the straights (yet), as there is a "hole" before their ERS system kicks in (I don´t know how to explain it better, you ever drove an older turbo or automatic shift car, where it took a sec from kicking the pedal down til the car jumped?), which is longer than for the others.
No one outside RBR/Renault knows, if this is a mechanical problem, or rather engine electronics (like Dr Marko likes to imply).

 

[malyce]

If RBR is really cornering like they say, then its a wrap once they get the power sorted out. Vettel's car seemed really well planted in the last part of Q2. Still think teams were sand bagging though. Button was only .8 shy of Ham's time on the hard tire, compared to all the other teams lapping 2 seconds faster on the softs. Still only FP2, so not much to take from it really. We'll see come quali and race.

 

[massivekettle]

Their car is aerodynamically better, they reach better apex speeds than anyone else. But they can´t translate that advantage onto the straights (yet), as there is a "hole" before their ERS system kicks in (I don´t know how to explain it better, you ever drove an older turbo or automatic shift car, where it took a sec from kicking the pedal down til the car jumped?), which is longer than for the others.
No one outside RBR/Renault knows, if this is a mechanical problem, or rather engine electronics (like Dr Marko likes to imply).

Split sector times are at the end of long straights or fast sections (S2 and S3 speeds are more indicative than S1) - so apex speeds are not as relevant.

I get your point, but whatever issues they have - either it's huge and they will lap everyone in Barcelona, or it's overblown and Renault is running much better than it used to in Bahrain and will therefore be fine aside from worries re: reliability.

 

[Hammer24]

..., then its a wrap once they get the power sorted out...

Well, Merc has the next aero set ready, which is said to bring .2sec; and that's not even taking into account the revolutionary new front wing which didn´t pass the crash test yet.
So the least we can expect is an exciting season with a lot of back and forth.

 

[massivekettle]

If RBR is really cornering like they say, then its a wrap once they get the power sorted out. Vettel's car seemed really well planted in the last part of Q2. Still think teams were sand bagging though. Button was only .8 shy of Ham's time on the hard tire, compared to all the other teams lapping 2 seconds faster on the softs. Still only FP2, so not much to take from it really. We'll see come quali and race.

BTW, Button's 1:30.5 was on softs, not medium, if that's what you were referring to.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Their car is aerodynamically better, they reach better apex speeds than anyone else. But they can´t translate that advantage onto the straights (yet), as there is a "hole" before their ERS system kicks in (I don´t know how to explain it better, you ever drove an older turbo or automatic shift car, where it took a sec from kicking the pedal down til the car jumped?), which is longer than for the others.
No one outside RBR/Renault knows, if this is a mechanical problem, or rather engine electronics (like Dr Marko likes to imply).

Turbo lag?

 

[Hammer24]

Turbo lag?

English is obviously not my first language, so that might be a better term.

 

[malyce]

BTW, Button's 1:30.5 was on softs, not medium, if that's what you were referring to.

Oh ok, was just going by the app/chart. We'll know for sure who has what pace in a few hours.

Well, Merc has the next aero set ready, which is said to bring .2sec; and that's not even taking into account the revolutionary new front wing which didn´t pass the crash test yet.
So the least we can expect is an exciting season with a lot of back and forth.

What's so "revolutionary" about said front wing? and what's to stop the other teams from copying it?

 

[massivekettle]

Well, Merc has the next aero set ready, which is said to bring .2sec; and that's not even taking into account the revolutionary new front wing which didn´t pass the crash test yet.
So the least we can expect is an exciting season with a lot of back and forth.

Oh ok, was just going by the app/chart. We'll know for sure who has what pace in a few hours.


What's so "revolutionary" about said front wing? and what's to stop the other teams from copying it?

FYI - it's not FW, it's a nose. FW is already on the car. Nose is apparently much shorter which is what makes it more challenging, engineering-wise.

Will be very hard to copy, I guess; considering how long it's taking Mercedes to actually produce it.

 

[Hammer24]

FYI - it's not FW, it's a nose. FW is already on the car. Nose is apparently much shorter which is what makes it more challenging, engineering-wise.

Yes, sorry, you are right, I mixed it up. The nose is so short, it is not going over the front wing. Its crash box is only 75cm long, which is why it didn´t make it through this weeks crash test. The nose in itself, aerodynamically, is done and ready. They "only" have to find a way to make it structurally stiffer to make it through the crash test. Some say that's impossible, some say it could be done by next race.

Will be very hard to copy, I guess; considering how long it's taking Mercedes to actually produce it.

Aside from said structural problems, the nose/fw combo is the first thing standing in the wind, changing the aero of the whole car. To copy a concept radically different from what you have, means basically designing a new car, with lots of wind tunnel hours.

 

[Shaneus]

Yeah, I can see that, especially if Williams get a lot more points than them. As much as I love to hate on Pastor, I can't fault him for going to Lotus from Williams based on form going into this season.

Not too dissimilar to what happened when Webber decided to go with Williams rather than Renault. I think that was around the time Alonso won with them.

Oh, almost forgot. Steam tells me that F1 2013 is F2P this weekend to celebrate the start of the season. Shame I can't be home to enjoy it, but it's there if anyone wants.

 

[Nicktendo86]

English is obviously not my first language, so that might be a better term.

That's really interesting, I'm sure I saw on a Ted's notebook or something Renault state that they had taken measures to reduce turbo lag... Not enough obviously!

 

[DrM]

So this new nose on Mercedes would be so short that FW would be mounted on tip of it? And this would mean very steep nose drop, if i envisioned this correctly.

Here is the original picture, if someone wants it for background

 

[Hammer24]

That's really interesting, I'm sure I saw on a Ted's notebook or something Renault state that they had taken measures to reduce turbo lag... Not enough obviously!

Yes. Dr Marko was/is adamant that its a mere software problem, said they sent all their software engineers to Renault, working in shifts, to sort this out. At first it was so bad, the batteries didn´t even fully load. Now they made great strides, but there is still more lag than in the other engines.

So this new nose on Mercedes would be so short that FW would be mounted on tip of it? And this would mean very steep nose drop, if i envisioned this correctly.

That's what its basically all about, the wing would be at the very tip, or even an elongation, of the nose.

 

[Pimpwerx]

What are early pole time projections? And when do we have to lock in teams and picks for F1 Manager? It looks like its after qualies. PEACE.

 

[Zeknurn]

What are early pole time projections? And when do we have to lock in teams and picks for F1 Manager? It looks like its after qualies. PEACE.

You can make changes up until one hour before qualifier starts.

 

[mclem]

Yeah, I'm currently flailing about a bit pondering where the pole time will lie.

 

[brotkasten]

Aside from said structural problems, the nose/fw combo is the first thing standing in the wind, changing the aero of the whole car. To copy a concept radically different from what you have, means basically designing a new car, with lots of wind tunnel hours.

And we all know how well that worked for Ferrari in 2011.

Anyone here got the gif with the flappy Ferrari front wing?

 

[Hammer24]

Yeah, I'm currently flailing about a bit pondering where the pole time will lie.

I´d say a low 1.28 should be in reach.

 

[massivekettle]

I´d say a low 1.28 should be in reach.

I think they will go down in the low 1:27s, high 1:26s.

 

[Hammer24]

That´d be an amazing feat.

 

[massivekettle]

That´d be an amazing feat.

In Bahrain, they were 1 second off pole time (2012 and 2013). AUS pole time in 2012 (last dry pole in AUS) was 1:24.9.

They still haven't turned up the engines yet.

 

[Stratosphere]

I went to my first ever GP at the inaugural US GP in Austin 2 years ago. It was such an awesome experience, but being new to this sort of thing, I didn't plan it out so well. By the time I tried to get hotels, just about everything was sold out. My dad, brother, and I had to stay in two different hotels for our two nights there. Both were on the outskirts of Austin, and both were charging obscene rent. Then we had to drive to one of the bus pickup stops downtown, and walk nearly a mile to the track from the bus drop off. At my dad's age this definitely wasn't ideal. The event itself left a great impression on me, however, and I'd like to go back this year

But I want to do it right this time. I'm looking for advice from any experienced GP goers out there. Is it better to find some sort of package deal with tickets/hotel? Is it worth buying the weekend parking pass? Since my dad is handicapped, is there some sort of handicap parking that we could take advantage of? Does anyone recommend some quality hotels? I just want to have the best experience possible this time, and not worry about all this extraneous stuff once I'm there.

Bumping this for the daytime crowd.

I've never done Austin, but in general packages aren't really required, and you can generally find out what hotels to go for by looking on TripAdvisor at what's near to the track and highly rated. As a general rule you should book as early as possible (in some cases just days after the race date is announced) as the best hotels book quickly (and many put their prices up once they know).

Thanks for the tips. I plan to book this weekend if everything works out. Does anybody else have advice for hotels/parking that's done Austin before?

 

[Hammer24]

In Bahrain, they were 1 second off pole time (2012 and 2013). AUS pole time in 2012 (last dry pole in AUS) was 1:24.9.

I think its hard to compare. Winter testing in Bahrain is a lot cooler than the pole times from the race weekends. And comparing the AUS FP times...
But who knows, I´m ready to be pleasantly surprised!

 

[mclem]

In Bahrain, they were 1 second off pole time (2012 and 2013). AUS pole time in 2012 (last dry pole in AUS) was 1:24.9.

That's a point; is quali definitely dry?

(And thanks for pointing that out, my initial guess was based on 2013, not taking into account the weather!)

 

[TylerD]

formula 1

lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2KDcyJmxIc

Moto GP 2013 onboard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QYJNsGn_Vo&t=35s

What the fuck have you done FIA?


EDIT: I do have to say that the technology involved in these new regs is pretty amazing.

 

[Hasney]

That's a point; is quali definitely dry?

(And thanks for pointing that out, my initial guess was based on 2013, not taking into account the weather!)

Nothing is definite when it comes to Australia GP weather. Think the last forecast I saw posted here said possible showers on Saturday.

 

[ElTorro]

Seems like it's going to rain during Qualifying. Predictions say 60-90% probability for rain.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Seems like it's going to rain during Qualifying. Predictions say 60-90% probability for rain.

As a McLaren fan I say good!

 

[Hammer24]

Seems like it's going to rain during Qualifying. Predictions say 60-90% probability for rain.

This´ll be fun!

 

[Big Takeover]

Hamilton on what these cars will be like in the rain : "Pfff, I mean it's going to be a disaster". Ok, he's half-joking, but that torque is going to be very challenging for sure.

That's a great two part interview if you guys haven't checked it out yet.

 

[brotkasten]

I'll be going out tonight, but I have to be really careful not to get drunk too much, so that I can leave early enough and still catch quali. Fuck, seeing what I just wrote, that sounds impossible.

 

[Chris R]

Thanks for the tips. I plan to book this weekend if everything works out. Does anybody else have advice for hotels/parking that's done Austin before?

I stayed in San Antonio because it was free (through a friend). Made it worth it even if I had to drive 85 miles each way every day for the race.

Have you looked into how much a on site parking pass would be? And if not they did have a few golf carts running people from the shuttle drop off to the entrance, so that would cut that part of the walk out (you would still need to walk to your seats from there).

 

[cilonen]

There's no sugar coating this... these things sound fucking abysmal. Total shite. I can't imagine the disappointment at hearing them live after the previous generation of engines.

 

[Pimpwerx]

I´d say a low 1.28 should be in reach.

I think they will go down in the low 1:27s, high 1:26s.

My prediction so far is a low 1:28. I wanted to say lower, but I don't know if the track will rubber-in as quick with these new tires. PEACE.

 

[ElTorro]

Red Bull have found an interessting way to mount the TV camera.

 

[Ruruja]

There's no sugar coating this... these things sound fucking abysmal. Total shite. I can't imagine the disappointment at hearing them live after the previous generation of engines.

Just seen Practice highlights, I didn't think they were that bad when they released those audio snippets on YouTube, but they sound absolutely dreadful, just so quiet.

 

[captscience]

There's no sugar coating this... these things sound fucking abysmal. Total shite. I can't imagine the disappointment at hearing them live after the previous generation of engines.

Yeah....I was cautiously optimistic after watching a few youtube videos during testing but the actual broadcast sounds terrible. Watching the onboard lap with RIC, I was convinced he was on a slow out lap due to the sound.

Hopefully they can find a way to mic the tracks or process the sound to give the engines some more kick. I'm sure they sound more muffled on TV than in real life.

 

[AndyD]

Thanks for the tips. I plan to book this weekend if everything works out. Does anybody else have advice for hotels/parking that's done Austin before?

We went to Austin and had a blast. We did stay in a hotel in Marble Falls, about 45 minutes west but it was 120 a night for a giant suite shared between 4 of us. As to parking we also did the bus but I would look at something better, such as those homes near the track that rent out their yard. Our r friends parked there for 150 for the weekend and the homeowners drove them to the gates and picked them up (the homeowners are allowed to drive on the closed roads to get to their home ).

 

[DBT85]

Red Bull have found an interessting way to mount the TV camera.

Interesting. Surprised they are allowed to do that.

 

[ElTorro]

Interesting. Surprised they are allowed to do that.

It's under the vanity panel. Guess that's the reason.

 

[massivekettle]

My prediction so far is a low 1:28. I wanted to say lower, but I don't know if the track will rubber-in as quick with these new tires. PEACE.

Saw some onboards; some teams are definitely pushing harder than I thought. Maybe high 1:27s then for pole. I also did not take into account the fact that tyres this year are harder...

That's a point; is quali definitely dry?

(And thanks for pointing that out, my initial guess was based on 2013, not taking into account the weather!)

Who knows - I would rather have it dry so that we can have a small idea of the pecking order. Rain/damp qualifying is all going to be about who laps at the best time/last.

 

[Spazo]

So no more F1LT this season, charging to have live timing on phone app and some features were removed from the f1 website live timing ?

Way to go FOM....

it sucks

 

[Mastah]

There’s an exception to this though, a car that has braking stability and corner entry downforce that’s of a different order to anything else – and it’s the Red Bull. Whenever Renault Sport gets that engine anywhere near as good as the Mercedes motor, the RB10 is gone.

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/whos-got-the-new-formula-figured-out/

Please, no.

 

[DrM]

Please, no.

Also from that link

The Mercedes-powered drivers don’t need to worry as much about this as the others for the efficiency of their energy recovery is such that even around Albert Park – a circuit with the second or third highest fuel consumption of the year – Mercedes teams were considering not putting in the full 100kg of fuel and perhaps short-fuelling. It implies that it’s quite feasible there will be no circuits on the calendar where the Mercs are fuel-limited.

“If that’s the case,” said one Renault-engined team engineer, “then they might as well give the trophies out now.” Ferrari and Renault are nowhere near achieving this at the moment.

Hm, i wonder how much fuel Mercedes is looking to carry in race...maybe they went aggressive and tested with Nico how low can they go with projection?

And reason for RBR camera solution:

Tobias Grüner F1 ‏@tgruener 3h

@geo1302 Conventional camera mountings allow rearward facing view. Last year it showed the RB9 splitter while driving. RB did not like it.

 

[torontoml]

Just subscribing, first time hearing the cars today during a replay of p2 and I'm disappointed, don't get the same feel I used to get from the sound of a car going by.

 

[massivekettle]

What does Newey do that others can't? You take off his flexi-wings, EBD, engine maps, beam wings and the man still produces something that's in a class of its own....

Hopefully Renault doesn't recover/match the Mercedes/Ferrari engines. That's the only thing preventing another 2011/2013.

 

[Ark]

What does Newey do that others can't? You take off his flexi-wings, EBD, engine maps, beam wings and the man still produces something that's in a class of its own....

Hopefully Renault doesn't recover/match the Mercedes/Ferrari engines. That's the only thing preventing another 2011/2013.

It's not just Newey, he's got an equally talented technical team surrounding him. When he retires in a few years nothing will change at RBR other than the name of their CTO.

Newey is like the Schumacher of car designers. Relentless in his pursuit of the perfect car (though it seems, to our detriment, that he's found a way to stop them from exploding).