• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The Formula 1 2014 Season |OT| Who Will Win? Nobody Nose

Status
Not open for further replies.
I

itsgreen

Member
Ark said:
The only reason it's 'turning into a joke' is because of people who think the 'spirit' of F1 is the noise and not the racing.
Click to expand...

Atleast for me a big part of watching F1 on track is the sound. The tremendous amount of noise as it passes you in Eau Rouge is awesome. You can feel it in your stomach. It's an experience.

And it isn't the same without that noise. You could clearly hear in the last years when someone wasn't pushing and it was a lesser experience when they drove by.
 
Myoclonic Jerk

Myoclonic Jerk

Member
Ark said:
The only reason it's 'turning into a joke' is because of people who think the 'spirit' of F1 is the noise and not the racing.
Click to expand...

Not just the noise, which is a huge part. this rules changes every few years is ridiculous, so many things became artificial. And everytime the "reason" to change the rules is not met. We had a great season in 2008 prior to the first recent shake up, and in 2009 we had a stupid farce of a season. Last year was amazing if they didn't succumb to Redbull's pressure and changed the tyres, the season could've seen a completely different outcome. Stick to the basics and stop over-complicating the sport and fall into self-made traps which makes FiA introduce even more gimmicky solutions to the problems they have created!

It's a dangerous spiral the sport is getting itself into. KERS, DRS, forced use of 2 tyres compounds, no refueling, platypus, dick noses, front wing adjuster, 1 million winglets, Double defuser, blown difuser, engine braking, Traction Control, tyre covers, grooved tyres, slicks..etc all in a span of what? 8 years?? ENOUGH!!!!

I consider myself somehow knowledgeable in F1 as I've been following it it since 1996. Now a days it has so many gadgets and gimmicks that I don't even understand anymore.

For example here are few things that I don't know and I'm not even bothered to know them coz I got tired of all the changes:

- What's the KERS/ERS capacity now
- What are the rules of using it? is there a time limit per lap just like KERS before?
- The new fuel regulation is 100kg?
- Qualifying changed a bit, what happened there?

So many times I take new people to watch F1 races with me. I find it really difficult now to explain the sport to them with all those gimmicks. I reach a point where I can see they lost interest half-way and just start nodding and wait for me to finish explaining how the racing works. Followed by the usual comment (given that I'm a Kimi fan), "Ferrari kicked ass with schumacher if only he was still there"
 
P

Psychotext

Member
Myoclonic Jerk said:
Last year was amazing if they didn't succumb to Redbull's pressure and changed the tyres, the season could've seen a completely different outcome.
Click to expand...

Why do you feel the need to re-write history like this?

1: Red Bull was winning quite comfortably before the tyres got changed. At the end of Monaco (before any changes had been made), Vettel was already 20 points clear and Red Bull 39 points clear. At the end of Germany (last race before completely new tyres, but after using modified tyres), Vettel was 34 points clear, Red Bull 41 points clear.
2: More teams than just Red Bull were pushing for tyre changes.
3: The vote for tyre changes was unanimous. Racing couldn't continue on those tyres after the farce that was Silverstone.
 
I

itsgreen

Member
I want the 2008 rules back :(

Love the weirdness of 2008 wings, winglets, aero features... the big rear wing... they were all great.

08-09-06-gp-belgique-mclaren-7.jpg


Just look at that glorious bastard. Love her.
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
Ark said:
The only reason it's 'turning into a joke' is because of people who think the 'spirit' of F1 is the noise and not the racing.
Click to expand...

brofist.gif

itsgreen said:
Atleast for me a big part of watching F1 on track is the sound. The tremendous amount of noise as it passes you in Eau Rouge is awesome. You can feel it in your stomach. It's an experience.

And it isn't the same without that noise. You could clearly hear in the last years when someone wasn't pushing and it was a lesser experience when they drove by.
Click to expand...

I can understand this point too. There was no better place to really experience F1 than on the stand after La Source, where the roof and backwall channeled the sound directly into your body.
But that doesn´t excuse the hefty nitpicking of people, who only herad the new cars on TV yet.

Myoclonic Jerk said:
- What's the KERS/ERS capacity now ~160hp
- What are the rules of using it? is there a time limit per lap just like KERS before? 33secs per lap
- The new fuel regulation is 100kg? yes, down from 150kg last year *
- Qualifying changed a bit, what happened there? please give a reference as compared to what year
Click to expand...

* ...but keep in mind, if a driver says he had to cruise because he was low on fuel, than it is this years version of bad wind tunnel data.

itsgreen said:
I want the 2008 rules back :(

Love the weirdness of 2008 wings, winglets, aero features... the big rear wing... they were all great.

http://www.allmotorsportpictures.co...13belgique/08-09-06-gp-belgique-mclaren-7.jpg

Just look at that glorious bastard. Love her.
Click to expand...

Well, aesthetics are always in the eye of the beholder. But when I see how much more important driving skills are this year compared to the last, I have no wish to go back.
And for reference, I follow F1 since 1986. :)
 
R

Razgreez

Member
itsgreen said:
I want the 2008 rules back :(

Love the weirdness of 2008 wings, winglets, aero features... the big rear wing... they were all great.

http://www.allmotorsportpictures.com/wp-content/gallery/f1/2008/f1-mclaren-2008-13belgique/08-09-06-gp-belgique-mclaren-7.jpg[img]

Just look at that glorious bastard. Love her.[/QUOTE]

These cars were hideous frankensteinian things. Kinda like most modern cars except that the ugly aesthetics on the F1 cars had actual aerodynamic benefits meanwhile the folds and creases on modern cars are just there to waste extra sheet metal and look ugly
Click to expand...
 
K

king picollo

Member
The noise isn't the same, but the driving this season is much better, watching them fight for grip and actually drive the nuts off their cars is great.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
I prefer the simpler lines from 2004:
HrtZ7v9l.jpg

Us3xwq6l.jpg

DouSW2tl.jpg

EP6JIGKl.jpg


With how complicated and intricate aero is now, is there any way of comparing how much downforce there is now compared to back then? I guess there's more downforce nowadays, but couldn't say for sure. Or maybe it's not such an easy question to answer, I dunno.
 
Myoclonic Jerk

Myoclonic Jerk

Member
Psychotext said:
Why do you feel the need to re-write history like this?

1: Red Bull was winning quite comfortably before the tyres got changed. At the end of Monaco (before any changes had been made), Vettel was already 20 points clear and Red Bull 39 points clear. At the end of Germany (last race before completely new tyres, but after using modified tyres), Vettel was 34 points clear, Red Bull 41 points clear.
2: More teams than just Red Bull were pushing for tyre changes.
3: The vote for tyre changes was unanimous. Racing couldn't continue on those tyres after the farce that was Silverstone.
Click to expand...


I'm not re-writing history. I don't think the tyre change was unanimous. Lotus made it publicly clear that they're happy with the tyres and if Redbull did a bad job with their design they should "deal with it" and not try to "change the tyres to suit them better".

As for the results, Seb wasn't dominant, and Ferrari and Lotus were much closer to Redbull, and I think we wouldn't have seen 9 consecutive victories from Seb if the tyres were not changed.

EDIT: anyway, my point is. Look at last year, and look at this.. Which one would you have preferred to have? Mercedes is out of reach from race one and I don't think anyone would be able to catch them. Season is over only after 5 races! It's ridiculous.. I know that there's no way to prevent a team from being dominant in a major shake up in the rules. But here's the question. Why the need to shake up the rules in this way every few years?? And now they're pushing for cost cuts!! Consistency in rules is what will enable teams to develop some economy of scale and take the costs down. FiA is just running around aimlessly like a headless checkin. What do they want? More entertaining sport? More overtakes? Environmentally friendly? Cheaper sport? Attract more manufacturers? remain the pinnacle of motor-sports?

For me, the way they're doing things shows that they're in a panic mode for some reason and their decisions are being influenced by external powers. The change in the sport is not happening organically or in an organised way at all. I bet if you ask them for a 5 years business plan they will have a stack of empty pages. They have no idea where are they heading
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
Myoclonic Jerk said:
Why the need to shake up the rules in this way every few years?? And now they're pushing for cost cuts!! Consistency in rules is what will enable teams to develop some economy of scale and take the costs down. FiA is just running around aimlessly like a headless checkin. What do they want? More entertaining sport? More overtakes? Environmentally friendly? Cheaper sport? Attract more manufacturers? remain the pinnacle of motor-sports?
Click to expand...

Let´s clear this up once and for all people, shall we?
The changes we saw to this season, were due to the engine manufacturers demanding them. THEY WOULD HAVE LEFT THE SPORT, if those would not have been agreed upon. Honda would not have come. Thus, F1 as a battlefield of car manufacturers would have been gone for good.
As for consistency, it was agreed upon, that these engines are here to stay for a couple years at least. Seeing how happy everyone is now about the synergy effects between their racing and street car departments, I´d say it will be many years.
The now ongoing discussion about cost cutting is the result of the big guys not agreeing to a spending cap. Let´s see what they come up with, before we get judgmental, OK?

And as far as the MER dominance is concerned: I do understand it sucks for people supporting other teams / drivers. But keep in mind, this sport employs some of the brightest minds in car engineering. They wont be able to close the gap this year. It might even take the first half of next season, but in the end they´ll get very close again. :)
 
R

Razgreez

Member
Shaneus said:
I prefer the simpler lines from 2004:

With how complicated and intricate aero is now, is there any way of comparing how much downforce there is now compared to back then? I guess there's more downforce nowadays, but couldn't say for sure. Or maybe it's not such an easy question to answer, I dunno.
Click to expand...

There was more downforce back then (in the past). The rules have always attempted to decrease the level of downforce and thus decrease the cornering speeds and lap times. Teams do find more and more innovative ways to improve downforce however, as can be seen by the lap records of older tracks not being broken in the last 10yrs, everytime they get closer to where they were before the FIA changes the rules to push the teams further back again
 
Myoclonic Jerk

Myoclonic Jerk

Member
Hammer24 said:
Let´s clear this up once and for all people, shall we?
The changes we saw to this season, were due to the engine manufacturers demanding them. THEY WOULD HAVE LEFT THE SPORT, if those would not have been agreed upon. Honda would not have come. Thus, F1 as a battlefield of car manufacturers would have been gone for good.
As for consistency, it was agreed upon, that these engines are here to stay for a couple years at least. Seeing how happy everyone is now about the synergy effects between their racing and street car departments, I´d say it will be many years.
The now ongoing discussion about cost cutting is the result of the big guys not agreeing to a spending cap. Let´s see what they come up with, before we get judgmental, OK?

And as far as the MER dominance is concerned: I do understand it sucks for people supporting other teams / drivers. But keep in mind, this sport employs some of the brightest minds in car engineering. They wont be able to close the gap this year. It might even take the first half of next season, but in the end they´ll get very close again. :)
Click to expand...

2009 shake up? 2005? Ok the latter was to bring down the speed of the cars because they became "dangerously" fast.. What a lame excuse
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
Myoclonic Jerk said:
2009 shake up? 2005? Ok the latter was to bring down the speed of the cars because they became "dangerously" fast.. What a lame excuse
Click to expand...

The last fatality in a F1 car was 2002, and in a F1 race it was Senna in 1994. I for one am happy the FIA is erring on the side of caution with this.
 
B

Big Takeover

Member
I always identify the pre-2009 wide rear wing, and the pre-98' wide track as the things I miss most about how F1 cars look. I miss the more open cockpit too, but because the change was such a necessity, I don't think about it the same way as some arbitrary change.

I don't get too hung up on that stuff though. Other than the noses, the current cars look plenty good.
 
Myoclonic Jerk

Myoclonic Jerk

Member
Hammer24 said:
The last fatality in a F1 car was 2002, and in a F1 race it was Senna in 1994. I for one am happy the FIA is erring on the side of caution with this.
Click to expand...

The only one attributable to F1 safety would be 1994. Fritz died on a non-FiA approved F1 circuit if I'm not mistaken. Or a circuit that's not up to date with the safety standards in a very old car. And we all know Senna's accident wasn't due to speed it was a freak accident just like Villota
 
H

Hammer24

Banned
Myoclonic Jerk said:
And we all know Senna's accident wasn't due to speed it was a freak accident just like Villota
Click to expand...

That's oversimplifying it, IMO. Here is what Alesi had to say:
"That year, the cars were extremely critical concerning changes to chassis clearance. After the ban on passive cars the engineers tried to make the cars as aerodynamic as possible, but they didn´t have the right tools for it like today. The race track was their wind tunnel.
We tried countless undercarriages. I remember, that Williams had a problem with their rear axle, because this was built like a wing. But the problem was, that the downforce immediately stalled, as soon as the car was just a bit off the straight line. The car simply went airborne."
link

They had to act. And a lot of this, by definition, is trial and error, as we are talking prototype cars here. You do have a good understanding what you want to achieve with your rule changes. But the best engineers in the world are desperately trying to undo your good intentions.
 
R

RukusProvider

Banned
Hammer24 said:
Let´s clear this up once and for all people, shall we?
The changes we saw to this season, were due to the engine manufacturers demanding them. THEY WOULD HAVE LEFT THE SPORT, if those would not have been agreed upon. Honda would not have come. Thus, F1 as a battlefield of car manufacturers would have been gone for good.
As for consistency, it was agreed upon, that these engines are here to stay for a couple years at least. Seeing how happy everyone is now about the synergy effects between their racing and street car departments, I´d say it will be many years.
The now ongoing discussion about cost cutting is the result of the big guys not agreeing to a spending cap. Let´s see what they come up with, before we get judgmental, OK?

And as far as the MER dominance is concerned: I do understand it sucks for people supporting other teams / drivers. But keep in mind, this sport employs some of the brightest minds in car engineering. They wont be able to close the gap this year. It might even take the first half of next season, but in the end they´ll get very close again. :)
Click to expand...

The changes aren't the problem. It's the lack of testing and restriction that kills competitiveness.

If you're going do a major overhaul, then the following season should allow for open testing for everyone to make their cars reliable and competitive.

Then you can go back to adding the caps to control budgets and such.

Your "they will catch up in 1.5 years!" can easily be shortened if the teams were allowed more freedom in development and testing through the course of this season.
 
D

Deadman

Member
The '96 williams above is my favourite looking car. I miss the wider and lower rear wings, I think they look a lot better than the thin and tall ones.
 
D

DrM

Redmond's Baby
As rumors fly, Mercedes currently houses the most accurate simulator in F1. Probably developed with big help from Mercedes (they have whole department for driving simulators). Just check what kind of tech they developed in 2010
mercedes-benz-driving-simulator-12C1240_001.jpg
 
S

Shaneus

Member
Razgreez said:
There was more downforce back then (in the past). The rules have always attempted to decrease the level of downforce and thus decrease the cornering speeds and lap times. Teams do find more and more innovative ways to improve downforce however, as can be seen by the lap records of older tracks not being broken in the last 10yrs, everytime they get closer to where they were before the FIA changes the rules to push the teams further back again
Click to expand...
Ahhh... that makes the most sense, then. Incredible that with less downforce and less powerful cars that we're still able to see track records get broken (like you said). Says a lot for the engineers these days.

Just wish it didn't result in such overly complex-looking cars. Even if there was a way they could borrow something from the Formula E aesthetic:
6E9SBo5.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Gran Turismo 7 Update 1.34 adds 3 new cars, Engine Swap, extra Cafe Menus and more
News Platform
24
3K
Con_Z_ǝdʇ replied
Gran Turismo 7 - April Update arrives today April 26 at 10pm PST
News
19
2K
Senua replied
2020 IndyCar OT
30
2K
hariseldon replied
Formula 1 2017 Season |OT2| A Dutch Horror Story - Sundays on Sky
54 55 56 57 58
3K
331K
Grieves replied
  • Locked
Formula 1 2017 Season |OT| Japanese Horror Story - Sundays on Sky
405 406 407 408 409
20K
2M
JDB replied
Top Bottom