I disagree. The V8's sounded like a moped compared to the V12's to me. The V10's didn't sound nice.
Listen to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EctHizz_yNo
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The Formula 1 2014 Season |OT| Who Will Win? Nobody Nose
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I disagree. The V8's sounded like a moped compared to the V12's to me. The V10's didn't sound nice.
Listen to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EctHizz_yNo
theignoramus
Member
The onboard audio for the highest revving v10s and v8s dont do justice to the way those cars sound.
A good deal is lost when you cant hear the sounds reverberate around the track.
This is pure track of audio of Alonso doing a flying lap in a v8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpnP3ot_LPE
While we seem to be in agreement about V12s sounding the best, the V8 was simply no slouch.
The fuel flow limit is why the new V6 engines sound poor compared to the past.
If there was no fuel limit and they were going to the 15000rpm limit all the time they would probably sound fantastic.
Being limited to 10000rpm mutes the exhaust noise and resonance.
If there was no fuel limit and they were going to the 15000rpm limit all the time they would probably sound fantastic.
Being limited to 10000rpm mutes the exhaust noise and resonance.
Ethical Hedonism
Banned
This was probably answered a number of times before, so sorry if it was, but why did they limit the RPM? Was it for engine longevity?
I thought they weren't limited by RPM but by fuel flow... 100kg/hr
Right. I think there is also an RPM limit but they are nowhere near close.
What's the argument for the fuel flow max? Why not just mandate an average, allowing boost periods mixed with coast periods. I have read about safety as letting these engines roar at max could blow them, and also the great power/speed differential between coast/boost cars. Would the difference be that dramatic?
Sounds better, but still very high pitched and missing oomph.
But again, what I'm saying is that there's always been complaints. Things change, some for the better, some for the worse. But either way, standstill is not an option in a sport like F1. There's too much drama and hysteria surrounding everything, especially the engine noise.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
The Honda RA272 is pure filth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnc45IGpYo0
I can't find any on boad footage though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnc45IGpYo0
I can't find any on boad footage though
Yea but they also wanted to improve fuel efficiency. There was also a safety reason
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113141
RPM limit is 15000, Merc are the closest right now with 12700 peaks.
The cars having turbos would mean they would go up to 1500hp without the fuel flow limit. The engines wouldn´t hold for a single lap.
It´d defy the purpose. Whenever someone tries to overtake you with his "boost", you would simply use the same "boost" yourself. And the last twenty laps everyone would have to drive pedestrian and we´d be bored out of our skulls.
Which is stupid handholding. Let the teams take the risk if they want.
The argument about them using up all their fuel seems a bit silly when they don't use up their tyres and then just coast.
But the teams DO NOT want it, that's the point. The teams agreed to that limitation, to save costs on engines.
Haas will defo be 2016, and they are going with FER engines from what it looks like right now.
brotkasten
Member
From Hilarious Racing Team to Fucking Ridiculous Racing.
Great. Can't wait.
Great. Can't wait.
Ethical Hedonism
Banned
theignoramus
Member
then why were key personnel from Red Bull, (Newey) Ferrari (de Montezemolo) and Force India (Mallya) complaining about the sound earlier in the season? Surely they knew the result of what they'd "collectively" agreed upon.
We know at least since winter testing what the cars sound like. Yet the only "key personnel" I can remember coming out by themselves with criticism were VET (frustrated by the difficult start into the season) and BE (mad that the teams agreed to something without him pulling the strings).
The rest were answers to silly reporter questions.
Yagami_Sama
Member
McLaren at the Canadian Grand Prix
Wins 13 (1968, 1973, 1974, 1976, 1988, 1990, 1992, 1999, 2005, 2007, 2010, 2011, 2012)
Good times.
There are some rumblings that FER offered them very low price for their engine, just to get another team...
I wonder what will Mercedes do to lure another team in 2015 or in 2016.
Fox Mulder
Member
it probably makes sense for a new team to go with a Ferrari discount over presumably paying more for a superior merc engine.
That's what I heard as well. FER needs more data.
My understanding is, that MER is not interested in supplying more teams right now. The thinking is, that while getting money for the engines is nice, but they want to offer good service too, and think they wont be able to with more teams.
But they are losing McLaren.
That's why they took on WIL. And they feel stretched this year.
So they can run at lower revs. But removing the option is stupid. If they want a rev limit, make it a rev limit. Now we have two rev limits. The actual one and the de facto one.
No my friend, I think you underestimate F1 engineers. We have one rev limit, and it will be met in the not too distant future.
how many of those did maldonado cause?
No my friend, I think you underestimate F1 engineers. We have one rev limit, and it will be met in the not too distant future.
Maybe, but rev's x displacement = fuel use. If they want to reduce fuel use, then give less fuel during a race. If they want to reduce the cost of engines, introduce a rev limit. But that is enough, having a fuel flow limit is stupid.
Edit: Sorry if that sounded a bit angry, didn't mean to
Maybe, but rev's x displacement = fuel use. If they want to reduce fuel use, then give less fuel during a race. If they want to reduce the cost of engines, introduce a rev limit. But that is enough, having a fuel flow limit is stupid.
Edit: Sorry if that sounded a bit angry, didn't mean to
Lets try to see it from a different light:
- fuel limit got greatly reduced
That was before the engines were even in concept stage, and initially no one even knew if and how they´d be able to reach those. No one had built an engine like these before, so no one had real data to check on.
- fuel flow limit
But they had experience with turbo engines. And they knew what toll a turbo takes on an engine. Knowing that in engine development and usage is one of the biggest cost savings available (not just for the manufacturers, but for the small customer teams as well that now have to buy less engines), they introduced the FFL, so the turbo would be held in check, greatly reducing the strain on the engine, thus making them much less likely to break.
- rev limit got greatly reduced
They went from 18000 to 15000, again guessing with no data on the new engines.
Now remember, in the first race of the season the "experts" expected cars to coast home, with teams being in fuel problems. No one even broke 10500 rpm.
Right now we just saw race 6 of 19, and no one really gets into any kind of fuel problem, quite contrary we now see rpm up to 12700. So yeah, I fully expect even this year cars getting to the 15k limit, and if not this season then at least in winter testing to next season.
All I want to say is, lets give the new rules time, until the magicians actually get to them, and lets do a conclusion after the last race. As you surely saw from my posts this year, I´m very excited by the new cars. No more driving on rails, actually seeing different driving styles.
Myoclonic Jerk
Member
EDIT: site banned so I removed the post
I find the technology of the new engines exciting and actually relevant to what the automotive industry is working towards.
Ask the same people that still are complaining about the noise what they think F1 should be and the answer in most cases probably is 'pioneer in technology' but at the same time they'd want the atmospheric V10/V8 back.
WEC gets so much less shit for this with their LMP1 class, the Audi's are so quiet you can hear them going over rumble strips but they're beautiful, technologically advanced machines. No wonder that formula is quickly gaining interest among manufacturers.
Ask the same people that still are complaining about the noise what they think F1 should be and the answer in most cases probably is 'pioneer in technology' but at the same time they'd want the atmospheric V10/V8 back.
WEC gets so much less shit for this with their LMP1 class, the Audi's are so quiet you can hear them going over rumble strips but they're beautiful, technologically advanced machines. No wonder that formula is quickly gaining interest among manufacturers.
LicenceToK1ll
Member
18000? They originally wanted to go with 12000:
The FIA has confirmed that a 15,000rpm rev limit will be imposed on Formula 1 engines from 2014 onwards.
Teams will switch from the current 2.4-litre naturally-aspirated V8s to V6 1.6-litre turbos in 2014. However, there had been concerns that the originally-planned rev limit of 12,000 rpm would detract from the spectacle.
Confirmation of the increase to 15,000, which formed part of the 2014 F1 Technical Regulations released by the FIA yesterday, will go some way toward allaying those fears.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93204
They will be hitting the limiter in the middle of the first straight.
Psychotext
Member
Sounds like a pretty stupid decision. So basically they're completely screwed there and Monza.
LicenceToK1ll
Member
18000 was last years rule, 15000 is now.
Whoops misunderstood that
Well they had to because of the weak Renault engine pre-upgrades, but now they are stuck with it for the rest of the season :s
I stumbled over this two minutes ago...
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12475/9336484/renault-say-canada-will-be-the-first-time-they-can-compare-their-pace-to-Mercedes
Who will smoke first? Ferrari engine or Renault?
It was supposed to give them an 'advantage' at circuits like Monaco and Melbourne.
Heh.
Wow, that's some high level sand they are blowing into everyone's eyes.
It is true, gear ratios can´t be changed anymore. But that's why we now have 8 instead of 7 gears, and its only important for slow tracks in lower gears like Monaco anyway.
If they are really hitting some kind of limiter on the straights, then it is an self-imposed one, because they can´t get into higher revs yet. And that's either a problem with the turbo, FFL or FL - either way, engine related.
Unless they've used their joker, no they aren't.
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