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The Formula 1 2014 Season |OT| Who Will Win? Nobody Nose
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evanswolves
Member
Daniel Ricciardo has been excluded from the Australian GP
https://twitter.com/adamcooperF1/status/445181184155213824
https://twitter.com/adamcooperF1/status/445181184155213824
Nicktendo86
Member
Indeed, great result for McLaren. I don't think anyone had them down for a double podium!Sucks, but rules are rules.So that's a 2/3 for McLaren, wow.
Would love to know how much of an advantage Ricciardo had, if any. Terrible weekend for Red Bull with engine mapping!
They had some wierd reading on Saturday, so they replaced the fuel flow sensor unit with new one in Parc Ferme, just to be sure that they exclude faulty sensor. And during the race, FIA observed that max fuel flow in RIC car is constantly above the limited maximum level, which is against the rules.
After the race, they checked data from RBR sensors and tested fuel flow sensor unit. Looks like they found no problems with their sensor unit, so this means that RBR used too much fuel flow and they knew about it - quite possible they risked and got caught with hand in the honey pot.
http://adamcooperf1.com/2014/03/16/ricciardo-disqualified-from-second-place/
Thanks for that. I wonder if the problem was that the weird readings were that it was consistently reading all over the shop, but still under the limits... or something.
Doesn't matter, that's not going to be overturned.
It's a shame, but rules are rules, and this looks like a clear breach of them.
I'll think I'll skip the season this year. Ferrrari still sucks, the new rules seem really restrictive and I can no longer see the races in English or Dutch on any channel available in Belgium, so I need to use the French broadcasts which is just too bothersome if Ferrari sucks.
oipic
Member
Red Bull finding fresh and exciting new ways by which to screw over Vettel's team-mate...
(not being serious, obviously)
Well, that's turned a wonderful day into a cruddy one. A real shame for Dan, as his drive appeared to be faultless, but rules are rules, etc. Red Bull... *sigh*
(not being serious, obviously)
Well, that's turned a wonderful day into a cruddy one. A real shame for Dan, as his drive appeared to be faultless, but rules are rules, etc. Red Bull... *sigh*
Elvin Atombender
Member
Red Bull knew about it during the race and had a chance to lower the fuel consumption:
http://184.106.145.74/f1-championsh... Australian Grand Prix 2014 Document - 56.pdf
http://184.106.145.74/f1-championsh... Australian Grand Prix 2014 Document - 56.pdf
Wow, if that's true, Red Bull not only need to stop even thinking of appealing, but really need to look at what they're doing. That's pretty flagrant cheating, and way below what I'd expect of a constructors championship winning team.
oipic
Member
I'm guessing the appeal will be based on Red Bull's 'evidence' that their measurements were correct, and that the official readings were not - but it'll be in vain, surely, as the FIA's readings are the only ones that matter, right? Maybe there's more to it... but I'm not sure what leg Red Bull will have to stand on if it's as simple as that.
I vaguely remember another McLaren rookie who finished 3rd in his first F1 race.
Nicktendo86
Member
Oooh case closed, they were trying it on.
Well, this is official report and i doubt that any protest from RBR will help with this evidence.
Hmmmmmm. That whole, 'FIA tells them to reduce the fuel, Red Bull say whateva lolz' things looks like a bullet to their appeal chances to me...
Poor Dan. Really, really sucks for him but it does seem like they had a chance to not break the regs and didn't.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
Told you both McLarens would finish on the podium
Nicktendo86
Member
I actually cannot get over the arrogance of Red Bull to just ignore instructions.
It's a wee bit more complicated than that from reading it. The main area of dispute seems to be about the offset to apply to mitigate the discrepancy in the sensor readings. Red Bull ultimately chose their backup model over the FIA which is what has done them in. Typical Red Bull arrogance. I assume Red Bull thought the FIA offset was far too restrictive to performance.
Ultimately the FIA should be able to provide a working sensor seems that they didn't 3 times over the weekend. I wonder how many teams had a dodgy sensor and chose to use the FIA backup calculation as the rules state?
Yeah, I understand the situation. I can see Red Bull's argument and if it turns out the sensors really are innacurate, maybe it should be overturned.
But the fact is that Red Bull chose to trust their own judgement and maximise performance over playing it safe and definitely staying within the rules. I wonder if there were a number of cars today who had similar issues with sensors but still played it safe anyway.
Oh Stefano...
And looks like Alonso only had ERS issues for first 10 laps and then they found the solution. And they are blaming being stuck behind Hulk for poor performance - if you have '2nd fastest car on the grid' (copyright certain Italian journalists) you should easily overtake Force India...
And looks like Alonso only had ERS issues for first 10 laps and then they found the solution. And they are blaming being stuck behind Hulk for poor performance - if you have '2nd fastest car on the grid' (copyright certain Italian journalists) you should easily overtake Force India...
Indeed. Unless you can prove they are wrong at that time, follow the FIA instructions and argue later.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
Shame for Ricciardo, he was excellent all weekend.
Interesting case though. Red Bull clearly breached the rules by not obeying the sensor. They are not permitted to follow alternative flow measurements on their own, however more accurate or not.
So they banked on FIA letting them pass because they could show that they were technically within the the flow limit.
It still asks the question if there are legitimate sensor problems.
Interesting case though. Red Bull clearly breached the rules by not obeying the sensor. They are not permitted to follow alternative flow measurements on their own, however more accurate or not.
So they banked on FIA letting them pass because they could show that they were technically within the the flow limit.
It still asks the question if there are legitimate sensor problems.
Nicktendo86
Member
Apparently McLaren were running at 96kg/he to play safe due to interference with the fuel flow sensor, ricciardo probably had a significant performance advantage over Mag. I can't believe RB think they were OK to just ignore the warnings, they should be punished for appealing frankly.
brotkasten
Member
I'm honestly surprised that he was able to keep his job longer than Whitmarsh.
Indeed, all the teams had the same issue, and Red Bull were the only ones who decided not to play safe. Sheer arrogance and I hate what they seem to have become.
Red Bull used to be a fun team, one that actually was positive for the sport. They're now starting to remind me of Ferrari 2000-2004, where they think they're above the rules and try to do whatever they feel like. Thankfully the FIA appear to be wise to it, this time.
Really it's to be expected after the last few seasons with people stopping on track to get around fuel rules without a real punishment. It's good the FIA are actually enforcing them now and this sends that message.
I'm really pleased the FIA are sticking to being strict on fuel limits. They said as much during the week. Sucks for Ricciardo though.
Good race over all. Gutted that Hamilton's bad luck has followed him to Mercedes and into a new era. Would have loved to see whether Rosberg or Hamilton would come out on top. Once Bottas hit the wall the race became a bit monotonous, but oh well.
The two week wait until Malaysia is going to be a difficult one. Thankfully I've got the 24-28th off
Good race over all. Gutted that Hamilton's bad luck has followed him to Mercedes and into a new era. Would have loved to see whether Rosberg or Hamilton would come out on top. Once Bottas hit the wall the race became a bit monotonous, but oh well.
The two week wait until Malaysia is going to be a difficult one. Thankfully I've got the 24-28th off
What the fuck?! NOOOOOO
This just sucks. Rules are rules but this sure ruins the happy day for the whole Australian crowd there. I feel absolutely terrible and feel so guttered for Ricciardo. What a fucked up thing to happen for him.
Very true, and the FIA being a bit flip-floppy on fuel issues before was a real pain.
This time, Whiting was clear: Follow the fuel regs, or you're out. The fact that Red Bull not only ignored that warning, but actually ignored the stewards during the race smacks me as just wrong. If Magnussen was so close to the RBR with a fuel deficit, it shows that he really deserved to be ahead anyway.
Ah well, hopefully come the next race such silliness will be avoided, as it takes away from a really good comeback for RBR and shows that they aren't out of this title race at all. Instead questions will be asked as to whether they really have their feet on the ground there with regards to respecting the FIA and the stewards.
Didn't Symonds say that the reason they were off the pace during wet-qualy was because their car is very kind on its tyres too? Williams look like they have a tremendous package to work with, great reliability, downforce, fuel efficiency, and tyre-usage.
Even now the race has finished we still have no idea what Mercedes are capable of, haha.
Red Bull say they are absolutely sure that from their measurements from the injectors sure they were bang on the fuel flow rate and they told the FIA this before, during and after the race. Given that Whiting said before the race the injector readings would be used for confirmation in the event of a fuel flow issue then you've got to wonder if that's true although the delay in the decision would indicate that it probably was (If the injectors showed them using over the rate it wouldn't have taken 4 hours to come up with a decision). The issue here seems to be not that Red Bull actually used more than the allowed fuel flow, the data from the injectors themselves would indicate that very quickly, but that the FIA backup model they switch to when the flow rate sensor is broken indicates that they did and they deviated from that model without permission.
No one comes out of this with any credit, the FIA have produced a dodgy fuel flow sensor. Red Bull have showed their typical arrogance, although I'd have some sympathy if their data is correct and they're actually under the limit. It's motor racing and you shouldn't be turning down performance unless there is an absolute reason for it.
No one comes out of this with any credit, the FIA have produced a dodgy fuel flow sensor. Red Bull have showed their typical arrogance, although I'd have some sympathy if their data is correct and they're actually under the limit. It's motor racing and you shouldn't be turning down performance unless there is an absolute reason for it.
KimonoNoNo
Member
Gutted for Ricciardo. He didn't put a wheel wrong all weekend, even under all that media pressure of his home race.
nvm
Edit. Oh I didn't see that KK didn't have any rear brakes.
nvm
Edit. Oh I didn't see that KK didn't have any rear brakes.
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