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The Formula 1 2014 Season |OT| Who Will Win? Nobody Nose
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Nicktendo86
Member
I WOULD also sympathise with them if not for the fact everyone else had to use these sensors and some teams erred on the side of causion by going well under the flow limit. RB did not have permission to go by their own calculations and of course not, what team can use their own measurements to say their car complies with the regs? The FIA have to be hard in this, if they want this fuel flow limit rule to continue to be in the regs.
Damn, this year will be wild. Feel really bad for him. This just makes McLaren look even better, which is scary...
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
WHAT DO I WIN?
Elvin Atombender
Member
I don't understand why Red Bull didn't change their settings when they were given a chance to do so? The FIA could have disqualified them at once but gave them a chance and they didn't take it.
Even if you know you're right you should probably do what the people in charge tell you to. Imagine a football player that gets a red card but says: "No, when you look at the replay after the match you will see that you are wrong so I'll keep playing".
Even if you know you're right you should probably do what the people in charge tell you to. Imagine a football player that gets a red card but says: "No, when you look at the replay after the match you will see that you are wrong so I'll keep playing".
Myoclonic Jerk
Member
OUUUCH
What Kobi did to Massa
Wahahahaha!!
EDIT: suck for Ricciardo, but can someone explain what they've done in simpleton language?
It's Redbull. They are used to getting away with stuff like this all the time.
Their own calculations seem to be telemetry from the fuel injectors which Charlie Whiting had said would be used to back up the fuel flow sensor if anyone was found to be in breach of the rule. It's a bit rich for the FIA to say that and then presumably ignore that information, if you believe Red Bull story that the information from their injectors was that they were in line with the regs.
Of course if the FIA could produce a sensor which reliably measured something as simple as fuel rate this wouldn't be an issue at all. If they can't and they're asking teams to apply offsets to correct their shitty sensors then there's far too much roll of the dice hoping the piece of shit sensor they give doesn't give you a reading so out of whack they'll ask to apply a massive offset to ensure you're under a number you might already be at. In fact I'd go so far to say until the FIA can produce a reliable sensor they can't apply the rule at all.
Either the injectors showed RB over the limit or they didn't, if they didn't then the FIA are being a bit silly and if they did we wouldn't be talking about backup models and offsets. And I doubt it would have taken 4 hours to work out the data from the fuel injectors. The FIA are essentially saying RB ran the fuel flow too high because their backup model says that they did and that the team doesn't have the scope to deviate from that model without permission despite the FIA previously saying that the data from the fuel injectors would be considered.
Nicktendo86
Member
At the end of the day the rule says they need explicit permission to use their own measurements rather than the FIA one. Yes it looms like the sensors are shit, but it is the same equipment for everyone and teams can't just decide to ignore instructions, it sets a terrible precedent.
Because their telemetry from their fuel injectors said that they were compliant, and Charlie Whiting had at the start of the weekend said that data from the fuel injectors would be used to backup the data from the sensor.
In this case you have RB saying the injectors show them in compliance and the FIA saying you can't use that information to calculate your fuel flow, you have to use our defined backup model for calculation, but of course if the fuel flow sensor had showed you over the limit we'd use the information from the injectors you have to ignore to hang you.
The BBC did as well, but in an indirect fashion. Jenson didn't seem terribly affronted by their approach, at least.
I dunno, that might be quite pleasant in Bahrain!
seattle6418
Member
My opinion is never going to be well received. Rear brakes problem or not, he's still a shit driver in a sport that has already went through some dark ages considering paid drivers. Now we have those teams that have no business being in an F1 race because Bernie promissed smaller budgets, couldn't deliver, and now Caterham and Marussia are still just running bilboards instead of racing cars.
Kamui is no different than Maldonado, Grosjean, Gutierrez, Perez or the Schiatarellas, Young, Inoue, Bereta, Tarquini, and so on.
Maybe my "rage" is due to the fact that i hate seeing rich kids getting a spot instead of talented drivers. It's a problem in motorsports in general, and i know that even the good drivers have to be extremely rich, but it doesn't change the fact that i hate those situations, specially when they are so obvious like in this one. A paid driver running on a team that has no purpose of winning, is only there for advertisment.
These shitboxes shouldn't even be there, so maybe i should replace my anger and direct at Caterham.
Yagami_Sama
Member
I am so sorry for Ricciardo, but I extremely happy for both McLarem be on podium. I demand that FIA redo the podium ceremony 
.
.But Kobayashi has never been a pay driver. He had support from Toyota right at the beginning, but then they bailed out and he was left entirely on his own with no big backer or any real financial help at all.
I don't know how you can throw Kobayashi in with Gutierrez or Inoue or Chilton. He got a podium in a bloody Sauber! And that wasn't a fluke either, that was on merit.
So basically we should only have about 5 teams out there then, because outside of about 10 drivers, nobody else does have a chance of winning. Or am I missing your point here?
EDIT: Kamui and Perez both have gotten on the podium before too.
Wow. I can't believe this happened to Ricciardo. Just doesn't seem fair for the guy. Still, it shows how much of a team sport F1 is rather than just a driver's race. I kinda hope that they didn't actually violate any rules and it was a technical error somewhere that gets overturned in an appeal, but... probably not.
Holy fucking shit. You're right!
Just got home from watching the race. Now I hear that Ricciardo was DQ'd. Fucking sucks man.
Apart from Hamilton and Kobayashi it was a pretty good race. I loved seeing Bottas, Magnussen and Hulkenberg doing well.
Kimi shit the bed. Something tells me this is going to be the story of the season for him, but maybe he can get used to the cars.
Apart from Hamilton and Kobayashi it was a pretty good race. I loved seeing Bottas, Magnussen and Hulkenberg doing well.
Kimi shit the bed. Something tells me this is going to be the story of the season for him, but maybe he can get used to the cars.
Nicktendo86
Member
They violated the rules going by their own measurements for fuel flow and completely ignoring instructions to reduce fuel flow in an act of utter arrogance. Really sucks for Riccardo but they HAD to DQ him.Wow. I can't believe this happened to Ricciardo. Just doesn't seem fair for the guy. Still, it shows how much of a team sport F1 is rather than just a driver's race. I kinda hope that they didn't actually violate any rules and it was a technical error somewhere that gets overturned in an appeal, but... probably not.
brotkasten
Member
Somehow I have to wonder if they would have had the same problem with Vettel's car, if it had lasted longer. I wouldn't be surprised if Ricciardo got Webber's luck after all.
Nicktendo86
Member
Well apparently there were 'problems' with the fuel flow on Vettel's car as well. I really think RB were trying to pull a fast one here.
Psychotext
Member
The actual story is a lot more complicated. There's an excellent explanation of it all in a post I read earlier, but I'm struggling to find it again.
The short answer is that the FIA really, REALLY need to find a reliable, accurate, calibrateable sensor or there are going to be arguments about this all season.
The short answer is that the FIA really, REALLY need to find a reliable, accurate, calibrateable sensor or there are going to be arguments about this all season.
Lol.
Brilliant.
I seen similar posts, and I definitly agree that the FIA needs reliable sensors, they are the governing body!
However, every other team played by the rules and followed the FIA's guidance, screwed up sensors or not. Red Bull shouldn't escape penalty when they were told they were outside the FIA's guidance. Just follow and try to fix their problems after the race.
Psychotext
Member
Not disagreeing about the penalty, it was a stupid risk to take. Just stating that there's a lot more to this than the surface "told they were using too much fuel, continued anyway".
Dutch Gronk
Banned
Either Stefano has some pictures of Luca at that Mosley Nazi sex party or Luca is an even bigger idiot than Stefano.
How can everybody outsmart them year in, year out and absolutly nothing changes.
Brilliant.
Lmao.
Poor Ricciardo. He seems a nice guy and it's too harsh for him being desqualified racing in his homeland, but rules are rules.
As a fan of the sport however, I'm enjoying all this drama at the start of a season. I got quickly tired of last season dominance from RBR, as I was really tired of Ferrari dominance in the Shumacher period. It's good for the sport that almost every team in the circuit this season it's struggling to find the right pace.
And that Williams looks really good and with two drivers that give confidence. Kudos to them.
As a fan of the sport however, I'm enjoying all this drama at the start of a season. I got quickly tired of last season dominance from RBR, as I was really tired of Ferrari dominance in the Shumacher period. It's good for the sport that almost every team in the circuit this season it's struggling to find the right pace.
And that Williams looks really good and with two drivers that give confidence. Kudos to them.
seattle6418
Member
It's not always about winning. Marussia and Caterham are not competing on anything. It's like the old Coloni, Larrousse, Footwork and similar, they are just billboards. Teams like Sauber or STR are always fighting for points and a better finish... Marussia and Caterham are completely clueless. I'm sorry, but they would only work if F1 had some sort of a low end budget cap that allowed poor teams to have a chance.
As i said, it's not a popular opinion. About Kamui I'll give you that he's a lot better than Inoue or Gutierrez, that was me being harsh.
Now this is something i'm quite comfortable to say... you have to be very rich to get into motorsports. Maybe it's different in the country you live, but even kart races on a national level are extremely expensive (speaking from a Latin american POV). Then when you have to go to Europe, shit goes to astronomical levels were you need millions and millions just to compete.
I remember some stories about how Piquet, Mansell and some others got in, but there's a lot of things missing in those stories. They love to say here in Brazil that Piquet went to Europe with only "his guts" when in fact his family was ruling the country during a dictatorship (his grampa was one of the highest officials in the military).
Even the families that have stories of "we sold everything for him to succeed" like Castroneves story, it means you had a lot of business to sell. It has never been a sport that average people can get into, anyone who has been close to the sport knows it. Talent or not, you got to have a lot of money to play.
Nicktendo86
Member
It is to reign in performance apparently.
Hamilton and Scherherserhcersherherzinger may or may not be engaged.
SQUEE! I totes ship HamZinger <3
RomanticHeroX
Member
#blessed
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