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The Formula 1 2014 Season |OT| Who Will Win? Nobody Nose
- Thread starter Addnan
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Why on God's Earth would you introduce a complicated ERS system and then ban your engineer telling you how to get the most out of it. Ridiculous. I don't understand this 'longing' for the 70's/80's era and why we keep having to artificially limit the sport to try and reach that. It's 20-fucking-14 and these cars are some of the most sophisticated, and expensive pieces of kit on the planet and you want one single guy to try and get the most out of this electronic, not mechanical, beast at 200+ mph?
I agree that the Mercedes' babysitting has been a bit much lately but the only reason we're making a deal out of it is because the FIA are broadcasting it more often. It's been happening for years. Presuming everything Wax Free said is verbatim; why would you want the drivers to not know if their brakes are in danger? Ridiculous. All you're doing is increasing the chances of a retirement because you're refusing communication. What a brilliant, totally non-artificial way to increase 'competition' in F1 in the 21st Century.
This is in exactly the same vein of stupidity as the Pirelli tyres of 2011-2013. An utterly false sense of 'competition'.
In an age where my computer, TV, fridge, tablet, phone, and watch can all be connected to each other and I could play my PS4 from the other side of the world but we're stopping an F1 driver from talking to his engineer about important things related to his car & race? Ludicrous.
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I know I'm usually the only person that thinks like this in this thread, but I wanted to vent a bit. The FIA keeps making decisions that coat the real problem of competitiveness in F1. It's knee-jerk decisions like these mid-season that are alienating potential fans from the sport, heck they even alienate long-term fans. The most bullshit thing is that the teams agreed to it too - just like they agreed to double points for Christ's sake.
I agree that the Mercedes' babysitting has been a bit much lately but the only reason we're making a deal out of it is because the FIA are broadcasting it more often. It's been happening for years. Presuming everything Wax Free said is verbatim; why would you want the drivers to not know if their brakes are in danger? Ridiculous. All you're doing is increasing the chances of a retirement because you're refusing communication. What a brilliant, totally non-artificial way to increase 'competition' in F1 in the 21st Century.
This is in exactly the same vein of stupidity as the Pirelli tyres of 2011-2013. An utterly false sense of 'competition'.
In an age where my computer, TV, fridge, tablet, phone, and watch can all be connected to each other and I could play my PS4 from the other side of the world but we're stopping an F1 driver from talking to his engineer about important things related to his car & race? Ludicrous.
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I know I'm usually the only person that thinks like this in this thread, but I wanted to vent a bit. The FIA keeps making decisions that coat the real problem of competitiveness in F1. It's knee-jerk decisions like these mid-season that are alienating potential fans from the sport, heck they even alienate long-term fans. The most bullshit thing is that the teams agreed to it too - just like they agreed to double points for Christ's sake.
Psychotext
Member
Ark, there's no way the FIA are going to stop teams telling a driver that their brakes are unsafe. It's just not going to happen. Obviously safety overrides all of this.
God help the teams if they fake it though.
God help the teams if they fake it though.
This will be a difficult point of contention, I feel: at what point is the team radio helping the driver, and at what point is information actually critical to the safety of the driver? Is saying "your brakes are cold!" allowed? Technically that's helping the driver race his car, isn't it? But at the same time.. if his brakes are cold, that's a safety issue. And I presume it will be treated as such.
I mean, you'd hope a professional F1 driver understood when and when not his brakes were cold, but these things happen. And there are a lot more borderline team calls that are gonna be made, brakes are one of the easier ones.
I'm not really sure what to make of this decision because it seems to have come about extremely quickly in the response to recent events, and so it does come across as a kneejerk decision. People in the sport keep talking about how things need to change, or to go back to how they were, or whatever, well, changing things constantly is never gonna help that.
Either way, this rule is gonna fuck someone up somewhere as the teams grasp what can and can't be said on the radio. Lord help us all if it somehow influences the championship in a big way.
Honestly I see this affecting Lewis more. See; Canada.
That was an extreme scenario. What I meant was I don't want to see drivers having massive lock-ups with race ending flatspots because the team is banned from telling the driver to cool the brakes a bit.
I would really hate to see team radio inadvertently deciding the championship through retirements that could have been prevented instead of the title being decided at the Abu Double.
The fact that double points happened pretty much screamed at us that they are totally incompetent. Even the fans backlash changed nothing.
As for the radio I do like the rule. I think it was the teams that came up with this because the goal is to make drivers more into 'heroes' rather than something that is easy to do even though its not easy at all. This makes me even more annoyed since they ignored fans on double point but on other rules they act like they are listening to the fans.
I can see this argument and it makes sense, but the sport has changed and the billion dollar team is more important than the driver. It's funny though, I keep seeing articles in the media about trying to create driver 'personalities' when over half the grid have very particular personalities/traits and the vast majority of fans are away of. I feel like the only team boss that ever tried to listen to the fans and do something about it was Whitmarsh but he always ended up pulling the line like everyone else.
Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Kimi, Ricciardo, Button, Maldonado, Bottas, and Massa all have defined personalities. I mean what do they want, everyone to be James Hunt?
EDIT: Just read the FIA Q&A on Reddit that information like a slow puncture would be banned communication. Really.
EDIT2: I'll stop now
Wow if that's true that's too much.I can see this argument and it makes sense, but the sport has changed and the billion dollar team is more important than the driver. It's funny though, I keep seeing articles in the media about trying to create driver 'personalities' when over half the grid have very particular personalities/traits and the vast majority of fans are away of. I feel like the only team boss that ever tried to listen to the fans and do something about it was Whitmarsh but he always ended up pulling the line like everyone else.
Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Kimi, Ricciardo, Button, Maldonado, Bottas, and Massa all have defined personalities. I mean what do they want, everyone to be James Hunt?
EDIT: Just read the FIA Q&A on Reddit that information like a slow puncture would be banned communication. Really.
EDIT2: I'll stop now
These are the things
Tobias Grüner F1 @tgruener
FIA race director Charlie Whiting answers urgent questions about new radio rules for Singapore. AMuS (German): ams.to/Rb
#F1 Not allowed anymore: Info about tyres/brake condition, fuel consumption, engine maps, ERS mode, fuel mix, diff settings. #NewRadioRules
#F1 Also not allowed: formation lap instructions to prepare race start - burnouts, gearbox sync, bite point, brake/tyre temps
#F1 Still allowed are informations & instructions regarding traffic, pit stop timing and team order.
http://translate.google.com/transla...er-muss-verbrauch-selbst-ablesen-8600105.html
Also bear in mind that drivers have a screen so they can check the fuel consumption and other settings.
Can they still use pit boards?
Will engineers stand in front of the car during pit stops with a white board and instructions?
Wouldn't they pit for a slow puncture? Surely then they'd have to communicate it. It seems to be a very ambiguous new rule, especially one to implement just a week before another race
Will engineers stand in front of the car during pit stops with a white board and instructions?
Wouldn't they pit for a slow puncture? Surely then they'd have to communicate it. It seems to be a very ambiguous new rule, especially one to implement just a week before another race
Psychotext
Member
Not always (depends how late in the race it is)... but generally. It's pretty much a non issue.
...and yeah, pit boards will remain, but you're REALLY limited as to what you can get across on those.
...and yeah, pit boards will remain, but you're REALLY limited as to what you can get across on those.
They'll introduce silly rules like this mid season but won't change their mind on double points at the last race.
I wonder if Merc will have to give full control of engine maps back to the drivers now as they presumably won't be able to control it centrally now if they can't tell the driver what is and what isn't available.
I wonder if Merc will have to give full control of engine maps back to the drivers now as they presumably won't be able to control it centrally now if they can't tell the driver what is and what isn't available.
That could benefit Lewis as he's better on fuel than Nico.
ConstructMe
Banned
NICE! https://twitter.com/takiinoue/status/509589365505687552
Can't wait for the Lewis x Nico doujins.
I dont get this, are they the drivers wives or something.
I think this is another FIA hamfisted reaction to a legit concern.
Drivers are being very specifically instructed on how to drive? Ban almost all communication.
Its a bit boring when the season is decided before the end? Double points.
Its hard to overtake? Magical easy overtake button just for getting close.
Odd how it went from a few people grumbling about it to having new rules effective immediately in about a week, but everyone consistently hates double points and nothing changes.
Drivers are being very specifically instructed on how to drive? Ban almost all communication.
Its a bit boring when the season is decided before the end? Double points.
Its hard to overtake? Magical easy overtake button just for getting close.
Odd how it went from a few people grumbling about it to having new rules effective immediately in about a week, but everyone consistently hates double points and nothing changes.
Fuel usage stats can be misleading as traffic helps it (lot's of lifting), but at least in Monaco the team constantly told Nico where Lewis coasted and even corners where he chose a higher gear.
Wasn't Nico better at managing his rear brakes when ERS broke though or did the team not tell Lewis in time?
Pointless and stupid rule changes. The teams will just automate all that shit next season, and anything the driver needs to rectify will show up on his screen with instructions from the car's computer.
Some random issue might catch a few drivers out before the end of the season though, so that should be entertaining... Probably Hamilton with another problem like in Monza where his launch rs mode was engaged on his wheel but showing as off on the pit wall. Imagine if this rule was in effect when Webber and his pos KERS unit were failing every other lap.
Some random issue might catch a few drivers out before the end of the season though, so that should be entertaining... Probably Hamilton with another problem like in Monza where his launch rs mode was engaged on his wheel but showing as off on the pit wall. Imagine if this rule was in effect when Webber and his pos KERS unit were failing every other lap.
Psychotext
Member
Much of the stuff they're banning couldn't be handled by a computer, at least not without pit to car telemetry (banned). Sure, it could suggest an engine mode for a reboot, but it wont be able to advise about brake bias or where your teammate is faster than you / how.
That aside, there's really nothing wrong with a driver looking at his dashboard and making his own decisions based on what he sees. Which is surely the point.
Psychotext
Member
Drunken idea darts.
The car's computer should be powerful enough to handle most of that stuff in 2014. If not then i'm sure it will be for next season.
I don't see what this adds to the sport. The drivers already make diff and brake bias changes themselves, or at least request them. Everything else like the fuel mix will be automated by the comp depending on fuel consumption, or rs modes only available to the driver in certain predetermined conditions. These aren't things that the teams will leave in the drivers hands.
I am kinda happy to see instructions like where to brake and turn in banned, but the rest is ridiculous to me. I mean, I don't really care whether the instruction to coast more or go easier on the brakes comes from the comp or engineer.
theignoramus
Member
That ban on communicating engine settings couldve fucked Lewis this past Sunday when he had a software failure at the start right?
Templar Wizard
Member
One could argue that the extent of instructions to the drivers is bordering on total control and taking away from the driver feel.
So in essence enhancing talent with data.
And thats wrong surely?
Its a team sport yes, the team does their part in preparing the car, but its the driver we should see working their magic.
The FIA hears all the radio and most is not transmitted on the world feed, so they know the true level of pitlane control.
It would be great if this takes drivers away from racing to an exact delta and shows their true skill in car control and management.
I would bet that most of the big teams will have updated display settings for their drivers, but good luck trying to fiddle with new settings at the racetrack where its a neverending series of corners.
Should be interesting!
So in essence enhancing talent with data.
And thats wrong surely?
Its a team sport yes, the team does their part in preparing the car, but its the driver we should see working their magic.
The FIA hears all the radio and most is not transmitted on the world feed, so they know the true level of pitlane control.
It would be great if this takes drivers away from racing to an exact delta and shows their true skill in car control and management.
I would bet that most of the big teams will have updated display settings for their drivers, but good luck trying to fiddle with new settings at the racetrack where its a neverending series of corners.
Should be interesting!
Who was complaining that they had to go and do this? Let's forget the ridiculousness of midseason rule changes in general, just the safety implications this alone can have is scary. Banning transmissions about brake and tire conditions sounds absolutely nuts to me. Of course, this is from the same organization who thinks double points and standing restarts are spectacular ideas.
This seems overkill. Tyre condition sounds like something they'd want to communicate to adjust pit stop strategy. The rest I agrees with though - might make them more conservative on fuel and/or reward those drivers naturally lighter of fuel usage
Can anyone clarify, it seems from that list that they cannot ask the driver how the tyres feel?
Agreed.
However, implementing this halfway through the season is bonkers. It's a fundamental change to how a team and driver manage a car, and needs careful planning before a season start.
Hmm, I'd guess they can ask the driver questions, as that's not helping them drive. But they may be can't tell the driver that the rears are too hot or whatever.
It'll be interesting to see some further clarification before the next race.
All I really wanted them to stop was things like "brake 5m later at turn 3" or "up one gear though 7" kind of stuff.
But what about implementing it half way through a season? That I have issue with.
Psychotext
Member
Slow punctures can still be solved because they can communicate pit stop timing. So just say "Nico pit this lap please. PIT THIS LAP" Nico: "Why?" Engineer: "Radio silence"
This rule will end up deciding the championship and it will be hilarious because we didn't needed it.
Like always FIA sees a mosquito as the problem and decides that the best solution is to use a rocket launcher to kill it.
But I'm sure teams will find a way to communicate important issues to the driver. "Hey be careful you have Maldonado ahead and you are probably going to catch him on the tough turn 12. Repeat catch Maldonado on turn 12". And that could mean to lift in turn 12 which means fuel consumption problems. FIA can't inforce this rule because teams will find a way.
This rule will end up deciding the championship and it will be hilarious because we didn't needed it.
Like always FIA sees a mosquito as the problem and decides that the best solution is to use a rocket launcher to kill it.
But I'm sure teams will find a way to communicate important issues to the driver. "Hey be careful you have Maldonado ahead and you are probably going to catch him on the tough turn 12. Repeat catch Maldonado on turn 12". And that could mean to lift in turn 12 which means fuel consumption problems. FIA can't inforce this rule because teams will find a way.
Mercedes will struggle as all their code words are strange settings
I think part of this is trying to make fuel be a big deal again. Tons of talk preseason about how important fuel would be and it ended up just barely slowing some of them down.
Mercedes will struggle as all their code words are strange settings
I think part of this is trying to make fuel be a big deal again. Tons of talk preseason about how important fuel would be and it ended up just barely slowing some of them down.
In which case the easier solution would be to ban car to team telemetry of the fuel level. That would require getting rid of the average flow rate bollocks, but that would be okay too.
brotkasten
Member
I'm not against this change, but introducing it mid-season is the issue. Again, I really wonder how rookies are going deal with it.
Yeah, the mid-season nature of it definitely makes it feel rash.
I'd wait and see how it turns out before we all start going apeshit though. Right now we don't understand exactly how it's going to play out and what kind of influence it will have. Who knows, maybe it will be really interesting and bring some new skills into play.
I'd wait and see how it turns out before we all start going apeshit though. Right now we don't understand exactly how it's going to play out and what kind of influence it will have. Who knows, maybe it will be really interesting and bring some new skills into play.
2015 Calendar is out: http://www.fia.com/news/world-motor-sport-council-2014-beijing
Up to 20 races with the addition of mexico.
Up to 20 races with the addition of mexico.
What data are you thinking of? All the important data comes from the car's sensors and is aggregated in the software, most of it is just being calculated in the garage to save weight.
Computing stuff like how much fuel needs to be in the car to finish, the consumption and resulting optimum fuel mix shouldn't be difficult. The software only needs to make checks against figures from the sensors with a baseline that the team sets before the race.
Software sees rear brakes running hot = brake bias recommendation.
Driver wants overtake rs/engine mode = software makes check against relevant data and either accepts or doesn't.
Am I alone in thinking this is possible? I really can't imagine this not happening unless the weight cost of a computer with added responsibilities is too great.
I wish the season still ended in Brazil.
Fuck double points
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Formula E starts tomorrow. A decent amount of former F1 drivers on the grid.
Katherine Legge
Antonio Felix da Costa
Franck Montagny
Charles Pic
Lucas di Grassi
Daniel Abt
Nelson Piquet Jnr
Ho-Pin Tung
Jerome DAmbrosio
Oriol Servia
Nicolas Prost
Sebastien Buemi
Karun Chandhok
Bruno Senna
Jarno Trulli
Michela Cerruti
Nick Heidfeld
Stephane Sarrazin
Jaime Alguersuari
Sam Bird
brotkasten
Member
Two actually.
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