Considering I was worried about a near decapitation earlier, I'll take that. Still could be absolutely terrible though, hope for some good news soon.
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The Formula 1 2014 Season |OT2| Louder Than Formula E
- Thread starter Addnan
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Considering I was worried about a near decapitation earlier, I'll take that. Still could be absolutely terrible though, hope for some good news soon.
Diablohead
Member
I just heard about the crash, been out of the loop of F1 this year.
Sad news
hope he pulls through.
Sad news
hope he pulls through.Apart from me?
Well thats strange, as the commentary team I was watching were talking about how the heavy rain was comparable to the start and that included a report from the pits.
The issue you seem to be avoiding is Massa's and Sutil's interviews.
Massa said:
Sutil said:
The warnings were there, plain & simple. This was avoidable
New pic, Bianchi clearly visible in the cockpit along with damage to the car.
Link: http://autosprint.corrieredellosport.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/01.jpg
Link: http://autosprint.corrieredellosport.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/01.jpg
UnblessedSoul
Member
Looking at the start of the race, the track was like a swimming pool, why was it allowed to go ahead?
The track was okay once they had started racing.
Mohonky
Member
Rain isnt inherently a problem, its when water starts to build up and create standing pools and its not something that happens immediately, and if the cars are going round something that takes longer to happen as even the intermediate tyres will displace large amounts of water from the track just by the drivers going around. So for rain to start becoming a factor, it actually needs to be heavy rain over a prolonged period if it occurs during race conditions.
Standing water on a track is always an issue with rain and while Massa and Sutil might feel it was getting worse, they and every other driver on the track were still running the intermediate tyres, even as the rain was picking back up everyone was still opting for those tyres as opposed to the full wets, Ricciardo himself was in the pits right before or even during the incident putting on new inters, so there is nothing to suggest the conditions were so bad that the cars were undrivable. Even at the start when it was supposed to be at its worst, Button pulled in immediately for the intermediate tyres and promptly went about lapping much much faster than the rest of the field. So there is little to indicate there that a red flag was necessary. Especially as the race was in swing and the cars were staged all over the track at that point displacing much of any water building up.
This was just an unfortunate event. Many of the drivers still maintained after the race that the conditions werent out of the ordinary and many drivers commented they had raced in worse conditions. Malayasia a few years ago was probably the worst I can recall seeing as even the underpan of the cars werent clearing the water levels. That race was rightly red flagged, had this one been red flagged I am sure many drivers would have had a quizzical look on there faces as to why; actually some of them were commenting that they were unsure of why the race had been red flagged initially, it wasnt until they heard about the incident they understood, the idea that the traxk had become undrivable wasnt a concern they had.
Long story short: there was nothing today that indicates anything out of the ordinary, until Bianchi hit the JCB, this was a pretty standard run wet race.
just saw the picture somewhere else and i have to say this is even worse than i thought it was when i first saw the car.. basically Bianchi was "lucky" not to be decapitated there.
It would also suggest to me that this was a highspeed crash since the impact was big enough to completely shave off the top part of the car which is not that weak at all. I have the feeling that even though it was a double waved yellow Bianchi might have been too fast through the corner. Of course i don't know the facts but the pictures show how violent the impact must've been and that's the conclusion i draw from that without knowing much else.
EDIT: and i am wondering.. there doesn't seem to be any significant place on the rescue car for a F1 car to fit under?? am i missing something here? The place on the back of the car seems to narrow for an F1 car to go through.
The commentary team that I was listening to didn't. And Massa stands alone with his opinion.
Of course you can have aquaplaning when it's wet. But the fact that several drivers went into to pits to get inters rather than wet tyres strongly suggests that the rain wasn't that bad. Of course when your inters are worn down you're likely to be in trouble when there's fresh rain, but racing is an outdoor sport.
The rain had eased off enough to allow the race to start under the SC. In turn, the full wets used for the SC period started to displace the water, hence the reason why we started to see cars come straight in for inter's.
At the end though it was stupid. Rain was heavy, standing water was building up and the majority of the field were still on inter's, so the water wasn't displacing.
The top teams probably wasn't that concerned because their aero packages were good enough to counter the areas of the track where standing water was building, so I'll bet the FIA and F1 management wanted to see out the remaining few laps. The lesser cars were having major issues though and it defies belief that they attempted a recovery around a area where cars were beginning to aqua-plan without a safety car (at least)
Or he aquaplanned like Sutil and as a result he gained speed without having the ability to brake...
Is that how momentum on water works? You gain speed on water when you have aqua planning?
Serious question because i have no facts
I would have thought that you slowly lose speed not gain it
Cars going back onto inter's were cars with excellent aero packages, so that attempt at an excuse is just bollocks.
But lets take opinions out of this and deal with facts...
Rain was increasing, standing water was increasing.
Car aquaplans into the barrier on a circuit with very few large run off areas.
Recovery team including a mobile crane sent inside the perimeter under only yellow flags.
Raining and standing water still increasing.
2nd car aqua-plans, hitting the mobile crane.
Sorry but thats fucking reckless behaviour full stop
Fox Mulder
Member
crazy they would recover a vehicle so quickly in the rain, but it seems to be the norm. Been watching old races and the 2007 nurburgring race had 6 or 7 cars go off one by one in turn 1 due to rain, one almost hitting the safety car as it was coming out and stopping in the gravel right before slamming into the recovery vehicle.
theignoramus
Member
If they didnt care about safety we wouldnt have had so many laps under the safety car at the beginning with everyone screaming to get on with the race. We started this GP on inters, remember, when it could have started on full wets.
The issue here was a car hitting a piece of heavy machinery extracting another car from the scene of an accident.
theignoramus
Member
Thats exactly what I figure.
AmaterasuOkami076
Member
"L'Equipe reporting Bianchi's surgery is complete & he is not under respiratory assistance."
Via Tom Wilkinson's Twitter.
http://inagist.com/all/518755312611098624/
Via Tom Wilkinson's Twitter.
http://inagist.com/all/518755312611098624/
Well if you only want to present facts, get them straight and stop steering them.
For one: Sutil got out unscafed at that track with very few large run off areas
Rain was increasing but read the Autosport article, most felt it wasn't very particular heavy or excessive. Making claims about problematic, avoidable, blamable standing water on the track seems without too much base.
There is no need to down play double waved yellow flags, it is clear what they mean and what you should do, like Lewis said post race: "You should lift off significantly". Be prepared to suddenly change your line, or stop.
For the record: yellow flags were also waved in the corner before the accident, so it wasn't shown at a single corner.
To speculate about the cause of either crash seems premature.
Claiming that within 1 minute 30 the rain increased seems also quite searching for things to point your pitchfork at. Things happened quite quickly after each other.
I think thats what is so scary, is its the norm with F1, until someone see's sense, which only happens as the result of a bad accident.
It took Jim Clark's death to start a shift toward safety (though it was driver's only trying to get things changed).
It took Roger Williamson burning to death for authorities to think it maybe a good idea to train and equip track marshals (only Purley tried to even help him)
It took Senna & Ratzenberger's death for inreased car & track safety.
Maybe this will make authorities think that its not a good idea to send recovery teams inside the track perimeter, with only waved yellows when cars are aqua-planing
prettyvacant77
Member
Great post, always room for improvement where safety is concerned, sadly it usually takes someone getting badly injured or worse for these reviews to take place: Clark, Williamson, Senna, Surtees etc...
Don't forget that leaving a car in front of the barriers is also quite dangerous. That's why they want to remove the car as fast as possible. So time with additional risks is as short as possible.
That said, I remember my heart skipping a few beats in that race and the 2003 Brazil race where there was a near miss of these vehicles... I think we won't be seeing them in this form.
EarsOfASnake
Member
That latest update seems to a positive one. I'll never understand why they don't bring the safety car out in those conditions when they need the assistance of a foreign object that shouldn't be on a race track. Yeah most times nothing will happen, but it just makes too much sense to take that precaution.
This is very good news that he can breathe by himself
Please tell me are not serious?
One car hit an armco barrier, designed to absorb energy from a crash.
The other hit a mobile crane sent in to recover the 1st car.
Thats the whole point. When one car aqua-plans, history tells us its not long before another does the same thing in the same spot. Tracks with large run off's allow the driver to recover the car hopefully before another car aqua-plans along the same trajectory.
Aqua-planing into a barrier on a narrow track will nearly always require a recovery team. Sending a team on with only waved yellows on a track that was getting wetter was a gamble that risked driver & marshalls safety.
Was it really worth the risk for only a handfull off laps left racing?
That's good news right?
Its promising news but not really what I would call good. It would only be good once we hear something that could indicate that a full recovery is possible
Within 90 seconds the FIA should have known that the cause of Sutil's crash was standing water and thus the race should be neutralized? And not just some random driving error.
I didn't infer the causality in your list of points. But you are right. A recovery team was needed when he hit the barrier, but I don't see how that is more the case when there is less run off area. They always do that if the car is stuck at a dangerous area.
I think the best thing in the future is for the FIA to mandate as much large cranes as possible (the ones behind fences that actually lift the car over the fence without the need for heavy material in the run off area).
I think it is stupid to mandate a safety car every time a marshall goes in front of the fence when it is raining. We shouldn't run races if that is the case, because it wouldn't make sense. There won't be any racing left during a race. It would safety car session after safety car session. And yes, when there is aqua planning that would be a great reason to stop the race. But I don't see how the FIA could have reacted faster when the rain wasn't exceptional.
They never aired because of the crash.
Absolutely not. This race was organized well, and what happened to Jules was just very bad driving incident. He crashed under double yellow flags far after Sutil was outside of the car. We don't know why he crashed, but double yellows mean "extreme danger, be prepared to stop".
As for need to move the race, I think that was unnecessary. We had many races before with stronger rain.
F1 is still incredibly safe sport.
olore
Member
Hopefully someone somewhere launches an investigation. Is someone accountable? We`ll see.
Completely agree, but his point was that if the Heli couldn't take off, he had a damn valid point. The Heli could take off but they rather chose to not use it and instead use the ambulance (for what ever the reason might have been).
Something went wrong in the procedures if the heli couldn't take off. And if someone is to blame for that, i.e. not continually checking if conditions were still ok, conclusions should be drawn from that.
I would not have deployed SC after Sutil's crash. Double yellows should have been enough to protect marshals and drivers, but one lap later, Bianchi spun out.
Accidents sadly happen. Who knows, maybe his car failed.
olore
Member
Yes, the *sport* is safe. But what if the surrounding facilities is subpar i.e. heli can`t take of because of the weather? Isn`t that protocol and the regular modus operandi compromised?
I sincerely hope Bianchi pulls through
That wasn't the case as far as known. They made the choice not to go by air.
According to some reports, Bianchi was transported via ambulance because of the request of the medical personnel on the site. I don't know why they chose that. It could be because of the weather, because nearby hospital in Suzuka City did not have helipad [Nagoya is 70km away], because doctors feared that if chopper goes high it could worsen condition of Jules [lower air pressure = changes in the state of blood vesels inside his injured brain], or even because they thought that ambulance quickest and best way of reaching hospital.
And F1 cannot be responsible for the state of hospitals around the tracks. They can provide best possible transport, and on-site doctors who can decide what needs to be done with injured people.
aspiegamer
Member
He's managing, for now. All things considered I'm shocked his condition is this good.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29499545
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29499545
I deleted a much longer post just now. I have some strong feelings on this sport and what it has become. I'll just say this. If you watch a sport where people can die, you can't be surprised when people die or get hurt badly. It's not suddenly grounds for rules changes. What happened yesterday seems a fluke. Until further info comes out, I think the ideas of cockpits and safety cars are simply reactionary. PEACE.
EarsOfASnake
Member
I think you needed to write that longer post...
No. Brought back too many bad memories. I lost my favorite driver, Dale Earnhardt. I've been gutted by my sport, but I'll never stop watching, because I am a petrol head. I understand the risks, and the sport is already much safer than when I began watching. Grief can lead to irrationality, and I think that's what's happening with some of the reactions and suggestions so far. PEACE.