Wasn't it L'equipe? Like the biggest french sports thing out there.
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The Formula 1 2014 Season |OT2| Louder Than Formula E
- Thread starter Addnan
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Wasn't it L'equipe? Like the biggest french sports thing out there.
I'd suggest being cautious of taking things from L'Equipe. Turns out they used a translated Tweet by a friend of mine as a source for one of their reports yesterday.
While he knows his F1, he's not an F1 journalist on the scene. He's just a fan.
While he knows his F1, he's not an F1 journalist on the scene. He's just a fan.
Waiting until circumstances are investigated is too hard for you, but cancelling a race in 90 seconds is reasonable. And it is a freak accident. That should be clear by the rarity of it. That doesn't mean nothing should be done.
Yes there have been near misses before, and I have said previously that the race should have been moved before hand, but there was nothing about that circumstance which led to the accident at the time that was unusually dangerous except for the tractor being on the outside of the corner and not behind a guard fence.
Your ranting and raving about they should have red flagged the race and it was inherently too dangerous based on the words of two drivers versus all the other drivers is getting tired.
Safety in almost every aspect of life is defined by rare and tragic events. Car racing is no different.
Yeah, in this kind of situation, L'Equipe should not be trusted. They don't verify anything and take everything for granted.
Could not agree more, the amount of blame being shifted around (not just here, all over the internet) with the benefit of hindsight where everyone has hours to think on the matter, know the position of everything and the reason of both crashes. I mean, Jesus, it was a freak accident, there can certainly be measures taken to avoid one in the future based on the knowledge we have now, but to put any blame on anyone involved is just stupid.
Yes, and we still don't know a lot of things... Way too easy to judge with hindsight.
Although everything has to be evaluated by the FIA/Police/everybody, on first sight I don't think too many things went wrong. But that doesn't mean we can't learn lessons from this like: don't put giant metal obstacles in run off areas. We had too many near misses in the last decade. And now a horrible crash. Let's see if we can avoid that in the future, maybe create a new spec of tractor with impact protection on the sides...
Still no news other than surgery, really sad that the breathing on his own story turned out false
I don't want to start putting blame on anyone but I feel Fia should listen more to the drivers.
Which ones should they listen to?
Most drivers I heard said there wasn't anything special about the conditions... if that is what you are referring to...
Was that sector under yellows when Jules went off?
I feel like they need to change the safety rules around recovering cars with tractors after this incident. Get the pack under control with the safety car, then let the tractor go out.
The amount of times I have heard Brundle talk about how dangerous those tractors are while commentating, now this terrible accident. I don't even know... Such a terrible accident.
I feel like they need to change the safety rules around recovering cars with tractors after this incident. Get the pack under control with the safety car, then let the tractor go out.
The amount of times I have heard Brundle talk about how dangerous those tractors are while commentating, now this terrible accident. I don't even know... Such a terrible accident.
It was under double yellows according to the FIA.
Graphic shows that yellow markers were activated from the Spoon to Casino from the moment Sutil crashed, but this idiot at crash site waved greens shortly after Bianchi crashed.
It was double waved yellows at the time.
I think more could be lifted out with a crane the oher side of the barrier rather than tractors driving around like they do in Monaco. If we have a safety car every time any car needs to be removed we'd never have a race.
I'm surprised that the race started as late as it did with the threat of the rain and the fading light being what it was, and I was really enjoying it once it got started. Nice to see Nico and Lewis keeping each other honest on the track in very difficult conditions.
Hopefully Jules can make a recovery and the FIA and F1 in general can learn something from the accident. We should at least be thankful that none of the stewards were in the path of his car as it came off the track.
Graphic shows that yellow markers were activated from the Spoon to Casino from the moment Sutil crashed, but this idiot at crash site waved greens shortly after Bianchi crashed.
Is that not signifying that it's green from here? There's no point waving yellow flags AFTER an accident, it needs to be before it. I've seen green flags immediately after an accident plenty of times, it signifies that the track ahead is clear.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
Definitely need more monaco style cranes behind the barriers.
It does from this end, no telling what it looks like on the other side though. Best I can tell it impacted on the rear on the other side from the picture, so you wouldn't see it from this angle.
Psychotext
Member
Sutil there watching. Must have been horrible.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see recovery procedures modified, and I don't think there would be any harm in it. We've seen one marshall die this year because of falling under a wheel, and yesterday we saw Bianchi seriously injured because of an impact with the rear of one of the vehicles.
So yeah, I'd like to see more off track cranes... and if not, maybe surround the recovery tractors in a skirt that would stop cars / people going under them.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see recovery procedures modified, and I don't think there would be any harm in it. We've seen one marshall die this year because of falling under a wheel, and yesterday we saw Bianchi seriously injured because of an impact with the rear of one of the vehicles.
So yeah, I'd like to see more off track cranes... and if not, maybe surround the recovery tractors in a skirt that would stop cars / people going under them.
Business
Member
It's easy to blame race direction now but I have to admit if after Sutil's crash we got a safety car right away I would have called it bullshit.
With the benefit of hindsight it seems now foolish to get that crane out while the race is still going, but cranes and marshals in the runoff areas is something that we have grown accustomed and it's a risk we sort of accept, because even if we see it can be very dangerous, the probability for such a freak accident didn't seem to warrant change. Europe's GP 2007 is a very good example and because nobody was hurt, nothing was done, and that seemed fine to most. That's another more recent example in MotoGP with the same outcome.
We only learn the hard way and it always takes a big accident for safety to improve. The best thing we can learn from this one is to switch to Monaco style cranes on every circuit and if the mobile ones absolutely have to be deployed, always get the safety car out first.
With the benefit of hindsight it seems now foolish to get that crane out while the race is still going, but cranes and marshals in the runoff areas is something that we have grown accustomed and it's a risk we sort of accept, because even if we see it can be very dangerous, the probability for such a freak accident didn't seem to warrant change. Europe's GP 2007 is a very good example and because nobody was hurt, nothing was done, and that seemed fine to most. That's another more recent example in MotoGP with the same outcome.
We only learn the hard way and it always takes a big accident for safety to improve. The best thing we can learn from this one is to switch to Monaco style cranes on every circuit and if the mobile ones absolutely have to be deployed, always get the safety car out first.
Psychotext
Member
Yup, Liuzzi there (NBR 2007) was a perfect example. Luck more than judgement.
cranes only work in Monaco because of the narrowness of the circuit. On normal tracks there will always be situations where the car is stranded too far away from the fencing to crane it off.
Skirts around vehicles sounds sensible. You could probably at minimum put the material they use in front of tyre barriers around them
Skirts around vehicles sounds sensible. You could probably at minimum put the material they use in front of tyre barriers around them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtshScbX4sk
Time to change these trucks / add more monaco style cranes...
Also there was double yellow and the green flag is always shown after the incident to show that it is safe after the situation...
I'm not sure what the FIA's rules are, but in the sanctioning bodies I've done road racing with a green at that station would be seen as "haul ass" through that sector. You're looking well ahead at the flag stations - things like racing back to the line under a yellow are more a part of the circle track world.
I know what a green flag means, but I wouldn't expect a green to be displayed immediately after (and in the vicinity of) a crash, marshalls, and large track equipment.
Obviously a judgement call (or just the camera angle), but I'd expect a standing yellow there.
This I don't get either. If there was a lapped car between you and the guy in front of you (in the race) then you need to get past him. The guy in front already did, so why should you get a free pass and be right on his tail?
I guess it is to avoid a ton of blue flags right from the start, but tough.
I'd also be curious to know if it would be possible to have all drivers hold station, but at a lower speed. They track them so closely that I'm sure that would be possible within reason. Even kicking in something like the pit lane speed limiter on all cars (but faster) so they all drive at the same max speed. That would avoid situations where a driver builds up a lead through hard work, but it disappears with a safety car.
Why standing yellow? Why would they need to lift off if they have passed the accident?
Business
Member
It's to avoid creating another dangerous situation with slow cars in the middle of faster cars on a tight pack. A safety car creating another unsafe situation defeats its purpose.
Telemetry data shows, BIA the only driver who didn´t significantly reduce speed in the double yellow sector. He lost the rear, overcompensated, came out sideways, skipped over the gravel which did not significantly slow him down, and crashed under the counterweights of the tractor.
Operation seems to have been a success, he´s even breathing by himself by now.
I hope he makes a speedy full recovery.
Meanwhile, MCL is a mess.
The new car wont be ready for the first 2015 tests, they will have to go with the hybrid for at least the first. Engine is behind in dev.
Ron Dennis seems to be unable to come up with the money he needs to pay by the end of October. Now does powerplays, as long as he´s still in charge. ALO and BUT contracts are done and ready, he simply refuses to sign them. Lots of speculation, that he wants to exact revenge on ALO for the 160Mio$ he cost him, and wants to force him out of F1 for a year.
Even if Honda engine comes out a rocket, the car wont likely be competitive before half of 2015 season is over.
Operation seems to have been a success, he´s even breathing by himself by now.
I hope he makes a speedy full recovery.
Meanwhile, MCL is a mess.
The new car wont be ready for the first 2015 tests, they will have to go with the hybrid for at least the first. Engine is behind in dev.
Ron Dennis seems to be unable to come up with the money he needs to pay by the end of October. Now does powerplays, as long as he´s still in charge. ALO and BUT contracts are done and ready, he simply refuses to sign them. Lots of speculation, that he wants to exact revenge on ALO for the 160Mio$ he cost him, and wants to force him out of F1 for a year.
Even if Honda engine comes out a rocket, the car wont likely be competitive before half of 2015 season is over.
Source? Or tales from my ass?
ConstructMe
Banned
how can ron be fired tho if he owns 25% of the company? fucking hope he stays in. Also why the hell would they ditch k mag. But fuck f1 needs guys like alonso why shaft him at the height of his skill fuck who knows if in 2016 hes past it like kimi.
RD has time until the end of the month to come up with the money for the shares of Mansour Ojjeh and the Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding. If he doesn´t, or they sell to someone else (rumors say Ojjeh prefers Whitmarsh, and the Bahrainis want new blood like Horner, Brawn or Berger) he´d basically relegated to second row. Right now no one knows how this´ll end up.
Honda want BUT for his experience and development skills, and ALO for being fast. They opened the wallet pretty wide to get them both, and that´d make MAG the odd man out.
Makes perfect sense to me, are your sources trustworthy though because I remember reading here that Honda didn't want Button, maybe was one of your posts, not sure though, it's been a long time.
I was surprised about how much EJ and DC were agreeing on Button being out next year. While I understand you might not want two 'older' drivers in the team long term (causing continuity issues if they both retire at the same time), I'd have thought Button would be attractive to Honda - isn't he a pretty well known driver in Japan?
Oh, please be true !
I don't know what source you've got but there have been conflicting reports about this and it's definitely a positive sign if he is breathing on his own.
- Honda want BUT. Right from the start of their F1 project. They promised him a golden exit from F1 if he does a two year contract.
- But RD would prefer to go younger.
- ALO situation is still unsettled. Now that he doesn´t have an alternative to MCL, he´s on the wrong side of the bargaining end. He wanted a clause in his contract, that he could leave after a year, if Honda is not competitive. For obvious reasons they now balk at that.
- Like outlined above, leadership/ownership of MCL is, uhm, somewhat unsettled right now, lets put it that way.
- MAG is still an alternative, for however the BUT/ALO situations play out.
I said quite the contrary. Honda wanted BUT right from the start of their project.
My misunderstanding then, maybe it was MCL or RD specifically tht didn't really care for JB. Anyway I hope he stays, I like him and I really value him much higher than most people here. I also believe he can be a great pair to Fernando.
ConstructMe
Banned
you say they want guys like horner or berger at mclaren instead, but how could any of them have more chance of finding the money than ron who is rich as fuck? just seems like hes being screwed out of his own company
I agree. At least on paper it´d be the perfect pairing for a new F1 project. You got one driver who doesn´t mind putting in the long hours in the simulator and with the engineers; and one who´ll take the car to its full potential.
And BUT wouldn´t be a threat to ALO, so he should be very happy with that too.
Two answers:
1. I think its obvious no one pulls a deal like that from pocket change, not even RD. You bring in banks and sponsors. The rumored names have at least as good a chance to do so as RD has.
2. If you prefer to sell something to person B instead of person A, you do offer B better terms, right?
By the way, forgot to ask, how certain you are about this? I thought this was already dismissed as false.
edit
@Juicy Bob 2001 Minardi is way faster than the shitcars we hve now
ConstructMe
Banned
Thanks man i get you now
Several reports have been pulled, as the FIA, team and hospital want to let his father handle the announcements when he´s arrived.
Minardi is way faster than the shitcars we hve now
Please stop this!
This years cars are awesome, and a huge step up from the last years zero-torque-on-rails abominations.As Ark Said, they need all the cars together, but not only that, they need to be doing some higher speed than the pit limiter because they need some heat in the tyres and brakes.
I agree, lapped cars should just pull to one side and let the order sort itself out that way. Going all the way around is ridiculous.
nature boy
Member
Would Alonso really tear his Ferrari contract without some sort of agreement with another team? Really hard to believe.
My guess is it's down to financial details and now Ron is playing hardball to get a better deal for Mclaren and that sooner or later Honda is going to solve the issue.