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[Dilly]

Just doesn't make sense to make that gamble on a circuit like Monaco where it's pretty much impossible to overtake, especially so since Mercedes were running in 1-2 order. I was reading articles about the super softs were to hard and could pretty much last the whole race.

So stupid.

 

[dubc35]

lol, did I just hear Kimi say "That's not very nice" about a Ricciardo move on him? Amazing if so.


That's perfect, thanks. Is it safe to say the rest (from the beginning) of the race is largely boring and not worth watching?

I fast forwarded several times until the crash. I found it a procession.

You could watch ALO's car die, lol. It's not worth it. BUT got points though! McL/Honda domination!

 

[Shaneus]

Just doesn't make sense to make that gamble on a circuit like Monaco where it's pretty much impossible to overtake, especially so since Mercedes were running in 1-2 order. I was reading articles about the super softs were to hard and could pretty much last the whole race.

So stupid.

But like they said, several people pitted during that SC and Danny Ricky used it to make up two spots (on Kvyat and Kimi). But I think it was a stupid decision to do it to a driver that was in front. Understandably, Hamilton should be pissed.

I'm sure he's crying in his wads of cash right now.

 

[theignoramus]

The second impact on that Verstappen crash is fucking scary. He's lucky he walked away from that without a concussion, especially since his 17 year old brain isnt even fully mature yet.

 

[dubc35]

The second impact on that Verstappen crash is fucking scary. He's lucky he walked away from that without a concussion, especially since his 17 year old brain isnt even fully mature yet.

I was prepared for the worst seeing his head fly forward on the onboard camera. Glad he is ok.

 

[Mastah]

Jos Verstappen says the Toro Rosso team data shows Verstappen braked earlier than the previous lap when the accident happened. I am a bit puzzled why they still judged it with a grid penalty and penalty points instead of a racing incident and left it at that.

Like father, like son:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x17knmh_f1-2001-interlagos-gp-verstappen-montoya-collision_auto

"I saw that I was given a blue flag and I saw Montoya coming so I went to the left to let him past. Once he came past I moved back over onto the racing line and he then braked very early. I'm very sorry for him because I heard he was leading the race, but I couldn't avoid him, I hit him and that was it."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Choizr91OCk

"I braked in the same spot like the lap before but he clearly braked 10-15 metres earlier. When it is that close, you have no room. He caught me by surprise. I realised at the moment he braked, but by then it is too late because you don't expect someone to brake that early."

Guess what? According to telemetry Montoya braked within 2 metres of braking point on previous lap and Grosjean, according to what Auto Motor und Sport reports, braked actually later than on previous lap.

Like father, like son indeed.

 

[Business]

Thanks, despite both being open wheel, there are definitely some noticeable differences in how the cars look, so it's interesting to learn the difference in front wing importance to F1.

Watching it also made me want to watch the F1 cars on a high speed loop. I think since starting to watch F1 I've come to appreciate auto racing in general much more then I used to.

F1 cars would need to be further away in the high speed corners of Indy, then would catch up in the straight thanks to DRS and people would call it cheap, then the experts would claim we need more downforce.

 

[John_B]

A dead or comatose 17-year-old kid would be very hurtful to the image of F1. While many fans call for extreme cars it's good to be reminded that safety should be the main factor in deciding regulations.

Verstappen is clearly very talented. The people around him should probably do more to get rid of the pressure on him. Not much talk about learning, more talk about how impressive he is, backed up by excuses when he does not deliver the results.

 

[Risgroo]

A dead or comatose 17-year-old kid would be very hurtful to the image of F1. While many fans call for extreme cars it's good to be reminded that safety should be the main factor in deciding regulations.

Verstappen is clearly very talented. The people around him should probably do more to get rid of the pressure on him. Not much talk about learning, more talk about how impressive he is, backed up by excuses when he does not deliver the results.

I'm sure Jos gave him a very supportive caning after the race.

 

[mrklaw]

What went I wit the virtual->real safety car? BBC highlights skipped a ton of those laps so I didn't see the transition. Does the virtual safety car bunch everyone up, or just peg everyone's relative positions at a slower speed? If so, maybe Mercedes thought they had a big enough gap,nw hitch the real safety car then messed up by bunching everyone up before they could get round to the out entrance.

Why switch to the real car anyway? Virtual looked like it would be good enough - the crash site was off the track and the drivers would already have seen it to know to be careful there.

 

[DrM]

Why switch to the real car anyway? Virtual looked like it would be good enough - the crash site was off the track and the drivers would already have seen it to know to be careful there.

There were parts of the car on the track, plus marshals had to use track surface for the needed repairs and cars had to do a slight detour over pit lane exit track.

 

[Roude Leiw]

what is the difference between virtual sc and sc?

Spoiler

(besides having a real car on track )

 

[itsgreen]

what is the difference between virtual sc and sc?

Spoiler

(besides having a real car on track )

SC is driving behind the car and that car is leading the field...

VSC is just a speed limiter... so the distances between the drivers remain the same...

 

[Kyougar]

A dead or comatose 17-year-old kid would be very hurtful to the image of F1. While many fans call for extreme cars it's good to be reminded that safety should be the main factor in deciding regulations.

Verstappen is clearly very talented. The people around him should probably do more to get rid of the pressure on him. Not much talk about learning, more talk about how impressive he is, backed up by excuses when he does not deliver the results.

With more extreme cars i.e. not easy to handle, This 17 year old kid would not come into a situation where he can get such an accident because he wouldnt be able to handle such a car.

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

That was an awesome ending to the race!

Unlucky for Lewis, Rosberg done well, he even said Lewis should've won so kudos to him!

I disagree with the people who say RIC should've had a penalty, it was a racing incident where RAI was able to stay on track.

The ALO and HUL incident actually caused HUL to crash Into the barriers. Although it did look like ALO lost the rear of the car.

As for VER and GRO I think VER just misjudged it. The Toro Rosso is extremely good under breaking and all season both TR drivers have been breaking extremely late going into turns as they are confident that the car will stick.

Finally it was nice to see McLaren scoring some points. They really have improved at every point as the season goes on in both qualy and race. Button reckoned that he could've got into Q3 this weekend so with more improvements for Canada it will be interesting to see where they end up.

Obviously Monaco suits them as they are down on power but it's clear they are improving. Need to sort out those reliability issues though.

 

[Dilly]

But like they said, several people pitted during that SC and Danny Ricky used it to make up two spots (on Kvyat and Kimi). But I think it was a stupid decision to do it to a driver that was in front. Understandably, Hamilton should be pissed.

I'm sure he's crying in his wads of cash right now.

Well yes, like you say it's a gamble that could be beneficial, but it doesn't make sense to gamble when you're comfortably in front, and have a teammate right behind you as buffer. Hamilton has every right to be pissed, what a stupid decision.

Just saw the crash, thank god for the HANS device. Looked like a crash that was caused by inexperience.

 

[John_B]

With more extreme cars i.e. not easy to handle, This 17 year old kid would not come into a situation where he can get such an accident because he wouldnt be able to handle such a car.

Granted, the current cars are a bit tame. The proposed increase in performance tries to deal with that.

Still the sport should be responsible about the regulations. It doesn't matter if fans on the couch want a field full of X2010s if they are unsafe for the drivers to handle.

 

[theignoramus]

SC is driving behind the car and that car is leading the field...

VSC is just a speed limiter... so the distances between the drivers remain the same...

Brundle said yesterday there is a notable difference in average speed between the actual safety car and the virtual one.

 

[Dilly]

Rosberg is happy but almost looks embarrassed to be there as the winner, Hamilton is bitter as fuck, rightfully so, and Vettel is bouncing like a newborn baby thinking "LOL ALONSO MADE THE WORST CHOICE OF HIS CAREER YAY ME!!!!!!!!!!!"

Vettel is doing the same thing Alonso did for years, chasing the front-runners and not quite making it.

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

Finally it was nice to see McLaren scoring some points. They really have improved at every point as the season goes on in both qualy and race. Button reckoned that he could've got into Q3 this weekend so with more improvements for Canada it will be interesting to see where they end up.

Obviously Monaco suits them as they are down on power but it's clear they are improving. Need to sort out those reliability issues though.

Canada is up next, they'll be nowhere again.

 

[Kyougar]

What I find interesting:

Would Mercedes have Hamilton pitted if Vettel successfully undercut Rosberg in the first Pitstop?

Would be more hilarious if Vettel would have won this race through this.

 

[JadedWriter]

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Alonso with McLaren feels like when JV started BAR

I think that first year BAR was more competitive though.

 

[Ark]

Alonso with McLaren feels like when JV started BAR

I think that first year BAR was more competitive though.

To be fair, they're making tangible progress every weekend.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

To be fair, they're making tangible progress every weekend.

Yeah, they are definitely getting better. I'm a big Alonso fan so I hope they get better quick!

 

[Dilly]

Reading commentary from the dutch on dutch F1 sites about Verstappen is an interesting insight in human psychology.

 

[Kyougar]

I dont know how reliable it is, but spiegel says, the GPS Data from the Monaco GP was faulty and gave a wrong position for the three frontrunners. Mercedes thought Hamilton was 22 seconds ahead of Rosberg and not 18 seconds like it was in real time.

 

[dubc35]

https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10341663_923628441031421_4327987536311448639_n.jpg?oh=93d506b1f39646e6a96f01a109fac31a&oe=56027778[/IM][/QUOTE]
Perfect!

 

[Business]

HAM track position data was lost mid-race in the live timing app. I'd have thought Mercedes still had a way to accurately know where he was exactly though, even if it's somebody with a chronometer...

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

Yeah, they are definitely getting better. I'm a big Alonso fan so I hope they get better quick!

They won't get quick until they introduce token upgrades, all improvements so far have been mainly on the software side.

The other week Arai hinted at token upgrades for ERS and combustion chamber. Alonso says Austria will be an important step. I'm guessing he'll be testing the full token upgrades in the post race test.

McLaren will win a race this season.

 

[Addnan]

good one.

 

[Mastah]

Reading commentary from the dutch on dutch F1 sites about Verstappen is an interesting insight in human psychology.

Yeah, even on English forums some of the comments are simply bonkers. It's like a cult of his deity Max Verstappen, reincarnation of Senna, being targeted by FIA, sabotaged by Red Bull and Renault, whose talent is way above puny lesser other drivers.

Overtaking was well done artfully, but that stupid Crash-Frenchmen GRO was brake testing Max on the wrong moment. To bad, to bad.

I don’t see how you can penalize him for Grosjean braking early! Verstappen is a better racer than Grosjean can even dream of being. He should have gotten out of the way of future Senna.

I... I just don't get it. I would maybe understand it if we would be talking about a driver from a country where life is tough and he's their star in international sport, like Kvyat, Perez or Maldonado. But I don't see how that applies to Dutch fans. Sooo... why?

I thought it was bad with Kimi widows (sabotaged by Santander, Domenicali, Montezemolo, Alonso, Boullier, Permane), but this, this is something else.

 

[Ark]

The vast majority of his moves this year have been reckless. I still don't see how any of his super-dives at China were 'impressive'. His overtakes look more "oh gee I hope this goes alright and I don't crash" more than skill and finesse.

Sure, he has potential, but he's driving like a complete rookie right now.

 

[Dilly]

They won't get quick until they introduce token upgrades, all improvements so far have been mainly on the software side.

The other week Arai hinted at token upgrades for ERS and combustion chamber. Alonso says Austria will be an important step. I'm guessing he'll be testing the full token upgrades in the post race test.

McLaren will win a race this season.

Oh c'mon WFV, how are they suddenly going to beat both Ferrari and Mercedes just by using a few tokens?

Verstappen being worshipped is just annoying, he has potential but he's still very obviously a rookie. Not to mention that Sainz Jr. barely got any hype but is holding up amazingly well results wise.

Also, Hamilton hasn't made a tweet since saturday, I'm worried.

 

[DrM]

Ferrari won't introduce rumored upgraded PU for Canada (fairy tales from Italian journalists about 30 hp upgrade)

 

[Mastah]

It would be amazing if Mercedes quietly shows up with upgraded power unit in Canada (7 out of 8 cars powered by Merc completed 6 races on single PU) and gains something in the region of 30 bhp. The reactions

 

[Fox Mulder]

McLaren will win a race this season.

 

[DrM]

It would be amazing if Mercedes quietly shows up with upgraded power unit in Canada (7 out of 8 cars powered by Merc completed 6 races on single PU) and gains something in the region of 30 bhp. The reactions

Well, there is new PU from Mercedes planned for Canada ...

 

[Psychotext]

The vast majority of his moves this year have been reckless. I still don't see how any of his super-dives at China were 'impressive'. His overtakes look more "oh gee I hope this goes alright and I don't crash" more than skill and finesse.

Sure, he has potential, but he's driving like a complete rookie right now.

That's pretty much how I felt about it. Leaning heavily on the "If x% of your car is alongside then they must give you room" rule. Real online racing overtaking stuff at times.

"Move out of my way or we crash, your choice"

 

[ramparter]

Alonso with McLaren feels like when JV started BAR

I think that first year BAR was more competitive though.

Nah, first year BAR was atrocious in terms of reliability. Just look at those retires: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAR_01

I dont know how reliable it is, but spiegel says, the GPS Data from the Monaco GP was faulty and gave a wrong position for the three frontrunners. Mercedes thought Hamilton was 22 seconds ahead of Rosberg and not 18 seconds like it was in real time.

I'm quite positive that live timing actually mentioned that they had no telementry of Hamilton but that it didn't affect the gaps.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Nah, first year BAR was atrocious in terms of reliability. Just look at those retires: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAR_01


I'm quite positive that live timing actually mentioned that they had no telementry of Hamilton but that it didn't affect the gaps.

My memory may be a bit fuzzy, but I remember JV running high in the order for several races though. He was 5th or something like that in the first race until his rear wing came off...

 

[DrM]

I dont know how reliable it is, but spiegel says, the GPS Data from the Monaco GP was faulty and gave a wrong position for the three frontrunners. Mercedes thought Hamilton was 22 seconds ahead of Rosberg and not 18 seconds like it was in real time.

I have some knowledge about GPS and it is quite plausable that they had problems - many things affect GPS accuracy, from satellite constelation (how many satellites you can "see" and that could be quite difficult in Monte Carlo due to terrain configuration) to high buildings, tunnels and trees (in surveying there are DOP number that represent signal fallout due to constellation and obstacles - the higher it is, the worse is accuracy).

There is also possibility for some interference with lots of devices on small area. And F1 cars are fast moving vehicles, so in my opinion, you can easily miscalculate exact advantage via GPS on such track as Monaco. Add some possibility for malfunctioning GPS and you have all things together

 

[PdotMichael]

I have some knowledge about GPS and it is quite plausable that they had problems - many things affect GPS accuracy, from satellite constelation (how many satellites you can "see" and that could be quite difficult in Monte Carlo due to terrain configuration) to high buildings, tunnels and trees (in surveying there are DOP number that represent signal fallout due to constellation and obstacles - the higher it is, the worse is accuracy).

There is also possibility for some interference with lots of devices on small area. And F1 cars are fast moving vehicles, so in my opinion, you can easily miscalculate exact advantage via GPS on such track as Monaco. Add some possibility for malfunctioning GPS and you have all things together

Or just Hamilton's GPS device was faulty. Commercial GPS is pretty robust and would have affected more than just Hamilton.

 

[kharma45]

I dont know how reliable it is, but spiegel says, the GPS Data from the Monaco GP was faulty and gave a wrong position for the three frontrunners. Mercedes thought Hamilton was 22 seconds ahead of Rosberg and not 18 seconds like it was in real time.

BBC podcast with James Allen said that the GPS is essentially useless around Monaco and doesn't work.

 

[freakzilla149]

HAM track position data was lost mid-race in the live timing app. I'd have thought Mercedes still had a way to accurately know where he was exactly though, even if it's somebody with a chronometer...

That's all good to know but that still leaves the question of why pit Hamilton but not Nico. There were so few laps that the result was already decided, even with shit tyres Vettel would have to first get past Rosberg to even attack Lewis.

 

[Ty4on]

You need a shot of the ROS-HAM-VET triangle as HAM came out of the pits.

 

[Shaneus]

I have some knowledge about GPS and it is quite plausable that they had problems - many things affect GPS accuracy, from satellite constelation (how many satellites you can "see" and that could be quite difficult in Monte Carlo due to terrain configuration) to high buildings, tunnels and trees (in surveying there are DOP number that represent signal fallout due to constellation and obstacles - the higher it is, the worse is accuracy).

I thought it was less about the gap and more about the difference between gaps b/w VSC and regular SC. Isn't it that during VSC you keep the gap and position but regular SC is just position? And because it was VSC then went to SC it screwed him over?

That's just what I've heard/interpreted anyway. But I haven't looked too deeply into it.

Well yes, like you say it's a gamble that could be beneficial, but it doesn't make sense to gamble when you're comfortably in front, and have a teammate right behind you as buffer. Hamilton has every right to be pissed, what a stupid decision.

Yeah, regardless of what caused it, I think it was a stupid decision in general regardless of gap. They cost the team points in the all important manufacturers championship.

Just saw the crash, thank god for the HANS device. Looked like a crash that was caused by inexperience.

I didn't see it as an inexperience thing... unless you're talking about inexperience of Grosjean. He took a strange line through that corner and Jos Jr. never had a hope of taking evasive action.

 

[Juicy Bob]

I'm assuming drivers can go quicker under a typical Safety Car period than under a Virtual Safety Car as even though they still have to drive to a time delta, the target lap time they must achieve is probably faster than what they'd do while being forced to stay to a very slow speed throughout the whole lap under a VSC.

That, I'm also assuming, might have contributed to Mercedes completely misjudging the gap.

 

[Dilly]

I didn't see it as an inexperience thing... unless you're talking about inexperience of Grosjean. He took a strange line through that corner and Jos Jr. never had a hope of taking evasive action.

That's the point, he should've anticipated taking evasive action. He tried to do a switchback way too close to Grosjean and clipped him.

Telemetry already showed that Grosjean braked well within the braking zone, so Verstappen was just too close.

 

[DrM]

I'm assuming drivers can go quicker under a typical Safety Car period than under a Virtual Safety Car as even though they still have to drive to a time delta, the target lap time they must achieve is probably faster than what they'd do while being forced to stay to a very slow speed throughout the whole lap under a VSC.

That, I'm also assuming, might have contributed to Mercedes completely misjudging the gap.

Isn't VSC only there for a sector where incident happened?

Also they turned VSC into SC in around 20 seconds...whatever it was precise reason it was still complete pit wall blunder no matter how you turn it.