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The Formula 1 2015 Season |OT| Formula E Feeder Series

J

JadedWriter

Member
Dan27 said:
Well, Villeneuve to BAR made him a very rich man, considering it was his manager's team. And Hill came closer to winning a race in the Arrows that Alonso will probably this year.

If anything, I blame McLaren in switching engine providers to a company that was wholly unprepared after only one year of development.
Click to expand...
I'm still wondering if the switch to Honda had more reasoning behind the scenes. Ron's spiel about "we'll never win being a customer team" does sound a bit weird. Granted they'd have to pay for the engines, but even Williams pays for the damn things and they're much smaller than McLaren is.
Myoclonic Jerk said:
Alonso totally deserves what he got. He screwed himself out of McLaren where if he only focused less on politics it would've been a breeze win for him. Even with Hamilton drama going on. And come to Ferrari, he's more involved in management and "running" the team and getting into more politics which made the team choose not to renew for him and show him the door which he stupidly walked through..

His talent might be unparalleled but as a person he's a scum who doesn't deserve any sympathy
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I don't shed a single tear for Alonso, this is pretty much the bad decisions of his life just catching up with him and pretty much napalming him. If he made the initial switch to McLaren in 2007 work for him instead of acting like a fucking prima donna then he would've had at least one or both of those championships from 07 or 08. If he didn't make some rather stupid mistakes in 2010 he would've had that championship as well. I get the feeling that Ferrari doesn't exactly enjoy their drivers telling them how to run their operations so them tossing him out on his ass was bound to eventually happen. Yes he made the team look good by putting their shit ass cars in positions they had no purpose being in, but he still shouldn't have acted like he was better than the team. I still laugh at him thinking a Mercedes seat was going to open up for him. Those guys love Hamilton and even if he did waltz into the team I can't see the management liking him. Could you imagine Lauda trying to deal with Alonso?
 
A

Ark

Member
Today's event in the 'Hyperbole Olympics' is the Long Jump-to-conclusions!

McLaren will be back where they belong, they've served their sentence for being incompetent.
 
Myoclonic Jerk

Myoclonic Jerk

Member
Ark said:
Today's event in the 'Hyperbole Olympics' is the Long Jump-to-conclusions!

McLaren will be back where they belong, they've served their sentence for being incompetent.
Click to expand...

McLaren have been simply bad, they had the best engine last year and what did they do with it? And going back to Honda? That's just plain stupid, when was the last time Honda prove themselves as a top engine manufacturer? They were good 25 years ago, and in today's business 25 days are considered a long time. The only reason I can see for them shaking hands with Honda is money and probably for reasons beyond F1. Under the current rules I can't see them catching up let alone going back to being a top team.

Question, isn't McLaren developing their own road car engines? If so, why don't they have their own F1 engine?
 
D

DD

Member
JadedWriter said:
I'm still wondering if the switch to Honda had more reasoning behind the scenes. Ron's spiel about "we'll never win being a customer team" does sound a bit weird. Granted they'd have to pay for the engines, but even Williams pays for the damn things and they're much smaller than McLaren is.

I don't shed a single tear for Alonso, this is pretty much the bad decisions of his life just catching up with him and pretty much napalming him. If he made the initial switch to McLaren in 2007 work for him instead of acting like a fucking prima donna then he would've had at least one or both of those championships from 07 or 08. If he didn't make some rather stupid mistakes in 2010 he would've had that championship as well. I get the feeling that Ferrari doesn't exactly enjoy their drivers telling them how to run their operations so them tossing him out on his ass was bound to eventually happen. Yes he made the team look good by putting their shit ass cars in positions they had no purpose being in, but he still shouldn't have acted like he was better than the team. I still laugh at him thinking a Mercedes seat was going to open up for him. Those guys love Hamilton and even if he did waltz into the team I can't see the management liking him. Could you imagine Lauda trying to deal with Alonso?
Click to expand...
I'd pay to see him dealing with Helmut Marko though.

giphy.gif
 
J

JadedWriter

Member
hadareud said:
Usual, heh.
Click to expand...
Williams used to be a top team and even now I don't think they would be as egotistical as Dennis seems to be regarding the status of their team. They haven't finished on top since 1998. Within that time frame Lotus/Renault has won more constructors championships than them. McLaren has a great legacy, but they've squandered the talents of a lot of their drivers since Hakkinen.
DD said:
I'd pay to see him dealing with Helmut Marko though.

giphy.gif
Click to expand...
Oh god there would be like a controversial headline a day coming out of those two. The press would never be bored with that combination.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
JadedWriter said:
Williams used to be a top team and even now I don't think they would be as egotistical as Dennis seems to be regarding the status of their team. They haven't finished on top since 1998. Within that time frame Lotus/Renault has won more constructors championships than them. McLaren has a great legacy, but they've squandered the talents of a lot of their drivers since Hakkinen.
Click to expand...

Sine Hakkinen left, they were outside the top 3 in the Championship once apart from the last two seasons. McLaren is a team with much bigger resources and a much richer history than Williams.

The two don't compare at all.
 
J

JadedWriter

Member
hadareud said:
Sine Hakkinen left, they were outside the top 3 in the Championship once apart from the last two seasons. McLaren is a team with much bigger resources and a much richer history than Williams.

The two don't compare at all.
Click to expand...
Don't worry I see your point. Williams did have a pretty drastic drop, which is what McLaren is going through...again. Is this they're worst period since they were racing with Peugeot engines?
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
Oh definitely, but they have been hamstrung from a budgetary point for a very long time.

JadedWriter said:
Don't worry I see your point. Williams did have a pretty drastic drop, which is what McLaren is going through...again. Is this they're worst period since they were racing with Peugeot engines?
Click to expand...

Yeah, easily.

The thing is, their car seems pretty decent this season. It really is all down to their engine. We'll see how it goes on that front, I think in five or so races time we'll have a pretty good idea whether there's a chance that they will have an engine to compete next season.
 
J

JadedWriter

Member
hadareud said:
Oh definitely, but they have been hamstrung from a budgetary point for a very long time.



Yeah, easily.

The thing is, their car seems pretty decent this season. It really is all down to their engine. We'll see how it goes on that front, I think in five or so races time we'll have a pretty good idea whether there's a chance that they will have an engine to compete next season.
Click to expand...
I hope they get better. The car ain't half bad despite it looking like a Cylon with that livery, they're running out of time though. Granted they can still upgrade the engine, but eventually by around what Spa they'll have to stop upgrading this car and start on next years? If that's the case they won't really know what direction to go on for next seasons car?
 
A

Ark

Member
JadedWriter said:
I hope they get better. The car ain't half bad despite it looking like a Cylon with that livery, they're running out of time though. Granted they can still upgrade the engine, but eventually by around what Spa they'll have to stop upgrading this car and start on next years? If that's the case they won't really know what direction to go on for next seasons car?
Click to expand...

They'll have plenty of positive aero data to use. The only question mark over their development next season is all with regards to Honda. Granted, McLaren could be a little less aggressive with the rear-packaging to give Honda a bit of breathing room, but eh.

Myoclonic Jerk said:
McLaren have been simply bad, they had the best engine last year and what did they do with it? And going back to Honda? That's just plain stupid, when was the last time Honda prove themselves as a top engine manufacturer? They were good 25 years ago, and in today's business 25 days are considered a long time. The only reason I can see for them shaking hands with Honda is money and probably for reasons beyond F1. Under the current rules I can't see them catching up let alone going back to being a top team.

Question, isn't McLaren developing their own road car engines? If so, why don't they have their own F1 engine?
Click to expand...

I'm not looking at their past results, they tell a very clear story. I'm looking forwards.

F1 engines are a fair bit different to road engines.

JadedWriter said:
So they'll be back to their usual fifth in the WCC?
Click to expand...

That was the Whitmarsh era of 'race by race' rather than 'championship by championship'. Though tbf, it's not like the opposite worked out for Ferrari during those years.
 
J

JadedWriter

Member
Ark said:
They'll have plenty of positive aero data to use. The only question mark over their development next season is all with regards to Honda. Granted, McLaren could be a little less aggressive with the rear-packaging to give Honda a bit of breathing room, but eh.
Click to expand...
That is so true. They need to go from a size 0 booty to at least a size 6 or something. I don't exactly know how Mercedes is doing it, but they were at it for I think 4 years regarding their hybrid engines.
Ark said:
That was the Whitmarsh era of 'race by race' rather than 'championship by championship'. Though tbf, it's not like the opposite worked out for Ferrari during those years.
Click to expand...
In hindsight Whitmarsh really didn't know how to unlock their potential.
 
D

DBT85

Member
Did anyone else see the Maldonator video on youtube?

12 minutes of his finest work and at 6:58 he ge a PSN trophy "Crash into both Force Indias in one corner" lol


Very nicely put together with other peoples reactions to other things cut in to fit lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9GtxYrMQcI

EDIt: Its like watching a kid play a racing game for the first time. Just drive into everyone.
 
R

ramparter

Banned
Adam Scott Aukerman said:
Damon very nearly won a race in that bloody Arrows, and while BAR's first season was pretty disastrous, under 2015 rules, they would have had 7 points finishes. McLaren might be lucky to match that.
Click to expand...
Long term though which deal has the biggest potential? McLaren Honda might be a winning combination in the end, Arrows definetely wouldn't be. BAR was a new team, perhaps they had strong backing but still a new team in F1 needs a lot of time and even then the odds are against them.
 
J

JadedWriter

Member
ramparter said:
Long term though which deal has the biggest potential? McLaren Honda might be a winning combination in the end, Arrows definetely wouldn't be. BAR was a new team, perhaps they had strong backing but still a new team in F1 needs a lot of time and even then the odds are against them.
Click to expand...
And will your opinion still be the same if McHonda doesn't get their act straight before Alonso retires?
 
T

Templar Wizard

Member
Whats with the reaction to Alonso leaving Ferrari? so far it doesn't look like the wrong decision BASED on his wish to win races, Ferrari are not beating Mercedes on pace or performance, they need Mercedes to LOSE the race.

Alonso's career at Ferrari had him finishing 2nd in the WDC more than not, and in a car with no performance superiority or parity. Lots of promises from Ferrari that they would correct it, never happened. In fact, Vettel seems to be having a typical 'Alonso' season at Ferrari.

So Honda come back with a very young but aggressive approach to performance, trying to do something different to beat Mercedes.
What was he to do? Stay with Ferrari and do EXACTLY the same as he has been doing for the last 5 years? Or try something different?
This isn't Hill going to arrows or JV going to a completely new team. McLaren and Honda are different animals.

We are seeing 2 huge companies developing in plain sight with a very experienced pair of drivers.
They have all said the same, this is development year. Its embarrassing to be retiring all the time for sure, but we could also be watching the rise of a real challenger to Mercedes.
 
K

Kyougar

Member
depends if he has the mental ability to not get crushed by this current Situation. He is not getting younger and anyone (Ark) who is saying they will fight for Wins next season is dilusional. Should we really believe, that a Team that had the best engine last year but shit Car design this year, has a good car design this year but shit Engine? The shit Engine part is true at least. "Tight packaging" doesnt mean that the Car would be a rocket with a functioning Engine.

He could break if McLaren isnt fighting for podium next year, hell I expect him to break this year (DONT WANT TO! WANT TO RACE!)

It could be that he isnt competitive anymore in year 3 after 2 years with McLaren.
 
P

PdotMichael

Banned
Well, Toyota was a big company with one of the highest budget in F1. Didn't help them to turn into a race winning team.
And not that Honda was incredible successful the last time they tried.

Even if Alonso claims he is playing the long game, his whining after not even 1/2 season proves he does indeed care about the general performance of his car.
 
D

Dilly

Banned
PdotMichael said:
Well, Toyota was a big company with one of the highest budget in F1. Didn't help them to turn into a race winning team.
And not that Honda was incredible successful the last time they tried.

Even if Alonso claims he is playing the long game, his whining after not even 1/2 season proves he does indeed care about the general performance of his car.
Click to expand...

What world champion wouldn't, the performance in Montreal was a bad joke.

Honda would've won a championship though, if they didn't pull out just before the season they had a championship winning car.
 
A

andshrew

Member
Dilly said:
What world champion wouldn't, the performance in Montreal was a bad joke.

Honda would've won a championship though, if they didn't pull out just before the season they had a championship winning car.
Click to expand...

Pretty hard to say if they would have given that the car that won had the best engine on the grid transplanted in to the back of it, and the Honda engine at the time wasn't exactly renowned as being that great.
 
T

Templar Wizard

Member
PdotMichael said:
Well, Toyota was a big company with one of the highest budget in F1. Didn't help them to turn into a race winning team.
And not that Honda was incredible successful the last time they tried.

Even if Alonso claims he is playing the long game, his whining after not even 1/2 season proves he does indeed care about the general performance of his car.
Click to expand...

He was whining? He just didn't want to save fuel and he tried to keep his pace up, not so great pace that it is.
Whining is RBR and what they are doing, if you want to see a positive.

McLaren have a new design team, so I don't see the comparison to the old cars, if they are seen to have to 3rd best chasis on the grid so far.

Lets see what happens, its not over yet.

"Fernando Alonso’s McLaren with its updated Honda was nestled between the Saubers, struggling much more on this power track than around the tight confines of Monaco. His time was 1.8s adrift of pole. The horsepower shortfall was calculated to be responsible for 1.2s of that. Which suggests that with power parity, the car would be on a similar pace to Ferrari."
 
P

Psychotext

Member
They don't just need power parity though, they need fuel economy parity, and they're a country mile away from that. Even if they could fix their qualifying pace (which isn't too horrific), they need to badly do something about how thirsty the engine is.
 
D

DBT85

Member
I wonder if mandating that the cars must have 100kg of fuel would help with the lift and coast crap. No more short fuelling.
 
P

PdotMichael

Banned
Templar Wizard said:
He was whining? He just didn't want to save fuel and he tried to keep his pace up, not so great pace that it is.
Whining is RBR and what they are doing, if you want to see a positive.

McLaren have a new design team, so I don't see the comparison to the old cars, if they are seen to have to 3rd best chasis on the grid so far.

Lets see what happens, its not over yet.

"Fernando Alonso’s McLaren with its updated Honda was nestled between the Saubers, struggling much more on this power track than around the tight confines of Monaco. His time was 1.8s adrift of pole. The horsepower shortfall was calculated to be responsible for 1.2s of that. Which suggests that with power parity, the car would be on a similar pace to Ferrari."
Click to expand...

Source?
 
D

Dilly

Banned
andshrew said:
Pretty hard to say if they would have given that the car that won had the best engine on the grid transplanted in to the back of it, and the Honda engine at the time wasn't exactly renowned as being that great.
Click to expand...

The Brawn chassis had an advantage with the double diffuser that gave them enough of an edge to win a championship despite a low budget throughout the season. The Honda engine might not have been the best, but I doubt it was the Mercedes powerunit that gave it the advantage, the Renault also wasn't the best engine but RBR still dominated with it.

The fact that it was pretty much shoehorned in the Honda chassis also couldn't have been that great.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
Juicy Bob said:
But that doesn't really say much. If they all used the same engines, the entire field would be closer.
Click to expand...

Well, McLaren used the same engine as Mercedes last year and look where the were.

And if it wasn't the same engine as Mercedes, it certainly was the same as Williams and they didn't compare favourably there either.

I think their car this season is quite good. The engine is not.
 
A

Ark

Member
Kyougar said:
depends if he has the mental ability to not get crushed by this current Situation. He is not getting younger and anyone (Ark) who is saying they will fight for Wins next season is dilusional. Should we really believe, that a Team that had the best engine last year but shit Car design this year, has a good car design this year but shit Engine? The shit Engine part is true at least. "Tight packaging" doesnt mean that the Car would be a rocket with a functioning Engine.

He could break if McLaren isnt fighting for podium next year, hell I expect him to break this year (DONT WANT TO! WANT TO RACE!)

It could be that he isnt competitive anymore in year 3 after 2 years with McLaren.
Click to expand...

You think he's going to break? He spent two years in dog-shit Renault's in 08 & 09 and five frustrating years at 'the best team', and you think he's going to break now?

If you think I'm delusional then by all means, keep calling me that. I'm confident that McLaren-Honda will win ateast one race next season with Fernando/Jenson in the team.

It's funny, literally nobody in this thread expected Ferrari to be hanging onto the coattails of the Mercedes this year, but to suggest that McLaren-Honda can make a similar turnaround makes you 'deluded'.

And if you're going to make the argument that he's getting too old for F1; Schumacher was 42 and held station with Rosberg (who we now know to be a very solid benchmark) and claimed a Monaco pole.

Mastah said:
http://hasmclarenhondawonyet.com/

LOL
Click to expand...

This is perfect.
 
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