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The Formula 1 2015 Season |OT| Formula E Feeder Series

T

Templar Wizard

Member
well, I am sure some of these pundits has some ex/current race engineers advising them or answering their questions. Since they are actually at the races and so on...

Not saying that this Hughes article is 100% accurate, but you never know.

"But that doesn't really say much. If they all used the same engines, the entire field would be closer."

Then explain the different between Mercedes, FI ,Lotus, Williams?????
 
I

itsgreen

Member
Templar Wizard said:
well, I am sure some of these pundits has some ex/current race engineers advising them or answering their questions. Since they are actually at the races and so on...

Not saying that this Hughes article is 100% accurate, but you never know.

"But that doesn't really say much. If they all used the same engines, the entire field would be closer."

Then explain the different between Mercedes, FI ,Lotus, Williams?????
Click to expand...

Mercedes have their own spec...

Williams has money.
 
K

Kyougar

Member
Ark said:
You think he's going to break? He spent two years in dog-shit Renault's in 08 & 09 and five frustrating years at 'the best team', and you think he's going to break now?

If you think I'm delusional then by all means, keep calling me that. I'm confident that McLaren-Honda will win ateast one race next season with Fernando/Jenson in the team.

It's funny, literally nobody in this thread expected Ferrari to be hanging onto the coattails of the Mercedes this year, but to suggest that McLaren-Honda can make a similar turnaround makes you 'deluded'.

And if you're going to make the argument that he's getting too old for F1; Schumacher was 42 and held station with Rosberg (who we now know to be a very solid benchmark) and claimed a Monaco pole.
Click to expand...

So whats the difference between RBR this year and Honda next year? If it was so easy to win races why didnt RBR win a race yet this year? and why hasnt Ferrari won more than 1 race? Honsa isnt even reliable finishing races yet, doesnt even have enough Fueldata (that's why Alonsos bitching about racing was so wrong, they NEED Fuel data)
YES, Ferraris recovery this year was shocking, but I dont believe honda can do the same. Ferrari had more points speaking for them:
- reliable Engine
- (more than others) fuel efficient
- data from more than 1 team
- accaptable aero (package)
- enough money

Honda only has money. And we are only told that the Aero is good
They can work on reliability and fuel efficiancy, but they probably need more data from other teams

Regarding Alonso:
what Future does he have? He has 2 seasons on Honda where he can play end or middlefield. But what about Year 3? Would he stay? Where should he go? Mercedes and Ferrari are not possible. he wouldnt go back to Ferrari and Vettel wouldnt want him there.
Hamilton would also want to have a say if Alonso would want to come to mercedes.
RBR could go either way (performance speaking) I still think that RBR wouldnt want an old driver in their lineup, not if marko has to say about anything.

Formula 1 at this stage has not enough room for many great drivers. If RBR doesnt get better we have only 2 Top Tier Teams.
IF McLaren should get better and has Championship ambitions in year 3 why should they use Alonso? Yes, McLaren of 2014 took Alonso with honours. But after 2 years of bitching? Would a Mclaren of 2016 still hold onto an old grumpy Alonso?

Schumachers comeback was different, he didnt need to accomplish anything anymore. He was just cruising. He did what he wanted to do.
I think his defining moment of the new schumacher was at his crash with ?Luizzi? in the 2010 Abu Dhabi GP. He spinned at the corner and the force india nearly incapitated him.
The new schumacher was seeing laughing and clapping luizzi on the shoulder when they both walked back to the paddock.
 
T

Templar Wizard

Member
itsgreen said:
Mercedes have their own spec...

Williams has money.
Click to expand...

Well, another way of looking is that the aero package is different even though the PU is the same.
So engine isn't everything of course, McLaren some new designers, once (hopefully) Honda gets it PU together their aero concept may give them an edge.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
Ark said:
It's funny, literally nobody in this thread expected Ferrari to be hanging onto the coattails of the Mercedes this year, but to suggest that McLaren-Honda can make a similar turnaround makes you 'deluded'.
Click to expand...

They may very well get that sort of turnaround... but no-one is talking about that, they're talking about having a race winning car. As Alonso says, either they can take the fight to Mercedes (Ferrari isn't), or there's no point.
 
S

Souldestroyer Reborn

Banned
DBT85 said:
Did anyone else see the Maldonator video on youtube?

12 minutes of his finest work and at 6:58 he ge a PSN trophy "Crash into both Force Indias in one corner" lol


Very nicely put together with other peoples reactions to other things cut in to fit lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9GtxYrMQcI

EDIt: Its like watching a kid play a racing game for the first time. Just drive into everyone.
Click to expand...

That was amazing.

The one where he flipped the Sauber? (I think it was Sauber) was just straight up what the fuck.

Gotta admit, F1 would be boring without Crashtor.
 
A

Ark

Member
Kyougar said:
So whats the difference between RBR this year and Honda next year? If it was so easy to win races why didnt RBR win a race yet this year? and why hasnt Ferrari won more than 1 race? Honsa isnt even reliable finishing races yet, doesnt even have enough Fueldata (that's why Alonsos bitching about racing was so wrong, they NEED Fuel data)
YES, Ferraris recovery this year was shocking, but I dont believe honda can do the same. Ferrari had more points speaking for them:
- reliable Engine
- (more than others) fuel efficient
- data from more than 1 team
- accaptable aero (package)
- enough money

Honda only has money. And we are only told that the Aero is good
They can work on reliability and fuel efficiancy, but they probably need more data from other teams

Regarding Alonso:
what Future does he have? He has 2 seasons on Honda where he can play end or middlefield. But what about Year 3? Would he stay? Where should he go? Mercedes and Ferrari are not possible. he wouldnt go back to Ferrari and Vettel wouldnt want him there.
Hamilton would also want to have a say if Alonso would want to come to mercedes.
RBR could go either way (performance speaking) I still think that RBR wouldnt want an old driver in their lineup, not if marko has to say about anything.

Formula 1 at this stage has not enough room for many great drivers. If RBR doesnt get better we have only 2 Top Tier Teams.
IF McLaren should get better and has Championship ambitions in year 3 why should they use Alonso? Yes, McLaren of 2014 took Alonso with honours. But after 2 years of bitching? Would a Mclaren of 2016 still hold onto an old grumpy Alonso?

Schumachers comeback was different, he didnt need to accomplish anything anymore. He was just cruising. He did what he wanted to do.
I think his defining moment of the new schumacher was at his crash with ?Luizzi? in the 2010 Abu Dhabi GP. He spinned at the corner and the force india nearly incapitated him.
The new schumacher was seeing laughing and clapping luizzi on the shoulder when they both walked back to the paddock.
Click to expand...

Are you even reading my posts?

I want to pick this apart, but I learned a while ago that arguing like this in this thread is stupid.

Psychotext said:
They may very well get that sort of turnaround... but no-one is talking about that, they're talking about having a race winning car. As Alonso says, either they can take the fight to Mercedes (Ferrari isn't), or there's no point.
Click to expand...

I agree, but my point is I expect McLaren-Honda to win at least one race in 2016. That seems far more likely than going from where they currently are to going toe-to-toe with Mercedes.
 
D

DD

Member
Templar Wizard said:
Whats with the reaction to Alonso leaving Ferrari? so far it doesn't look like the wrong decision BASED on his wish to win races, Ferrari are not beating Mercedes on pace or performance, they need Mercedes to LOSE the race.

Alonso's career at Ferrari had him finishing 2nd in the WDC more than not, and in a car with no performance superiority or parity. Lots of promises from Ferrari that they would correct it, never happened. In fact, Vettel seems to be having a typical 'Alonso' season at Ferrari.

So Honda come back with a very young but aggressive approach to performance, trying to do something different to beat Mercedes.
What was he to do? Stay with Ferrari and do EXACTLY the same as he has been doing for the last 5 years? Or try something different?
This isn't Hill going to arrows or JV going to a completely new team. McLaren and Honda are different animals.

We are seeing 2 huge companies developing in plain sight with a very experienced pair of drivers.
They have all said the same, this is development year. Its embarrassing to be retiring all the time for sure, but we could also be watching the rise of a real challenger to Mercedes.
Click to expand...

Well, leaving Ferrari and going to McLaren wasn't exactly his choice. Ferrari fired him for acting like a princess. What other option did he had? No other team wanted him, except McLaren, and that's because Honda demanded that. And I don't see his recent actions as being helpful to the Japanese eyes. IMO, his F1 career is about to end. It doesn't mean much being the best driver on the grid when you're seen as the worst person to deal with.
 
T

Templar Wizard

Member
DD said:
Well, leaving Ferrari and going to McLaren wasn't exactly his choice. Ferrari fired him for acting like a princess. What other option did he had? No other team wanted him, except McLaren, and that's because Honda demanded that. And I don't see his recent actions as being helpful to the Japanese eyes. IMO, his F1 career is about to end. It doesn't mean much being the best driver on the grid when you're seen as the worst person to deal with.
Click to expand...


When did Ferrari fire him?
 
J

JadedWriter

Member
DBT85 said:
Did anyone else see the Maldonator video on youtube?

12 minutes of his finest work and at 6:58 he ge a PSN trophy "Crash into both Force Indias in one corner" lol


Very nicely put together with other peoples reactions to other things cut in to fit lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9GtxYrMQcI

EDIt: Its like watching a kid play a racing game for the first time. Just drive into everyone.
Click to expand...
Just saw this...dude's been crashing heavily since GP2, what the fuck is he doing in this sport?
Templar Wizard said:
...ok, was this after he triggered his get out clause? or before it?
Click to expand...
I thought Alonso essentially got kicked out of the team because he couldn't get along with the new management?
 
D

DD

Member
I think it was clear when Ferrari got rid of Massa and brought Kimi back that they were starting to get fed with Lonso's bossy behavior. The problem was that Kimi did even worse than Massa, which gave more power to Fernando. He wasn't fired per se, but I see as even worse, because he wanted to play games with Ferrari without knowing that the team had Vettel already in their hands, and that's what bit Fernando in the ass. He actually wanted to stay 'til 2016, but under his own terms. You don't do that to the Italians, heh.
 
T

Templar Wizard

Member
And then on the other side...
http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/9575351/Alonso-fires-back-at-Ferrari-boss

"Probably I was too old when he tried to renew me until the Monza race and he kept pushing and pushing and we had a lot of talks. Even in the last moments again we had a lot of phone calls and a lot of emails that I still have on my computer. Probably at that time I was not so old, but when I took my decision I guess that he has to find another driver."

There was an obvious falling out and Alonso wanted out from Ferrari earlier in the year, but I don't see that as him being fired for a being a princess. No?
 
D

Dilly

Banned
Not to mention that Ferrari gave him a subpar car for 4 years and he didn't whine about it, except for 2014 where they didn't even get the engine right. He never acted like a princess, that's what people who don't like him keep on imagining.

If a driver would just happily comply with saving fuel when in the middle of a battle with a damn Sauber driving that shithouse of a McLaren, he doesn't deserve to be a world champion.
 
D

DD

Member
That's a fact. I really don't like him since 2007 (his clash with Lewis and the Spygate), and it got worse after the Singaporegate. But let's face it: if he wasn't a "princess", every team would be dying to have him, which is not the case.
 
J

JadedWriter

Member
Dilly said:
Not to mention that Ferrari gave him a subpar car for 4 years and he didn't whine about it, except for 2014 where they didn't even get the engine right. He never acted like a princess, that's what people who don't like him keep on imagining.

If a driver would just happily comply with saving fuel when in the middle of a battle with a damn Sauber driving that shithouse of a McLaren, he doesn't deserve to be a world champion.
Click to expand...
I think just the mere fact that he walked/crawled back to McLaren, a team he pretty much fucked out of $100 million shows that he has the dedication and drive to win again. This venture is just taking him a lot longer to reap the benefits of.
DD said:
That's a fact. I really don't like him since 2007 (his clash with Lewis and the Spygate), and it got worse after the Singaporegate. But let's face it: if he wasn't a "princess", every team would be dying to have him, which is not the case.
Click to expand...
I honestly think the only person that could deal with him is Flavio, other team principals want a little bit more harmony in their teams.
 
A

Adam Scott Aukerman

Member
DD said:
But let's face it: if he wasn't a "princess", every team would be dying to have him, which is not the case.
Click to expand...

Red Bull only hire drivers from their own programme these days, Mercedes don't need him when they have Lewis and a much cheaper Rosberg, and no one else could hope to afford him.
 
D

Dilly

Banned
DD said:
On the other hand, Pat Fry (who worked with him at Renault) said that hiring Alonso would be unhealthy for the team.

EDIT: Ferrari deny Fernando Alonso's contract contains a results-related opt-out clause ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Click to expand...

This:

"With Alonso's expectations, the pressure would rise at Williams to an unhealthy level that would disturb the progress the team is making."
Click to expand...

Would be the same for every driver Williams would hire that already was a WC and wants to win another one. When the discussion is going towards using statements out of context, I'm out. Can't be bothered with it, it has been done a dozen of times before.
 
N

NHale

Member
DD said:
That's a fact. I really don't like him since 2007 (his clash with Lewis and the Spygate), and it got worse after the Singaporegate. But let's face it: if he wasn't a "princess", every team would be dying to have him, which is not the case.
Click to expand...

That's probably why Lauda and Toto Wolff kept talking about him as their alternative if something happened during Hamilton new deal negotiations, right? (To help your memory here is one link with Wolff own words: Fernando Alonso would be top Mercedes target if Lewis Hamilton left, says Toto Wolff).

Right now the Alonso-Ferrari is very well documented for anyone to try to pull stuff out of their ass. Both sides were tired of each other and that's why they agreed on a mutual contract termination (Alonso because he felt disrespected by Kimi hiring as the saviour of the nation and Ferrari because they wanted a fresh start with someone motivated to drive for the team). If any side was not in agreement with this, it would end up with a huge monetary compensation which didn't happened.
 
J

JadedWriter

Member
NHale said:
That's probably why Lauda and Toto Wolff kept talking about him as their alternative if something happened during Hamilton new deal negotiations, right? (To help your memory here is one link with Wolff own words: Fernando Alonso would be top Mercedes target if Lewis Hamilton left, says Toto Wolff).

Right now the Alonso-Ferrari is very well documented for anyone to try to pull stuff out of their ass. Both sides were tired of each other and that's why they agreed on a mutual contract termination (Alonso because he felt disrespected by Kimi hiring as the saviour of the nation and Ferrari because they wanted a fresh start with someone motivated to drive for the team). If any side was not in agreement with this, it would end up with a huge monetary compensation which didn't happened.
Click to expand...
I always thought that was just to get Hamilton to sign the fucking contract already.
 
D

DD

Member
We're discussing about a driver who's said to have blackmailed his boss in 2007 because he refused to be treated equally, and though he was entitled of privileges. A person that ruined Hamilton's chance to set his time at the Hungarian GP on purpose, and that in the following year took part in a new scandal that ruined the career of another young rising talent. So, yeah, I really don't like Fernando as a person, and I honestly too far to know if all the controversy he's involved is true. I base my knowledge on what I read around, and I find really weird that he's always in the middle of this kind of stuff. FFS, he finished Schumacher's reign, he should be loved because of that, but somehow he seems to be seen as a snake. But deep down I guess I want to see his bloody talent on WEC. ;(
 
M

massivekettle

Member
Dilly said:
Not to mention that Ferrari gave him a subpar car for 4 years and he didn't whine about it, except for 2014 where they didn't even get the engine right. He never acted like a princess, that's what people who don't like him keep on imagining.

If a driver would just happily comply with saving fuel when in the middle of a battle with a damn Sauber driving that shithouse of a McLaren, he doesn't deserve to be a world champion.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

2010: Car was really, really good, especially once they put the EBD on.
2011: Forgettable car (clear cut 3rd best)
2012: Car dealt very well with the cheese Pirelli and was excellent in the wet but ultimately, only Alonso's prowess kept him in the championship (that and Lewis playing foiler in the last few rounds of the season)
2013: Car was very good with the cheese Pirellis, and Fernando would have probably won the WDC had Pirelli not changed their tyre construct
2014: Forgettable car

He definitely had 1 WDC car, probably 2, and had another car with which he could win the occasional race and rack up the podiums to stay in contention (like Vettel this year or Ricciardo last year). I wouldn't consider this subpar
 
J

JadedWriter

Member
ksharp said:
I disagree.

2010: Car was really, really good, especially once they put the EBD on.
Click to expand...
Everybody in 2010 was one stupid mistake away from the WDC in 2010. Lewis with Monza, Singapore and his wheel falling off while in 2nd in Hungary? Vettel being Vettel at that point in time when he won and Alonso with his jump start in China, crashing out in Spa, crashing in Monaco practice and I feel like I'm forgetting one, but that's all I can remember. The team covering Webber instead of Vettel was the team, but had he not made one of the previous mistakes it might not have even mattered. They lost that championship together in my opinion.
 
T

Templar Wizard

Member
So Lauda is senile and out of touch sometimes, and then says Alonso's negative is that he is a egocentric..

but then says:

Lauda backs Hamilton, saying drivers have to be 'egocentric bastards'

And for any quote you want to put about Alonso being toxic, you can find another quote or story from peeps like Smedley saying that absolutely not the case.

Its so surprising to see hostility to one of the only drivers who has been giving 110% over the last few years trying to fight against the dominant package and destroying his teammate in the process.


Annnnnyways, Red Bull will start at the Red Back of the Grid at the Red Bull Ring!

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/06/red-bull-set-to-lock-out-back-row-of-the-grid-in-austria/
 
P

PdotMichael

Banned
It doesn't really matter. Alonso is stuck at McLaren and all other top teams like Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull are happy with their top drivers.

He can only hope that Honda will improve in a quite impossible way next year.
 
D

DD

Member
Templar Wizard said:
Its so surprising to see hostility to one of the only drivers who has been giving 110% over the last few years trying to fight against the dominant package and destroying his teammate in the process.
Click to expand...

C'mon, Lonso is my super villain. Don't judge me!

And yes, Hamilton is an egocentric bastard too, and I don't like him either.
 
J

JadedWriter

Member
Templar Wizard said:
So Lauda is senile and out of touch sometimes, and then says Alonso's negative is that he is a egocentric..

but then says:

Lauda backs Hamilton, saying drivers have to be 'egocentric bastards'

And for any quote you want to put about Alonso being toxic, you can find another quote or story from peeps like Smedley saying that absolutely not the case.

Its so surprising to see hostility to one of the only drivers who has been giving 110% over the last few years trying to fight against the dominant package and destroying his teammate in the process.


Annnnnyways, Red Bull will start at the Red Back of the Grid at the Red Bull Ring!

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/06/red-bull-set-to-lock-out-back-row-of-the-grid-in-austria/
Click to expand...
As bad as Hamilton is his biggest scandal is what? Liegate and bringing Ice T into the McLaren garage. Dude isn't perfect, but he's improved a lot over the years.
 
T

Templar Wizard

Member
I was referencing Lauda not Hamilton.
and if you really want to get down to it, Alonso didn't blackmail his team and he wasn't implicated in crashgate.
Hamilton did lie.

Lets leave the partisanship? most people are obsessed with hearsay and rumour and not so much with the facts.
 
J

JadedWriter

Member
Templar Wizard said:
I was referencing Lauda not Hamilton.
and if you really want to get down to it, Alonso didn't blackmail his team and he wasn't implicated in crashgate.
Hamilton did lie.

Lets leave the partisanship? most people are obsessed with hearsay and rumour and not so much with the facts.
Click to expand...
To be honest none of these drivers are squeaky clean any how especially the current WDC's with the exception of Button and Raikkonen. Actually not even Button I just remembered there was a whole bunch of stuff going on with his contract from his Williams days?
Ark said:
Actually most people seem to be obsessed with justifying their hatred for various drivers ;D
Click to expand...
I don't even hate Alonso, he's just like the modern day equivalent of this guy:
dick-dastardly-cartoons-74908-300x184.png
 
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