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[Aiii]

I'd pick 2015 Ferrari engines over Renault, too.

With a decent chassis and good drivers, it should be fine. The reason Manor are so far behind is hardly all about the engine, given how they're driving with a slightly modified version of last years (already terrible) chassis.

 

[Zeknurn]

So Red Bull accepted the 2015 engines for Toro Rosso and are still negotiating for the main team? Seeing how they were beaten by TR few times this year, it wouldn't surprise me to give them the weaker package.

At the last race Horner said that since Toro Rosso operates with less resources than the main team they have an earlier deadline to when they need to start working on the power unit change.

 

[brotkasten]

At the last race Horner said that since Toro Rosso operates with less resources than the main team they have an earlier deadline to when they need to start working on the power unit change.

That would make sense in terms of price, too.

I mean, even if it's only the 2015 engine next year, it can't be worse than Renault.

 

[tomtom94]

You'd pick 2015 engines over Renault? Based on the level of development we've seen this year if you got a 2015 Ferrari engine you'd almost definitely be behind the 2016 competitors by the halfway point of the season.

 

[DrM]

Apparently Horner will be today guest in talkshow from Hangar 7 on Austrian (Red Bull funded) Servus.tv

If STR is getting Ferrari engines, that would mean that Ferrari has 4 teams under their belt already and adding fifth would be quite a logistic feat, plus they would need a grant from FIA

 

[brotkasten]

You'd pick 2015 engines over Renault? Based on the level of development we've seen this year if you got a 2015 Ferrari engine you'd almost definitely be behind the 2016 competitors by the halfway point of the season.

At least you get to finish most races.

 

[Aiii]

You'd pick 2015 engines over Renault? Based on the level of development we've seen this year if you got a 2015 Ferrari engine you'd almost definitely be behind the 2016 competitors by the halfway point of the season.

Renault's break down all the time and have had 0 development in speed all year this year.

There's no reason to assume the Renault will be quicker than this years Ferrari and even less reason to assume they'll be reliable next year.

So yeah, I'd pick them over Renault.

 

[Jezbollah]

The 2015 Ferrari engine isnt a slouch and is the only motor to have won races vs works Mercedes. I think it's a pretty good option but questions about development would factor into play..

 

[tomtom94]

Renault's break down all the time and have had 0 development in speed all year this year.

There's no reason to assume the Renault will be quicker than this years Ferrari and even less reason to assume they'll be reliable next year.

So yeah, I'd pick them over Renault.

They've still got development tokens though. 2015 Ferrari engine you would be locked in.

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

Renault engines aren't even an option, they're only willing to supply their factory team (if they follow through with their letter of intent)

 

[frontieruk]

Renault engines aren't even an option, they're only willing to supply their factory team (if they follow through with their letter of intent)

I actually see this as Renault saying FU to Redbull, why develop your engine when all your partner does is moan? I wonder if Renault made a BS development plan to show RB just to force this situation of RB pulling the plug on the contract.

 

[Aiii]

I actually see this as Renault saying FU to Redbull, why develop your engine when all your partner does is moan? I wonder if Renault made a BS development plan to show RB just to force this situation of RB pulling the plug on the contract.

That seems totally worth ruining your reputation as a car producer for, yeah. Great PR, that will show those Red Bull bastards!

 

[frontieruk]

That seems totally worth ruining your reputation as a car producer for, yeah. Great PR, that will show those Red Bull bastards!

Hey Redbull have already pulled them through the mud openly why spend money trying to fix a broken relationship when that money could be spent on your own team with a heavily revised engine? Watch those tokens get spent on the last race...

 

[Aiii]

They will spend their tokes, because of course they will. But not because of RB, but because it is the last season to do so.

But we have seen from Honda that a few tokens won't suddenly turn your engine info a Mercedes.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

Here's a question.

What if Renault spins off their engine division under a new legal entity. Would they be considered a new entrant?

 

[DrM]

It will be interesting how will Mercedes cope with supersoft tyre in Russia. Probably better than in Singapore - better tarmac + lower temp

 

[Mohonky]

God I hope Renault troll RB so fucking hard. i'm sure they have soecifically hoarded their tokens when RB started dragging them through the mud earlier in the year; if Renault come out next year with a reliable and powerful engine, RB are going to look like complete tools for not being patient and riding it out.

Its a very real possiblity.

 

[itsgreen]

God I hope Renault troll RB so fucking hard. i'm sure they have soecifically hoarded their tokens when RB started dragging them through the mud earlier in the year; if Renault come out next year with a reliable and powerful engine, RB are going to look like complete tools for not being patient and riding it out.

Its a very real possiblity.

They have been trolling RB pretty hard for almost 1.5 years now...

 

[Aiii]

God I hope Renault troll RB so fucking hard. i'm sure they have soecifically hoarded their tokens when RB started dragging them through the mud earlier in the year; if Renault come out next year with a reliable and powerful engine, RB are going to look like complete tools for not being patient and riding it out.

Its a very real possiblity.

Are you guys drinking the Arai Kool-Aid?

 

[Fisico]

God I hope Renault troll RB so fucking hard. i'm sure they have soecifically hoarded their tokens when RB started dragging them through the mud earlier in the year; if Renault come out next year with a reliable and powerful engine, RB are going to look like complete tools for not being patient and riding it out.

Its a very real possiblity.

Remember last year when everyone believed the Ferrari was going to be a total turd and how they should ask for forgiveness to Sebastian Vettel ?
I do.

 

[stryke]

I'm pretty sure the story is they've already got improved engines but Redbull don't want them because it'll mean grid penalties again.

 

[Zeknurn]

Well you got your wish

TJ13 has been informed, since Singapore, Red Bull are now seriously considering not dissolving their 2016 engine power supply agreement with Renault.

Also Bernie is talking about three car teams again and Wolff wants it to happen.

 

[tomtom94]

Just seen a story saying that Toro Rosso have agreed a deal for a 2015 Ferrari power unit, but I can't remember how reliable F1Today are supposed to be.

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

I thought the rules said only one PU could be homologated for next season, so no 2015 deal can be agreed?

This pick and mix supply line cannot be allowed, it's absurd, every customer should receive 1:1 PU and software from the supplier. If they mix engines then V8s should be allowed back and equalised.

 

[Mohonky]

Well you got your wish

TJ13 has been informed, since Singapore, Red Bull are now seriously considering not dissolving their 2016 engine power supply agreement with Renault.

Also Bernie is talking about three car teams again and Wolff wants it to happen.

Oh god what a sour year that could turn out to be lol.

Still, theres really no knowing what Renault have at the moment. They would have undoubtedly been developing the engine, otherwise they'd have had no interest in Lotus. So they unquestionably have something to go for 2016 and seeing as they have spent bugger all tokens since mid this year, there is no telling how good or bad it is outside of their test labs.

Could turn out to be interesting. Either way, doesnt sound like RB will get their top rung Ferrari engine they want.

I thought the rules said only one PU could be homologated for next season, so no 2015 deal can be agreed?

This pick and mix supply line cannot be allowed, it's absurd, every customer should receive 1:1 PU and software from the supplier. If they mix engines then V8s should be allowed back and equalised.

You cant have 1:1 in software or even hardware. Merc build their engine on the combustion qualities of their fuel and engline libricant supplier, Petronas, Ferrari does the same with Shell etc. other squads are committed to other suppliers, throwing the other squads an engine exactly the same would be less efficient as the engines they use are fully optimised for their own fuels and lubricants. their will never be complete parity unless all teams use the same supplier for fuel and lubrication as was designed by the manufacturer.

 

[hadareud]

I also read yesterday that they (RB) are trying to negotiate with Mercedes again.

Horner said something about how Toto had no say in it and that those decisions would be made at a higher level.

They're making themselves look like the cunts that they are. I'm sure that someone will give them a decent engine for next year in the end, but it's nice to see them sweat and squirm a bit.

 

[jdw_b]

I also read yesterday that they (RB) are trying to negotiate with Mercedes again.

Horner said something about how Toto had no say in it and that those decisions would be made at a higher level.

They're making themselves look like the cunts that they are. I'm sure that someone will give them a decent engine for next year in the end, but it's nice to see them sweat and squirm a bit.

No chance with Mercedes, the board has already rejected the idea. The quote from Horner is likely old, but cobbled into a new article to make it seem relevant.

I would be extremely surprised if Mercedes would risk their current dominance to bring in an extra few pennies from an engine supply deal...and also risk the potential PR nightmare of dealing with Red Bull

I'm a bit conflicted about the whole thing. I really dislike some of the people in the team sometimes, but they do and have invested pretty significantly in F1, like bringing back Austria. And I think it'd be unfair of Ferrari to supply them 2015 engines, it should be the current years spec to all customers

 

[acm2000]

all suppliers should offer current year PUs ONLY, FIA need to step in and sort this shit out, oh wait Bernie doesnt care about the sport only the cash dollars

 

[hadareud]

No chance with Mercedes, the board has already rejected the idea. The quote from Horner is likely old, but cobbled into a new article to make it seem relevant.

I would be extremely surprised if Mercedes would risk their current dominance to bring in an extra few pennies from an engine supply deal...and also risk the potential PR nightmare of dealing with Red Bull

I'm a bit conflicted about the whole thing. I really dislike some of the people in the team sometimes, but they do and have invested pretty significantly in F1, like bringing back Austria. And I think it'd be unfair of Ferrari to supply them 2015 engines, it should be the current years spec to all customers

No, it's new quotes.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns32100.html

 

[nature boy]

FYI, Autosport plus is free for a week. Some good content in there if you're into the politics of F1.

I don't think Renault are too keen to supply Red Bull with their power unit, it's just posturing and weakening Red Bull's car for next year, if they make it.

 

[Massa]

all suppliers should offer current year PUs ONLY, FIA need to step in and sort this shit out, oh wait Bernie doesnt care about the sport only the cash dollars

I thought that was the rule already, and Manor was granted an exception because they couldn't afford to update their car to house a new engine.

 

[Aiii]

Every piece of "news" are just hear-say and rumors anyways.

None of this is confirmed, none of it has to be true. "board rejections" and such have no basis in reality. It certainly could have happened, but it just as well might not have happened. Toro Rosso could have agreed to 2015 Ferrari engines, but it's just as possible they have not.

It's all rumors and most of it is baseless clickbait rumors on websites from "exclusive sources within the team" and chances that the guy mopping the floor of the hospitality unit has real inside information on Horner's behind-closed-doors meetings is highly unlikely. More likely is that most of the "news" we get to hear and read about is hear-say between employees of the various companies involved.

So all I'm trying to say is, this is F1 and nothing is definite until a press release is out.

 

[jdw_b]

Every piece of "news" are just hear-say and rumors anyways.

None of this is confirmed, none of it has to be true. "board rejections" and such have no basis in reality. It certainly could have happened, but it just as well might not have happened. Toro Rosso could have agreed to 2015 Ferrari engines, but it's just as possible they have not.

It's all rumors and most of it is baseless clickbait rumors on websites from "exclusive sources within the team" and chances that the guy mopping the floor of the hospitality unit has real inside information on Horner's behind-closed-doors meetings is highly unlikely. More likely is that most of the "news" we get to hear and read about is hear-say between employees of the various companies involved.

So all I'm trying to say is, this is F1 and nothing is definite until a press release is out.

Usually I'd agree with you, but this isn't really hearsay...

"We decided with our board that we as an engine supplier - and as a team - have worked hard and long to achieve the success we have today, after taking the decision to enter the sport again as a works team in 2010," Toto Wolff told the official Formula 1 website.

"Therefore we decided two weeks ago against exploring an engine supply to Red Bull. We wish to continue with our model to support independent, privateer racing teams - and to respect the relationships we already have in place with our customers - alongside our primary focus on the Mercedes works team."

I just think Horner is trying to up the pressure on the decision makers behind the engine deal so he can get on with next years car.

Like I said, i'd be extremely surprised if Mercedes changed their minds and risked it...but you never know

 

[prettyvacant77]

This is getting hilarious, Red Bull couldn't have screwed themselves any harder.

Just to top it off, I would laugh my ass off if they tried to patch things up with Renault for 2016 only to be told they're no longer a works team and they only get 2015 engines

 

[DrM]

Williams finally figures out that their pitstops suck (autosport)

Stevens wants to keep his Manor seat for 2016, because car will be more competitive in 2016 (autosport) I did not know that new Manor HQ is only 11 miles away from Mercedes HQ in Brackley

 

[nature boy]

Looks like new ownership for F1.

 

[Zeknurn]

Looks like new ownership for F1.

What if it's Red Bull.

 

[nature boy]

What if it's Red Bull.

Alone? 0%.

Probably a media empire - Liberty Media or Sky. Red Bull might be involved with a percentage, but that would mean the end of the two teams.

 

[Tempy]

I hope you all like your new Kazakh/Russian/Oil Sheik F1 caretakers.

 

[Zeknurn]

The 84-year-old has not identified the potential buyers, but said he had been asked to remain as commercial chief.

Nothing changes.

 

[JadedWriter]

Nothing changes.

He's never letting his precious go.

 

[Aiii]

Usually I'd agree with you, but this isn't really hearsay...



I just think Horner is trying to up the pressure on the decision makers behind the engine deal so he can get on with next years car.

Like I said, i'd be extremely surprised if Mercedes changed their minds and risked it...but you never know

I stand corrected. Maybe Bernie's tactics worked.

 

[Mobius 1]

All investments that were not deemed absolutely necessary would be abandoned

If there was any question about the end of Audi's entry into F1.

 

[DrM]

Reports are coming from Sochi that Lotus team is once more locked out of the paddock - looks like they owe money for 2014...

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

Reports are coming from Sochi that Lotus team is once more locked out of the paddock - looks like they owe money for 2014...

Owed money to whom?

Bernie owns the Paddock, why would they invite them if they didn't want to grant them access


I don't understand

EDIT: and did Redbull officially terminated their supply contract with Renault? Meaning everything is signed and all?

 

[Aiii]

Owed money to whom?

Bernie owns the Paddock, why would they invite them if they didn't want to grant them access


I don't understand

EDIT: and did Redbull officially terminated their supply contract with Renault? Meaning everything is signed and all?

The hospitality units are part of the track and are rented by the teams, they never paid their rent, so they're not allowed to rent one now.

And no, far as anyone knows, Red Bull and Renault have a contract through 2016. Renault has stated they would honor the ongoing contract, Red Bull have stated they will end their contract at the end of the season. So it seems to be some kind of option that allows Red Bull to prematurely end the contract, but not Renault.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

The hospitality units are part of the track and are rented by the teams, they never paid their rent, so they're not allowed to rent one now.

And no, far as anyone knows, Red Bull and Renault have a contract through 2016. Renault has stated they would honor the ongoing contract, Red Bull have stated they will end their contract at the end of the season. So it seems to be some kind of option that allows Red Bull to prematurely end the contract, but not Renault.

I see.

thanks

Poor Lotus. I like that team

 

[jdw_b]

Reports are coming from Sochi that Lotus team is once more locked out of the paddock - looks like they owe money for 2014...

Embarrassing lol

for the sport that is

 

[Psychotext]

It's pretty disgusting though. They've ignored those bills because they assumed they could get away with it. No thought for the companies providing the service at all.

 

[Aiii]

It's pretty disgusting though. They've ignored those bills because they assumed they could get away with it. No thought for the companies providing the service at all.

It's entirely more likely they've ignored those bills because paying their employees and getting their cars on track was more important for the continued existence of the team.

I very much doubt they enjoy not paying their bills just to see if they could get away with it.