I'm not against that. I'm very much against the way they are going about it. This article does a good job summing up I think.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Formula 1 2015 Season |OT| Formula E Feeder Series
- Thread starter Ark
- Start date
I'm not against that. I'm very much against the way they are going about it. This article does a good job summing up I think.
Probably the plan all along.
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/todt-wants-12m-engines-to-drop-independent-supplier-plan/
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/todt-wants-12m-engines-to-drop-independent-supplier-plan/
nature boy
Member
Aussies haven't done that badly in US motorsport recently. Will Power winning Indycar last year, Ambrose did okay in NASCAR too, I think.
He'd be better off going to WEC though. I think everyone would be, to be honest.
I liked the independent supplier idea more, but that's still a good thing if they can agree on it.
Kölsch Bloot
Member
Like I mentioned before:
I feel like it was the plan all along to have FIA worry about four cars leaving the grid and in an attempt to avoid this happening launch a new engine formula for 2016 (rather 2017 now). So Red Bull is now facing three options: either get a Merc or Ferrari engine, get an unbranded Renault and have Illien rework it or take a gap year and help development on an all new Biturbo w/o hybrid. Not to mention they'd found the development of a Biturbo anyway and have Toro Rosso test it in 2017 in case they really got a Merc/Ferrari for 2016 and beyond.
To me the plan to *finally* run the upgraded Renault PU in Brazil certainly points to the "unbranded" Renault option.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
So there is an engine, just not a competitive one. With the changes for 2017 they will most likely attend next season in a barebones car to get their 100 million for past results and come back big time in 2017. Knowing Red Bull they will even turn being last on the grid into a marketing success, they're good at that.
Speaking of TR, looking at the comments, it sounds like they won't use this engine since they won't have enough available, so they might still have to take the 2015 Ferrari deal.
brotkasten
Member
Awesome news!
The team owners and principals can be cunts and the bitching and whining is super annoying, but I'm glad not to lose Toro Rosso or any of the four Wonderboys that are driving for them. Now if only they'd do something about the awful, awful livery. For that alone I hope they won't brand the engine as Infinity. The purple is hideous.
The team owners and principals can be cunts and the bitching and whining is super annoying, but I'm glad not to lose Toro Rosso or any of the four Wonderboys that are driving for them. Now if only they'd do something about the awful, awful livery. For that alone I hope they won't brand the engine as Infinity. The purple is hideous.
Yeah, from that wording that seems to be the case. Probably not the worst thing, the Ferrari should be quick enough for TR needs and it probably allows their engineering staff to focus on developing the engine rather than making enough of them to supply both teams. I guess TR switches back to the new Renault/RB engines for 2017 once they're settled in.
I just hope this doesn't kill Bernie's movement to get an independent power unit manufacturer into the sport, because Red Bull finding an solution doesn't do anything about the underlying problems with the current formula.
This has probably been the plan all along and they've been working on it in anticipation of Renault inevitably giving up the joint IP control.
This has probably been the plan all along and they've been working on it in anticipation of Renault inevitably giving up the joint IP control.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
From the wording it seems like this was their preferred plan all along and the problems came from not being able to find an agreement over the ownership rights of a co-developed engine, which lead to Red Bull searching other suppliers. I don't think the VW plans are off the table either, VW could need a successful F1 team for marketing reasons. What they don't need is DTM cause they sell cars here no matter what.
brotkasten
Member
The purple got much better this year, now that it has clear lines and doesn't look like it was randomly slapped on the side of the car, to make the infinity logo stand out more.
Still, the Red Bull always looks like a chav in a millionaires club. I'm not saying "No fun allowed!", but you can class that shit up easily. Just look at the Red Bull Audi mockup.
Kölsch Bloot
Member
LOL, that's just what I assumed for the past weeks.
Yeah, the team that will work on these engines in "Building 9" are led by Illien and it's the same place RB and Renault have worked together on the upgraded Renault engine they just introduced. So they're probably already well underway with these plans.
From what I can gather it was mostly management quarreling over financials and branding that caused the rift and made them try to move away from Renault instead of just doing this from the start. All the public bashing nd flirting with other manufacturers almost seems to have been negotiation tactics as this seems very much like an endgame.
Yup. Red Bull are very good at getting what they want and they're not afraid to act like wankers to get it.
brotkasten
Member
Seems like it. The negotiations with Mercedes went nowhere, because Dietrich never returned the calls, for example. I'm just glad the drama is over now.
By mounting the pistons the right way up.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
Red Bull will get 32 development tokens and an unlimited budget?
nature boy
Member
The source is theJudge13? Really?
Give me a break.
Give me a break.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
BBC's Clarkson mentioned something about them running rebadged engines in Mexico.
New manufacturer Infiniti to get 32 tokens and Renault get 32 tokens next season.. they've been flinging shit at each to engineer this joint ip 64 token pact.
64 tokens is enough for a completely new PU?
New manufacturer Infiniti to get 32 tokens and Renault get 32 tokens next season.. they've been flinging shit at each to engineer this joint ip 64 token pact.
64 tokens is enough for a completely new PU?
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
They don't get 32 tokens. And major parts of the PU are frozen and can't be changed. Your conspiracy theory is flawed.
Jezbollah
Member
Another really good thing about this news is that this ensures that the takeover of Lotus can now be done quickly now that it's established that Red Bull are not being sold off.
Its an interesting deal Renault have done here - then again it wouldnt be the first time they've done engine re-branding due to one circumstance or another (see: Mechachrome)
Its an interesting deal Renault have done here - then again it wouldnt be the first time they've done engine re-branding due to one circumstance or another (see: Mechachrome)
Kölsch Bloot
Member
Well, maybe I'm biased here, as RBR is my favourite team, but for me this is a livery at its best. Best in F1 ATM.
Kölsch Bloot
Member
Let's make a ranking, shall we?
1. Red Bull
2. Toro Rosso
3. Sauber
4. Lotus
5. Force India
6. McLaren
7. Ferrari
8. Williams
9. Marussia
10. Mercedes
Needs some red and yellow though
LicenceToK1ll
Member
Mercedes is the worst yeah. Boring old man silver colour with fugly Petronas green mixed in. The Sauber is pretty hideous as well blue and yellow dont combine very well,
JadedWriter
Member
You say you don't mind it but you'll change your tune when it gives you a migraine by the third race.STR's livery is cooler than RB's, but at least they're both using some colors so that alone gets an upvote from me.
That said, I'm gonna say that I wouldn't mind RB going black-and-white if they switch to their testing livery:
<3
Hmm...
I'm not a huge fan of any of them, but let's do this:
1 - Sauber (I like how dumb, plain and colorful it is)
2 - Williams (Martini liveries makes everything better)
3 - Red Bull (Cool, although that yellow at the nose is kind of weird this year)
4 - Force India (Meh, but not bad)
5 - Toro Rosso (Meh, but not bad)
6 - Lotus (Meh)
7 - Ferrari (Meh, but at least it's colorful)
8 - McLaren (Meh)
9 - Manor (kind of colorful, but in an ugly way)
10 - Mercedes (I have no words to describe how obnoxious I think it is)
1 - Toro Rosso: Colors, patterns and an amazing designed giant red bull on the side that makes the car looks fierce, I wish more teams would do things like this.
2 - Red Bull: Good use of colors and patterns, very nice car to look at.
3 - Lotus: The JPS livery is great, I'm gonna mniss it!
4 - McLaren: It's fine, but nowhere near as good as the late 90s West-design was.
5 - Force India: Pretty good design, but the black isn't as nice as the FI design in white they had before.
6 - Ferrari: Again a pretty nothing design, Ferrari red is nice, but the black patches are not very appealing and again, at least do a pattern or something to spice it up.
7 - Mercedes: The silver is good, the mint-green from Petronas, ugh.
8 - Williams: Williams had some amazing liveries in the past, but this all-white with a bit of Martini branding is just uninspired nothing.
9 - Manor: I could forgive them not having a decent livery at the start of the season, but they're still running the same dull red and white. At least do a nice pattern or something.
10 - Sauber: Ugly as sin. Plus it looks like it was painted with the cheapest paint ever, to boot.
Bonus, the single best F1 Livery ever used:
1998 Jordan GP.
2 - Red Bull: Good use of colors and patterns, very nice car to look at.
3 - Lotus: The JPS livery is great, I'm gonna mniss it!
4 - McLaren: It's fine, but nowhere near as good as the late 90s West-design was.
5 - Force India: Pretty good design, but the black isn't as nice as the FI design in white they had before.
6 - Ferrari: Again a pretty nothing design, Ferrari red is nice, but the black patches are not very appealing and again, at least do a pattern or something to spice it up.
7 - Mercedes: The silver is good, the mint-green from Petronas, ugh.
8 - Williams: Williams had some amazing liveries in the past, but this all-white with a bit of Martini branding is just uninspired nothing.
9 - Manor: I could forgive them not having a decent livery at the start of the season, but they're still running the same dull red and white. At least do a nice pattern or something.
10 - Sauber: Ugly as sin. Plus it looks like it was painted with the cheapest paint ever, to boot.
Bonus, the single best F1 Livery ever used:
1998 Jordan GP.
brotkasten
Member
It's a matter of taste, obviously. I'm not saying the Red Bull livery is worse than Marussia, but that it's really busy and screaming like a child that wants your attention.
Mercedes currently has the same problem with the Petronas green on the sidepods that Red Bull had with the infinity purple. It just looks sort of unfinished to me and I'm not a fan of that green in combination with silver.
I'd also appreciate more colors on the grid and I hope that Force India comes out with a super awesome and distinctive dark green livery in 2016, when they're officially Aston Martin.
Ferrari doesn't really have much choice, I suppose. That red is just their color and simply iconic in combination with the brand, but I can see how people may find it boring. That said, going back to a more retro livery like this mock-up would be nice.
Get that Shell yellow on the rear wing and paint the rims black. No terrible and oversized Scuderia Ferrari logo on it either.
While looking for the Red Bull Audi mock-up I posted earlier, I found this Hass concept livery that I kinda like.
Mostly, because it's yellow and adds another distinctive color to the grid. Although I'm sure the actual livery won't be anywhere near, because it's nothing like the team colors (black, red and white).
Overall I'd say that Mercedes, McLaren and Marussia have the worst liveries on the grid. Toro Rosso is pretty okay, but they could improve it by getting rid of that tacky dark gold on the nose.
Mercedes currently has the same problem with the Petronas green on the sidepods that Red Bull had with the infinity purple. It just looks sort of unfinished to me and I'm not a fan of that green in combination with silver.
I'd also appreciate more colors on the grid and I hope that Force India comes out with a super awesome and distinctive dark green livery in 2016, when they're officially Aston Martin.
Ferrari doesn't really have much choice, I suppose. That red is just their color and simply iconic in combination with the brand, but I can see how people may find it boring. That said, going back to a more retro livery like this mock-up would be nice.
Get that Shell yellow on the rear wing and paint the rims black. No terrible and oversized Scuderia Ferrari logo on it either.
While looking for the Red Bull Audi mock-up I posted earlier, I found this Hass concept livery that I kinda like.
Mostly, because it's yellow and adds another distinctive color to the grid. Although I'm sure the actual livery won't be anywhere near, because it's nothing like the team colors (black, red and white).
Overall I'd say that Mercedes, McLaren and Marussia have the worst liveries on the grid. Toro Rosso is pretty okay, but they could improve it by getting rid of that tacky dark gold on the nose.
JadedWriter
Member
*Logs into facebook and sees a video of Hamilton playing with a Lepoard*
I'm surprised he didn't just take the thing back home with him and demand that it gets a paddock pass.
I'm surprised he didn't just take the thing back home with him and demand that it gets a paddock pass.
Bonus, the single best F1 Livery ever used:
1998 Jordan GP.
I still have a large die cast model of that car. Yellow liveries just look good.
JadedWriter
Member
I guess he didn't want to go from a GP2 engine in a GP2 chassis to a GP2 engine in an F1 chassis.
brotkasten
Member
Bonus, the single best F1 Livery ever used:
1998 Jordan GP.
Very nice. I used to love the Jordans.
I have a thing for this Alfa:
