brotkasten
Member
Sounds almost like Formula E!
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The Formula 1 2015 Season |OT| Formula E Feeder Series
- Thread starter Ark
- Start date
Sounds almost like Formula E!
All drivers complain. I don't really consider it whining unless it's repetitive. PEACE.
theignoramus
Member
Rosberg handed his ass to him in his Merc stint and I don't recall hearing him complain at all. There was plenty of old Schumacher style chopping, like with Rubens in Hungary and Lewis at Monza, but he wasn't whining over the radio in probably the most embarrassing stretch of his career, so I doubt he was a whiner at Ferrari during his championship years. I would have loved to have heard his comms during the Benneton years though.
massivekettle
Member
It was in the pre-race. Vettel drove very close to the side of Hamilton as Hamilton was practising his start out of the pitlane. Just an overly unnecessary (and atypical) move, but I think Lewis got over it pretty quickly. He was probably surprised to see Vettel.
Schumacher just took it into his own hands though, which is way worse
Fox Mulder
Member
It is a shame since Indy is pretty competitive.
The new aero kits look ugly as shit and are too fragile.
Maybe we should get a new thread title:
The Formula 1 2015 Season |OT| Stock Car Brasil Feeder Series
JadedWriter
Member
Or WEC Feeder Series.
Fox Mulder
Member
Just watched the race, fucking Renault.
Would have been neat to see the Ferraris racing each other.
Would have been neat to see the Ferraris racing each other.
Shit, there's actually more ex-F1 drivers there than BSC. I had no idea.
If I get bored this arvo, I might try and do a comparison of ex-F1 drivers in each series, see how it weighs up. I'd guess WEC first, then FE then BSC. There are probably others that have a few as well (doesn't DTM have one or two as well?).
That was RACING!
Two things:
MER still deeply troubled by tyre degradation problems.
- rear in trouble to get all the torque on the road
- front has only a very narrow working window temp wise
Especially the front is far from a solution. While the new front wing is a pretty good one, they do not really understand it yet setup wise. Either they don´t get the temp up, or when they get it up it overheats easily, even just from the slipstream of a car in front. That´s what ROS was getting at over the radio, less than 1.5secs behind the car in front and the temps go through the roof and the degradation out of control.
And while MER was lucky with the cooler temps in China, in Bahrein the FER will be closer.
We should talk about drivability.
While the MER PU is still a good amount stronger in raw horses than the rest, FER definitely has closed the gap somewhat, but more importantly got the drivability up.
MER lacks here, due to the tyre probs outlined above.
REN has the worst drivability right now, which is mostly a software problem at the moment. The car simply doesn´t translate the gas pedal usage into expected results. And they don´t know why.
As for HON, its simply too early to tell. They are still plagued by all the small issues adding up of a very new PU that didn´t have enough testing kilometers yet. Right now I´d estimate them to be basically 13 months behind in development compared to the other PU´s. But HON remains upbeat, they did expect that, and they think they can succeed under the current regs.
MER still deeply troubled by tyre degradation problems.
- rear in trouble to get all the torque on the road
- front has only a very narrow working window temp wise
Especially the front is far from a solution. While the new front wing is a pretty good one, they do not really understand it yet setup wise. Either they don´t get the temp up, or when they get it up it overheats easily, even just from the slipstream of a car in front. That´s what ROS was getting at over the radio, less than 1.5secs behind the car in front and the temps go through the roof and the degradation out of control.
And while MER was lucky with the cooler temps in China, in Bahrein the FER will be closer.
We should talk about drivability.
While the MER PU is still a good amount stronger in raw horses than the rest, FER definitely has closed the gap somewhat, but more importantly got the drivability up.
MER lacks here, due to the tyre probs outlined above.
REN has the worst drivability right now, which is mostly a software problem at the moment. The car simply doesn´t translate the gas pedal usage into expected results. And they don´t know why.
As for HON, its simply too early to tell. They are still plagued by all the small issues adding up of a very new PU that didn´t have enough testing kilometers yet. Right now I´d estimate them to be basically 13 months behind in development compared to the other PU´s. But HON remains upbeat, they did expect that, and they think they can succeed under the current regs.
Mastah
Member
It is a night race. If anything track temperature will be lower than in China.
I´m not comparing the full weekend, only the race time. And even being a night race the asphalt will have warmed up much more and retain that for quite a while.
It is just awkward to see how team went from the very gentle on their tyres back to tyre eater in one single winter break
Mastah
Member
Absolutely not true. Track temperature from the start of FP2 last year, the same hour race begins:
And here is temp from 2015 Chinese GP:
This years Chinese GP was unusually warm, with track temps at the start at 46.6°C, and 40.3°C at the checkered flag.
The longterm median for the Bahrein GP is ~35°C at the start and 30°C at the finish - however the weather frogs predict rising temperatures for the weekend, starting from Friday, and thus higher track temps as the median as well.
Of course it could be cooler, but right now the teams forecast says something different.
Mohonky
Member
So must got round to watching;
- not sure what Nico's problem is, Hamilton ran the race as expected. He had to conserve tyres, he did. The team told him to run 1:43.7's, he did. They wanted 1:43.3's, he did it. He ran as fast as he needed to run without killing his tyres. This wasn't a problem last year because they were usually so far in front, but now with Ferrari running faster it's become a problem. But even Vettel when asked to push said he had nothing left to get past Rosberg so he just had to try the undercut and hope he could get the new Mediums to work fast enough and bank the laps. Hamilton was being doing what any other driver would and should have done; stay in front, conserve and leave yourself that safety buffer that if you need to push hard, you can push hard. If ahamilton wanted to be a real cunt about it he would have ignored the team orders but he did exactly as they said. Rosberg said tell him to go faster, they did, Hamilton did as instructed.
Rosberg is essentially just breaking at this point. Hamilton has the race pace over him, he's on a roll, he's confident, he's calm and in control right now and its frustrating the shit out of Rosberg. Rosberg is just being Webber'd at this point; feels like he's a victim and he's mentally beat to the point he can't see a way out of it.
Anyway;
Mclaren finished - a decent job by them considering the first 2 races. I'm not confident their chasis is as great as they think but at least baby steps being made.
Ferrari - fast. If Raikkonen can get a decent quali in, Vettel and him may be fighting each other soon. It'll be interesting to see when and if Ferrari play the No1 vs No2 driver card and start issuing orders. Seems it will happen, Raikkonen is far more evenly matched with Vettel than he was Alonso.
Sauber - don't worry about having half the grid with contracts to drive their cars, their cars seem everywhere. Are they sure they only have 2 cars out there? Reckon Ricciardo saw 20 of them.
Redbull - your car is shit. The engine might be shit too, but the lets not pretend the engine is the be all and end all of their problems.
Torro Rosso - Sainz is doing well, but how they manage to find room to fit Verstappen in with those ginormous balls I don't know. Dude needs a 'Zero Fucks Given' sponsor.
Lotus - great drive from Grosjean, car seems to be getting better and finishing where they think it can. Maldonaldo had what, 3 accidents today? Granted Button cause the last one, but honestly I can't recall ever seeing a driver off or facing the wrong way round so often.
Manor - they raced didn't they? Didn't see or hear just shit about them, think I caught a shot of them in the background once, I believe they even finished with both cars?
Williams - need a little more speed to challenge Ferrari. Am happy to see Massa giving Bottas a run for his money, that dude copped so much shit at Ferrari from 09 onward but the guy is my favourite underachiever. Barrichello 2.0
- not sure what Nico's problem is, Hamilton ran the race as expected. He had to conserve tyres, he did. The team told him to run 1:43.7's, he did. They wanted 1:43.3's, he did it. He ran as fast as he needed to run without killing his tyres. This wasn't a problem last year because they were usually so far in front, but now with Ferrari running faster it's become a problem. But even Vettel when asked to push said he had nothing left to get past Rosberg so he just had to try the undercut and hope he could get the new Mediums to work fast enough and bank the laps. Hamilton was being doing what any other driver would and should have done; stay in front, conserve and leave yourself that safety buffer that if you need to push hard, you can push hard. If ahamilton wanted to be a real cunt about it he would have ignored the team orders but he did exactly as they said. Rosberg said tell him to go faster, they did, Hamilton did as instructed.
Rosberg is essentially just breaking at this point. Hamilton has the race pace over him, he's on a roll, he's confident, he's calm and in control right now and its frustrating the shit out of Rosberg. Rosberg is just being Webber'd at this point; feels like he's a victim and he's mentally beat to the point he can't see a way out of it.
Anyway;
Mclaren finished - a decent job by them considering the first 2 races. I'm not confident their chasis is as great as they think but at least baby steps being made.
Ferrari - fast. If Raikkonen can get a decent quali in, Vettel and him may be fighting each other soon. It'll be interesting to see when and if Ferrari play the No1 vs No2 driver card and start issuing orders. Seems it will happen, Raikkonen is far more evenly matched with Vettel than he was Alonso.
Sauber - don't worry about having half the grid with contracts to drive their cars, their cars seem everywhere. Are they sure they only have 2 cars out there? Reckon Ricciardo saw 20 of them.
Redbull - your car is shit. The engine might be shit too, but the lets not pretend the engine is the be all and end all of their problems.
Torro Rosso - Sainz is doing well, but how they manage to find room to fit Verstappen in with those ginormous balls I don't know. Dude needs a 'Zero Fucks Given' sponsor.
Lotus - great drive from Grosjean, car seems to be getting better and finishing where they think it can. Maldonaldo had what, 3 accidents today? Granted Button cause the last one, but honestly I can't recall ever seeing a driver off or facing the wrong way round so often.
Manor - they raced didn't they? Didn't see or hear just shit about them, think I caught a shot of them in the background once, I believe they even finished with both cars?
Williams - need a little more speed to challenge Ferrari. Am happy to see Massa giving Bottas a run for his money, that dude copped so much shit at Ferrari from 09 onward but the guy is my favourite underachiever. Barrichello 2.0
massivekettle
Member
Track temperature in Bahrain should be cooler than in China, actually.
As for the rear, I agree with your assessment (even Williams alluded to it) but I think Mercedes can change their suspension geometry relatively easily (thanks to their carbon fiber gearbox casing) and this could help fix the problem (along with drivability upgrades to their PU). The mix of both (drivability issue and rear) is increasing the wear on the rears for the Mercedes which should definitely hurt them on a rear-limited track like Bahrain (like Malaysia) - so expected that Ferrari will be closer there.
I suspect they may have learned a lot about the wing over the weekend.
Are you aware of any upgrades on the PU front at Mercedes? Also, have they bolted all the tokens they have used thus far (I would assume not)?
Also, has Mercedes run with a de-tuned engine past few races? It does not appear that they are any more stronger than Ferrari on the raw power front.
Quite possible. I think that Mercedes will go with damage limitation next weekend in Bahrain and then started with new parts from Barcelona onwards
JadedWriter
Member
I'd love to see this spread sheet I think even at one point Brundell and Prost were racing in LeMans.
Their delay at introducing new parts is one of the indicators for that. I think that they are now very hard at work in the factory to bridge those issues at Barcelona. Maybe they will ship a part or two to Bahrain to use it at least on free practice to get some real life data...
Myoclonic Jerk
Member
Bahrain is having one of their worst samdstorms in recent history as I'm typing this.
Just googled this. Looks rough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_TfJ_fd4sA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_TfJ_fd4sA
massivekettle
Member
Interestingly, Hughes is saying in his column that the higher temperatures on Sunday pretty much gave Mercedes the race, as the soft tyre operated better on the Mercedes than on the Ferrari given higher track temperature; reason for that is the core temperature of the tyre is closer to the tread on the Mercedes as it works the tyre harder than the Ferrari. Therefore, had temperature been closer to that of Friday/Saturday morning, then Ferrari would have been more competitive.
LINK:
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/reports/2015-chinese-gp-report/
massivekettle
Member
Answers in the text.
That´s what I think will happen.
Very helpful. You've good insight it means.
I am just wondering what is the scope for development on the Merc PU aside from the remaining tokens. Is it the case that most engine manufacturers are gradually bolting on the tokens they have used (as they introduce new engines)?
Mercedes will definitely want to improve their PU (as it doesn't seem they've done anything at all really) eventually as Ferrari and Honda are rumoured to bring huge developments for Spain.
Merc's problems are overstated. Ferrari won one race by less than the pit lane delta despite doing one less stop. The tire deg is pointed out, but not the fact that Merc pitted super early, and rolled the dice on the tires lasting long on the hottest piece of pavement they'll run on all year.
The other two races saw no such wonky pit strategy, and Merc dominated. I don't think Bahrain is anywhere near the outlier Sepang is. Merc has too much of a pace advantage, and are too good on their tires for Ferrari to have seriously entered this discussion at this level. It's like Matchete is pulling for Ferrari this year, but even he had to calm Hobbs down for saying Ferrari are right there. You don't drop a pitstop back in green running when you're right there.
Whenever the Mercedes turns up the wick, it disappears down the road. We saw the team running it's first stint to a conservative delta, in order to conserve tires. Once they realized the deg was not anomalous, they gashed the Ferraris.
Given the considerable pace advantage Merc enjoys right now, I think it's time to ask if the blow front axle is really the best approach aerodynamically. Is Merc enjoying a downforce advantage because they can harvest more of the air passing through the front suspension? PEACE.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
So McLaren only ran with juiced up engine maps on Friday and then back to conservative settings for the rest of the weekend? I guess that explains why they were no where near Force India in the race after the long runs suggested otherwise, King Eric says they will use these aggressive maps in Bahrain, new car every race with new mechanical and aero pieces added, big step planned for Barcelona.
ERS running at 50% according to Hughes, so if the MGU-H is knackered and melts seals / wiring as it has been suggested, have Honda got enough tokens to redesign this part?
Twatter says McLaren will change livery at Barca.
Silly Jense
lol, great photo. the on track fireworks can't be far off...
Did Nico get his trophy or did he bin it?
ERS running at 50% according to Hughes, so if the MGU-H is knackered and melts seals / wiring as it has been suggested, have Honda got enough tokens to redesign this part?
Twatter says McLaren will change livery at Barca.
Silly Jense
lol, great photo. the on track fireworks can't be far off...
Did Nico get his trophy or did he bin it?
Rosberg needs to get his shit together, and quickly. If history is anything to go by then Ferrari, McLaren, and maybe even Williams/RBR will be right on the pace of the Mercedes by the final third of the season, which will obviously makes things more difficult for his championship.
Or of course this could just be a repeat of 2013, but with Mercedes and not RBR.
Or of course this could just be a repeat of 2013, but with Mercedes and not RBR.
JadedWriter
Member
Fox Mulder
Member
Do engine upgrades count as a new engine?
Like will redbull get grid penalties for upgrading their shit engine since they've already blown through a few.
Like will redbull get grid penalties for upgrading their shit engine since they've already blown through a few.
Mohonky
Member
When they both had a car in working order and had a normal weekend meaning no fuck ups in qualifying etc. I think Rosberg had Hamilton beat at 2 tracks, Monaco and Brazil races.
Which kind of makes sense for Monaco, unless you are way faster you can't really overtake anyone.
Brazil I think Rosberg just drove better from memory.
Quali problems;
Austria - dropped it and spun oddly
Hungary - car caught fire
Germany - brake disc exploded
DNF;
Canada - overheated brakes after power unit failure
Australia - power unit failure
Belgium - puncture on start of first lap
Second to Rosberg;
Monaco
Brazil
So if you take out DNF's or events where Hamilton had problems in qualifing, Hamilton finished every clean weekend in 1st bar two, which he finished second.
Rosberg
DNF;
Britain - power unit failure
Singapore - electrical issue
In race issues but still finished;
Canada - caught brake issue as Hamilton had to retire, nursed car home in second.
Abu Dhabi - power unit failure, finished one lap down
Otherwise finished 1st or 2nd in every race bar Hungary, can't recall what happen, shit strategy I think, Hamilton didn't let him past which he was pissy about. Finished 4th.
I think Ferrari will be very happy with the pace compared to Mercedes. This has been an exceptionally strong track for Mercedes, going back till when Schumacher drove for them so to see them one two, well it wasn't a surprise but I think Ferrari will be happy vettel was never too far back.
I'll buy into this bet too. How are we going to define 'caught up' with Mercedes? A race win? A race win on pace rather than by circumstance? A pole & competitive race against Mercedes even if they don't win?
Roll on Sinagapore ;D
While that it is true, Rosberg made a habit of capitalising on any hiccups Hamilton had last year, which admittedly is a lot easier when you only have one competitor. Ultimately though, as Mohonky pointed out, Hamilton has the measure of Rosberg.
JadedWriter
Member
If Hamilton didn't screw up his second in lap in Brazil then Rosberg wouldn't have won a single race after the Spa incident and he'd have one hell of a streak for finishing behind Hamilton currently. I think in Australia during the podium interview there was a caption under Rosberg that said "finished behind Hamilton in 7 of the last 8 races" or something like that. Ouch.
Classic
JadedWriter
Member
Nico was so mad that he didn't even bother to tie his shoes. Why is he still in his race suit?
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
Trolololo.
If he wanted to get by he could've tried...
Lmao.
I had went off Lewis as I was sick of his Drama Queen bullshit but I'm starting to like this Lewis.
Get gud Rosberg.
Was anyone else in absolute stitches at the Stewards trying to get Max's car off the track? Must've crashed it more times than Maldonaldo so far this season...
Not F1, but this is absolutely mad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QRivyu92fo
Where the front landed
Where the front landed
Jesus. Was he okay?
Speedway is insanely dangerous, when driver get caught under the bike and I think that at least one driver died last season
Going to have to agree with you here. The Mercedes is still, by far, the fastest package out there no matter the conditions