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[Huw_Dawson]

Yeah, the SP3 will flex the screen if you go in with the pen too hard...

TBH there has seriously never been a better time to get out of the Wacom ecosystem. As I said above, the Monoprice MP 22/Parblo Coast22 is fantastic and far cheaper than a 22HD. You can get a SP3 with an i5 and a pen for less than five hundred pounds. Why pay more for Wacom? It's not as if the Wacom stylii are that much better - in some ways they are worse, they blow out earlier making inking with most pressure sensitive brushes very hard.

 

[eyeball_kid]

The Duet pro lets you this, but's 20 dollars a year and the iPad has to be wired to the mac

http://www.duetdisplay.com/pro/

Thanks, yeah I know of the Duet, but I'd like a native, system-level support for mirroring.

 

[Shogmaster]

Hold on to patents and sue the fuck out of everyone else.

Standard business 101.

Wacom's patents ran out years ago.

Wacom decided decades ago to follow Apple's model of high margins for their products because they knew they had captive audience. But unlike Apple (or rather, like Apple after Job's passing) they haven't innovated except for doubling pressure levels in software every few years.

Even with their bread and butter of digitizer boards, they stuck to EMR like it would never be superseded. But then N-Trig came along and innovated on the digitizer board by using the capacitive touch board to do double duty for touch and the pen, thus making the pen a cheaper prospect to include in computers than with Wacom's EMR.

Wacom and users like myself scoffed at the 1st gen N-Trig's terrible performance, but little did we know that Wacom would sit still while letting everyone catch up. Now Wacom's being confronted and challenged in all of their product line, which they still demand top price for. They have cornered themselves. They have played themselves. And many Wacom users are cheering the situation. Lesson: Don't take your user base for granted and don't rip them off just because you can.

 

[BarringGaffner]

fyi- No production studio is going to replace their Wacom tablets with a Surface Pro or Ipad pro. I'm sure the tablet itself is fine, but production companies require high end monitors like Eizo to work with.

So those are just for hobbyists, independent artists.

As long as that is the case Wacom has a market.

 

[dude]

The worst thing about Wacom besides the price is the drivers. I swear it craps out on me like at least three times a week.

It's about time Wacom got some whooping and stepped up their game. If MS release the screen of the Studio as a standalone Cintiq competitor, my god.

 

[hirokazu]

I have the iPad Air 2 and will probably wait until that becomes obsolete in another 3+ years before I get a new one. I really want an iPad Pro with Pencil though.

Surface Pro and now Surface Studio look like pretty great products, but I don't want to return to using Windows as my primary OS. I think Apple is really dropping the ball on tablet hybrids. Sure it didn't work the first time with Windows 8 and early Surface computers, but with refinement, it's a fantastic idea.

I mean, they bagged out Tablet PCs when Microsoft pushed them, and those failed because they were bad, but Apple were then able go back to the concept and make tablets viable and successful. With hybrids, they're nowhere to be seen ever since Jobs said nobody'd want a touchscreen iMac, and instead of revisiting it when the technology becomes viable, they've become stuck with their macOS/iOS divide.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

The worst thing about Wacom besides the price is the drivers. I swear it craps out on me like at least three times a week.

It's about time Wacom got some whooping and stepped up their game. If MS release the screen of the Studio as a standalone Cintiq competitor, my god.

Wacom drivers are rock solid. I know countless people who own both Intuos and Cintiqs, nobody complains about driver stability. Some rare tracking or pressure glitches happen, but I have never seen tablets or drivers not responding.

 

[Shogmaster]

Wacom drivers are rock solid. I know countless people who own both Intuos and Cintiqs, nobody complains about driver stability. Some rare tracking or pressure glitches happen, but I have never seen tablets or drivers not responding.

Of over 20 years of dealing with Wacom drivers, on both PCs and Macs, I have never heard them as "rock solid".

 

[GODDAMN-ONI]

Wacom drivers are rock solid. I know countless people who own both Intuos and Cintiqs, nobody complains about driver stability. Some rare tracking or pressure glitches happen, but I have never seen tablets or drivers not responding.

Just because it works don't mean it's rock solid.
I had to stop using Photoshop CS6 because Wacom never fixed their problem with inaccurate brush strokes

https://www.reddit.com/r/wacom/comments/497lda/wacom_cintiq_q27hd_you_shouldnt_buy_it/

 

[Shogmaster]

Just because it works don't mean it's rock solid, I had to stop using Photoshop cs6 because Wacom never fixed their problem with brush strokes getting wobbly and the only solution is getting a driver that's too old for my Cintiq

https://www.reddit.com/r/wacom/comments/497lda/wacom_cintiq_q27hd_you_shouldnt_buy_it/

I have tin foil hat theory that goes Adobe paid off Wacom to sabotage CS6 pen action. I say this because PS CS6 worked perfectly for me for years but as soon as CC came out, the new Wacom drivers kept giving me weird errors like pressure sensitivity dropping out very few strokes.

 

[watership]

fyi- No production studio is going to replace their Wacom tablets with a Surface Pro or Ipad pro. I'm sure the tablet itself is fine, but production companies require high end monitors like Eizo to work with.

So those are just for hobbyists, independent artists.

As long as that is the case Wacom has a market.

Maybe a surface studio then?

 

[inner-G]

Make touch input apps/plugins for other hardware

Maybe a surface studio then?

Did they say if it has the kind of gamut coverage and accuracy that you need for color grading?

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Maybe a surface studio then?

Depends on the studio and how well an AIO can work at that res in Zbrush and big Photoshop files.

The big issue with that device is that is is an AIO. Great for solo artists, but you are eating a $3000 cost for what is effectively a Surface Pro with a really big screen. No ability to upgrade it means that you're going to run into performance problems at some point that will necessitate replacing the entire device to fix.

 

[dude]

Wacom drivers are rock solid. I know countless people who own both Intuos and Cintiqs, nobody complains about driver stability. Some rare tracking or pressure glitches happen, but I have never seen tablets or drivers not responding.

Sometimes I'd get random strokes with full pressure, sometimes the tablet won't respond to pressure at all (and it won't fix without restarting the driver), other times I'd get other types of random pressure glitching...
Not exactly what I would describe as "rock solid"

 

[GODDAMN-ONI]

I have tin foil hat theory that goes Adobe paid off Wacom to sabotage CS6 pen action. I say this because PS CS6 worked perfectly for me for years but as soon as CC came out, the new Wacom drivers kept giving me weird errors like pressure sensitivity dropping out very few strokes.

it's hard to not think the same when CC works perfectly.

 

[Shogmaster]

Depends on the studio and how well an AIO can work at that res in Zbrush and big Photoshop files.

The big issue with that device is that is is an AIO. Great for solo artists, but you are eating a $3000 cost for what is effectively a Surface Pro with a really big screen. No ability to upgrade it means that you're going to run into performance problems at some point that will necessitate replacing the entire device to fix.

I think out of all the Surface devices, this one has the best chance for easy fix and minor upgrading. I'm betting on MXM GPU modules and maybe even 2.5" storage slot and SoDIMM slots.

 

[sycam0re]

Intuos is still well worth it to me.

Cintiq is absurd.

Agreed fully

 

[Atom Heart Mother]

hopefully the increase in competition actually drives them to lower their prices and up their customer support

 

[Shogmaster]

it's hard to not think the same when CC works perfectly.

I know right?

 

[KonradLaw]

Nah. It's still the best choice for professional tasks. And yes, some good alternative tech is appearing in much cheaper devices, but it's not like Wacom is ignoing that. Their technologies is used in such devices too. When people bring up Surfaces they always seem to forget Lenovo has been making Thinkpads with wacom tech for well over decade.

 

[Funky Papa]

Nah. It's still the best choice for professional tasks. And yes, some good alternative tech is appearing in much cheaper devices, but it's not like Wacom is ignoing that. Their technologies is used in such devices too. When people bring up Surfaces they always seem to forget Lenovo has been making Thinkpads with wacom tech for well over decade.

I wonder what would be the reason.

 

[Monocle]

The Wacom Pro is still the top of the line tablet as far as I'm aware. I adore mine. Minor driver issues aside, the product is just about flawless.

Can't comment on Cintiqs.

 

[Shogmaster]

Nah. It's still the best choice for professional tasks. And yes, some good alternative tech is appearing in much cheaper devices, but it's not like Wacom is ignoing that. Their technologies is used in such devices too. When people bring up Surfaces they always seem to forget Lenovo has been making Thinkpads with wacom tech for well over decade.

Wacom forced ODMs like Lenovo to use EMR on their 2 in 1s when clearly they wanted something more thin and light freindly. Wacom only brought out AES couple years ago because they lost the digitizer parts business to N-Trig Atmel, and Synaptic and others (who used pro cap pen instead of EMR pen) in droves.

 

[Shogmaster]

I wonder what would be the reason.

There shouldn't be a reason since IMO, Lenovo is making the best Windows 10 devices, INCLUDING Surface devices. I'll take my $500 Miix 700 with better pen any day over SP3 and SP4, and Thinkpad Yoga 14 over overpriced and buggy Surface Book.

Out of all the 2 in 1s I have, Lenovos have been the most rock solid.

 

[Funky Papa]

There shouldn't be a reason since IMO, Lenovo is making the best Windows 10 devices, INCLUDING Surface devices. I'll take my $500 Miix 700 with better pen any day over SP3 and SP4, and Thinkpad Yoga 14 over overpriced and buggy Surface Book.

Out of all the 2 in 1s I have, Lenovos have been the most rock solid.

I think their styli just feel wrong and toy-ish. Even if performance is nice, the look and feel go a long way to keep the pros in. But that's just one little thing.

Lenovo's mind share is huge in certain sectors (I thould know; I own one), so it stands for reason that they are not doing things right if Microsoft is stealing their lunch money.

 

[Shogmaster]

I think their stylus just feel wrong and toy-ish. Even if performance is nice, the look and feel go a long way to keep the pros in. But that's just one little thing.

Lenovo's mind share is huge in certain sectors (I thould know; I own one), so it stands for reason that they are not doing things right if Microsoft is stealing their lunch money.

Their EMR pen were made by Wacom's. With AES, they insisted on making their own pen with Wacom parts, and they have over done it with heavy metal silo which i feel is too heavy. I have no idea which pen you are referring to tbh.

And I really doubt MS is stealing their lunch money. Thinkpads sell more than Surface line I'll bet.

 

[Funky Papa]

Their EMR pen were made by Wacom's. With AES, they insisted on making their own pen with Wacom parts, and they have over done it with heavy metal silo which i feel is too heavy. I have no idea which pen you are referring to tbh.

And I really doubt MS is stealing their lunch money. Thinkpads sell more than Surface line I'll bet.

I think I've toyed with every Lenovo that comes with a stylus and has been released over the past four years or so. They never felt satisfying to me even if they perform just fine.

As for sales, I'm obviously talking about comparable Lenovos (read: hybrid devices with a stylus).

 

[Shogmaster]

I think I've toyed with every Lenovo that comes with a stylus and has been released over the past four years or so. They never felt satisfying to me even if they perform just fine.

As for sales, I'm obviously talking about comparable Lenovos (read: hybrid devices with a stylus).

Satisfying it what way? Weight? EMR by definition are super light becuase they lack batteries.

As for sales, I'd bet Surface and Yoga/Miix sales are not that far. I'm Lenovo would be far ahead of all other Window ODMs for sure.

 

[Bishop89]

Wacom for years have been the standard when it comes to pen display technologies.

However, recently other tech companies have caught up and in some ways surpassed Wacom's tech.

With the announcement of the Surface Studio and continued success of the iPad Pro, what's next for this company?

show me the receipts

 

[Shogmaster]

show me the receipts

With Active ES, Wacom's firmware is no where as good as N-Trig's in palm rejection. They only excel at palm rejection when there are separate digitizers for pen and touch, as in Cintiqs.

 

[Phandy]

As long well known companies aren't producing high quality stand alone tablets or tablet-monitors (no built in-PCs, or being tablets like IpadPro or Surface), Wacom will still dominate the professional/studio market.

If MS releases this new Surface Studio screen without the built in PC for use on windows and mac, and thus brings its cost way down (to like half of the cintiq), it will be great competition. But until then, Wacom still has a decent market to themselves.

Also the Wacom Intuos Pro is still hands down the best tablet for high-grade hobbyists, freelancers and professionals at a pretty reasonable price, without being tied into some closed system.

Wacom drivers still suck though, never been deal-breakers, but they do seem pretty crashy.

 

[Ontoue]

For someone who cant stand the texture of paper or anything similar to it, how does a Cintiq 22HD compare to the Microsoft Surface Studio or other tablets? Right now I'm using an Intuos with a glossy magazing page taped over the top of it, but obviously that isnt going to work for one with a screen built into it and I'm really wanting to get a larger tablet with a screen.

 

[my name is ed]

Of over 20 years of dealing with Wacom drivers, on both PCs and Macs, I have never heard them as "rock solid".

I'm waiting on a driver update for the 12wx because right now, the mac os update has made my cintiq unusable. Granted it is a 12wx so not high priority for them but still...

 

[Huw_Dawson]

show me the receipts

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019FN632Q/?tag=neogaf0e-20

VS

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008HB5K5O/?tag=neogaf0e-20

As one example.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

Loving the competition. I hope in 6 months Cintiq drops in price by 15% or so so I can finally buy one. My Intous was a great replacement to my Bamboo, but this is (my final form) the last thing I need in my collection. Cintiq 27QHD is around $4,000 with tax here in Canada smh...

 

[awilliams213]

I'm waiting on a driver update for the 12wx because right now, the mac os update has made my cintiq unusable. Granted it is a 12wx so not high priority for them but still...

Yikes thanks for the heads up, I still use my 12WX.

 

[KonradLaw]

I wonder what would be the reason.

Because Windows sucked for touch till 8.

Still liked those devices though. I wish Lenovo would make new swivel hybrids.

Yoga is cool and all, especially THinkpad versions with that crazy KB, but swivel allowed for removable big battery on the back that Yoga makes impossible.

x260 with swivel touchscreen would be pretty much my dream laptop:

As it stands the tablet functionality is just not worth it, so I stick to regular Thinkpads

 

[TheSeks]

It is a huge question mark whether Surface studio is going to match Wacom's technologies when it comes to accuracy and support.

It should. Given Wacom worked with MS for the first 2 generations of the Surface Pen before dropping out (or falling out with?) of Microsoft's co-op and having MS do the Surface 3/4 pens alone.

 

[hirokazu]

Because Windows sucked for touch till 8.

Still liked those devices though. I wish Lenovo would make new swivel hybrids.

I had a ThinkPad with swivel back in the days of Windows XP Tablet PC Edition. I loved the tablet PC functionality, but holy hell that thing was underpowered and slow, LOL.

 

[Captain N. Tenneal]

If we could get the Surface Studio as a stand-alone monitor ala the Cintiq, ideally a bit cheaper or even in the realm of the same price, I'd likely drop Wacom like a hot rock. Until then, I still need to keep them in the running - hoping for a new model to replace the 22HD as my 20WSX creeps closer to a decade old.

Don't take too long, Microsoft!

 

[z3phon]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019FN632Q/?tag=neogaf0e-20

VS

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008HB5K5O/?tag=neogaf0e-20

As one example.

From the reviews I had seen on wacom alternatives like the Monoprice tablet the hardware seems on par if not better than Wacom but what I would be concerned about is software support, like compatibility and driver issues.

 

[BoosterDuck]

and Wacom's starting to wake up

http://eu.shop.wacom.eu/download?id=63&region=us&_ga=1.266008975.183366927.1472377516

it looks good but needs a stand though

and a VESA mount

 

[Breads]

Took em way too long to add a pen clip.

 

[Timo]

I dont know why they don't go 3:2 for the smaller ones, but cool beans. Would be really cool if its competitively priced, but i bet its 1500$ For the 16 inch.

 

[Captain N. Tenneal]

Looks appealing, still waiting for something in the 20" range though. 15 is just a bit too small for my daily workhorse, I think.

 

[TrAcEr_x90]

So is surface studio a threat at all? Or is there still jitter with the new screen still?

 

[Captain N. Tenneal]

It begins....

Other vendors may be getting in on the Surface Studio form factor as well...

Dell's version teased:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5E_dGW2DFY

 

[Xun]

and Wacom's starting to wake up

http://eu.shop.wacom.eu/download?id=63&region=us&_ga=1.266008975.183366927.1472377516



it looks good but needs a stand though

and a VESA mount

Fingers crossed it's priced decently.

I very much doubt it though.

 

[Shogmaster]

It begins....

Other vendors may be getting in on the Surface Studio form factor as well...

Dell's version teased:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5E_dGW2DFY

Irony is, it's probably using Wacom AES pen like rest of the ell pen line.

 

[BoosterDuck]

oh wow I see an on-screen keyboard on the capacitive buttons, that's going to be great for google image searches

and there's a monitor switch button which will lessen the use of a mouse

thanks Microsoft for making Wacom do work