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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN

D

DarthWoo

I'm glad Grandpa porked a Chinese Muslim
maharg said:
Well now, come on. Black holes as a means of time travel have been a trope of the genre since black holes were theorized. And it's no more or less absurd than any other means of time travel.

Now the idea that you need to bother to shoot a ship being eaten by a black hole, that's ridiculous.
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You probably wouldn't need to, but given that this guy and his crew just murdered an entire planet, wouldn't you WANT to?
 
Z

Zzoram

Member
maharg said:
Well now, come on. Black holes as a means of time travel have been a trope of the genre since black holes were theorized. And it's no more or less absurd than any other means of time travel.

Now the idea that you need to bother to shoot a ship being eaten by a black hole, that's ridiculous.
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Actually since they traveled back in time through a black hole in the first place, if they didn't shoot the ship while it's shields were disabled by the black hole, it's entirely possible the Narada would've come out on the other side further back in time or in the future or something. That is of course assuming that black holes can lead to time travel.
 
H

Henchmen21

Banned
There really is no reason to try and justify it. It was a dumbass plot point out of many from a dumbass movie.

Back to TNG S3 though. Wish I could go to an airing of BoBW but have no money. It's even showing in a theatre near me.
 
K

kharma45

Member
It'll likely be the latter but as long as it's fun like the last film I'll not mind too much.

Chose the 3D option too. I know it's post-converted but the people who saw the 10 min preview in it said it was decent so hopefully the full film is.
 
S

SniperHunter

Banned
I hope JJ Abrams gets to make a Star Trek TV show. I liked Lost and I am watching Fringe right now and I like it a lot. Maybe after he is done with the Star Wars trilogy
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
SniperHunter said:
I hope JJ Abrams gets to make a Star Trek TV show. I liked Lost and I am watching Fringe right now and I like it a lot. Maybe after he is done with the Star Wars trilogy
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Please no!

Don't get me wrong, his stuff is entertaining, but I don't think he understands nor is able to properly convey what Trek is about.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Rayme said:
I'm not sure Trek always knew what Trek was about.
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While true, solid Trek investigates social, ethical, and philosophical questions. In classic Sci Fi style, removing the watcher (or reader) from preconceptions and biases of real life helps the person take in the situation and clearly see the whole picture.

JJ Abrams has lens flares, rad explosions, p'good dialogue, and interesting plots. Sadly, he doesn't have much of the above. Even Fringe was so involved with the insane plot, any of the above was pushed to the side.

Good Trek (and I'd argue Sci Fi in general) exists to create the situation above, it should never be second hand to any other element. If the plot and the rest is great, then you have a masterpiece.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
I think that any attempt to elevate Trek to some hoity toity ivory tower ignores the fact that Trek was also about making those themes more accessible in a much broader way than just removing the viewer from their social context. The best Trek was and is fun, occasionally balancing more towards the fun and occasionally more towards the message.

There's nothing wrong with Trek being in a fun phase right now. It spent far too long taking itself far too fucking seriously.
 
G

GameplayWhore

Member
maharg said:
I think that any attempt to elevate Trek to some hoity toity ivory tower ignores the fact that Trek was also about making those themes more accessible in a much broader way than just removing the viewer from their social context. The best Trek was and is fun, occasionally balancing more towards the fun and occasionally more towards the message.

There's nothing wrong with Trek being in a fun phase right now. It spent far too long taking itself far too fucking seriously.
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I am not specifically disagreeing with you, but I am curious to know what particular spans of time you think Trek as a whole was doing this.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
GameplayWhore said:
I am not specifically disagreeing with you, but I am curious to know what particular spans of time you think Trek as a whole was doing this.
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Being more fun than serious? Most of the 80s. When it was all movies. Star Trek 2 had solid themes but was mostly an action film, 3 was on the schlocky end by far, and 4 was just plain silly. 5 was idiotic nonsense, and 6 brought us into the TNG era which was much more sober.

After TNG you have DS9, which was SRS Business but could back it up and then Voyager and Enterprise which were pretentious but crap (until Enterprise S4 brought the fun back).
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
maharg said:
Being more fun than serious? Most of the 80s. When it was all movies. Star Trek 2 had solid themes but was mostly an action film, 3 was on the schlocky end by far, and 4 was just plain silly. 5 was idiotic nonsense, and 6 brought us into the TNG era which was much more sober.

After TNG you have DS9, which was SRS Business but could back it up and then Voyager and Enterprise which were pretentious but crap (until Enterprise S4 brought the fun back).
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But the fun combined with what I discussed above is what defines 'GOOD' Trek. Just fun stuff isn't the Trek I know, but since I'm a hair shy of 30, my experience was through TNG and DS9.

I think that Movie Star Trek is totally different than TV Star Trek for the most part, as you've pointed out. That's why above I said no thanks to Abrams Trek Show. I find his movies really entertaining though.
 
A

antonz

Member
So apparently this is Harrisons Ship in new trek
vengeance-b.jpg
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M

maharg

idspispopd
I think the main similarity is the deflector. The doughnut-saucer is pretty novel, if kind of awful in terms of how unconnected the bridge seems to be from everything.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
antonz said:
So apparently this is Harrisons Ship in new trek
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Secondary Hull ruins it. Can't really screw up a saucer section, and I like the armored look of the Nacelles, make them look less vulnerable than they usually do on Star Trek ships.

The Secondary hull just screams "This is CGI and not a model", and ruins the aesthetic for me.
 
A

antonz

Member
DrForester said:
Secondary Hull ruins it. Can't really screw up a saucer section, and I like the armored look of the Nacelles, make them look less vulnerable than they usually do on Star Trek ships.

The Secondary hull just screams "This is CGI and not a model", and ruins the aesthetic for me.
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Have to agree. The secondary hull even looks like they got somewhat lazy with the texture work. Saucer is much more detailed.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
I feel like it's pretty clear that he's not Khan at this point, incidentally. I mean I suppose it could be the equivalent of the Reliant but I have a hard time believing Abrams would replicate TWoK to that degree. Just really don't think that's something that'd interest him.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
I'm guessing the hole is to make the secondary hull bridge more noticeable (Just looks like something that was designed because there's going to be a saucer separation).
 
M

Mr. Luchador

Member
Only 8 episodes into Season 2 of 'Enterprise', but I'm not really enjoying this one. Seems directionless, certainly compared to the last 4-5 episodes of Season 1 where it seemed things were gaining a bit of momentum and stories were referring to previous episodes.
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Mr. Luchador said:
Only 8 episodes into Season 2 of 'Enterprise', but I'm not really enjoying this one. Seems directionless, certainly compared to the last 4-5 episodes of Season 1 where it seemed things were gaining a bit of momentum and stories were referring to previous episodes.
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You are deep into the slog. Welcome to the worst part of the show. That stretch around that part of season 2 is... just UGH. If you're 8 episodes in, you've got probably 5 or maybe 6 episodes before the season starts turning back around.

It's ROUGH.
 
C

Currygan

at last, for christ's sake
viewtifulsub said:
Finishing up Season5 of Voyager.

Why did they even bother to keep Chakotay on the show? He has become a gloried extra at this point.
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me and my sis used to make a lot of jokes about his constant clicking on that little screen, until we really had enough of his uselessness and the show's general woefulness and just hoped it'd end soon
 
A

Aylinato

Member
viewtifulsub said:
Finishing up Season5 of Voyager.

Why did they even bother to keep Chakotay on the show? He has become a gloried extra at this point.
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still better than being Janeway



tbh I would believe that the entire thing was a construction of Janeway's own creation in a holodeck where she played out her entire fantasy of being a starship captain because she wasn't able to become one on her own because of her failings at Starfleet's academy. I mean hell she never follows the Prime Directive. Her ship keeps regenerating. The borg don't act like the borg. Her crew never dies. She somehow manages to get promoted higher than Picard (ha). Yea, so to reconcile how awful it is, I believe her entire journey was in a holodeck program. The entire thing(how else do u explain her entire ship being turned into a holodeck and her reliance on getting advice from a fucking program as her best option?
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Aylinato said:
still better than being Janeway



tbh I would believe that the entire thing was a construction of Janeway's own creation in a holodeck where she played out her entire fantasy of being a starship captain because she wasn't able to become one on her own because of her failings at Starfleet's academy. I mean hell she never follows the Prime Directive. Her ship keeps regenerating. The borg don't act like the borg. Her crew never dies. She somehow manages to get promoted higher than Picard (ha). Yea, so to reconcile how awful it is, I believe her entire journey was in a holodeck program. The entire thing(how else do u explain her entire ship being turned into a holodeck and her reliance on getting advice from a fucking program as her best option?
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I just accept Voyager for what it is. A Trek show that started off good and progressively got worse as it went on. That's really what makes Voyager stand out for me amongst the other series, every other Trek series starts off a little rough and then progressively gets better while Voyager does the opposite.

Also, didn't Picard reject promotion a few times?
 
A

Aylinato

Member
Sephzilla said:
I just accept Voyager for what it is. A Trek show that started off good and progressively got worse as it went on. That's really what makes Voyager stand out for me amongst the other series, every other Trek series starts off a little rough and then progressively gets better while Voyager does the opposite.

Also, didn't Picard reject promotion a few times?
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he did, and was advised by Kirk not to take a promotion because captain of the enterprise>being an admiral
 
G

GameplayWhore

Member
Sephzilla said:
I just accept Voyager for what it is. A Trek show that started off good and progressively got worse as it went on. That's really what makes Voyager stand out for me amongst the other series, every other Trek series starts off a little rough and then progressively gets better while Voyager does the opposite.
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I wish I lived in your alternate universe where the season of fortnightly anomalies was a good one.



rykomatsu said:
Looks like a poorly done fan design...don't like it much
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The new movie era has pretty much been one long fanwank. Mind, I'm not exactly complaining, as most of the wankery appeals to me rather highly, but it is what it is.



maharg said:
Being more fun than serious? Most of the 80s. When it was all movies. Star Trek 2 had solid themes but was mostly an action film, 3 was on the schlocky end by far, and 4 was just plain silly. 5 was idiotic nonsense, and 6 brought us into the TNG era which was much more sober.

After TNG you have DS9, which was SRS Business but could back it up and then Voyager and Enterprise which were pretentious but crap (until Enterprise S4 brought the fun back).
Click to expand...

This makes sense, though I would point out that First Contact was a pretty silly action movie, even moreso than Khan. And I found 3 to be pretty dark. Schlockiness in it was unintentional, and there was also plenty of it in Generations and Insurrection (most examples I can think of involving Data). Your point that the latter shows seemed to take themselves more seriously is interesting.
 
B

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
GameplayWhore said:
I wish I lived in your alternate universe where the season of fortnightly anomalies was a good one.
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I would say the premise was a really good one. Lone lost ship far from home, doing whatever they needed to do to survive. There is so much potential there. But then they did Voyager instead.
 
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