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[GameplayWhore]

Says the guy who includes the Abrahms movies as Trek to watch. I'd rather watches 5 24hrs straight than either JJ movies. It's also telling that 5 is still not as stupid as both JJ movies.

Heh. Despite the replies other people have made to this, I accept this criticism. The last two movies are, under examination, pretty dumb, and I can see good reasons why they might be left out of a list of recommended films, at least to some target audiences.

However, famed senior citizen and serial killer Harry S. Plinkett did bring up an interesting point (which I agree with) wherein a film can be good by way of being dumb and action packed, and it can be good by way of being smart and boring, but it's a rather powerful sin to be the worst of those two worlds.

The JJ films are absolutely solid films for somebody who is not a super serious trekkie, which was the perspective (by my presumption) of the person who was asking what films to watch. They were most strongly made for people who recognize the more popular memes that Star Trek brought into the public consciousness but who are neither steeped in the mythology nor super critical of writing in science fiction.

The Final Frontier failed in every way that the New Trek films failed (nonsensical plot, arguably dumb villains, sexy cat girls), but it also failed in the ways where the New Trek films succeeded (getting the interplay between characters decently on target -- "marshmelons" and "row your boat" does not qualify, special effects, being entertaining, competent direction).


That said, the fake MST3K version (not the Rifftrax, if such a thing exists of it) of Star Trek V is actually really entertaining. I'd recommend that if you can get your hands on it

 

[firehawk12]

Maybe. Not sure since I reread the post you quoted. Fuchsdh was talking about Star Trek as a whole I think.

I thought he was making a reference to that anecdote that is always brought up when it comes to NBC and original Star Trek - that it had million of viewers and would be considered a "success" by today's standards but they still cancelled it. Which is true in the strictest sense, but doesn't take into account that there were only a few channels in the 60s.

The JJ films are absolutely solid films for somebody who is not a super serious trekkie, which was the perspective (by my presumption) of the person who was asking what films to watch. They were most strongly made for people who recognize the more popular memes that Star Trek brought into the public consciousness but who are neither steeped in the mythology nor super critical of writing in science fiction.

If you don't care about Star Trek and its canon, you'd be better off watching Galaxy Quest though. It's a better Trek movie than either of JJ's big budget efforts.

 

[kharma45]

I think it's absurd to even suggest that ST5 is more cerebral than 09 or, especially, ID. ID actually dealt with social issues, whether you like how it dealt with them or not. ST5 was just an opportunity to stroke Shatner's ego.

Oh I didn't mean that ST V was a more cerebral experience than JJ's films. I meant in isolation with regards to criticism of the films for their lack of 'brains' for want of a better word. Star Trek V is a turd through and through.

 

[maharg]

Eh. I don't know how anyone can argue that STiD dealt with social issues well.

I can argue it easily but I'm honestly not going to bother here right now. Wil Wheton actually did a pretty good job of arguing it on his blog, and I agree almost entirely with him on it, so you can go read that if you'd like.

But that's not the point. ST5 wasn't really even making the attempt. It was all Shatner ego stroke. And in terms of plot and character cohesion it's not even a tenth the film either of the Abrams films are.

The only good thing about 5 is the scenes in Yosemite. You can just watch the first and last five minutes of the film and get everything good about it.

And I say all this as someone who's been a Trek fan since he can remember.

 

[firehawk12]

I can argue it easily but I'm honestly not going to bother here right now. Wil Wheton actually did a pretty good job of arguing it on his blog, and I agree almost entirely with him on it, so you can go read that if you'd like.

But that's not the point. ST5 wasn't really even making the attempt. It was all Shatner ego stroke. And in terms of plot and character cohesion it's not even a tenth the film either of the Abrams films are.

The only good thing about 5 is the scenes in Yosemite. You can just watch the first and last five minutes of the film and get everything good about it.

And I say all this as someone who's been a Trek fan since he can remember.

I guess the funny thing is that the relationship between the "big three" is more genuine in that camping trip than in the entire running time of both JJ Trek movies.

 

[maharg]

I guess the funny thing is that the relationship between the "big three" is more genuine in that camping trip than in the entire running time of both JJ Trek movies.

Insofar as that's true, it only makes sense that people who've known each other for several decades are closer friends than people who've known each other for a couple of years. Even at the start of TOS they'd known each other longer than they've known each other in the Abramsverse, afaik.

 

[The Librarian]

I read Wil Wheaton's post about the social commentary STiD provides, and he doesn't do a very good job of explaining why it was good or done particularly well. The problem with STiD's social commentary is that its story – and all its problems can be traced back to its story, really – has ADD. STiD's social commentary is more like the social commentary that skirts the surface and seems to be there just to make the movie appear smarter. The terrorist bombing, as well as the use of "drones," are brought up ethically then quickly forgotten. These social commentaries are not a major point in the story, and they certainly aren't any recognizable themes with the film. They're executed clumsily at best.

 

[lastplayed]

I guess the funny thing is that the relationship between the "big three" is more genuine in that camping trip than in the entire running time of both JJ Trek movies.

Spock in V is infinitely more likable than Quinto Spock. I really don't like his version.

 

[Henchmen21]

Spock in V is infinitely more likable than Quinto Spock. I really don't like his version.

That's cause Quinto doesn't play it like conflicted Spock. He plays it like Emo Spock.

 

[firehawk12]

Insofar as that's true, it only makes sense that people who've known each other for several decades are closer friends than people who've known each other for a couple of years. Even at the start of TOS they'd known each other longer than they've known each other in the Abramsverse, afaik.

Well, I mean, there is really no scene in the JJ movies that gives you any reason to believe that Spock would go

Spoiler

psycho and try to punch Khan to death

. It's like we just have to assume they're friends because they have the same names as the characters played by Nimoy and Shatner.

 

[maharg]

I read Wil Wheaton's post about the social commentary STiD provides, and he doesn't do a very good job of explaining why it was good or done particularly well. The problem with STiD's social commentary is that its story – and all its problems can be traced back to its story, really – has ADD. STiD's social commentary is more like the social commentary that skirts the surface and seems to be there just to make the movie appear smarter. The terrorist bombing, as well as the use of "drones," are brought up ethically then quickly forgotten. These social commentaries are not a major point in the story, and they certainly aren't any recognizable themes with the film. They're executed clumsily at best.

I disagree. It's the first time Star Trek has taken a strong moral stand on anything in many many years.

Spoiler

Section 31

is fucked over and Kirk makes a rousing speech about not turning into the thing we hate most. It could easily be an episode of TOS, editing aside.

Your argument rests largely on the fact that it is *also* much flashier than old Trek. It can, and imo is, both. I think there's a valid argument to be made that 09 was lacking in substance, but not at all ID. I came out from my first viewing feeling like I'd seen something Gene would have *liked* for the first time since TNG and that feeling didn't go away on repeat viewing.

Well, I mean, there is really no scene in the JJ movies that gives you any reason to believe that Spock would go

Spoiler

psycho and try to punch Khan to death

. It's like we just have to assume they're friends because they have the same names as the characters played by Nimoy and Shatner.

This is extremely subjective, so all I can say is that I disagree. A lot of it is shorthand, as it almost always is in film, but it's there and it makes sense to me.

If they'd had them all go to Yosemite at the end I'd agree with you. But given the starting point I think they've done a great job of bringing together these people believably and consistently with the universe they live in. Sometimes also haphazardly, but whatever. Trek has never and will never be perfect or high art in terms of characterization. It's at its best when it's a bit schlocky imo.

 

[The Librarian]

I disagree. It's the first time Star Trek has taken a strong moral stand on anything in many many years.

Spoiler

Section 31

is fucked over and Kirk makes a rousing speech about not turning into the thing we hate most. It could easily be an episode of TOS, editing aside.

Your argument rests largely on the fact that it is *also* much flashier than old Trek. It can, and imo is, both. I think there's a valid argument to be made that 09 was lacking in substance, but not at all ID. I came out from my first viewing feeling like I'd seen something Gene would have *liked* for the first time since TNG and that feeling didn't go away on repeat viewing.

Even if I were to accept Kirk's speech at the end to be resolving the social issues the movie broached – I don't, because there's hardly anything to link the two – that's a pretty lame way to wrap up the commentary. It was like tying everything into a pretty bow without acknowledging the consequences of any of the characters' actions. It was an incredibly cheesy, "Don't worry guys, let me now tell you everything is better now" speech. It'd be far better if the use of remote torpedoes was the main story point of the entire movie, but it's not, and it can't unless people want it to be "boring."

STiD has more substance than ST09, but it doesn't do anything great with it. It's barely there.

 

[antonz]

I actually enjoy 5 though it does have some big issues with character interaction etc.

The new movies turn me off because they deliberately go out of their way to minimize the importance of the trinity characters while trying to force Uhura on everyone. It is sad too because out of all the cast Urban is a fantastic McCoy and is basically treated like a random red shirt as far as being used.

The new movies don't even begin to attempt to have any smarts about them. Its all in your face action.

 

[snaffles]

Well after kicking that hornets nest I ended up buying the Star Trek Stardate collection on blu-ray, and TOS on dvd. So I guess now I can make up my own mind on which ones are worth watching. It says it has 10 movies so I assume it doesn't have the new ones anyway but thanks for the advice.

Also I know I keep going on about DS9 being darker in tone than TNG but I really wasn't expecting

Spoiler

the woman to hang herself at

the start of season 6. That actually shocked me.

 

[maharg]

The new movies turn me off because they deliberately go out of their way to minimize the importance of the trinity characters while trying to force Uhura on everyone.

What on earth?

It was an incredibly cheesy, "Don't worry guys, let me now tell you everything is better now" speech.

This has literally never happened in Star Trek ever.

 

[The Librarian]

This has literally never happened in Star Trek ever.

I know. That doesn't make it less lame or less lazy.

 

[Cheerilee]

I think it's absurd to even suggest that ST5 is more cerebral than 09 or, especially, ID. ID actually dealt with social issues, whether you like how it dealt with them or not. ST5 was just an opportunity to stroke Shatner's ego.

Religion is a social issue.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I can argue it easily but I'm honestly not going to bother here right now. Wil Wheton actually did a pretty good job of arguing it on his blog, and I agree almost entirely with him on it, so you can go read that if you'd like.

But that's not the point. ST5 wasn't really even making the attempt. It was all Shatner ego stroke. And in terms of plot and character cohesion it's not even a tenth the film either of the Abrams films are.

The only good thing about 5 is the scenes in Yosemite. You can just watch the first and last five minutes of the film and get everything good about it.

And I say all this as someone who's been a Trek fan since he can remember.

I'm going to suggest you read the Wikipedia article on Star Trek V (I wrote the damn thing for people like you ) I think like many things opinions on V have sort of calcified over time in ways that are unfair to Shatner. He certainly has an ego, and he certainly isn't a director on the caliber of Meyer, but he also suffered production difficulties that would have ruined many a better filmmaker, and his own vision for the film as initially laid out was far more interesting than what we got. The crappy humor throughout wasn't his idea, for instance.

As for the message, the glasnost thing with the Klingons and searching for god are underutilized, for sure, but it's not trying to be a brain-dead action flick, and I respect it for not treading over similar territory as the other films (like certain crappy death scenes ripped from superior movies, cough cough.)

Really, Into Darkness would have been a lot better for me if it had dropped the Khan angle altogether and just made it about rogue agent John Harrison.

 

[maharg]

I'm going to suggest you read the Wikipedia article on Star Trek V (I wrote the damn thing for people like you ) I think like many things opinions on V have sort of calcified over time in ways that are unfair to Shatner. He certainly has an ego, and he certainly isn't a director on the caliber of Meyer, but he also suffered production difficulties that would have ruined many a better filmmaker, and his own vision for the film as initially laid out was far more interesting than what we got. The crappy humor throughout wasn't his idea, for instance.

As for the message, the glasnost thing with the Klingons and searching for god are underutilized, for sure, but it's not trying to be a brain-dead action flick, and I respect it for not treading over similar territory as the other films (like certain crappy death scenes ripped from superior movies, cough cough.)

Really, Into Darkness would have been a lot better for me if it had dropped the Khan angle altogether and just made it about rogue agent John Harrison.

I'm aware of the production issues. Doesn't really matter, I can't judge a thing that was never made.

 

[snaffles]

Really, Into Darkness would have been a lot better for me if it had dropped the Khan angle altogether and just made it about rogue agent John Harrison.

I just watched Wrath of Khan for the first time last night after having already seen Into Darkness and I would have to agree with this point. It adds nothing for the viewer unfamiliar with the franchise, and only detracts from the experience for those that are familiar with it. The changes they make to the scenes from Wrath of Khan just feel like something made by a focus group or really bad writers.

Also I watched The Motion Picture, I think Spock penetrated a giant space anus at some point but I was kind of already falling asleep at that point, fairly forgettable movie.

 

[The Librarian]

Also I watched The Motion Picture, I think Spock penetrated a giant space anus at some point but I was kind of already falling asleep at that point, fairly forgettable movie.

:lol

 

[Henchmen21]

I just watched Wrath of Khan for the first time last night after having already seen Into Darkness and I would have to agree with this point. It adds nothing for the viewer unfamiliar with the franchise, and only detracts from the experience for those that are familiar with it. The changes they make to the scenes from Wrath of Khan just feel like something made by a focus group or really bad writers.

Also I watched The Motion Picture, I think Spock penetrated a giant space anus at some point but I was kind of already falling asleep at that point, fairly forgettable movie.

I think you're on to something there.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I think you're on to something there.

Can't wait until they go write a Thundercats reboot or something and leave Star Trek alone.

Also, did anyone else get close to laughing at Kirk in the reactor? Having him kick the damn thing was pretty damn stupid looking.

 

[firehawk12]

Naw, they're going to ruin Star Wars first.

I think it'll be cool when Mark Hamill as old Luke Skywalker meets Robert Pattison as young Luke Skywalker in episode 7 in order to give him advice about how to use the Force.

 

[funkystudent]

Had some Earl Grey tea and wasnt feeling it.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Naw, they're going to ruin Star Wars first.

I think it'll be cool when Mark Hamill as old Luke Skywalker meets Robert Pattison as young Luke Skywalker in episode 7 in order to give him advice about how to use the Force.

Oh yeah, forgot about Old Spock's irrelevant cameo.

Am I in the minority in thinking that Nimoy in Star Trek '09 was kind of pointless too? While I appreciate that while functionally it was a reboot but technically it left the other Trek alone, mostly he just seemed there to info-dump.

 

[firehawk12]

Had some Earl Grey tea and wasnt feeling it.

I bet it wasn't hot though.

 

[funkystudent]

I bet it wasn't hot though.

It was hot as heck. Nearly burned my mouth on the first sip.

Is cold tea even a thing? I have seen iced coffee but tea? Why did he always have to tell the computer to make it hot?

Surely "hot" should be the default temperature for tea and if someone wanted cold tea that would be a extra command?

 

[lastplayed]

Had some Earl Grey tea and wasnt feeling it.

I'm not ashamed to admit, TNG got me trying earl grey tea when I was about 15. I've been drinking it ever since.

Is cold tea even a thing? I have seen iced coffee but tea? Why did he always have to tell the computer to make it hot?

 

[firehawk12]

Oh yeah, forgot about Old Spock's irrelevant cameo.

Am I in the minority in thinking that Nimoy in Star Trek '09 was kind of pointless too? While I appreciate that while functionally it was a reboot but technically it left the other Trek alone, mostly he just seemed there to info-dump.

It was there as a way to "preserve the original timeline" and show that JJ Trek is a fork or something. As a way of relaunching the series, it seemed somewhat honest at the time.

It was hot as heck. Nearly burned my mouth on the first sip.

Is cold tea even a thing? I have seen iced coffee but tea? Why did he always have to tell the computer to make it hot?

Surely "hot" would should be the default temperature for tea and if someone wanted cold tea that would be a extra command?

Haha, maybe the default is warm so that it's immediately drinkable.

 

[Henchmen21]

I'm not ashamed to admit, TNG got me trying earl grey tea when I was about 15. I've been drinking it ever since.

Same here. It's the only tea I like in fact.

And how can somebody not know about iced tea? It's been around for ages.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Off topic, Forgive me

Here's what I like

Star Trek, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT(less so but still enjoyed)
Stargate SG1, SGA, SGU(See ENT)
Farscape (kind of enjoy it)
Andromeda (eh, hopefully it gets better)

What is Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica like, I've heard good things about both but never really paid attention to any of it, I watched the BSG pilot some time ago and couldn't help but think it took itself too seriously is the show much different? Is it more earth/planet based always focusing on the threat or does it have aliens and space ships and pew pew and funny episode like Trek and SG?

Feel free to recommend more btw

 

[maharg]

Off topic, Forgive me

Here's what I like

Star Trek, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT(less so but still enjoyed)
Stargate SG1, SGA, SGU(See ENT)
Farscape (kind of enjoy it)
Andromeda (eh, hopefully it gets better)

What is Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica like, I've heard good things about both but never really paid attention to any of it, I watched the BSG pilot some time ago and couldn't help but think it took itself too seriously is the show much different? Is it more earth/planet based always focusing on the threat or does it have aliens and space ships and pew pew and funny episode like Trek and SG?

Feel free to recommend more btw

There are no aliens whatsoever in BSG, but it's in space and focused largely on space battles. It takes a detour to a planet for a while in the middle, but that part of the show's a bit dire. It also takes itself very seriously all the time and is very rarely funny. It's very good for that kind of show, though, for most of its run. Really shits the bed at the end though.

Babylon 5 has aliens, takes place largely on a space station but also has some space battles. It has a strong running story that was more or less planned out in advance for the whole 5 year run (though the original plan had it more like a 10 year run, as two different shows, and it was significantly compressed). It's kind of Trek-like, similar premise to DS9 but goes off in a very different direction.

Same here. It's the only tea I like in fact.

And how can somebody not know about iced tea? It's been around for ages.

To be fair, there's kind of two things called Ice(d) Tea. The sugar drink, like liptons or nestea, is really more like a flat tea-flavoured soda, but in some places iced tea is actually fully prepared tea that's been quickly cooled down with ice and isn't sweetened. You could have earl grey iced.

 

[Cheerilee]

I can argue it easily but I'm honestly not going to bother here right now. Wil Wheton actually did a pretty good job of arguing it on his blog, and I agree almost entirely with him on it, so you can go read that if you'd like.

http://wilwheaton.net/2013/06/my-review-of-star-trek-into-darkness/#more-3785

Spoiler

He didn't like the opening, but it set up the Spock thing.

He didn't mind Uhura's bitch-fest in the shuttle about Spock being willing to "leave her" by running off on dangerous missions where he might die, but then he calls her a strong woman for moments later volunteering to get killed by staring down a bunch of angry Klingons. Also, she's apparently a badass in one of the many climaxes which I don't remember.

He didn't like Carol Marcus (especially considering how progressive Wrath of Khan was with her three decades ago), but he imagines that there are deleted scenes which magically turn her into a much better character.

He loved the pacing, which never let you stop and realize how much nothing made sense.

He loved the Khan reveal, an obvious and unnecessary namedropping which only had value to Star Trek fanboys.

He loved the Kirk/Spock relationship which I don't think was there (it was sort of there, in that TOS had a Kirk/Spock relationship, and these characters are named Kirk and Spock), but as he points out "When Kirk and Spock traded places with their counterparts in The Wrath of Khan, it blew me away, and if the movie hadn’t worked so well up to that point, if they hadn’t developed Kirk and Spock’s relationship the way that they did, it would have been laughable."

I agree with him on Cumberbatch.

He thinks that Admiral Robocop's grand plan of nonsense, involving meat popsicles and sacrificing Enterprise to start a war, was the point of the whole movie, and very topical. And the ship crashing gave him 9/11 flashbacks while I was pretty much desensitized by that point in the movie.

He thinks that "being topical" is very Roddenberry, and that while STID didn't handle the topic as well as TNG might have, he thinks that it's a reality that Hollywood blockbusters can't be that smart (has nothing to do with the writers being hacks).

And most importantly, the film was fun (I agree).

 

[viewtifulsub]

Finished up the Voyager finale. Much like the entire series, it was rather underwhelming. Don't know whether if is because the whole thing was reminiscent of "All Good Things..." or that it featured the borg queen again (I enjoyed pre-Contact borgs when they were mindless technophiles).

Oh yea, 7 season season of a crew stranded in space attempting to get home, and the show ends yet to reach their destination. Great logic there.

4 shows down. Time to take an extended break before going where no man should never boldly go, Star Trek: Enterprise.

 

[firehawk12]

I guess I'm LTTP, but the Best of Both Worlds bluray has an exclusive documentary and commentary? Why would they do this if not to be total assholes?

Edit: Also, watching the S3 episode "Who Watches the Watchers", it's incredible how anti-religion the show could be. Picard basically says that having religious belief is akin to going back to the Dark Ages... given how everything has been so "spiritual" in science fiction lately, it's refreshing to see a show basically declare that science is rational and religion isn't.

 

[lastplayed]

Edit: Also, watching the S3 episode "Who Watches the Watchers", it's incredible how anti-religion the show could be. Picard basically says that having religious belief is akin to going back to the Dark Ages... given how everything has been so "spiritual" in science fiction lately, it's refreshing to see a show basically declare that science is rational and religion isn't.

Yeah, and to think DS9 was only a few years later.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Finished up the Voyager finale. Much like the entire series, it was rather underwhelming. Don't know whether if is because the whole thing was reminiscent of "All Good Things..." or that it featured the borg queen again (I enjoyed pre-Contact borgs when they were mindless technophiles).

Oh yea, 7 season season of a crew stranded in space attempting to get home, and the show ends yet to reach their destination. Great logic there.

4 shows down. Time to take an extended break before going where no man should never boldly go, Star Trek: Enterprise.

Yeah, Voyager slowly neutered the Borg. I'd also love to know what happened to the Borg resistance from Unimatrix Zero--in my head-canon, they slowly fight a losing war and fall to infighting when some decide to use the same tactics as the Borg to survive. Like many things Voyager did with the Borg, there was some promise that was immediately forgotten (basically only the Borg children did anything interesting story-wise.)

Yeah, and to think DS9 was only a few years later.

I thought that the portrayal of the Bajorans and their belief system was pretty excellent for most of the show's run. Then we got "Reckoning", replete with good-guy/bad-guy energy faceoff, Kai Winn and Dukat turned into cartoon villains, and the Book of Nonsensical Plot-Device reared its ugly head. Things just stopped making any sense.

Watching BSG, I kind of got the feeling that the only reason the spiritual bullcrap didn't get worse in DS9 was because there were other people to reign him back in. I simply couldn't get any further than ten episodes from the series finale before I gave up on BSG. And then I somehow convinced myself to watch the finale. That was also a mistake.

 

[Henchmen21]

I guess I'm LTTP, but the Best of Both Worlds bluray has an exclusive documentary and commentary? Why would they do this if not to be total assholes?

Edit: Also, watching the S3 episode "Who Watches the Watchers", it's incredible how anti-religion the show could be. Picard basically says that having religious belief is akin to going back to the Dark Ages... given how everything has been so "spiritual" in science fiction lately, it's refreshing to see a show basically declare that science is rational and religion isn't.

Paramount is notorious in trying to dick over the fans like that. They're doing it again with Redemption Pts. I & II.

And "Who Watches the Watchers" is excellent if for nothing else than Ron Jones superb score. Watch the scene were Picard first beams Nuria up to the Enterprise. The score is beautiful when he tries to explain to her that he isn't a god.

Yeah, Voyager slowly neutered the Borg. I'd also love to know what happened to the Borg resistance from Unimatrix Zero--in my head-canon, they slowly fight a losing war and fall to infighting when some decide to use the same tactics as the Borg to survive. Like many things Voyager did with the Borg, there was some promise that was immediately forgotten (basically only the Borg children did anything interesting story-wise.)




I thought that the portrayal of the Bajorans and their belief system was pretty excellent for most of the show's run. Then we got "Reckoning", replete with good-guy/bad-guy energy faceoff, Kai Winn and Dukat turned into cartoon villains, and the Book of Nonsensical Plot-Device reared its ugly head. Things just stopped making any sense.

Watching BSG, I kind of got the feeling that the only reason the spiritual bullcrap didn't get worse in DS9 was because there were other people to reign him back in. I simply couldn't get any further than ten episodes from the series finale before I gave up on BSG. And then I somehow convinced myself to watch the finale. That was also a mistake.

First Contact neutered the Borg first. The whole concept of a Queen works against the purpose of a collective intelligence.

 

[Felix Lighter]

Holy shit. Another entire episode devoted to Vic Fontaine. Season 7 of DS9 has been really disappointing so far.

I don't hate the character and his episodes aren't necessarily all bad but this is the final season and it feels like every other episode is spent in the holo suite. If his episodes would have been spread across the entire series I'd probably enjoy the occasional change of pace.

 

[firehawk12]

Yeah, and to think DS9 was only a few years later.

God, yeah. lol

Paramount is notorious in trying to dick over the fans like that. They're doing it again with Redemption Pts. I & II.

Yeah, as fun as it was to go watch it in the theater, I'm not going to bother if they're just going to release the disc on its own with exclusive features. It's such a dick move.

And "Who Watches the Watchers" is excellent if for nothing else than Ron Jones superb score. Watch the scene were Picard first beams Nuria up to the Enterprise. The score is beautiful when he tries to explain to her that he isn't a god.

It's funny how much I'm discovering about the score now that I'm rewatching early Trek. For me, TNG was always Dennis McCarthy. Go figure.

 

[maharg]

Holy shit. Another entire episode devoted to Vic Fontaine. Season 7 of DS9 has been really disappointing so far.

If there's a Star Trek hell it's a holodeck where Vic Fontaine and Neelix host a variety show and you're not allowed to ever leave.

 

[lastplayed]

If there's a Star Trek hell it's a holodeck where Vic Fontaine and Neelix host a variety show and you're not allowed to ever leave.

While a clip show of all the bad episodes is on a constant loop.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

If there's a Star Trek hell it's a holodeck where Vic Fontaine and Neelix host a variety show and you're not allowed to ever leave.

And "Code of Honor" is on constant repeat.

 

[Fuchsdh]

It's funny how much I'm discovering about the score now that I'm rewatching early Trek. For me, TNG was always Dennis McCarthy. Go figure.

McCarthy has some great music in Trek too, it's just that they sort of become sonic wallpaper as it goes on.

Ron Jones' success in Trek is partly because he would have to wring drama and interest out of some really bad early season TNG. Watch "Shades of Grey" for a good example.

Spoiler

Don't watch Shades of Grey, just take my word for it.

 

[lastplayed]

Now that I've finished Season 2 of TNG one of the highlights has to be Dr Pulaski. She had some good moments and seemed like a pretty integral part of the crew for a while. It's a shame she was mostly ignored for the rest of the series and in just about every convention and reunion I've seen on YouTube.

Did Diana Muldaur have issues returning? Or did she just never get the call?

 

[Fuchsdh]

Now that I've finished Season 2 of TNG one of the highlights has to be Dr Pulaski. She had some good moments and seemed like a pretty integral part of the crew for a while. It's a shame she was mostly ignored for the rest of the series and in just about every convention and reunion I've seen on YouTube.

Did Diana Muldaur have issues returning? Or did she just never get the call?

She has at times had critical things to say about the show, but it's hard to say whether she disliked the show or the way she was voted off the island (in as far as fan opinion; there's never really been solid or reliable info as far as I know on whether or not she was fired, let go, she left on her own volition, etc.)

 

[GungHo]

Insofar as that's true, it only makes sense that people who've known each other for several decades are closer friends than people who've known each other for a couple of years. Even at the start of TOS they'd known each other longer than they've known each other in the Abramsverse, afaik.

Them growing to trust each other and to become, especially in the first movie, was one of the major arcs of the story, though admittedly McCoy was pushed to the background.

These social commentaries are not a major point in the story, and they certainly aren't any recognizable themes with the film. They're executed clumsily at best.

The Abramsverse clearly isn't about social commentary, then again, neither were the TNG movies, except for Generations, unless there's some sort of plastic surgery angle that F Murray Abraham was trying to provide as Major Stretchyface, Lord of Cenobites.

Spock in V is infinitely more likable than Quinto Spock. I really don't like his version.

Leonard Nimoy is a much better actor, no question. I explain to myself that Quinto's Spock is a little more wild because he didn't have the length of time on Vulcan that his predecessor had, either before or after the 5-year mission, and saw his civilization and family die. That in and of itself has addled him. Frankly, given this Spock's lack of control, I imagine the Amok Time movie will end with Kirk being dismembered and cannibalized in front of a horrified McCoy.

 

[Tucah]

Now that I've finished Season 2 of TNG one of the highlights has to be Dr Pulaski. She had some good moments and seemed like a pretty integral part of the crew for a while. It's a shame she was mostly ignored for the rest of the series and in just about every convention and reunion I've seen on YouTube.

I also just finished up season 2 and although I didn't like her much at first (mostly because of her attitude towards Data at the beginning), she grew on me tremendously and I really grew to like her by the end, especially her moments with Worf. This is my first time watching the show - does she not appear at all after the second season?


Anyway, season 2 was much better than the first - as mentioned, Pulaski was a nice new addition, Whoopi as Guinan provided some pretty good moments and it finally had some genuinely fantastic episodes (Measure of a Man, Q Who?). Time Squared was another one of my favorites of the season - the ending with

Spoiler

Picard shooting his future/alternate self

was excellent. The crew finally seemed to come together this season with every character getting their fair share of time (and it seemed like there was less Wesley and when he did show up he was a bit less obnoxious than in the first season). Too bad the season had to go out on that fucking horrendous clip show episode. Goddamn. Onward to season 3!

 

[GungHo]

Certain you've heard/read this many times, but Season 3 is where "it gets good", though there are a disturbing number of kidnappings which underline a serious issue with Starfleet Security.

My liked episodes include
Who Watches the Watchers
The Enemy
The Defector (well, at least James Sloyan's performance)
A Matter of Perspective
Yesterday's Enterprise
Sins of the Father
Tin Man
Hollow Pursuits (a.k.a. What You Would Actually Do With a Holodeck)
Sarek
Best of Both Worlds

My least liked episodes include
The Survivors
Booby Trap (a.k.a. The Character Assassination of Geordi LaForge by the Coward The Holodeck)
The Offspring
Menage a Troi

Special Mention
The Bonding features Ronald Moore's first Trek work


And, no... Pulaski's gone. I don't even think they mention her again.