funkystudent
Member
Maybe someone boned a Klingon along the way and that DNA got mixed into the gene pool.
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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN
- Thread starter The Librarian
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Maybe someone boned a Klingon along the way and that DNA got mixed into the gene pool.
They did apparently trade their cloaking tech for some Klingon ships...
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Going even further, wasn't it also implied there's some kind of tie between Humans and Vulcans? Like, we're related somehow and by that, I don't mean by the Ancient Humanoids who seeded the galaxy. I mean more of a direct connection/relation.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Spock mentions something about Sargon's people colonizing Vulcan and Earth in "Return to Tomorrow".
So I guess he might be implying that the Seeders gave rise to Sargon's Race, which in turn colonized and intermingled with both Humans and Vulcans.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Don't.
It's nonsense and all we know is that at least Earth doesn't use money and everyone apparently works or lives for the "greater good" of things or whatever. There's apparently no economy in the Prime universe Earth. I've asked about how it works and nobody really ever knows. I guess due to near unlimited resources or whatever, people can just decide to sit around and do nothing or pursue their own personal artistic or intellectual goals while living just as good as everyone else. What stops Tom Paris from going into a bar and ordering as many beers as he wants without ever worrying about paying for it? None of it makes sense and it was Roddenberry's idea of a utopian future which nowadays is unrealistic. I guess that's why Abrams has stated that the Alternate Universe does indeed have a currency system.
I don't think it's all that unreasonable.
There's a great line in Bioshock about how you can't build your own utopia predicated on being exceptional, because someone still has to scrub the toilets. But that's not an issue in a world like Star Trek where you live in a world where you can replicate anything you can program. We can hardly fathom that kind of world because it does seem so far away from our current society but we're already seeing the very beginnings of it in small ways with things like digital media and 3D printing.
(To me there can only be two theoretical constraints--space, and energy. The energy thing doesn't seem to be any issue except on things like ships. Assuming that the Trek world follows current sociological trends I'm assuming space isn't an issue, there's plenty of room for everyone. However living in a world with no currency does make me wonder how things like apartment hunting in NYC would work out. Do you lend out a room to the person you like the most or something?)
In sort, I'm saying that there are a lot of potential issues with the Trek economy, but we're starting at a disadvantage; we're born into a world where there is literally no other example to look to.
It's probably more realistic and almost certainly closer to now than it was then, imo. We're rapidly approaching a point where near-full employment may not be viable, and when we get there there will have to be some serious changes to our economy.
Read some Iain M Banks culture stuff. When it costs you nothing to serve a beer why would you charge?
Replicators and near-unlimited living space across thousands of planets remove the need for currency based economics... for everything else there's Latinum.
SeventhSon
Member
Why would you serve?
SpoonyBard
Banned
As a hobby. To meet people. And if there aren't enough people doing it, just make some droids to do it.
The in-universe explanation is that instead of using copper wiring carrying alternating current to power stuff we use plasma conduits carrying super-heated plasma instead. It's be like if each individual console was powered by an internal combustion engine and there were little pipes carrying petrol to them all.
You'll notice that it hardly ever happens in TNG as they didn't have the budget for it. And even funnier if the ship gets hit in the rear the back console explodes, hit on the port side the left console explodes, etc.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
That's basically my issue.
Someone's still got to maintain the computers and robots as we see. And of course, we know that exploration and Starfleet is still run by humans (and others). I suppose in a world with literally unlimited resources it is very possible but I wonder how they determine things like who gets an apartment and who gets a house. If you just wanted to lay around, can you get away with doing nothing or does the Earthgov force you to work?
SeventhSon
Member
In the Star Trek future, everyone is a trustafarian.
Why would they force you to work? On what?
I always assumed it was caused by some kind of power surge.
As for questions about the Federation economy this provides a pretty good analysis.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/economy.htm
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Because they don't want everyone being lazy and not contributing to the "greater good" of mankind? I mean, we see lots of people working in the ST universe even outside of Starfleet. You rarely.... Hell, you pretty much never see androids or robots doing work except maybe Data in TNG. Plus, there's all the moral and ethical implications of doing that assuming they are "aware" types of AI. Again, you still need people to occasionally work on the machines that do the work. That's quite a bit of maintenance.
However, we've seen little of civilian life except for maybe an episode or two of Voyager and Into Darkness (which doesn't count since Abrams already said that universe does have a currency system).
Why shouldn't they want everyone to be lazy? In a world where computers are both smarter and more capable than humans, there isn't really any purpose to preventing laziness. A very small portion of society would be necessary to perform maintenance. This is the thing about the current trend of industrialization, any given good you can imagine takes a tenth the people to produce as it used to, and there's really no reason to think that trend won't continue. Productivity rises and rises and hours worked drops and drops.
I think DS9 is actually the only place we see much human civilian life, and it seems pretty damn idle. Colonial life seems more active, but that's people who've chosen to be there.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I wonder what people do with their time then?
I guess pursue intellectual, philosophical and artistic pursuits. Play their version of World of Starfleet in Holodecks. Have sex all day. Does regular alcohol exist on Earth? None of that Synthehol stuff for those wanting to get trashed all day.
Just saw this on the ST FB....
LOL.
I'm pretty sure regular alcohol exists. I think Synthehol is just a star fleet non alcoholic substitute because drinking on the job is still a bad idea.
Henchmen21
Banned
Yes real alcohol does exist in ST. Yes synthohal is for when officers are on duty. Guinan even kept real alcohol in Ten Forward on the D.
Not to mention Picard's family still owned and operated a vineyard.
Not to mention Picard's family still owned and operated a vineyard.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Halloween Trek! Let's talk about it.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Night_Terrors_(episode)
This was such a great episode and legitimately had one of the creepiest scenes in a Star Trek episode, maybe even TV itself
An outstanding episode that all Trekkies/Trekkers will want to see before or on All Hallow's Eve.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Night_Terrors_(episode)
This was such a great episode and legitimately had one of the creepiest scenes in a Star Trek episode, maybe even TV itself
Beverly Crusher in the morgue.
Halloween Trek! Let's talk about it.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Night_Terrors_(episode)
This was such a great episode and legitimately had one of the creepiest scenes in a Star Trek episode, maybe even TV itselfAn outstanding episode that all Trekkies/Trekkers will want to see before or on All Hallow's Eve.Beverly Crusher in the morgue.
Don't think I've actually seen that one (I've never gotten around to doing a full Trek run-through.) Will have to queue it up on Netflix on the 'morrow.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I would consider it to be one of my favorite TNG episodes and found it to be quite memorable. Personal classic. Very good episode with some legitimately good chills. Hell, this episode of TNG was scarier than some of the so-called scary movies I've seen. Watch it with the lights out.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Star Trek doesn't really explain all this well, Culture novels do it so much better. In some episodes it seems like many people want to escape the boring Earth life and move to colonies for simpler or more rewarding life. And not just the space hippies in TOS.
Sure you could spend your >100 years drunk or high, but most people are smart enough even today to want something more of their life. And maybe people who contribute to society by working get some nice perks, like houses instead of apartments, more energy credits per month, or something like that...
I really doubt there's energy credits or anything like that. Post-scarcity means not rationing. Energy (and matter) would have to be free to all citizens or it wouldn't be anything worth aspiring to. It'd just be futuristic sovietism.
Really the only question is how land is managed. Possibly people are just generally more nomadic, since your things could be transported anywhere any time.
But really, in the end, I think Trek was right to keep away from trying to explain these things, since no answers to them have been worked out in the real world.
SpoonyBard
Banned
I think there must be some kind of limit on how much energy you can spend in a month, for example. Otherwise someone may go a bit mad and replicate their personal robot army in their basement and destroy the next couple of city blocks... Well, I don't know, it seems to me that Federation has not quite gotten to the free for all society it aspires to be.
Maybe the Federation operated like ISPs. You get unlimited energy but it's throttled after a certain point
Instigator
Banned
Halloween Trek! Let's talk about it.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Night_Terrors_(episode)
This was such a great episode and legitimately had one of the creepiest scenes in a Star Trek episode, maybe even TV itselfAn outstanding episode that all Trekkies/Trekkers will want to see before or on All Hallow's Eve.Beverly Crusher in the morgue.
Eyes... In the dark... One moon circles.
vas_a_morir
Banned
I was watching Heart of Glory today, and came up with this:
I was watching Heart of Glory today, and came up with this:
I lol'd.
Also, aside from Worf I really think the early TNG/TOS movie Klingons looked so much better. Less like lumpy randomness and more refined.
vas_a_morir
Banned
The character Martok shows how far they had come with the characterization and appearance of Klingons.
Furthermore, I can't understand why so many Klingons try to step to Worf. He has killed like the last 30 prominent Klingons who have challenged him, and yet they continue to treat him like he's a pussy.
Meanwhile, the klingons who treat him with respect get rewarded with the chancellorship. (Gowron, Martok) *shrugs*
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I brought up Star Trek Continues a while ago, but it looks like now they're doing a Kickstarter to try to get money:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/125377036/star-trek-continues-webseries
If Tim Russ can do it, I guess he can too? It all seems a bit suspect when "true" fans are able to make fan films without begging, while these semi-professionals need to beg fans for cash rather than put up their own money.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/125377036/star-trek-continues-webseries
If Tim Russ can do it, I guess he can too? It all seems a bit suspect when "true" fans are able to make fan films without begging, while these semi-professionals need to beg fans for cash rather than put up their own money.
vas_a_morir
Banned
They probably have grander ambitions for the episodes, I presume.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I don't deny that their episode looked good. But I don't think it was appreciably better than any of the other efforts. I mean, every fan film is shooting on Red Epics and everyone seems to have a decent TOS Bridge set.
vas_a_morir
Banned
I could see that. I haven't seen many of them, but can you think of a fan-made effort that was better?
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
This would be okay if it were a parallel universe, thus explaining why everyone looks different. I'm just not convinced this is the TOS crew by any stretch of the imagination. Abrams crew is far, far more efficient.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I can't remember is I've asked this before but here goes.
If the Abramsverse is only supposed to be like an alternate timeline from the point that Nero arrives, why does Khan look different than the Khan of the Prime Universe?
Ok, chime in and please try to avoid "because it's J J Abrams" or similar. I would like a good reason as to why this would be the case or even an official one, if such exists.
If the Abramsverse is only supposed to be like an alternate timeline from the point that Nero arrives, why does Khan look different than the Khan of the Prime Universe?
Ok, chime in and please try to avoid "because it's J J Abrams" or similar. I would like a good reason as to why this would be the case or even an official one, if such exists.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Pretty much everything is at least slightly different... I mean, how could Nero's action have such an inpact on where Enterprise was build or how the Klingons look. In universe explanation would probably be, that Nero travelled to a pareller universe that was already different somehow. Or Nero himself was from a pareller universe in a first place.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Nero was from the Prime Universe but I do like the explanation that Abrams was more of an actual alternate universe rather than just one created by a timeline change. That would explain a few things that were quite different that wouldn't have been caused by Nero's arrival.