He who is without sin, or whatever the worf on risa ep was.
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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN
- Thread starter The Librarian
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He who is without sin, or whatever the worf on risa ep was.
Even DS9 wasn't above making Worf look like a massive fun-sucking tool.
lastplayed
Member
lastplayed
Member
I know right.
Love it when he bursts out "EVIDENCE!!!"
Love it when he bursts out "EVIDENCE!!!"
SpoonyBard
Banned
Just saw Into Darkness for the first time. Not sure what to make of it... in a way it was better than the previous film, the plot was simply better, but then on the other hand it was just one action scene after another. And there were too many references to the original TOS movies, it almost felt that the film didn't have any new ideas of its own. And nowhere did the film feel like a Star Trek movie, it was much closer to Star Wars, and unfortunately not the original trilogy.
Rei no Otaku
Member
I think Dax came off far worse in that episode than Worf did.
Rei no Otaku
Member
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Henchmen21
Banned
Avery Brooks is probably the worst actor Trek ever had. Yes worse than Shatner. You can dislike the characters on Voyager for how badly written they were (and they were there's no doubt about it), but they at least put it good performances.
Brooks was wooden 90% of the time and when the few directors that could get him to emote, he went over the top with it in ways that made Shatner look like Laurence Olivier in comparison.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
I don't think I would say Brooks is a bad actor any more than I'd say Shatner is. The commonality I think is that both would rather act big when subtlety might be better. Still, you can't say they aren't entertaining.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Brooks was more of a theatrical actor, along the lines of Stewart. The difference being, that Stewart rarely got to show much emotion. Sisko was made to be a much more "human" character.
Rei no Otaku
Member
Rom is probably the luckiest guy on that show.
I kind of liked that DS9 dug into other races. And when people were saying they didn't like Profit and Lace I kept thinking they were talking about Profit and Loss.
Been rewatching and I'm halfway through season 3. Seasons 1 and 2 had a lot better episodes than I remember. And I'm loving the characters a lot more than I did. Honestly as great an addition as Worf was to the show, I don't think he added as much to it as I remember.
Also been rewatching, TNG, still working my was through season 2.
Been rewatching and I'm halfway through season 3. Seasons 1 and 2 had a lot better episodes than I remember. And I'm loving the characters a lot more than I did. Honestly as great an addition as Worf was to the show, I don't think he added as much to it as I remember.
Also been rewatching, TNG, still working my was through season 2.
Henchmen21
Banned
That's because he wasn't. Bringing Worf over was a cheap attempt at bringing over TNG fans since TNG had ended.
Yeah, but all in all I would judge it an effective one. Aside from some glaring issues, I think Moore was simply happier writing for Klingons, and I do think overall that Worf on DS9 is far more interesting a character than he was often allowed to be on TNG. Of course, we did probably get two or three too many "We're on a Klingon ship!" stories that were pretty bad.
Henchmen21
Banned
I disagree. The Worf of TNG would never talk back to a superior or kill a high ranking official of the klingon empire. The moment the character degradation that stood out the most for me was during First Contact. Worf would never threaten Picard (the "If you were any other man.." line). He idolized the man. That's when I realized that DS9 had ruined the character.
Henchmen21
Banned
Worf had already been ruined by DS9. That was just the tipping point for me.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Worf got to be a character in DS9. In TNG he was a prop.
Worf wasn't even doing anything out of character.
Picard was losing his shit. He was leading his crew to their deaths, and they, though frustrated, were willing to shut up and march towards death. Worf saw that something was clearly wrong, so he belayed Picard's command, and calmly told Picard what the best move was (based on what everyone around Picard was saying). The ship is a lost cause, so killing the crew in the hope of defeating the Borg and saving it is a bad idea, especially when they can evacuate, blow the ship, and defeat the Borg with no more loss of life.
Picard refuses to consider any other line of attack. Worf calmly suggests (with a hint of disgust) that he's letting his feelings get the better of him. Picard "realizes" that the reason Worf is saying these things is not because Picard is doing anything wrong, but because Worf is a whiny little bitch. Picard should know exactly what buttons he's pushing by calling Worf a coward. Worf says "If you were any other man, I'd kill you where you stand." That's explicitly not a threat. Worf does idolize Picard, which is why he will let Picard say these things to him. But he needs Picard to know that he just crossed a line.
Picard tells Worf to get off his bridge, and that's the end of it. Picard will not listen to reason, and the crew will not mutiny, not against Captain Picard, not even if he's clearly losing his shit (technically, Beverly should have relieved him on medical grounds).
It takes a civilian to push Picard the rest of the way, until Picard is forced to realize that he really is losing his shit over this incident.
SeventhSon
Member
It was Picard who was out of character (in all the movies), as perfectly pointed out by Plinkett.
lastplayed
Member
Oh yeah Picard did that on purpose all right. Even Dr Crusher saw it.
Rei no Otaku
Member
I was also going to state how it's exactly because Worf idolizes Picard that he makes that statement, but Cheerilee said it far better than me.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Well, Picard was definitely out of character, unless the character he was supposed to be playing was literally Ahab, but I think Worf would have been the one member of the crew who would happily have followed Picard to death and glory. In that scene Worf took the role that Riker or Troi would normally have done, but they were on the surface of the planet already (And apparently Beverly Crusher wasn't important enough character).
Worf accepted dishonor for the good of the Empire.
Worf personally killed a member of the High Council... inside the Council Chamber... while Council was in session.
Gowron foolishly engaged one of his own allies in a fight to the death, killing his opponent thanks to interference from Worf. (Now the war... can continue.)
Worf bitched about Gowron behind his back and called him unfit to rule.
Worf openly betrayed Gowron and supported the Clone of Klingon Jesus.
Following that, it's not out of line to say that (DS9 spoilers)
Gowron eventually took Worf's honor away again for refusing to quit Starfleet.
Worf once found the Sword of Klingon Jesus, but he threw it away again afterwards, cause it messed with his head.
Gowron got jealous and paranoid of Martok (Worf's only true Klingon friend, and the man who gave Worf back his honor by adopting him) and was plotting to destroy him. And that, for the good of the Empire and for the safety of his best friend, Worf encouraged Martok to stand up to Gowron, and since Martok wouldn't do it, Worf did it for him.
Worf once found the Sword of Klingon Jesus, but he threw it away again afterwards, cause it messed with his head.
Gowron got jealous and paranoid of Martok (Worf's only true Klingon friend, and the man who gave Worf back his honor by adopting him) and was plotting to destroy him. And that, for the good of the Empire and for the safety of his best friend, Worf encouraged Martok to stand up to Gowron, and since Martok wouldn't do it, Worf did it for him.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Didn't Worf kill Duras on board Duras' ship, not the council chamber?
If there's a weakness to the Klingons it's that the writers have always struggled to make them more than one-note warriors, but this is to various ends. One one hand you have the machismo "death is better than dishonor" tack, but then you have the (in my opinion more interesting) factor of what you'll do to win isn't the same as what's honorable, and whether or not it's better to die a pointless death in battle or live to fight another day.
Worf's actions in First Contact seem completely reasonable for me. He's leading the fight against the Borg, he heads out to nuke the deflector dish, he's getting his fill of Borg, but he's also aware they're losing ground and men for nothing, and tactically they're out of options.
(As a side note, I kind of like the lines they give Worf where he explains how they adapt to the weapons, because when he says stuff like "we'll have three shots", they only get one shot off and they've adapted right after. It sets a certain expectation in the audience that gets subverted, and underlines how dangerous they are.)
As for Duras, Worf killed him on Duras' ship, and it was a-okay by the Klingons law-wise.
There were terrible Worf episodes in DS9 but I felt like it really brought him into his own where he usually got shat on every flipping day on TNG.
Incorrect pronated hand posture on dinosaurs in 2013? Jeezus.
Just checked and yeah, you're right. I had remembered Klingons basically saying "Hmm... seems fair, we're going to allow this" and assumed it was the Council, not Duras' own people on his own ship.
SeventhSon
Member
That Worf video reminds me of the horrific crime DS9 and that monster Bashir commited against Kurn.
My favorite part of the Kurn episode is where Worf tells him he has no family (I guess that snot-nosed Alexander doesn't count.)
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Star Trek Online is bringing the Voth into the game and this is one of the screenshots that came out showing their profile against some of their other... equipment. Looks familiar?
I love that image so much.
Sort of coincidentally, just rewatched "Distant Origin" again. I dunno if it was bad writing in later seasons, Beltran just didn't give a crap at that point, or a combination of the two, but he has to carry entire pages in this one and Chakotay doesn't suck.