Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I know I posted this in the 'new series' thread but I thought it was worth quoting here since it's how I feel about the Abrams Trek.
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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN
- Thread starter The Librarian
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Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I blame the books for basically suggesting an explanation for the old Klingons and then Manny Coto for making it canon in Enterprise.
I blame the books for basically suggesting an explanation for the old Klingons and then Manny Coto for making it canon in Enterprise.
Hey I thought they did a pretty good job with the explanation
Hey I thought they did a pretty good job with the explanation
Yeah, it was a pretty good way of doing it. Loved the Augments tie-in.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Worf's 15 second joke was a better explanation than a multipart Enterprise episode...
My reasoning is--they actually incorporated fan theories into it, it wasn't totally bizarre ("As service to Moloch we were forced to sacrifice our ridges, that is until we renegotiated our mortgage on Qo'nos") and actually was in service to the story rather than "let's just get this out of the way".
firehawk12
Subete no aware
For me, it's almost like when Voyager tried to explain the Q Continuum. Nothing they could come up with would be as good as anything just left to the imagination.
" I can't tell! their physiology is entirely different from humans!"
Meanwhile they look exactly the same but have a scar on their cheek. Plus you can tell exactly how pregnant she is by listening to the baby.
The Tos Klingon thing is so dumb. Should've just left it as a joke. How did the Romulans look on TOS?
Meanwhile they look exactly the same but have a scar on their cheek. Plus you can tell exactly how pregnant she is by listening to the baby.
The Tos Klingon thing is so dumb. Should've just left it as a joke. How did the Romulans look on TOS?
SpoonyBard
Banned
Looked better that way, imo. By the end of TNG the forehead ridges on romulans had gotten absurd.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Yeah, they already had the cool Vulcan ear thing going, it should have been enough.
I think the Human-looking Klingons in TOS weren't something that people should pay attention to. It's 1960's TV, and we need human actors to relate to the characters somehow. It's suspension of disbelief.
TNG made the Klingons look better, and adjusted how they act. It doesn't make for consistent continuity, but it makes the show better, so who cares?
DS9 proved that they're not taking everything super-seriously by diving into the inconsistency headfirst, and making a joke about it. (Edit: Also, it wasn't a mean-spirited joke, which is important.)
I think Enterprise made a mistake by providing an answer, because it smells of superfans who can't handle flaws in the continuity. Although Enterprise did do an okay job with the explanation, and those episodes were some of Enterprise's best (which isn't saying all that much).
Romulans = Vulcans (they're cousins)
For reference, this is what a TOS Vulcan looks like.
Starting in TNG, they gave the Romulans some extra forehead ridges (just a little), because forehead ridges can make anyone more alien.
In Abrams-Trek, they took away the forehead ridges and gave them shaved heads and facial tattoos.
TNG made the Klingons look better, and adjusted how they act. It doesn't make for consistent continuity, but it makes the show better, so who cares?
DS9 proved that they're not taking everything super-seriously by diving into the inconsistency headfirst, and making a joke about it. (Edit: Also, it wasn't a mean-spirited joke, which is important.)
I think Enterprise made a mistake by providing an answer, because it smells of superfans who can't handle flaws in the continuity. Although Enterprise did do an okay job with the explanation, and those episodes were some of Enterprise's best (which isn't saying all that much).
Romulans = Vulcans (they're cousins)
For reference, this is what a TOS Vulcan looks like.
Starting in TNG, they gave the Romulans some extra forehead ridges (just a little), because forehead ridges can make anyone more alien.
In Abrams-Trek, they took away the forehead ridges and gave them shaved heads and facial tattoos.
Yep. I think Romulans work best as simply "evil Vulcans". If they must do anything, a goatee would be fine.
You know if they had executed it better I'm pretty sure I would have been fine with the Q continuum in Voyager. I kind of like the idea that it would be essentially incomprehensible to humans that it would turn into something totally anachronistic as a way of explaining it. Everything fell off the wagon after that (I have a rifle therefor I can hurt a Q?) but I don't think the continuum was the issue there.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
The Klingons got their modern makeover starting all the way back with Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
Not in terms of personality.
SpoonyBard
Banned
The Klingon look from ST3 on is definitely an improvement (The Motion Picture look wasn't quite as good, but it was close), but the way they started acting in TNG was not. I think The Errand of Mercy is still the best Klingon ep, because the Klingons acted in a ruthless and realistic way, and not speaking about their honor system in every other sentence. In ST3 they were also great. ST6, well... it was still good, but the Klingons were bit like caricatures, not quite like real people.
Well, honestly I also liked some of the early TNG Klingon episodes, but later on it seems like the writers fell too much in love with the Klingon lore, and started overdoing everything. Things went really bad during DS9 and Voyager... maybe Enterprise wasn't as bad tho, I even liked "the explanation".
lastplayed
Member
Kruge is one of my favourite Klingons.
Kruge is one of my favourite Klingons.
Star Trek III: The Most Use of Methacyl You'll See In A Movie
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I guess if you think about it, the Enterprise explanation was perfect. It explains why Worf is ashamed and embarrassed to discuss it.
Though it was so stupid and given Enterprise was there, it would no doubt be in the history books.
Though it was so stupid and given Enterprise was there, it would no doubt be in the history books.
benjipwns
Banned
I liked Death Wish's setup pretty well especially because they didn't try to explain everything, it was weird and was clearly presenting how "boring" Q and Quinn were supposed to find it. Unfortunately, how well that episode worked probably encouraged them to go back to that well and inside the continuum and just keep fucking everything up. Voyager had that problem a lot.
Oh, we've all been the scarecrow! Big deal!
eot
Banned
It's been ages since I watched Star Trek, but I decided to rewatch Voyager. I didn't know people hated it so much, when I watched it as a kid it was just more Star Trek. I understand the criticisms though, there's very little continuity between episodes, at least half the crew is boring and premise of the show is largely ignored. On the other hand I don't think it's entirely fair to judge it based on what it isn't. I like stories with an insane attention to detail (like ASoIaF) but that doesn't mean I can't like ones without it. The crew members that I do like (the Doctor, 7of9, Tuvok) I like a lot, enough to make me want to keep watching. Or maybe I'm just nostalgic.
I would say I like Janeway too, but I think I just like the actor. Janeway the character is a bit hard to nail down. There's one episode where Tuvok talks about how the plot should follow naturally from the characters, which almost felt like self-satire because with Janeway it's the opposite. Anyway, I still tend to enjoy most scenes with her. Belanna can be an alright character too, but usually not when she's just doing engineering stuff.
I'm up to season 5 now and I think it's improving slowly. Even Neelix is less annoying now. "Timeless" was pretty great, probably my favourite episode so far. I actually liked the holodeck-WWII episode too even though it's stupid. Stupid can be fun. I won't say the show is great, but I still like it. Besides, I've never thought of any Star Trek stuff as legitimately great, it's always been a mix of awful and good at the same time. Haven't watched DS9 though, maybe I'll do that eventually.
I would say I like Janeway too, but I think I just like the actor. Janeway the character is a bit hard to nail down. There's one episode where Tuvok talks about how the plot should follow naturally from the characters, which almost felt like self-satire because with Janeway it's the opposite. Anyway, I still tend to enjoy most scenes with her. Belanna can be an alright character too, but usually not when she's just doing engineering stuff.
I'm up to season 5 now and I think it's improving slowly. Even Neelix is less annoying now. "Timeless" was pretty great, probably my favourite episode so far. I actually liked the holodeck-WWII episode too even though it's stupid. Stupid can be fun. I won't say the show is great, but I still like it. Besides, I've never thought of any Star Trek stuff as legitimately great, it's always been a mix of awful and good at the same time. Haven't watched DS9 though, maybe I'll do that eventually.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I made a recent thread asking about that. Still gotta get off my ass and start watching the rest of season 1.
Having watched most of the episodes of Voyager about a year ago, I actually do understand the criticisms. Before, when I had only seen a few, I didn't. Something about it seems a bit off and some of the episodes are downright terrible such as Threshold, the one where the Q Continuum becomes an American Civil War battleground and degenerating Species 8472 into another 'shape shifting to humans' episode (the one with the training grounds.... really?) I do like they took a little more effort in introducing some stranger aliens, however.
Lucky Forward
Member
Romulans = Vulcans (they're cousins)
Fun fact: They gave those Romulan extras gold helmets to save the expense of creating pointed ear appliances for them.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Fun fact: They gave those Romulan extras gold helmets to save the expense of creating pointed ear appliances for them.
But on the other hand, no expenses were saved on eye-makeup.
SeventhSon
Member
eot
Banned
I decided to watch Into Darkness, not my kind of movie at all and that's fine, I just don't get why it's a Star Trek movie. I mean, I know why, but I wish it were called something else and I just hope that if they make a new TV series these movies don't influence that in any way. If people like the movies (which seems to be the case) that's great for them, but it could be any random sci-fi setting and it wouldn't make a difference. The things that define Star Trek are so downplayed you wonder why they're even there. It's even weirder when they remix old scenes; why reference the thing you're actively rejecting in every second of the movie?
Baleoce
Member
Never really thought about this before but.. why is Worf at tactical in every TNG movie? Do they just tell the other guy "look dude... this guy is pretty much the shit.. so if you could you know.. piss off for a bit.. Go replicate us a cuppa or something.. Earl Grey, Hot.". I know the obvious answer, fanservice. It just makes me laugh that there's this person who is presumably just twiddling their thumbs throughout those films.
I'm sure it was a great bit of self-esteem boosting to the weapons officer on board the E during First Contact that a badly injured officer they've just rescued is more competent than you. "We could use some help at tactical... Thanks, Jerry."
Baleoce
Member
And what's more, they don't even try to script it in. They just pretend like they don't have a tactical officer on board at all, for 4 films xD
Different plants could lead to changes in physiology I suppose. Romulus looks fairly Earth-like whilst Vulcan is arid and has heavier gravity.
funkystudent
Member
Was the vulcan / romulan ancestry link / split ever explained?
That always seemed a little dumb.
That always seemed a little dumb.
Colonists who left Vulcan for whatever reason before/during the social upheaval that came with Vulcan's move towards logic.
They set up camp relatively close to Vulcan, and they didn't want to be followed so they wiped their tracks when they left. And from their new homeworld, they built new ships with a non-Vulcan appearance and fought at least one war with Humans, calling a truce with them without ever revealing their identity.
After the Romulans developed a working cloak and a big gun, they tried to make another move against Humanity again, but they were beaten and exposed by Kirk, and then their cloaking technology got stolen by Spock, so they agreed to a treaty in which they don't try to conquer any more Federation turf, and the Humans/Vulcans agree not to beat the snot out of them. Also, the Federation essentially gives back the cloaking tech (can't put the genie back in the bottle, but they can agree not to use what they learned).
Then Picard spent some time trying to be the bigger man and win the trust and respect of the Romulans while they schemed to beat him somehow, and Spock spent some time trying to rebuild some family bridges between the Vulcans and the angry ex-Vulcans. And then Star Trek 2009 didn't happen.
Exactly. We English retained the smooth foreheads while Americans developed ridges, presumably through interbreeding with the Dutch. Or something.
lastplayed
Member
Yeah but it's 2000 years difference and completely different planets. There will be some physical changes. OK so maybe forehead ridges is a bit extreme, but there are examples of humans who live in extreme environments having genetic differences.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Yep, episode Who Watches The Watchers
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Proto-Vulcan_humanoid
The did look more like Romulans than Vulcans tho...