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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
BrokenEchelon
Banned
She seems like a giant bitch (maybe happened when she got older), but god damn.
~~~
P.S. Is Dear Doctor the first legitimately good episode of Enterprise or was the solution simply to ensure the superior species never started some genocidal war against the inferior species.? (I watched it a few days ago so I forgot the name of the aliens).
Also, Archer's whole "some day there might be some sort of.........................DIRECTIVE about this" was walking the line between cheesy as fuck and cool.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Oh. :\
Maybe I'm trying to like Enterprise too hard.
Looks like some people liked it:
...And then people started hating it. They were probably trying to argue the non-interference angle and accidentally crossed over into the Social Darwinism as a result.
I don't remember it, which usually means at worst it was forgettable and pedestrian.
I tend to remember the really bad ones.
Yeah sometimes the Star Trek nerds will hate an episode for a theme rather than its actual quality as an episode. Which is fine I guess but seems tiresome for me. The Prime Directive can be a cold sonufabitch sometimes; it's not a perfect ideology and from a story standpoint that's part of the intent.
SF Debris "Dear Doctor" review.
http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated-reviews/ent-dear-doctor-review-5896615
SF Debris discusses the Prime Directive.
http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated-reviews/prime-directive-analysis-5638650
Both are required viewing, IMO.
http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated-reviews/ent-dear-doctor-review-5896615
SF Debris discusses the Prime Directive.
http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated-reviews/prime-directive-analysis-5638650
Both are required viewing, IMO.
Anything that invokes Tuvix as a good thing can't be trusted.
I will disagree.
GameplayWhore
Member
I like that both Voyager and Enterprise have an example of a truly polarizing episode.
I personally like Tuvix because the ending has a legitimately interesting dilemma, and while the solution was very much the wrong solution the episode did not present it as the right solution (this turned out to be a problem in much of Voyager after that and in Enterprise).
Anyway, are there episodes of TOS/TAS/TNG/DS9 which most people either really love or really hate in this very stark fashion?
I disagree that the episode didn't present it as the right solution. There are no negative consequences, aside from the Doctor's consciencious objection, and the crew seems perfectly happy with it.
Meanwhile a person begged for his life to a starfleet captain and she murdered him.
Fair enough.
What did everybody think about Cogenitor? That was probably Enterprise's other interference vs non-interference episode of note, though it didn't really have Prime Directive implications.
She killed him in order to save two others. I call that a bargain.
the best I ever haaadddd
Not saying it was a great choice, but I can certainly understand her position. I didn't like that we never really saw any ripples from that episode though, in terms of how the crew reacted to it down the line or in similar situations.
Would you sacrifice someone on the Altar of Science to get something you want?
Janeway: No, that's horrible.
Would you sacrifice someone on the Altar of Science to get a person you want?
Janeway: ... no, you can't just trade one person's life for another.
How about two people?
Janeway: Lemme go sharpen my snake-knife.
Janeway: No, that's horrible.
Would you sacrifice someone on the Altar of Science to get a person you want?
Janeway: ... no, you can't just trade one person's life for another.
How about two people?
Janeway: Lemme go sharpen my snake-knife.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I though Tuvix presented the decision as the wrong one. Janeway was clearly affected by it (even if forgotten the next episode).
Tuvok was also a close friend of Janeway. And she was fond of Nelix. So she chose them over Tuvix.
Do you think Kirk would not do the same thing if Spock and McCoy were fused in transport?
Dear Doctor glorifies the decision to leave a people to suffer and die rather than help them and passes it off as enlightened.
Tuvok was also a close friend of Janeway. And she was fond of Nelix. So she chose them over Tuvix.
Do you think Kirk would not do the same thing if Spock and McCoy were fused in transport?
Dear Doctor glorifies the decision to leave a people to suffer and die rather than help them and passes it off as enlightened.
Yeah, I think they did that part right. But the creepy thing was that they had Tuvix making friends throughout the entire episode, and then while he was begging for his life, he ran a gauntlet of looking towards his new friends for just a little bit of help, and none of them had that same sort of Janeway/Tuvok/Neelix relationship, but every single one of them agreed that Tuvix had to die now.
Edit: It made the crew seem like cold-blooded killers, and it missed an opportunity to highlight Janeway's own friendships. But it accomplished one of Voyager's #1 rules, no dissent, ever.
Spock and McCoy kind of did a similar thing with Good Kirk/Evil Kirk. Evil Kirk asserted his right to live (Good Kirk volunteered to die, and made the argument that the two of them would live on, together). And they sacrificed two people to regain the one they wanted.
Voyager even made the arguments that Tuvok would have probably volunteered to die, and suggested that the two of them lived on in Tuvix.
Henchmen21
Banned
Not sure how long this has been going on but Amazon.com has the TNG first season BR's for $39. Don't know how long that will last though.
Earlier this month, S1 was $45, and S2-4 were $50 each.
So S1 has dropped by five bucks, but S2 has shot up to $75.
If anyone's interested, just get S1 right now and keep an eye on the others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk4dfTnRH5I&NR=1
I want to know who she is talking about because it's hilarious.
I want to know who she is talking about because it's hilarious.
SpoonyBard
Banned
The guy who played Kim maybe? But could be many other people also...
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Wang or Beltran would be my guess, because those two were dicked over the the writers, and were told specifically by the producers NOT to be emotional. No one could have lifted those two roles up.
Sigh. My roommate was showing his girlfriend Star Trek Into Darkness, so I had to sit down and watch it again.
Everything falls apart as soon as the word "Khan" is uttered. It's a half-baked retread of all that was good from those movies ground into crap. Superhuman space blood, making repairing the Enterprise look even more ridiculous ("I know, we'll have him kick it!")--ranks down at the bottom of the heap with Nemesis and Insurrection. I'd rate Star Trek V above it just because it didn't destroy one of the greatest villains in its cheese.
Why couldn't they just make John Harrison *actually* John Harrison? You could have kept the whole Marcus-better war than losing the peace-angle and so much of it without all the convoluted nonsense.
FFS kick Orci and Kurtzman and Abrams to the curb and get someone competent for the 50th anniversary. The characters are good, the actors are solid, they're being screwed by their creatives.
Everything falls apart as soon as the word "Khan" is uttered. It's a half-baked retread of all that was good from those movies ground into crap. Superhuman space blood, making repairing the Enterprise look even more ridiculous ("I know, we'll have him kick it!")--ranks down at the bottom of the heap with Nemesis and Insurrection. I'd rate Star Trek V above it just because it didn't destroy one of the greatest villains in its cheese.
Why couldn't they just make John Harrison *actually* John Harrison? You could have kept the whole Marcus-better war than losing the peace-angle and so much of it without all the convoluted nonsense.
FFS kick Orci and Kurtzman and Abrams to the curb and get someone competent for the 50th anniversary. The characters are good, the actors are solid, they're being screwed by their creatives.
TrekGAF,
I just finished a re-watch of DS9.
Man, that show had some really good moments. And you could really see the groundwork being laid for a lot of what Ronald Moore carried over to BSG.
I guess the thing that stands out the most is how much the supporting cast carried the show. Garak, Quark, and Jeffrey Combs in his 50 different roles, and General Martok really kept the show interesting. I was tired of Avery Brooks and his melodramatic acting by the end, watching multiple episodes per day didn't help with that. But the rest of the main cast improved their acting quite a bit by the end. Especially Alexander Siddig and Nana Visitor - they were pretty lousy for the first couple of seasons but by the end they were probably my favorite characters from the main cast.
All in all I think DS9 might be my favorite ST series because they took on religion, politics, espionage, and they got a lot further into exploring the less than rosy sides of the Federation that were revealed (or hinted at) during TNG's run.
My only strong dislike with the way things went with the Dominion storyline was the introduction of the Breen as super duper bad guys from out of nowhere. There were better ways to reach the conclusion of the story.
I just finished a re-watch of DS9.
Man, that show had some really good moments. And you could really see the groundwork being laid for a lot of what Ronald Moore carried over to BSG.
I guess the thing that stands out the most is how much the supporting cast carried the show. Garak, Quark, and Jeffrey Combs in his 50 different roles, and General Martok really kept the show interesting. I was tired of Avery Brooks and his melodramatic acting by the end, watching multiple episodes per day didn't help with that. But the rest of the main cast improved their acting quite a bit by the end. Especially Alexander Siddig and Nana Visitor - they were pretty lousy for the first couple of seasons but by the end they were probably my favorite characters from the main cast.
All in all I think DS9 might be my favorite ST series because they took on religion, politics, espionage, and they got a lot further into exploring the less than rosy sides of the Federation that were revealed (or hinted at) during TNG's run.
My only strong dislike with the way things went with the Dominion storyline was the introduction of the Breen as super duper bad guys from out of nowhere. There were better ways to reach the conclusion of the story.
I had no issue with the Breen being introduced, it was just bizarre that nothing really happened with them. They spent all this time saying "the Breen are not as they appear", wondering what they were like under the masks, pretending they were all shadowybut it was completely irrelevant to the plot. The only thing the Breen did was kick the plot three or four episodes further, piss off some Cardassians, and nuke the Defiant (to be reborn less than half a season later.)
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
The Breen seemed to be one of those things they were throwing at the wall to one-up themselves before the brass told them "hey, guys... you've got waaaay too many balls in the air. Simmer down."
Rhomega Beta
Member
Just watched The Lights of Zetar. Mira has some great thighs:
Anyway, SF Debris is in the middle of the Worst of the Worst series, counting down the worst of each series (minus TOS), plus a TOS movie, and TNG movie: http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/zworst.php
#6:
#5:
#4:
#3:
#2:
#1:
Anyway, SF Debris is in the middle of the Worst of the Worst series, counting down the worst of each series (minus TOS), plus a TOS movie, and TNG movie: http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/zworst.php
#6:
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
TNG: Code of Honor
Star Trek: Nemesis
DS9
rofit And Lace
rofit And LaceVOY: Threshold
ENT: A Night In Sickbay
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
The promotion was odd. Data and Worf have command shifts without Commander rank. Heck, even Ensign Kim on Voyager took command shifts.
Henchmen21
Banned
Data is second in command. If Picard & Riker get taken out he gets to run the ship. Plus he's Lieutenant Commander rank.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Troi was Lieutenant Commander too, wasn't she?
SeventhSon
Member
Troi held Lt. Commander rank as Ship's Councilor, but did not possess the full training or responsibilities of that rank. After passing her bridge officer's exam, she was allowed to take full duty shifts, and it is implied that she is now Data's senior officer, which is absurd. Data is Second Officer of Enterprise, so unless Picard demoted Data, he's still senior to Troi.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Well, she also got a promotion to full Commander, so she does outrank Data.
SeventhSon
Member
Ok, now I remember... that's what is entirely absurd about the whole matter, her honorary Lt. Commander is promoted to full Commander with just a Bridge Officer's Exam? Absurd!
Regardless, even rank of Commander doesn't dislodge Data from being Second Officer. Dr. Crusher is also Commander, for example. Another is that Lt. La Forge was put in command of the bridge by Picard, and there was no regulation forcing him to relinquish command to the then chief engineer during Arsenal of Freedom.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Well, getting put in charge of the bridge in a crisis is probably different from being able to be scheduled to command the bridge during an scheduled shift.
SeventhSon
Member
Which in turn is different from having seniority over the second officer without being the first officer or captain.
The whole matter was just wrong. :/
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
SeventhSon
Member
Poor O'Brien.
Those are beautiful. No wonder he jumped ship to DS9. "My life will get a whole lot worse, but at least I get to walk around!"
It does raise the point that Star Trek is stubbornly anachronistic when it comes to technology in a sense. They love computers doing work but they also keep it under the control of a fleshy meatbag at all times.
Rhomega Beta
Member
So a friend at work won this in a crane game and gave it to me:
Rank in Star Trek is fluid and often weird. I frankly think it's somewhat deliberate. I also find it funny that people got all upset about massive rank shifts in the new movies when they've been there all along.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Are people really upset that Janeway got promoted to admiral before Picard? I don't like the character, but even then you just have to admit that she deserved the promotion after keeping her crew alive (mostly) for that 7 year trip. And Picard has probably made it clear, that he prefers to have his own ship as long as possible before before taking position as an admiral...
Riker's career suicide is also by choice.
She's the one who stranded her crew.
She deserved a week-long welcome home party (which we never got to see, because the show sucked), and then plenty of R&R. And after she was fully rested, she deserved a very long debriefing, which would have exposed plenty of reasons for court martial (which would probably be swept under the rug by Starfleet), and very few reasons for promotion. After which, she probably should've been offered early retirement, perhaps with unrestricted access to her increasingly-obsolete ship on mental health grounds.
She's out of the loop regarding any current political situations in Starfleet, and never showed any reason why she should command other starship Captains. The only reason to promote her (besides her gift of Temporal Prime Directive-violating Batman shields, which promise to crush the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant) is her Delta Quadrant-specific experience. She's qualified to lead Starfleet back into the Delta Quadrant (this time with a lot more firepower and support), and she's qualified to lead Starfleet in a war against the Borg. That's why she got promoted. She is Evil Janeway, and Starfleet loves her.
One thing I thought the Destiny books did right was that Starfleet essentially kept the special shielding and torpedoes only on special ships designed to perform hit and runs on the Borg to keep them from having a good chance to adapt to it and maximize its effectiveness.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Picard had been a captain for over 4 decades by the time Janeway got home and has saved the Federation several times.
He's also quite happy where he is.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Presumably being Captain of the flagship is as prestigious or more so than being an Admiral.
SpoonyBard
Banned
According to memory alpha, Janeway was made captain in 2365, and admiral in 2378. I don't think that's very unrealistic. Kirk was made admiral after commanding the Enterprise for just 5 years...
Rhomega Beta
Member
Which raises a question: What was Kirk doing between TOS and The Motion Picture?