biggersmaller
Banned
*reads observation lounge debate
*hugs internet
*hugs internet
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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
huh, just realized Spock made an appearance in TNG
Henchmen21
Banned
Yes. Unification Pts. I & II. Sarek was also in it. It also had small nods to VI which they were filming at the time.
SeventhSon
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRvVbwwRNAQ
Gene Roddenberry died shortly before the airing of Unification part 2, the episode began with a brief dedication.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Basically, Unification was meant as a way to get hype going for Star Trek VI and even dropped hints of what would happen in the movie too.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
So I'm re-watching Battlestar Galactica. I know Ronald Moore made the series, and his very short and disappointing time on Voyager led him to make it.
He basically went to make his own Science Fiction Show..
With Blackjack...
and hookers...
He basically went to make his own Science Fiction Show..
With Blackjack...
and hookers...
SeventhSon
Member
Ronald "Bending" Moore
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Ah I see. Also as a means to retire Sarek too it seems. Was there namedropping of Kirk or other characters in TNG in that ep?
StalkerUKCG
Banned
I love unification.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Spock mentions Kirk off hand, by virtue of talking about "cowboy diplomacy".
I believe the episode itself came around as part of the deal to get Nimoy back to do the movie.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Did Final Frontier piss everyone off enough to avoid a possible movie?
Escape Goat
Member
Unification was huge for Spock. Hed always been at odds with his father and they parted on bad terms. And then Sarek was dead and Spock would never understand him. Indult to injury, Sarek had mind melded with a human stranger. Vulcans dislike physical contact so to have done that with Picard was laying the resentment on thick. But, in the end Picard shares Sareks last thoughts and Spock finally got to be at peace with Sarek.
There isnt a lot of drama because its Vulcans. But look at the underlying subtext and its a powerful conclusion to Spocks character. Good stuff.
Also, the Android who seeks human emotion and the Vulcan who had rejected it was an interesting pairing. Id have liked to have seen more with those two interacting.
There isnt a lot of drama because its Vulcans. But look at the underlying subtext and its a powerful conclusion to Spocks character. Good stuff.
Also, the Android who seeks human emotion and the Vulcan who had rejected it was an interesting pairing. Id have liked to have seen more with those two interacting.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Yes. And Nimoy and another producer had to really fight hard to get a budget big enough for the move to even get made.
Tim Russ's fan movie has an official trailer now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjeX5drV9ms
Looks low budget but I'd give it a watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjeX5drV9ms
Looks low budget but I'd give it a watch
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
The last time they talked was in Final Frontier right?
Damn Shatner...
SpoonyBard
Banned
Looks cheap, stupid, and too focused on silly action scenes. I'll definitely watch it and complain aftetwards.
I think reading the trades of the time and his daughters' production diary about the book make it clear that Shatner takes a lot of the blame when it's not his fault, really. He finally got his shot at making his film at the absolute worst timethere was a writers strike, a teamsters strike, ILM was too busy to do the effects, and coming after Star Trek IV, the studio wanted a light, happy film with broad appealsomething that was likely not going to happen, and definitely couldn't be forced into the wrong story. Shatner certainly had his role to play in the film not turning out as well as it did, but I'd also say he didn't have the support Nimoy did that made his films a success, either (it also doesn't hurt if you're not in 4/5ths of your first movie to direct.)
Escape Goat
Member
I just watched All Good Things again and the way DeLancie and Stewart delivered their lines was telling. For all of Q's antagonistic attitude towards Picard, he has a genuine appreciation for Picard. And Picard, despite his perfectly understandable frustration, appreciates Q's interest in him.
Picard: Thank you.
Q: For what?
Picard: You had a hand in helping me get out of this.
Q: I had a hand in getting you into it. A directive from the continuum. The helping hand though? That was my idea.
As much as I'd liked to have seen Q in more Trek, his bookending the series couldn't have gone better.
Picard: Thank you.
Q: For what?
Picard: You had a hand in helping me get out of this.
Q: I had a hand in getting you into it. A directive from the continuum. The helping hand though? That was my idea.
As much as I'd liked to have seen Q in more Trek, his bookending the series couldn't have gone better.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
You know, the most apocryphal Star Trek 6 story is that Kim Cattrall took a naked photo on the set of the Enteprise and used it to try to seduce NImoy. lol
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Uhhhh... LOL.
benjipwns
Banned
It's amazing how good All Good Things... is and how bad Generations is when they were written at the same exact time by the two same exact people.
Only Generations had a massive list of studio requirements for the plot.
The story told in Cinefantastique is that Cattrall took nude photos on the bridge for a magazine, and Nimoy hit the roof when he heard and destroyed them. He's publicly denied it happened at least once when asked about it at a convention.
SeventhSon
Member
All Good Things... is the sequel to Tapestry.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Haha, I guess it kept changing by the time the story got to me. lol
SeventhSon
Member
I did a search for the Cattrall story, which led me to reddit, which led me to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IURfntimnlA (what if Picard was Q?)
Here's all I know from it, copied from the source to Wikipedia:
Cattrall participated in a photo shoot on the empty Enterprise bridge, where she wore nothing but her Vulcan ears. The story claimed Nimoy personally ripped up all of the photographs and negatives when he learned about the unauthorized photo session, because he feared harm to the franchise if it ever came to light.
SeventhSon
Member
Spockblocked
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Say, what do political extremists in USA think of Star Trek?
Oh snap, Star Trek's my favorite thing ever. Glad to have found this topic. I look forward to discussing it with y'all.
Rewatching DS9 right now, my favorite show. Rewatching BSG and Stargate SG-1, too... I head back to my beloved space operas whenever I'm introducing them to someone new and I happen to have three separate friends who have been conned into starting these three shows. So anyway I guess I may post sporadic DS9 thoughts here from time to time if nothing else. I'm already up to 6x13 though.
Rewatching DS9 right now, my favorite show. Rewatching BSG and Stargate SG-1, too... I head back to my beloved space operas whenever I'm introducing them to someone new and I happen to have three separate friends who have been conned into starting these three shows. So anyway I guess I may post sporadic DS9 thoughts here from time to time if nothing else. I'm already up to 6x13 though.
"It goes too far."
"It doesn't go far enough."
Chuck from SF Debris has mentioned a few times that any time his reviews get anywhere near anything political, one side or the other (or bafflingly, both sides at the same time) will write to him and accuse him of being a shill for the other side.
Stargate SG1 is more popular with the right wing crazies, because it has guns and army boots and America fighting the Godless Heathens of Space, and it doesn't push the Commie Agenda quite as hard as Star Trek did (it sort of does a little, but nobody's perfect).
SG-1 also has O'Neill eye-rolling at the Russians pretty constantly, even though there's generally the message in there that they're not so bad after all.
It's kind of an odd study now that Russia's getting considerably more negative press again in recent years. It's the late 90's and early 2000's showing the 40's-to-50's Air Force man to forget the 70's, but you're watching it in the mid-2010's and Russia's this big demon again in more media than when the show aired.
It's kind of an odd study now that Russia's getting considerably more negative press again in recent years. It's the late 90's and early 2000's showing the 40's-to-50's Air Force man to forget the 70's, but you're watching it in the mid-2010's and Russia's this big demon again in more media than when the show aired.
SpoonyBard
Banned
They also nuked Moscow in one episode, which was nice. Alternate timeline tho.
lastplayed
Member
So I've got this monster coming in the mail.
Will be the biggest model kit I've ever attempted. Really hope I don't mess it up.
Thing is, it has a transparent bridge dome with detailed bridge inside (I plan to convert some 1/350 naval figures into Kirk and co), so it gives you the option to insert it facing forward, as designed, or on a slant to match the set design of the turbolift.
I have no idea which one to go for.
First world problems!
Will be the biggest model kit I've ever attempted. Really hope I don't mess it up.
Thing is, it has a transparent bridge dome with detailed bridge inside (I plan to convert some 1/350 naval figures into Kirk and co), so it gives you the option to insert it facing forward, as designed, or on a slant to match the set design of the turbolift.
I have no idea which one to go for.
First world problems!
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
whoa, it's an actual model kit, as in detailed like Bandai's stuff?
Ha, damn. I forgot that happened.
Star Trek is interesting because it's both amazingly liberal and conservative in different aspects. The whole "infinite diversity in infinite combinations" and tolerance bit is certainly liberal to our ethos, and depending on your view the Federation could definitely be the evil paternalistic Big Government.
On the other hand, people in Star Trek strongly treasure the past and past arts and culture, and in many ways it seems like the rugged individualist's dream"hey you've got food, water, and shelter. Everyone's equal to start, but if you wanna' captain a starship you've got to be better than all these people." If anything, I'd say Star Trek's future is the ultimate fulfillment of the United States' traditional "equality of opportunity" ethos.
I'd personally say that their approach to science and tech is fairly conservative toothey focus on technology outside the body rather than extreme modifications, and they eschew most genetic engineering aside from birth defects.
So I'm guessing while there are gay people in the 24th century, there aren't necessarily transgendered or intersex people?
On the other hand, people in Star Trek strongly treasure the past and past arts and culture, and in many ways it seems like the rugged individualist's dream"hey you've got food, water, and shelter. Everyone's equal to start, but if you wanna' captain a starship you've got to be better than all these people." If anything, I'd say Star Trek's future is the ultimate fulfillment of the United States' traditional "equality of opportunity" ethos.
I'd personally say that their approach to science and tech is fairly conservative toothey focus on technology outside the body rather than extreme modifications, and they eschew most genetic engineering aside from birth defects.
So I'm guessing while there are gay people in the 24th century, there aren't necessarily transgendered or intersex people?
The equality of opportunity/equality of outcome dichotomy is really only meaningful in the face of scarcity. Without scarcity they are essentially the same thing, and the Federation, at least up to late TNG/early DS9, was a post-scarcity society.
Anarcho-communism is probably the best fit of modern political-economic theory to what the Federation appears to be.
Alright, so, I promise not to spam this thread with these but as I mentioned in my first post I might occasionally post thoughts on DS9 episodes I rewatch with the latest friend I've introduced to the franchise.
Turns out we inadvertently skipped 6x12 last time somehow and I just want to comment that "Who Mourns for Morn?" is such a delicious culmination of the Morn gag. My friend is a huge fan of the character; I made sure to point him out for her a few times in the first season and from there she made it a point to play Where's Waldo with his cameos and laughed at every single reference to him since. I know Ira Steven Behr and his associates get flak for running somewhat wild with certain elements many fans didn't care for on occasion, but all those elements had their fan faction, and Morn is no exception. I was ten when DS9 ended, so I wasn't exactly surfing IRC chats and such for weekly reactions, but when I was a little older I combed the archives and found a considerable number of Niners complained about devoting an episode to Morn in the midst of the war. I'm not going to tell my friend, because man, she was so sad until the end of that beautiful episode.
Turns out we inadvertently skipped 6x12 last time somehow and I just want to comment that "Who Mourns for Morn?" is such a delicious culmination of the Morn gag. My friend is a huge fan of the character; I made sure to point him out for her a few times in the first season and from there she made it a point to play Where's Waldo with his cameos and laughed at every single reference to him since. I know Ira Steven Behr and his associates get flak for running somewhat wild with certain elements many fans didn't care for on occasion, but all those elements had their fan faction, and Morn is no exception. I was ten when DS9 ended, so I wasn't exactly surfing IRC chats and such for weekly reactions, but when I was a little older I combed the archives and found a considerable number of Niners complained about devoting an episode to Morn in the midst of the war. I'm not going to tell my friend, because man, she was so sad until the end of that beautiful episode.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I agree that the economic superstructure of the federation seems to be some sort of post-scarcity voluntarism so anarcho-communism might be a fit, but there are a few cases that I think maybe challenge this. We've seen a few scenarios throughout the franchise where the Federation seems to exert eminent domain; telling colonists they have to leave (the Maquis are probably the biggest example of this but it's also plot-of-the-week material elsewhere). We also know that there are some scarce resources for capital infrastructure like starships and starship fuel. After all, the federation does trade with non-federation entities, so presumably they want something. I think the shows have largely dodged pinning down the details of resolving this stuff in favour of big picture stuff.
It's also not clear to what extent the Federation is involved in or imposes restrictions on planetary or national governance. Like, can Federation planets be authoritarian? Can they have slavery? Do any of the federation planets have the death penalty (most of what I recall from episodes that broached the subject were non-federation planets)? I have to imagine they impose some sort of structural constraints on stuff.
I mean, the symbionts are obviously "trans" to some degree but not to others, and we see lots of species that seem to have non-standard gender stuff (like the Binars, for example) but I think mostly the show dealt with gender/sex as something that was a quirk of the species rather than diversity within a species. Like, when Dax kisses a woman, it's not something the show plays as a commentary about sexual orientation issues, it's something that the show plays as an comedy quirk of the fact that Dax has lived as a man and a woman which is normal for her species. Past Nichelle Nichols, I don't think Trek has much to say about gender/sex/orientation issues.
Note that the Maquis are part of the late TNG/early DS9 era I was talking about. It's pointless to talk about the version of Trek that came out after the Roddenberry rules died in terms of post-scarcity because there's considerably less effort to either hold to the ideal with any consistency or mask the insufficiency of our ability to describe something we've never experienced by focusing largely on the outside forces acting on the Federation.
In the Roddenberry trek there's basically one resource consistently specified as scarce: dilithium (or the other things they called it in early TOS episodes), and I think the implication is that its scarcity is only a factor to explorers on the edge or outside the edge of Federation space. Ie. that the Enterprise spends most of its time in scarcity societies, and suffers some degree of limitation because of that, but still comes from a post-scarcity society itself.
Which is why it basically comes down to that in Star Trek, Starfleet is where the LARPers go to live an archaic and adventurous lifestyle.
Sounds like it's time for you to stop showing other people things and go watch Babylon 5.
lastplayed
Member
Well it's more of a traditional model that you have to build and paint. I haven't got mine yet, but looks like this:
And the end result should look something like this:
There's a lighting kit you can buy for people who have no idea about lighting models (like me), but it's rather expensive.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Which is why it basically comes down to that in Star Trek, Starfleet is where the LARPers go to live an archaic and adventurous lifestyle.
It's shame that the series never really show the life of an average civilian. What we see are starfleet personnel, diplomats, scientists and colonists, but what does the average guy do with his/her time? Holodecks were new and exciting even to Picard and Data during TNG season 1, so I wouldn't expect civilians to have anything like that prior to that point, and everything seems to point that people enjoy quite simple lifestyles... dinners, plays, concerts, classical arts, 3D chess... And surprisingly many want to move to a low tech colony and become farmers. But maybe the writers were just lazy, and this was way to show how civilised everyone was supposed to be.
I wish we would some day see a Culture based TV series or even a movie. But that would probably be insanely expensive for a long time, and would not be even as popular as these space operas.
SeventhSon
Member
The common person straps on BMX pads and steps into the ring
Henchmen21
Banned
Amazon US has the TNG blu's on sale. Most are under $50. Hell season 1 is only $26 right now.
Well it's more of a traditional model that you have to build and paint. I haven't got mine yet, but looks like this:
And the end result should look something like this:
There's a lighting kit you can buy for people who have no idea about lighting models (like me), but it's rather expensive.
I've always wanted a 1:350 or so version of the Enterprise...
I'd be afraid I would completely hash the paint job or wiring, and I really don't want to buy other models to practice on. Maybe one day when I have more room I'll put it together and replace my trusty cardboard one
lastplayed
Member
Heh, that's pretty sweet.
Yeah one of the reasons I went for the TOS version was the simple paint job. I'll just be using spraycans for the main coat, then the airbrush for detail parts. I won't have any panelling or aztecing to worry about.
Yeah one of the reasons I went for the TOS version was the simple paint job. I'll just be using spraycans for the main coat, then the airbrush for detail parts. I won't have any panelling or aztecing to worry about.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Well it's more of a traditional model that you have to build and paint. I haven't got mine yet, but looks like this:
And the end result should look something like this:
There's a lighting kit you can buy for people who have no idea about lighting models (like me), but it's rather expensive.
Ooo wow. Looks like I'm out of it since I don't paint
Battersea Power Station
Member
I've tried in the past to think of the basis for a series about Earth life in the TNG world and I can't come up with anything. The world is supposed to be post-conflict, so you just have a bunch of people enjoying sports and the arts.
I hope that doesn't mean that life becomes boring... because I'm really rooting for an end to scarcity.