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[SpoonyBard]

DS9 is one of the few places where I enjoy a bit of religion, because it seems... more solid. They jump past the whole "Does this god exist?" hurdle by making them objective fact. It's therefore easy to accept organized religion being such a major force in the world, and the remaining issue of how to think about incomprehensible wormhole aliens nonlinearly meddling in the affairs of a world I find interesting.

But it also makes the whole thing rather shallow and silly. If the aliend really didn't "get" linear time, how could they even hold a conversation with Sisko? They'd know beforehand what Sisko would answer to their questions, and on the other hand they could just tell what he wanted to hear without him asking anything. And the big quest that Sisko had to do? Wait 7 years and kill a guy in a cave? They could just have asked him to do that without all that surrounding bullshit...

 

[StalkerUKCG]

But it also makes the whole thing rather shallow and silly. If the aliend really didn't "get" linear time, how could they even hold a conversation with Sisko? They'd know beforehand what Sisko would answer to their questions, and on the other hand they could just tell what he wanted to hear without him asking anything. And the big quest that Sisko had to do? Wait 7 years and kill a guy in a cave? They could just have asked him to do that without all that surrounding bullshit...

Whats horrible is sisko is a good captain religion aside. The last 10-15 mins of the last episode of ds9 kill the series for me.

 

[jaxword]

Whats horrible is sisko is a good captain religion aside. The last 10-15 mins of the last episode of ds9 kill the series for me.

Just imagine Sisko saying "I sense a disturbance in the Force" and it becomes much better.

 

[Kak.efes]

what is trek?

It has nothing to do with an ever grating Odo/Kira relationship arc that spans the entirety of the shows seven seasons.

 

[The Librarian]

It has nothing to do with an ever grating Odo/Kira relationship arc that spans the entirety of the shows seven seasons.

You're funny.

 

[maharg]

Tuvix

Ugh. Gene Rodenberry would have shot someone for this episode. And that's saying something.

 

[Escape Goat]

It has nothing to do with an ever grating Odo/Kira relationship arc that spans the entirety of the shows seven seasons.

yeah it does. Star Trek is about exploring the human condition. Love, last time I checked, was a big part of that. The fact you found it uninteresting is beside the point.

 

[Walshicus]

it's nice to see people finally coming around to Voyager. Forget that serialized soap opera tripe that is DS9. That shit is not Trek, nor will it ever be Trek.

Well, it is Trek. I'll take a darker set of stories from the edge of the Federation away from its clean core over "Pecaaaaaahn Pie" Janeway's band of can't-act-won't-acts any day.

 

[B.K.]

Peter Weller has been cast for an unknown role in Star Trek 2.

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=84840

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Peter Weller has been cast for an unknown role in Star Trek 2.

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=84840

Please don't have more Enterprise shit in it.

 

[Walshicus]

Please don't have more Enterprise shit in it.

Don't see why that's a bad thing. The episodes he was in were Good Trek. Enterprise wasn't bad. At times it was very good.

 

[BattleMonkey]

it's nice to see people finally coming around to Voyager. Forget that serialized soap opera tripe that is DS9. That shit is not Trek, nor will it ever be Trek.

*shakes head*

 

[Slayven]

Did Roddenberry ever detailed the Federation's economy?

 

[teiresias]

Did Roddenberry ever detailed the Federation's economy?

Unless it's better expanded on in the EU (of which I have pretty much Zero knowledge aside from the novel that really should have been the first TNG movie), the economy in Star Trek has rarely made much sense.

Money "doesn't exist" according to references in the show (the latest one I can remember is Picard talking about it in the film "First Contact"), but I'm not clear whether that's just Earth or the entire Federation. If so, how do they do any kind of trade or have any kind of relations with, for example, the Ferengi (granted, the Ferengi have their own continuity problems in the show)?

 

[jaxword]

Did Roddenberry ever detailed the Federation's economy?

Never in details, as he was a writer, not an economist.

Most fans just accept the general idea that it's successful socialism taken to its peak. So all basic needs of all humans are met, thus freeing them to use their earned cash on luxuries and personal growth. There's "Credits" if people need to buy things they want, like art or holodeck hours or space toys.

Of course, achieving this would be completely impossible in our capitalist world as the system is far too ingrained to ever change.

 

[benjipwns]

Also, there's that pesky fact that we aren't a near post-scarcity society like the TNG and forward Federation is depending on which episode you watch.

 

[jaxword]

The general "timeline" of how Trek's humanity achieved their enlightened, non-greedy status is:

Around the 1990s: The Eugenics wars break out. This leads to World War 3 over the next few decades. Most of the world's governments fall due to nuclear strikes being mainly on major cities. The major religions fall as well. Economic systems crumble. The death toll is never really set since different writers give different BIG NUMBERS, but the last claim was 300 million. Probably will go into the billions with the next JJTrek film.

2000-2060 : Humanity has splintered into isolated, warring factions across the globe as we live in a post-atomic wasteland.

2063 - Cochrane develops warp drive and humans discover alien life. These two developments are presumably what spurs new levels of thinking in humanity and make us stop slaughtering each other for worshiping the wrong God/money.

 

[benjipwns]

Veidt's method was quicker.

 

[Cheerilee]

Unless it's better expanded on in the EU (of which I have pretty much Zero knowledge aside from the novel that really should have been the first TNG movie), the economy in Star Trek has rarely made much sense.

Money "doesn't exist" according to references in the show (the latest one I can remember is Picard talking about it in the film "First Contact"), but I'm not clear whether that's just Earth or the entire Federation. If so, how do they do any kind of trade or have any kind of relations with, for example, the Ferengi (granted, the Ferengi have their own continuity problems in the show)?

According to Enterprise, the Vulcans lorded their superior knowledge and technology over the Humans, and handed it out little by little as Humans changed their ways to meet Vulcan approval. The Vulcans are supposed to be a Meritocracy, so everyone (in Vulcan society) is tested for capability and then required to do the thing they're good at, regardless of desire.

I think Picard said that humans work for personal gratification and the betterment of mankind. I guess the Vulcans thought that was close enough. Once the Vulcans shared the last of their tech like replicators, there was no need for Earth/Vulcan trade or money.

I don't imagine the Andoreans were as willing to adopt Vulcan ideals, so they might've had money on their planet. I think it was suggested that Andorea was largely militarized, so maybe it had a military dictatorship. But if they made a technology sharing agreement with the Humans/Vulcans when they joined the Federation, they wouldn't have any need for space trade.

And then there's Risa. The planet where the inhabitants get off on making others happy, regardless of what that entails.

I don't think the Ferengi have official trade with the Federation. I think they had a minor war because they felt the Federation's expanding net of "sharing" was messing with their potential customers. So they made peace and started corrupting Humans on an individual level, returning them to their roots and swaying them away from the Vulcan influence.

 

[Gary Whitta]

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPoqNeR3_UA

 

[spidye]

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPoqNeR3_UA

feels like home

I really love the sound of the spaceships. even the new one

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPoqNeR3_UA

Here's the HD version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cqCoUvz_nwI

 

[TheExodu5]

I loved DS9, though I think it had many lulls and yeah, the finale was terrible. Sisko was a great captain, however.

Voyager doesn't quite have the highs, but I don't feel like it has too many lows at all (aside from Kate Mulgrew as an actress). It's a very entertaining show. The story takes some interesting twists, and the overall arc, although completely out there, is fun to watch. The Doctor is also one of the best Trek characters.

The surprise hit for me is Enterprise. I thought it was a great series, and Seasons 3 and 4 were largely fantastic. It did something new, and dissapointingly, the fan base did not react well to it.

 

[JdFoX187]

Have been working my way through Enterprise over the past three weeks to a month. The first two seasons, outside of the episodes dealing with the Temporal Cold War, were rather bland and fairly uninteresting. But now that they've moved to the Xindi conflict in season three, which I'm halfway through, it's really become interesting. Haven't been intrigued by anything as much as the expanse since the Delta Quadrant in DS9. Really curious where this goes, even if it does all eventually culminate with a shitty finale.

 

[Zzoram]

The worst episode of Voyager was the Warp 10 one where Tom Paris "evolved". Fuck that shit.

Voyager had a few good episodes. The Year of Hell was a good two hours.

 

[DrForester]

The worst episode of Voyager was the Warp 10 one where Tom Paris "evolved". Fuck that shit.

Voyager had a few good episodes. The Year of Hell was a good two hours.

Not just Voyager, that's pretty much the worst episode of the franchise, with it's only competition being the Enterprise finale.

 

[Zzoram]

Have been working my way through Enterprise over the past three weeks to a month. The first two seasons, outside of the episodes dealing with the Temporal Cold War, were rather bland and fairly uninteresting. But now that they've moved to the Xindi conflict in season three, which I'm halfway through, it's really become interesting. Haven't been intrigued by anything as much as the expanse since the Delta Quadrant in DS9. Really curious where this goes, even if it does all eventually culminate with a shitty finale.

Enterprise season 3 and 4 are pretty good IMO. Not perfect, but nowhere near as bad as season 1 and 2.

I like how season 4 wraps up the temporal cold war as quickly as possible to get rid of it because a new guy took over the show and made it better. Season 4 became about the birth of the federation, a bunch of mini-arcs to explain how things got to be the way they would be in the future. That's the kind of stuff people wanted from Enterprise from the start, but instead they got a shitty temporal cold war that went nowhere and made no sense.

 

[Walshicus]

Have been working my way through Enterprise over the past three weeks to a month. The first two seasons, outside of the episodes dealing with the Temporal Cold War, were rather bland and fairly uninteresting. But now that they've moved to the Xindi conflict in season three, which I'm halfway through, it's really become interesting. Haven't been intrigued by anything as much as the expanse since the Delta Quadrant in DS9. Really curious where this goes, even if it does all eventually culminate with a shitty finale.

I thought the Xindi were a pretty interesting adversary for Series 3. On a related note, Star Trek Online is about to introduce Xindi duty officers to the game - can't wait to get my Xindi Aquatic navigation officer...

 

[exhume]

Thread bump of I've just finished TOS Season 2 and this is the best shit ever!

I was watching TNG with my bf and enjoying it a lot but we stalled on Season 5 as he'd rather play Killing Floor with his bros in the evenings than watch TV with me these days. Oh well, his loss!

I love the cheesy, campy styles of TOS (my favourite film is Dark Star, so go figure) and the whole cast is just excellent. Spock is great; I've always enjoyed the cool, logical character archetype and it's pretty sweet to see one of the best examples of it in action.

I'm also in love with the aesthetics of the show - the effects and art direction have obviously aged, though I'm watching the remastered edition. I like that they haven't souped it up too much and it still looks obviously fake and a little bit silly. But mostly I adore the simple, eerie planetscapes and the bright, weird colours - it's almost like a collective-unconscious/child's imagining of what alien landscapes would look like. Funny touches like flat paths through otherwise natural-looking caverns and blank grey walls with switches sticking out of them at almost random placements give the show such a bizarre quality that seems inspired by the weird logic of a dream, or something. Totally surreal and not like anything else I've watched. anyway /art school rant

So yeah, I'm gonna be pretty sad when I finish Season 3, even though it's fairly ridiculous from what I've watched so far.

 

[poisonelf]

So, Deep Space Nine just slapped me in the face. Utter surprise and disappointment, I hope I'm wrong though.

I've been reading about its great story arc so I decided to try and watch it once more. Never could do it up to now because I believed that Star Trek should be in a ship and episodes in a station would be boring, not to mention a boring first season and the almost impossible feat of having to accept others than Picard, Data, Kirk, Spock etc as being Star Trek.

Well, made it to season 5 and I'm hooked. I love it. Characters develop, almost no continuity mistakes, great story arcs that results in epic episodes, Star Trek ethics and feel, loving it all.

And now comes episode 'Rapture', season 5. WHAT THE FUCK? Star Trek is about evolved humanity, end of greed, cultivation of ethics and the self, helping those in need, logic, science, AND NO BELIEF IN PRIMITIVE FAIRY TALE RELIGIONS.

I'll never forget Picard's speech in that episode where they are perceived as gods by a relatively primitive culture just coming to the point of no longer believing in benevolent omnipotent grandpas.
He says something to the effect of "these people took the greatest step in evolution and logic, believing in themselves and not supernatural beings to guide them and punish them, and we are to take that away from them?"

And now comes "Rapture", with its visions that "cannot be explained to the unbeliever" and the "significance of faith". DS9 has its undertones of religion and mysticism, but so far it's been under the light of "Bajorans believe that, we abide for their sake, but we know it's just some non-corporeal life forms experiencing time differently, nothing supernatural or faith-y like".

So disappointed, and from what I've read here it gets worse? I'll be re-watching TNG I think.

 

[Trent Strong]

Voyager really becomes The Seven Show. She dominates every season since her introduction.

 

[Cheerilee]

Voyager really becomes The Seven Show. She dominates every season since her introduction.

That tends to happen when you're sleeping with the producers.

 

[jaxword]

So, Deep Space Nine just slapped me in the face. Utter surprise and disappointment, I hope I'm wrong though.

I've been reading about its great story arc so I decided to try and watch it once more. Never could do it up to now because I believed that Star Trek should be in a ship and episodes in a station would be boring, not to mention a boring first season and the almost impossible feat of having to accept others than Picard, Data, Kirk, Spock etc as being Star Trek.

Well, made it to season 5 and I'm hooked. I love it. Characters develop, almost no continuity mistakes, great story arcs that results in epic episodes, Star Trek ethics and feel, loving it all.

And now comes episode 'Rapture', season 5. WHAT THE FUCK? Star Trek is about evolved humanity, end of greed, cultivation of ethics and the self, helping those in need, logic, science, AND NO BELIEF IN PRIMITIVE FAIRY TALE RELIGIONS.

I'll never forget Picard's speech in that episode where they are perceived as gods by a relatively primitive culture just coming to the point of no longer believing in benevolent omnipotent grandpas.
He says something to the effect of "these people took the greatest step in evolution and logic, believing in themselves and not supernatural beings to guide them and punish them, and we are to take that away from them?"

And now comes "Rapture", with its visions that "cannot be explained to the unbeliever" and the "significance of faith". DS9 has its undertones of religion and mysticism, but so far it's been under the light of "Bajorans believe that, we abide for their sake, but we know it's just some non-corporeal life forms experiencing time differently, nothing supernatural or faith-y like".

So disappointed, and from what I've read here it gets worse? I'll be re-watching TNG I think.

It gets worse but at the same time gets better:

Spoiler

Since the aliens are non-linear, this means that they perceive things like the future in the same way our priests have visions. This also means that anyone RELATED to the aliens would have a similar ability. So all the mumbo jumbo has a cause.

 

[TheExodu5]

It's a shame Odo was such a shitty character for the last 2 seasons.

 

[Escape Goat]

So, Deep Space Nine just slapped me in the face. Utter surprise and disappointment, I hope I'm wrong though.

I've been reading about its great story arc so I decided to try and watch it once more. Never could do it up to now because I believed that Star Trek should be in a ship and episodes in a station would be boring, not to mention a boring first season and the almost impossible feat of having to accept others than Picard, Data, Kirk, Spock etc as being Star Trek.

Well, made it to season 5 and I'm hooked. I love it. Characters develop, almost no continuity mistakes, great story arcs that results in epic episodes, Star Trek ethics and feel, loving it all.

And now comes episode 'Rapture', season 5. WHAT THE FUCK? Star Trek is about evolved humanity, end of greed, cultivation of ethics and the self, helping those in need, logic, science, AND NO BELIEF IN PRIMITIVE FAIRY TALE RELIGIONS.

I'll never forget Picard's speech in that episode where they are perceived as gods by a relatively primitive culture just coming to the point of no longer believing in benevolent omnipotent grandpas.
He says something to the effect of "these people took the greatest step in evolution and logic, believing in themselves and not supernatural beings to guide them and punish them, and we are to take that away from them?"

And now comes "Rapture", with its visions that "cannot be explained to the unbeliever" and the "significance of faith". DS9 has its undertones of religion and mysticism, but so far it's been under the light of "Bajorans believe that, we abide for their sake, but we know it's just some non-corporeal life forms experiencing time differently, nothing supernatural or faith-y like".

So disappointed, and from what I've read here it gets worse? I'll be re-watching TNG I think.

Even the Prophets say they "are of Bajor". So...what exactly is your problem with them being perceived as gods?

 

[Trent Strong]

That tends to happen when you're sleeping with the producers.

Whoa, I didn't know that. Makes sense though.

 

[poisonelf]

Even the Prophets say they "are of Bajor". So...what exactly is your problem with them being perceived as gods?

I have no problem with them being perceived as gods by Bajorans, or any other species, as long as the overall presentation retains the "nothing supernatural to see here, no unexplainable power of faith to the divine, just different/powerful/advanced but totally explainable with sufficient grasp of logic/science beings" theme.

The thing is that in that episode it seemed like the visions were part of an awakening to acceptance of some divine plan, the belief in 'faith' was presented as acceptable, and the idea that the prophets may be some sort of gods, and not just perceived as such, seemed to be all over the place.

I could be wrong, hope so.

It gets worse but at the same time gets better:

Spoiler

Since the aliens are non-linear, this means that they perceive things like the future in the same way our priests have visions. This also means that anyone RELATED to the aliens would have a similar ability. So all the mumbo jumbo has a cause.

Yes, that's how I tried to rationalize it too, but the whole presentation seemed to point to: have faith=understand and perceive more. Completely anti-Federation stuff

 

[Henchmen21]

So, Deep Space Nine just slapped me in the face. Utter surprise and disappointment, I hope I'm wrong though.

I've been reading about its great story arc so I decided to try and watch it once more. Never could do it up to now because I believed that Star Trek should be in a ship and episodes in a station would be boring, not to mention a boring first season and the almost impossible feat of having to accept others than Picard, Data, Kirk, Spock etc as being Star Trek.

Well, made it to season 5 and I'm hooked. I love it. Characters develop, almost no continuity mistakes, great story arcs that results in epic episodes, Star Trek ethics and feel, loving it all.

And now comes episode 'Rapture', season 5. WHAT THE FUCK? Star Trek is about evolved humanity, end of greed, cultivation of ethics and the self, helping those in need, logic, science, AND NO BELIEF IN PRIMITIVE FAIRY TALE RELIGIONS.

I'll never forget Picard's speech in that episode where they are perceived as gods by a relatively primitive culture just coming to the point of no longer believing in benevolent omnipotent grandpas.
He says something to the effect of "these people took the greatest step in evolution and logic, believing in themselves and not supernatural beings to guide them and punish them, and we are to take that away from them?"

And now comes "Rapture", with its visions that "cannot be explained to the unbeliever" and the "significance of faith". DS9 has its undertones of religion and mysticism, but so far it's been under the light of "Bajorans believe that, we abide for their sake, but we know it's just some non-corporeal life forms experiencing time differently, nothing supernatural or faith-y like".

So disappointed, and from what I've read here it gets worse? I'll be re-watching TNG I think.

Yeah, DS9 is definitely more right wing in it's views.

People can say I don't know what I'm talking about but DS9 is, to me, the shot that killed star trek. Voyager was the funeral, Enterprise was B&B pissing on it's grave, and now Abrahms trek is JJ trying to dig up the corpse and control it like a puppet.

 

[Escape Goat]

Yeah, DS9 is definitely more right wing in it's views.

People can say I don't know what I'm talking about but DS9 is, to me, the shot that killed star trek. Voyager was the funeral, Enterprise was B&B pissing on it's grave, and now Abrahms trek is JJ trying to dig up the corpse and control it like a puppet.

Right wing? Eh? The shot that killed star trek? What am I reading? DS9 was the last true Trek we had. It told substantive stories exploring the human condition. Voyager was just Trek for dummies and Enterprise was just Trek that had been done before but a lot better.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Yeah, DS9 is definitely more right wing in it's views.

Certainly not American-style right wing. Much of the show was about how terrorists sometimes have a valid point of view.

 

[Henchmen21]

Right wing? Eh? The shot that killed star trek? What am I reading? DS9 was the last true Trek we had. It told substantive stories exploring the human condition. Voyager was just Trek for dummies and Enterprise was just Trek that had been done before but a lot better.

It's totally right wing.

Pro-religion. Check
Might makes right. Check
Dumbass Section 31 that wouldn't have flown back when Gene was alive. Check

Ira Steven-Behr was a horrid writer that lacked any subtlety. Everyone laughs at the TOS klingons being Space Soviets but the Bajorans were worse.

Stories exploring the human condition? Where? Did I blink and miss them? Prior to Dominion war it was boring ass stories about space station operation and then after that whole Dominion nonsense it became the "Big Explosion" show.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Sometimes DS9 goes a bit too far with religious themes, but it's not worth it to just stop watching in Season 5.

And this talk about "the shot that killed Star Trek" seems like an overreaction. DS9 is a great show that's, in my opinion, compelling from start to finish. And I'm actually non-religious in real life. You just have to take the "prophet" business with a grain of salt. It's part of the show's context but from what I remember it doesn't dominate all the storylines and characters and isn't detrimental to the experience as a whole.

I'm enjoying my current run-through of The Next Generation, but it's obvious to me that the TNG/TOS approach isn't what Star Trek needs to be. DS9 is proof that the series could expand beyond the mere idea of "trekking" throughout the Galaxy.

 

[Escape Goat]

It's totally right wing.

Pro-religion. Check
Might makes right. Check
Dumbass Section 31 that wouldn't have flown back when Gene was alive. Check

Ira Steven-Behr was a horrid writer that lacked any subtlety. Everyone laughs at the TOS klingons being Space Soviets but the Bajorans were worse.

Stories exploring the human condition? Where? Did I blink and miss them? Prior to Dominion war it was boring ass stories about space station operation and then after that whole Dominion nonsense it became the "Big Explosion" show.

Where did they show might makes right?

Section 31 was just a dumb idea. I never bought into that.

i think you outright fell asleep because all you got out of the show was "boring space station operations" and "big explosions".

 

[Slayven]

So, Deep Space Nine just slapped me in the face. Utter surprise and disappointment, I hope I'm wrong though.

I've been reading about its great story arc so I decided to try and watch it once more. Never could do it up to now because I believed that Star Trek should be in a ship and episodes in a station would be boring, not to mention a boring first season and the almost impossible feat of having to accept others than Picard, Data, Kirk, Spock etc as being Star Trek.

Well, made it to season 5 and I'm hooked. I love it. Characters develop, almost no continuity mistakes, great story arcs that results in epic episodes, Star Trek ethics and feel, loving it all.

And now comes episode 'Rapture', season 5. WHAT THE FUCK? Star Trek is about evolved humanity, end of greed, cultivation of ethics and the self, helping those in need, logic, science, AND NO BELIEF IN PRIMITIVE FAIRY TALE RELIGIONS.

I'll never forget Picard's speech in that episode where they are perceived as gods by a relatively primitive culture just coming to the point of no longer believing in benevolent omnipotent grandpas.
He says something to the effect of "these people took the greatest step in evolution and logic, believing in themselves and not supernatural beings to guide them and punish them, and we are to take that away from them?"

And now comes "Rapture", with its visions that "cannot be explained to the unbeliever" and the "significance of faith". DS9 has its undertones of religion and mysticism, but so far it's been under the light of "Bajorans believe that, we abide for their sake, but we know it's just some non-corporeal life forms experiencing time differently, nothing supernatural or faith-y like".

So disappointed, and from what I've read here it gets worse? I'll be re-watching TNG I think.

Vulcans playing baseball pretty much negates your whole post. Sorry.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Section 31 was just a dumb idea. I never bought into that.

i think you outright fell asleep because all you got out of the show was "boring space station operations" and "big explosions".

I think it's hard to disagree that Section 31 was "meh." When I think of DS9 I never think of Section 31; I always forget it even existed.

But yeah, I don't get the other comments. Then again, like I said before, I'm non-religious. I'm also not very sensitive to politics and religion in general. So maybe my lack of reaction to these things in real life is what helped me tune them out a bit more and enjoy the rest of the show.

 

[Henchmen21]

Where did they show might makes right?

Section 31 was just a dumb idea. I never bought into that.

i think you outright fell asleep because all you got out of the show was "boring space station operations" and "big explosions".

Dude, why do you think they added the Defiant in season 3 (besides because of awful ratings)? because the never went fucking anywhere in the first two seasons and they still couldn't rope in enough viewers which is why they added Worf in season four (and butchered his character).

Okay, Might makes right may not be the right choice of words but the focus on the Dominion war for the rest of the shows run was definitely off putting.

 

[Davey Cakes]

I'm actually glad that I watched this show so long after it originally aired. Made it easier to just relax through the first three seasons. I actually think DS9's seasons 1 and 2 are better than TNG's (admitting that TNG S1 was 95% utter garbage). The show didn't really go anywhere but I can't be alone in saying that there was something pleasurable in just watching peoples' lives unfold on a space station.

But, whoa, the show's addition of Worf was a great move but I don't know how you can say they butchered his character. If anything they developed and improved it further, even though TNG already did a great job making him compelling (given how lackluster his role was in the earlier seasons). I don't mean to sound overly forgiving of the writers but I just don't remember specific examples of jeopardizing Worf's character.

 

[GameplayWhore]

It's totally right wing.

Pro-religion. Check

"Pro-religion" isn't right wing. If you really think it is, tell my wiccan friends so and they will very gently pat you on the head, stifling a giggle.

Might makes right. Check

I missed the episode where the Federation won the war because they had superior firepower. I had the impression that they were getting their butt kicked for most of the story and had to rely on help from other nations to survive. Heck, even situations where they *did* have might were treated very bittersweetly, such as when the Maquis was dissolved.

Dumbass Section 31 that wouldn't have flown back when Gene was alive. Check

They were usually portrayed by the show as villains or as characters who went past the line of acceptable conduct to achieve their aims. Having a character who is right wing and then saying "this character is a bad person!" does not make the show right wing.

Ira Steven-Behr was a horrid writer that lacked any subtlety. Everyone laughs at the TOS klingons being Space Soviets but the Bajorans were worse.

Possibly. I would have to go back and watch. I remember being fine with most of it, but certain aspects were jarring.



I agree with some of what you're saying about the war. Too many space fights -- the show tried to be actionish like Star Wars, and that's not what Trek is about*. I actually liked a lot of the first couple seasons, when the show was a little less arc-oriented.



* okay, they blew up shit all the time in TOS, but even though they hit the audience over the head with it, there was generally an overall moral of the story being told

 

[Slayven]

I kind of wished they revealed the Breen in the series. The explanation for them in the books was kind of cool.

 

[GameplayWhore]

I kind of wished they revealed the Breen in the series. The explanation for them in the books was kind of cool.

I would have liked seeing more about the Hurk. Heck, a large part of the reason why I didn't drop Voyager really early on (in the same manner that I dumped Terra Nova, which -- oh look! -- is produced and occasionally written by the same guy) is because they seemed to me like the Klingons just after they overthrew the Hurk, and I wanted to see them explore this aspect of the race (and less of the "RARRRG, WE'RE UNTRUSTWORTHY AND VIOLENT AND DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE WATER!" stuff).