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[Escape Goat]

I was watching Time Squared this morning and in the teaser you have Riker, Data, Geordi, Worf and Dr Pulaski in Riker's quarters where he is "making omelettes". But all he does is crack and egg onto a hot plate, burn it really good and dump it on everybody's plate. Oh, Pulaski also brings "ale" for them to drink. Ale? Are they eating breakfast? How is heating up an egg "cooking"? Did everybody take time out of their day to patronize Riker?

At least Sisko actually cooked shit. Riker cooks like a college student living off campus "cooks".

 

[An-Det]

If any of you are in Canda and feel like going to a con...

http://trekmovie.com/2012/01/29/entire-star-trek-tng-cast-to-reunite-at-calgary-expo-in-april/

Full TNG cast reunion.

Even Denise Crosby and Wil Wheaton, that's awesome. If it were possible for me to go I'd love to see this.

 

[B.K.]

I was watching Time Squared this morning and in the teaser you have Riker, Data, Geordi, Worf and Dr Pulaski in Riker's quarters where he is "making omelettes". But all he does is crack and egg onto a hot plate, burn it really good and dump it on everybody's plate. Oh, Pulaski also brings "ale" for them to drink. Ale? Are they eating breakfast? How is heating up an egg "cooking"? Did everybody take time out of their day to patronize Riker?

They are too spoiled by the replicators. No one on starships knows how to cook.

 

[Htown]

I've been going through TNG on Netflix.

Yo, season 1 was rough. ROUGH, I tell you. There are like four good episodes out of the whole season.

Season 2 was mostly alright. Season 3 is really good.

 

[Mlatador]

I just wanna say that I only like the first 6 movies. Never watched the actual series, but wow, those first 6 movies are really awesome.

 

[BorkBork]

I just wanna say that I only like the first 6 movies. Never watched the actual series, but wow, those first 6 movies are really awesome.

Even 5?

 

[teiresias]

I like the first two TNG movies well enough. The first one just because of getting to see the familiar sets and the Enterprise-D on the big screen, shot and lit in completely unconventional and weird ways. The second (First Contact), just because it's, IMO, a really good looking, well shot film. I'm not one that holds a huge grudge over the insertion of the Borg Queen into the Borg mythos, but it's definitely the last of the good Borg material before Voyager just ran them into the ground.

I just watched STVI for the first time in a looooong time last night, and I'd forgotten how pretty much every set was just a redressed TNG set. It was honestly somewhat distracting, but I still think it's a good film (and definitely a nice rebound from STV).

 

[alternade]

I'm watching through all of Voyager(on S6 now). The best episode for me have been the ones regarding the Doctor. I am a bit lost as to why Janeway doesn't do more to get them home though. So many missed chances. Voyager as a ship though is extremely versatile to survive that long by themselves or are most Federation ship capable of such a journey?

A couple of gripes I have though. How do they have an almost endless supply of shuttles? Why is 99% of the races they encounter bipedal and oxygen breathing? Why arent they more heavily armed, both the ship and the crew? After a while you would think they would have traded more than just Dilitium and warp coils.


Still debating if I should jump into DS9 or wait for the HD remaster of TNG?

 

[Qwomo]

Still trudging through Season 6 of DS9. Inquisition and In the Pale Moonlight were really great, the latter episode was probably one of my favorite Sisko eps. I liked his theatrical soliloquizing and it was a good character arc.

This season has a lot more good one-off episodes. The Magnificent Ferengi, One Little Ship, Statistical Probabilities, and Honor Among Thieves were all very, very enjoyable. Far Beyond the Stars was also really great. One of my favorite DS9 episodes so far. I loved that the actors were actually playing completely different characters than their regular roles - it wasn't just "mirror universe" this or "alternate timeline" that. Dorn as that babyfaced baseball player and Alaimo and Coombs as the cops was great to see.

Too bad I couldn't watch that episode all the way through since, as always, Avery Brooks' acting is just painful to watch. So embarrassing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xKo6-xu6dc

That scene is well written, as is the whole episode, but it's just too bad that the man delivering the lines is one of the worst leads on Trek. I just turned the TV off and walked away when that scene came up.

Also Vic Fontaine is making me want to stop watching this show altogether. So awkward and forced.

 

[alysonwheel]

I know, very nice of them to give the spot to the Doctor who was in 6/7 seasons, and not bring in that one Doctor from 1 season that was 1000x better than Crusher.

Better than Crusher? To the best of my knowledge, Dr Pulaski was never haunted. Advantage Crusher.

The other half is painting War Machine models so we've been watching the whole of TNG-era Star Trek from beginning to end. We're up to Voyager season seven now, and I'm amazed both at how little of Voyager I'd actually seen before (the big ticket episodes, some of the terrible early stuff, and a few randoms here and there) and how much I'm enjoying it. I mean, it's totally a valid criticism that the only characters who develop over its course are the Doctor, Seven, and Naomi Wildman (subunit of Ensign Samantha Wildman), but Voyager: The Seven and EMH Show is entertaining enough that I don't care how Harry Perpetual Ensign Kim's only personal progression is his learning to play the saxophone.

Sadly I can see the end of season seven approaching, which iirc means the least convincing romance in the history of Star Trek and a final episode that doesn't even really show them getting home.

 

[The Librarian]

Too bad I couldn't watch that episode all the way through since, as always, Avery Brooks' acting is just painful to watch. So embarrassing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xKo6-xu6dc

That scene is well written, as is the whole episode, but it's just too bad that the man delivering the lines is one of the worst leads on Trek. I just turned the TV off and walked away when that scene came up.

God I love "Far Beyond the Stars." I always tear up at the end. Magnificent performance and delivery by Brooks.

I'm watching through all of Voyager(on S6 now). The best episode for me have been the ones regarding the Doctor. I am a bit lost as to why Janeway doesn't do more to get them home though. So many missed chances. Voyager as a ship though is extremely versatile to survive that long by themselves or are most Federation ship capable of such a journey?

A couple of gripes I have though. How do they have an almost endless supply of shuttles? Why is 99% of the races they encounter bipedal and oxygen breathing? Why arent they more heavily armed, both the ship and the crew? After a while you would think they would have traded more than just Dilitium and warp coils.


Still debating if I should jump into DS9 or wait for the HD remaster of TNG?

TNG Blu-Ray will take a while for all seven seasons to release, so either watch TNG on SD or just move on to DS9.

 

[Qwomo]

God I love "Far Beyond the Stars." I always tear up at the end. Magnificent performance and delivery by Brooks.

haha of course

 

[BorkBork]

It's interesting to see what people classify as good acting. I think Brooks is a little hammy, but IMO turns in a pretty consistent performance and can carry an episode. Visitor can overact, but Kira turns out to be one of my favorite Trek characters.

 

[Qwomo]

A lot of the acting in DS9 is really atrocious. Trek has never been about good acting, of course - the main cast in every series consists of not-quite-actors - but for some reason I just can't abide it in DS9.

Thankfully for every Siddig and Visitor and Brooks there's a Meaney and Auberjonois and Alaimo to make things better.

 

[Davey Cakes]

I think it's all decent to good acting, but in terms of Brooks it's different and untraditional. But, that's probably why I like it. His delivery might be off-putting to some, but it's one of the things keeping Sisko from being too much like Picard.

So yeah, I think Brooks does a good job, but his style might not jive with everybody.

Honestly, I have no issues with any of the DS9 cast.

 

[Zzoram]

I just wanna say that I only like the first 6 movies. Never watched the actual series, but wow, those first 6 movies are really awesome.

You seriously liked Star Trek 1 and 5?

1 maybe I can understand, but 5? That was so bad.

 

[maharg]

Also Vic Fontaine is making me want to stop watching this show altogether. So awkward and forced.

Yeah. That whole thing was really terrible.

 

[TheExodu5]

TNG has a few great actors, Picard and Data are both phenomenal.

DS9...the acting wasn't so good. Sisko was overracted (though I came to enjoy that), and Dax was just bad.

 

[Zzoram]

A lot of the acting in DS9 is really atrocious. Trek has never been about good acting, of course - the main cast in every series consists of not-quite-actors - but for some reason I just can't abide it in DS9.

Thankfully for every Siddig and Visitor and Brooks there's a Meaney and Auberjonois and Alaimo to make things better.

DS9 acting starts off a lot worse, but it gets better with time. Kira in particular starts off terrible but becomes pretty good by the end.

Dax always seems high and not particularly interested in her job.

 

[Tobor]

I was watching Time Squared this morning and in the teaser you have Riker, Data, Geordi, Worf and Dr Pulaski in Riker's quarters where he is "making omelettes". But all he does is crack and egg onto a hot plate, burn it really good and dump it on everybody's plate. Oh, Pulaski also brings "ale" for them to drink. Ale? Are they eating breakfast? How is heating up an egg "cooking"? Did everybody take time out of their day to patronize Riker?

At least Sisko actually cooked shit. Riker cooks like a college student living off campus "cooks".

Apparently, that's how to make a traditional omelette. Riker is old school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWmvfUKwBrg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Davey Cakes]

Riker should have just used a supersonic microwave or something.

Then again, I'm not the best at making eggs. Have the heat up too high and they stick to the pan and get overcooked (I don't use butter; just a little bit of oil). Have the heat too low and the eggs cook perfectly but take forever. Eggs make for a cooking job that's easy to learn but hard to master.

 

[beelzebozo]

supporting cast in DS9 is really what has always impressed me. armin shimerman, andrew robinson, colm meaney, rene auberjonois. . .these were always my favorites. there is something funky about the way avery brooks plays sisko, but i almost wonder if what he's doing there isn't very intentional--sometimes sisko seems like a bit of a weirdo, and i think brooks WANTS to play him as eccentric.

 

[DrForester]

Also Vic Fontaine is making me want to stop watching this show altogether. So awkward and forced.

Vic worked fine as a one off character. The only time I liked the character after that was

Spoiler

When Nog is dealing with his leg

.

 

[Davey Cakes]

For differentiation purposes, Sisko's eccentricity does play to his advantage, in my opinion. So that's a good excuse for Brook's acting, whether it's good or bad.

Also rewatched DS9 season 7 the other day, forgot how much I loved the last two seasons. Anyone who dislikes ds9 is just an inferior human being and probably touches little children and kills puppies.

DS9 is good all the way through, in my opinion. Its Season 7 is definitely better than TNG's, though the finale isn't as good. I remember being surprised by how much I enjoyed DS9 Season 7. They introduce Ezri and develop her character decently during the course of that single season, even though they had to dedicate a good chunk of episodes to her in order to be successful. I will say that I didn't care for Dukat much, though. I think they took the religious thing too far with him.

 

[siddx]

Who gives a fuck about Dax's acting, she was gorgeous (both jadzia and ezri)

Finally got around the reading the latest mirror universe novel. In typical David Mack fashion it's ridiculous and outlandish in some points, but also really entertaining in a shut off your brain way. Thought it was a fun read and a satisfying end to what feels like the longest storyline ever. It will be interesting to see what happens next.
Also interested in how the new typhoon pact books will be, as the last couple have been very underwhelming (ranging from terrible to tolerable).


Also rewatched DS9 season 7 the other day, forgot how much I loved the last two seasons. Anyone who dislikes ds9 is just an inferior human being and probably touches little children and kills puppies.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Also rewatched DS9 season 7 the other day, forgot how much I loved the last two seasons. Anyone who dislikes ds9 is just an inferior human being and probably touches little children and kills puppies.

Anyone who gives it praise like this seems to somehow ignore all the bad and annoying things about DS9.

 

[Slayven]

Who gives a fuck about Dax's acting, she was gorgeous (both jadzia and ezri)

Finally got around the reading the latest mirror universe novel. In typical David Mack fashion it's ridiculous and outlandish in some points, but also really entertaining in a shut off your brain way. Thought it was a fun read and a satisfying end to what feels like the longest storyline ever. It will be interesting to see what happens next.
Also interested in how the new typhoon pact books will be, as the last couple have been very underwhelming (ranging from terrible to tolerable).


Also rewatched DS9 season 7 the other day, forgot how much I loved the last two seasons. Anyone who dislikes ds9 is just an inferior human being and probably touches little children and kills puppies.

Man I want to read them so bad now that I found out they continued the Empress Hoshi plot.

 

[siddx]

Man I want to read them so bad now that I found out they continued the Empress Hoshi plot.

All the ones I read were set in post DS9 mirror universe episode era, I actually didn't read anything with hoshi.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Anyone who gives it praise like this seems to somehow ignore all the bad and annoying things about DS9.

I think the point is that the show is good enough that the "bad" stuff is easy to ignore. That and "badness" is subjective. This is a soap opera in space, after all. It will undoubtedly have divisive elements. But honestly, even after running through TNG all the way I still hold DS9 to be the best Trek. Not only that, but DS9 is just an overall enjoyable show in general. When I started watching it, I viewed it as "the Star Trek show for people who don't know if they'll like Star Trek." And upon finishing it, I didn't feel much different. It's a good experience both in terms of Trek and in general terms of a semi-serialized 176-episode television program.

 

[Escape Goat]

Even Denise Crosby and Wil Wheaton, that's awesome. If it were possible for me to go I'd love to see this.

I remember seeing Denise Crosby on Lois and Clark back in the day and she had gotten fat. Tasha Yar was so depressed over dieing she just ate and ate

 

[Slayven]

I remember seeing Denise Crosby on Lois and Clark back in the day and she had gotten fat. Tasha Yar was so depressed over dieing she just ate and ate

She turned into a romulan then a Midwestern soccer mom.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I think the point is that the show is good enough that the "bad" stuff is easy to ignore. That and "badness" is subjective. This is a soap opera in space, after all. It will undoubtedly have divisive elements. But honestly, even after running through TNG all the way I still hold DS9 to be the best Trek. Not only that, but DS9 is just an overall enjoyable show in general. When I started watching it, I viewed it as "the Star Trek show for people who don't know if they'll like Star Trek." And upon finishing it, I didn't feel much different. It's a good experience both in terms of Trek and in general terms of a semi-serialized 176-episode television program.

I don't think the bad stuff is easy to ignore though. In fact it stood out so much after hearing all the praise about the series. All the praise doesn't prepare you for the shit you have to sit through at times. I think at its peak, DS9 is some of the best Trek when it's firing on all cylinders, but man the lows and inconsistency is annoying, especially early on with how much you have to sit through before it gets even good.

 

[beelzebozo]

the show taking a while to find its groove and having some real groaners through its run sounds like it follows the star trek tradition.

 

[karobit]

I was watching Time Squared this morning and in the teaser you have Riker, Data, Geordi, Worf and Dr Pulaski in Riker's quarters where he is "making omelettes". But all he does is crack and egg onto a hot plate, burn it really good and dump it on everybody's plate. Oh, Pulaski also brings "ale" for them to drink. Ale? Are they eating breakfast? How is heating up an egg "cooking"? Did everybody take time out of their day to patronize Riker?

I just want to say that I literally laughed out loud at this.

 

[Zzoram]

I always skip the Vic Fontaine episodes when I rewatch DS9.

In fact, I only really watch the few strong character development episodes in the first 2 seasons, and then only Dominion-related episodes once they are introduced.

 

[Keyser Soze]

People don't like the way Avery acts for Sisko, and hate Fontaine episode?

I think this thread is wrong. So damn wrong.

 

[Sickboy007]

A lot of the acting in DS9 is really atrocious. Trek has never been about good acting, of course - the main cast in every series consists of not-quite-actors - but for some reason I just can't abide it in DS9.

Thankfully for every Siddig and Visitor and Brooks there's a Meaney and Auberjonois and Alaimo to make things better.

Siddig is a strange case, when he's given good material he's fine and some of my favorite ds9 exchanges are with him, but when he has to deliver questionable material he just doesn't give a fuck and it shows. And unfortunately, Bashir has some of the worst development of the main cast.

edit: i like all Fontaine episodes.

 

[maharg]

I always skip the Vic Fontaine episodes when I rewatch DS9.

In fact, I only really watch the few strong character development episodes in the first 2 seasons, and then only Dominion-related episodes once they are introduced.

Pretty much the only way to watch it. Not like the stupid boring one-offs actually contribute to anything in this show anyways. In TNG those are forgivable, that's the way the show is. In DS9 it aspired to be much more.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Pretty much the only way to watch it. Not like the stupid boring one-offs actually contribute to anything in this show anyways. In TNG those are forgivable, that's the way the show is. In DS9 it aspired to be much more.

And yet so many eps are pointless filler. That's one of my main complaints about DS9. I don't expect every ep to be major story arc or anything, but damn there is a lot of filler that gets in the way and the filler usually isn't good.

 

[benjipwns]

Siddig is a strange case, when he's given good material he's fine and some of my favorite ds9 exchanges are with him, but when he has to deliver questionable material he just doesn't give a fuck and it shows.

I've seen people try to argue this is a "tell" about his genetic engineering, even though they made that shit up later in the series.

On the upside, he apparently originally came in to read for the part of Sisko.

And yet so many eps are pointless filler. That's one of my main complaints about DS9. I don't expect every ep to be major story arc or anything, but damn there is a lot of filler that gets in the way and the filler usually isn't good.

They never really had full support to go full near serial until the end. Worf and all the Klingon stuff was forced on them. Berman infamously wanted the entire Dominion War to last like three or four episodes. Making the Maquis sympathetic was really frowned on. They didn't get budget because of TNG and then saw it go to Voyager (but the money thrown at CGI for that wound up helping them down the road) so they could launch UPN. So on and so forth.

 

[Marty Chinn]

They never really had full support to go full near serial until the end. Worf and all the Klingon stuff was forced on them. Berman infamously wanted the entire Dominion War to last like three or four episodes. Making the Maquis sympathetic was really frowned on. They didn't get budget because of TNG and then saw it go to Voyager (but the money thrown at CGI for that wound up helping them down the road) so they could launch UPN. So on and so forth.

I understand all that but it doesn't excuse it to me. TNG was pretty much devoid of story arc but had so many compelling stand alone episodes because the whole series was more or less stand alone. With DS9, it felt far more it was either great cuz of the story arc or it was lame filler rather than compelling individual eps. That's not to say there weren't any good stand alone eps, but it always felt like that usually wasn't the case and you were just sitting through filler waiting to get back to the good stuff. The lows and the bad elements of DS9 is why I think people overrate it.

 

[benjipwns]

I wasn't necessarily excusing it but DS9 was the step-child. TNG had all the writers together and they got split up between DS9 and VOY and shuffled back and forth for some time. Plus some people were being pulled off to work on Generations.

DS9 has peaks and valleys, but it has the highest peaks of all the series, and doesn't have the long, never ending, why do the Kazon control so much space when they're warring against one another, Borg? BORG! BORG?!? Boredg, "Hey guyz it's me the Queen, what's Seven up to?", BORG CHILDREN!, valleys of Voyager.

I agree, DS9's one-offs later on become "valleys" simply because they're time away from the arcs, even if they aren't any worse than an average late seasons TNG episode.

Forgot to ramble on the stuff like Vic and baseball, IIRC, those were like a lot of the holodeck episodes in TNG/VOY done for the cast to fill some time doing something stupid fun. (Also cheap!) I seem to remember that being the reason they did so many mirror universe episodes as well. (And didn't the Enterprise crew say they had wished they had done those so much earlier for similar reasons?)

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I just watched STVI for the first time in a looooong time last night, and I'd forgotten how pretty much every set was just a redressed TNG set.

The one that blew my mind was learning the President's office was Ten Forward with a curtain covering the windows.

 

[The Librarian]

Siddig is a strange case, when he's given good material he's fine and some of my favorite ds9 exchanges are with him, but when he has to deliver questionable material he just doesn't give a fuck and it shows. And unfortunately, Bashir has some of the worst development of the main cast.

I'd actually give that honor to Jadzia. Bashir underwent a lot of growth throughout the series in his relationships (Garak and O'Brien), and personally too. The man went from being this unlikeable, overly-talkative, enthusiastic, egotistical, and naive "boy" to being highly respected, more down-to-earth, with a lot of experience.

Compare and contrast the Bashir in "Emissary" to "Nor the Battle, to the Strong," and the difference is pretty stark.

Here's a video to help my point. Can you see the Bashir in Season 5/6/7 doing any of this? I know people don't like Bashir in the first couple of seasons because he's annoying, but I really enjoy him because of that. He's so annoying in the most hilarious way because the cast expresses as much disdain as the audience. I have a grin the entire time throughout this scene.

Kira: "I was very impressed, Doctor."
Bashir: "As well you should be."

Then Kira's "Did you just say that?" face has me rolling. :lol

 

[Walshicus]

I keep bumping into Siddig here in Chichester (England). Really weird. Think he must live nearby.

 

[The Librarian]

I keep bumping into Siddig here in Chichester (England). Really weird. Think he must live nearby.

Get me an autograph. No. Seriously.

 

[Mgoblue201]

I understand all that but it doesn't excuse it to me. TNG was pretty much devoid of story arc but had so many compelling stand alone episodes because the whole series was more or less stand alone. With DS9, it felt far more it was either great cuz of the story arc or it was lame filler rather than compelling individual eps. That's not to say there weren't any good stand alone eps, but it always felt like that usually wasn't the case and you were just sitting through filler waiting to get back to the good stuff. The lows and the bad elements of DS9 is why I think people overrate it.

I agree that the "main story" (which is an ambiguous term and could mean many things) was so good that it made everything else difficult to sit through. But the writing on DS9 was good enough that I feel even the filler episodes had something to offer with their humor, warmth, etc. The only episodes I try to avoid are the mirror universe and ones that feature some kind of annoying gimmick such as One Little Ship, which should've ended after TNG.

Also Vic Fontaine is making me want to stop watching this show altogether. So awkward and forced.

Forced? James Darren is perfect for that role and plays it about as well as can be expected. The writing is decent and properly evokes the period. I also feel that the character is a natural extension of the EMH stuff established by Voyager. There are many terrible holodeck episodes, so it's a good thing that they tried to do something interesting with it instead of creating another episode in which it malfunctions.

One thing that DS9 did right was to celebrate human history rather than vilify it. Vic Fontaine was just one homage to the 20th century amongst many during the show's run.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I agree that the "main story" (which is an ambiguous term and could mean many things) was so good that it made everything else difficult to sit through. But the writing on DS9 was good enough that I feel even the filler episodes had something to offer with their humor, warmth, etc. The only episodes I try to avoid are the mirror universe and ones that feature some kind of annoying gimmick such as One Little Ship, which should've ended after TNG.

See that's my problem. I don't feel this way about most of the stand alone eps. A lot of the filler is just not good filler to me especially when you stack it up to your average TNG ep. Let's not forget that like the first three seasons alone was more crap than good too. I really think people get jaded from the highs of the Dominion War and stuff that happens halfway through the series and forget how much crap there was beforehand. Like I said before, the good stuff is really damn good stuff, but you've got to sit through a lot of dull stuff to get there. Granted I also hated the religious overtones of the Bajorans and Kira was grating so most eps relating to that stuff really didn't sit well for me, especially in the beginning.

 

[Escape Goat]

I was watching Ship In a Bottle with Moriarty and thought a book about The Doctor's attempt to bring him into the world would be interesting since hes all about hologram civil rights.

 

[Mgoblue201]

See that's my problem. I don't feel this way about most of the stand alone eps. A lot of the filler is just not good filler to me especially when you stack it up to your average TNG ep. Let's not forget that like the first three seasons alone was more crap than good too. I really think people get jaded from the highs of the Dominion War and stuff that happens halfway through the series and forget how much crap there was beforehand. Like I said before, the good stuff is really damn good stuff, but you've got to sit through a lot of dull stuff to get there. Granted I also hated the religious overtones of the Bajorans and Kira was grating so most eps relating to that stuff really didn't sit well for me, especially in the beginning.

The first few seasons of DS9 should not be a referendum on the series, just as the first few seasons of TNG should not be a referendum on that series. Besides, the first two or three seasons did not have the same story arcs that developed later on in the show, so the concept of "filler" was less pronounced. Besides the occasional two or three episode arc, everything was essentially stand-alone. Once the series emerged from its rough start, I think that the quality as a whole vastly improved, even the "filler". I loved most of the holosuite and Ferengi episodes (and also the one Morn episode, which was filler in any traditional sense of the word but still very cleverly written). And if they weren't very good, it's because of bad writing and not because it's filler material.