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[Bloodbeard]

DS9 gets better at around season 3.

I just finished DS9 and am a little bummed to not have any new episodes to watch. I've started the Next Generation and am 6 episodes in...I hope this gets better because it's no where as good as DS9.

 

[maharg]

Just saw the first episode of ST: DS9. It was solid, I guess. Certainly better than the Babylon 5 pilot, and effects/sets wise it looks pretty good for a show from '93. Will watch more.

But god, I hate Sisko's actor. He's very... theatrical. Please tell me he gets better.

Pretty much stays like that the whole series.

 

[AMUSIX]

Just saw the first episode of ST: DS9. It was solid, I guess. Certainly better than the Babylon 5 pilot, and effects/sets wise it looks pretty good for a show from '93. Will watch more.

But god, I hate Sisko's actor. He's very... theatrical. Please tell me he gets better.

Stays that way...and the writers start feeding it as well. Some episodes it's really over the top. I'm watching the series for the first time right now, just starting season 7. Story-wise, it's the best ST, and there are some awesome characters, but there are some truly shit ones as well. Overall, I think I still prefer TNG, even thought it's very 'episode in a bottle'.

 

[The Librarian]

Just saw the first episode of ST: DS9. It was solid, I guess. Certainly better than the Babylon 5 pilot, and effects/sets wise it looks pretty good for a show from '93. Will watch more.

But god, I hate Sisko's actor. He's very... theatrical. Please tell me he gets better.

He gets better at it. He slides comfortably in the role by S3, thereabouts.

 

[AMUSIX]

DS9 gets better at around season 3.

I just finished DS9 and am a little bummed to not have any new episodes to watch. I've started the Next Generation and am 6 episodes in...I hope this gets better because it's no where as good as DS9.

TNG takes about as long as DS9 took to get good (that is, Season 3). Do know that Season 2 was done during a writer's strike, and so they pulled a bunch of scripts from the never-launched 'Star Trek 2'...and they are terrible. Also, there's a cast replacement in season 2 that absolutely sucks.

That said, the best TNG episodes are the best ST episodes.

 

[Hawkian]

He gets better at it. He slides comfortably in the role by S3, thereabouts.

He's very comfortable by the end of the series, wouldn't you say?

 

[Qwomo]

If anything Avery Brooks gets worse as the show goes on.

 

[maharg]

TNG takes about as long as DS9 took to get good (that is, Season 3). Do know that Season 2 was done during a writer's strike, and so they pulled a bunch of scripts from the never-launched 'Star Trek 2'...and they are terrible. Also, there's a cast replacement in season 2 that absolutely sucks.

That said, the best TNG episodes are the best ST episodes.

The cribbing from ST2 started a lot earlier than that. I'm pretty sure most of the first half of S1 was retooled pitches or scripts from that project. Will Riker and Troy are also basically just renamed versions of Will Decker and Ilya from ST2 and ST:TMP.

 

[Hawkian]

If anything Avery Brooks gets worse as the show goes on.

Well, I can't really vouch for the last season, I barely remember it at all, but I remember him seeming to enjoy the role toward the middle of the run.

 

[Trurl]

TNG takes about as long as DS9 took to get good (that is, Season 3). Do know that Season 2 was done during a writer's strike, and so they pulled a bunch of scripts from the never-launched 'Star Trek 2'...and they are terrible. Also, there's a cast replacement in season 2 that absolutely sucks.

That said, the best TNG episodes are the best ST episodes.

Pulaski was great but underutilized. I wish she had stayed on the show longer.

 

[AMUSIX]

Pulaski was great but underutilized. I wish she had stayed on the show longer.

I liked Crusher, and especially liked what she became once the writers found her character. Pulaski is your friend's know-it-all bitch mom. Almost everything she did was just so grating.

 

[Qwomo]

Pulaski is my waifu.

 

[Slayven]

I liked Crusher, and especially liked what she became once the writers found her character. Pulaski is your friend's know-it-all bitch mom. Almost everything she did was just so grating.

Her force beef with Data really chapped my ass.

 

[Trurl]

Her force beef with Data really chapped my ass.

She was just getting to know him. Her reaction to Data is akin to the way I try to trick any chatbot I encounter. Her growing appreciation for Data would have been a satisfying story arc.

Pulaski is one of those hard edged people who actually has a heart of gold. The real bastard of the Enterprise is Riker.

 

[DrForester]

Pulaski wasn't great, but she was just a carbon copy of McCoy, and McCoy was awesome. I'd rather have a McCoy clone than the bore that was Dr. Crusher.

 

[benjipwns]

Her force beef with Data really chapped my ass.

But everyone loved Spock and McCoy in the original and the show was missing a grumpy doctor!

EDIT: ha, DrForester got there first.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Chuck's Trek review this week is the brilliant Ship in a Bottle.

Brilliant episode with a magnificent guest star. Chuck manages to somehow raise a fair comparison between Professor Moriarty and Khan.

 

[Trurl]

Pulaski wasn't great, but she was just a carbon copy of McCoy, and McCoy was awesome. I'd rather have a McCoy clone than the bore that was Dr. Crusher.

Fair enough. She didn't really do anything to warrant being called "great" but she did have potential in my view. Other than Picard, Data and Geordi, she was the best acted main character from season 2.

 

[SpoonyBard]

Just saw the first episode of ST: DS9. It was solid, I guess. Certainly better than the Babylon 5 pilot, and effects/sets wise it looks pretty good for a show from '93. Will watch more.

But god, I hate Sisko's actor. He's very... theatrical. Please tell me he gets better.

Yeah, the B5 pilot was way worse than the actual series, while DS9 pilot did a decent job setting up the series. But when things get going B5 does everything so much better. The main plot in DS9 feels pale in comparison, which may be the reason I prefer TNG and TOS above it. And Even Voyager at the time, although it hasn't aged well at all...

 

[spidye]

Chuck's Trek review this week is the brilliant Ship in a Bottle.

Brilliant episode with a magnificent guest star. Chuck manages to somehow raise a fair comparison between Professor Moriarty and Khan.

I just recently found out that he's the same guy who played niles the butler in The Nanny.
blowed my mind.

 

[user_nat]

I just recently found out that he's the same guy who played niles the butler in The Nanny.
blowed my mind.

Really?

It's pretty obvious.. (if you've seen the Nanny anyhow)

 

[spidye]

Really?

It's pretty obvious.. (if you've seen the Nanny anyhow)

I've seen the Nanny but I was way too young to make the association.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I never made the connection; I don't think my brain ever had "Star Trek" and "The Nanny" in RAM at the same time until now.

 

[AAequal]

Started watching DS9 and I have a question. Why was Jake and Sisko's wife in the ship during Wolf 359? IIRC Wolf 359 was the last standout between Borgs and earth so it really wouldn't make sense to bring your family with you knowing what's ahead.

 

[DrForester]

Started watching DS9 and I have a question. Why was Jake and Sisko's wife in the ship during Wolf 359? IIRC Wolf 359 was the last standout between Borgs and earth so it really wouldn't make sense to bring your family with you knowing what's ahead.

Families are on board ship, they don't have the ability to offload civilians whenever a dangerous mission comes up. They couldn't do a saucer separation like the Enterprise D could.

 

[ShOcKwAvE]

Started watching DS9 and I have a question. Why was Jake and Sisko's wife in the ship during Wolf 359? IIRC Wolf 359 was the last standout between Borgs and earth so it really wouldn't make sense to bring your family with you knowing what's ahead.

Ships ordered immediately to Wolf 359 = no time to offload families, maybe?

 

[MC Safety]

Started watching DS9 and I have a question. Why was Jake and Sisko's wife in the ship during Wolf 359? IIRC Wolf 359 was the last standout between Borgs and earth so it really wouldn't make sense to bring your family with you knowing what's ahead.

It always seemed ridiculous to have families on starships.

 

[AAequal]

Families are on board ship, they don't have the ability to offload civilians whenever a dangerous mission comes up. They couldn't do a saucer separation like the Enterprise D could.

Maybe I just don't remeber TNG too well but didn't the Federation actually have time to prepare for Wolf 359?

 

[Htown]

Pulaski wasn't great, but she was just a carbon copy of McCoy, and McCoy was awesome. I'd rather have a McCoy clone than the bore that was Dr. Crusher.

I never got over her being such a ridiculous bitch to Data for no reason.

 

[Tobor]

I never got over her being such a ridiculous bitch to Data for no reason.

No reason? She had a very good reason. Whether you agree with her or not, it was an interesting debate.

 

[Zzoram]

I remember how she called him "Dah tah" and pissed him off by saying his name wrong.

 

[DiscoPower]

Just saw the first episode of ST: DS9. It was solid, I guess. Certainly better than the Babylon 5 pilot, and effects/sets wise it looks pretty good for a show from '93. Will watch more.

But god, I hate Sisko's actor. He's very... theatrical. Please tell me he gets better.

He grows on you.

 

[Kai Dracon]

He grows on you.

There's nothing quite like a Sisko vs Dukat HAM BATTLE.

 

[BattleMonkey]

It always seemed ridiculous to have families on starships.

Only certain ships were supposed to have family on them, like the Galaxy class ones which fit with their role.

 

[Htown]

No reason? She had a very good reason. Whether you agree with her or not, it was an interesting debate.

The debate is one thing. Her going out of her way to taunt him at every opportunity, disrespect him and basically go "HAHA YOU ARE WORTHLESS AND CAN'T DO ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU'RE A MACHINE", whether on or off duty, was something else.

Whatever she thought, he was third in command of the Enterprise.

 

[Jackpot]

Families are on board ship, they don't have the ability to offload civilians whenever a dangerous mission comes up. They couldn't do a saucer separation like the Enterprise D could.

I wouldn't try to rationalise it. It made no sense at all to bring families to conflict with the Borg. They'd have been safer even on board impulse-only shuttles in the middle of nowhere.

No reason? She had a very good reason. Whether you agree with her or not, it was an interesting debate.

The debate was settled before she arrived with The Measure of a Man. After that shitting on Data is just space racism and gross insubordination to a senior officer.

 

[benjipwns]

The debate was settled before she arrived with The Measure of a Man.

That came later than her introduction not before, it was when Data took care of her from the aging disease that she started to accept him which was before "Measure of a Man" as well. By the end of the season she was far friendlier to him.

 

[Tobor]

That came later than her introduction not before, it was when Data took care of her from the aging disease that she started to accept him which was before "Measure of a Man" as well. By the end of the season she was far friendlier to him.

Exactly. Pulaski's issues with Data lead quite nicely into "The Measure of a Man."

 

[Cheerilee]

Started watching DS9 and I have a question. Why was Jake and Sisko's wife in the ship during Wolf 359? IIRC Wolf 359 was the last standout between Borgs and earth so it really wouldn't make sense to bring your family with you knowing what's ahead.

Star Trek has always said that starships are sent out on multi-year missions. The crews are stuck on the ship with maybe some occasional shore leave. TNG suggested that some fool within Starfleet thought it would be a good idea to allow people to bring their families on board, so families wouldn't have to be separated for years at a time. Maybe it made sense because Starfleet in that era was at peace with everybody, even the Klingons. Picard notably thought this was a bad idea. The Enterprise-D seemed to be a test case for this idea, since it had the ability to dump it's civilians off in the saucer section for safety.

At some point, Starfleet thought it was safe enough, so they stopped designing ships that separated, and they allowed families to board any old ship.


Starfleet didn't have time to put together their defense against the Borg. They didn't have time to offload non-essentials. The Enterprise-D didn't even make it to the battlefield in time to help.

The real mistake was that Sisko only ordered the civilians to board the escape pods after his ship's destruction was imminent. But I guess that "battle stations" for a civilian means to go to your quarters and keep quiet, not to climb into an escape pod and wait for your side to lose the fight.

Edit: Yeah, thinking about it, when the ship was ordered to the line, they definitely should've put all the civilians into the escape pods and launched them behind the line towards Earth. Pick them up after the fight. It wouldn't have disturbed the ships battle-readyness.

 

[Bloodbeard]

I've just started Season 2 of TNG: is it revealed at some point why Picard doesn't like children? In the pilot, I remember him telling Riker that part of his job as second-in-command was to protect his image in the eyes of the children and families aboard whom he has little patience in dealing with... but there wasn't any real explaination for this character trait.

 

[maharg]

Don't think it's explicitly explained, but I think it probably has to do with his rivalry with his brother as expressed through Jean-Luc's focus on career and his brothers' focus on family. But I doubt that they had that really mapped out in season 1 and 2.

 

[benjipwns]

I think he's just uncomfortable around them. Plus dealing with Wesley who was sticking his nose into everything, coming on the bridge, falling in some flowers, etc.

 

[maharg]

Nah, he *really* had a hate-on for kids for the first few seasons. I think even before Wesley started getting into everything. Letting Wes on the bridge was the first act of softening along those lines, if anything.

 

[chiQ]

My assumption is that it's a deliberate flaw included to keep him real. His panache, intelligence, social skills, etc need leavening with a little weakness.

 

[Escape Goat]

Kids probably reminded him of the one thing he'd given up in his pursuit of Starfleet - a family. "I'm not a family man, Riker." He had several opportunities early in his career and he chose his career each time.

 

[ErasureAcer]

I thought Avery Brooks started acting a lot better when he shaved his head.

 

[Shouta]

Star Trek has always said that starships are sent out on multi-year missions. The crews are stuck on the ship with maybe some occasional shore leave. TNG suggested that some fool within Starfleet thought it would be a good idea to allow people to bring their families on board, so families wouldn't have to be separated for years at a time. Maybe it made sense because Starfleet in that era was at peace with everybody, even the Klingons. Picard notably thought this was a bad idea. The Enterprise-D seemed to be a test case for this idea, since it had the ability to dump it's civilians off in the saucer section for safety.

At some point, Starfleet thought it was safe enough, so they stopped designing ships that separated, and they allowed families to board any old ship.


Starfleet didn't have time to put together their defense against the Borg. They didn't have time to offload non-essentials. The Enterprise-D didn't even make it to the battlefield in time to help.

The real mistake was that Sisko only ordered the civilians to board the escape pods after his ship's destruction was imminent. But I guess that "battle stations" for a civilian means to go to your quarters and keep quiet, not to climb into an escape pod and wait for your side to lose the fight.

Edit: Yeah, thinking about it, when the ship was ordered to the line, they definitely should've put all the civilians into the escape pods and launched them behind the line towards Earth. Pick them up after the fight. It wouldn't have disturbed the ships battle-readyness.

The Federation also probably didn't expect to get massacred at Wolf 359 like they did either. I don't think they faced many if any situations where they took on a force so powerful that it ripped apart that many ships without an ounce of mercy. So not unloading civilians/families probably wasn't even within the scope of what they had predicted.

Families on starships isn't exactly a bad idea though. In most cases these ships aren't going to be facing a situation that requires heavy amounts of fighting. So having civs on board isn't a huge risk as long as they're not in the way. Also, remember that the Federation hadn't created a spaceship simply to fight until Sisko helped design the Defiant after Wolf 359. Every starship prior were multi-function vessels including housing families.

 

[maharg]

Also, remember that the Federation hadn't created a spaceship simply to fight until Sisko helped design the Defiant after Wolf 359. Every starship prior were multi-function vessels including housing families.

They were definitely creating warships in the TOS era. They just hadn't done so for a while.

 

[Shouta]

They were definitely creating warships in the TOS era. They just hadn't done so for a while.

I don't know TOS as well but I thought those were still multi-function vessels, i.e. held bigger facilities to do more things than just fight. The Defiant literally was stripped down to just fight, no recreational facilities, science labs, etc. Just lots and lots of weapons. It could just be the writers on DS9 forgetting or not clarifying further.

 

[DeadTrees]

I'll say this for DS9: It didn't treat Worf like the village idiot.