benjipwns
Banned
TNG's first season was basically setting the path for all these other sci-fi shows, so you won't run into most of the issues it had.
Although few of the series mentioned had anywhere near the budgets Trek got.
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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN
- Thread starter The Librarian
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Although few of the series mentioned had anywhere near the budgets Trek got.
SpoonyBard
Banned
And The Sky Full of Stars from the first season alone was much better than most of the more chaotic battles in later seasons. Sometimes less is more. I'd also argue that the "mostly black with some blue nebulae" backgrounds look better than the multi cloured mess they had on later seasons. And the explosions also got worse, but I think it was because they didn't have enough rendering time to do more complex explosions. There were just too many of them. If I remember correctly, Severed Dreams from season 3 was where they started simplifying the explosions...
Of course textured and lighting got better in later seasons, but they shouldn't have sacrified realism just to get more ships on screen at the same time...
edit: ok, maybe it was mainly season 4 where they had the messy looking space battles. I can't remember what happened in which episode all that well any longer.
You should be okay, but it's all setup. The show really takes off season 2.
Halfway through season 3 rewatch of DS9. Gotdamn is there a better character than Garak?! It has been a long time since my first watch. I'm really hating Bashir. He just seems so unlike any of the other characters. Everyone else has flaws or interesting back stories. With him it is just "arrogance". It isn't a humanizing flaw. It just makes him a chore. /shrug
benjipwns
Banned
Doesn't need the season, no, there isn't.
Henchmen21
Banned
Yup. It was probably the closest thing to a Wing Commander TV show we were ever going to get (that crappy cartoon notwithstanding).
This is definitely something to keep in mind when watching any non-trek show from the 90s. Before ST:TNG, it was thought that space operas were dead. And then after ST:TNG finally picked up steam it was still thought that they were dead, just that Star Trek was an exception.
So shows like B5, S:AAB, and even the shows made in Roddenberry's name after he died (Andromeda and Earth: Final Conflict) had painfully low budgets because they were perceived as extremely risky. It meant they had to use CG before CG was really ready (TNG was still using models almost exclusively), so most of them have effects that look only a little above a good looking Dreamcast game.
On that note, Andromeda and E:FC both had pretty good runs early on, but got retooled into shit later on. Same with SeaQuest: DSV. Of all the SF shows that ran for more than a couple of seasons in that era, I think B5 is the only one that maintained its integrity all the way through, and even it wound up getting screwed by questions of whether or not it would have a fifth season.
I don't understand why they improved so much over season 3 and 4, and screwed up the very endings to those seasons both times. The old show runners interfering in the finales with bad ideas because they could, maybe?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I think it would have been an interesting payoff, given how Benny was worked into the season 6 finale/season 7 premiere. I'm sure it would have been way too high concept for Star Trek though.
D
Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
Alright, thanks for the answers. I'll add B5 to my list of SF shows to check out.
Wrote something on my blog that's Star Trek related, thought I would share:
Star Trek's Finest: The Inner Light
Star Trek's Finest: The Inner Light
Escape Goat
Member
Hey, that ship almost looks like its in scale. You mean every ship wasn't a perspective shot making itlook like every ship was comparable in size to Ent-D?!
Henchmen21
Banned
What ep is that from? Season 2 or 3?
Also, found this (even though it's like 4 years old) while searching for some star trek stuff off youtube. Some guys home movie of when he went to Monteray Bay while they were just happening to film IV there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq_Pd8DoqKA
Also, found this (even though it's like 4 years old) while searching for some star trek stuff off youtube. Some guys home movie of when he went to Monteray Bay while they were just happening to film IV there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq_Pd8DoqKA
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Halfway through S3 of DS9, too. Beginning to get very good, indeed. First time I've watched it since falling in love with the re-runs back when I was kid in the late 90s/early 00s. How awesome is it to find out that your nostalgia is not only correct, but also not fully appreciative of the actual quality.
THAT'S what was bothering me so much about those ship scenes! I don't know why I didn't think of that before. The Galaxy was supposed to be fucking huge but everything they came across was also big!
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Been thinking about making a LTTP thread, but since this one popped up:
Pretty much watched all of Voyager recently. Mostly pick and choose rather than straight through, but I ended up seeing most every episode. I liked Voyager quite a bit. 7 of 9 is way better than Kes so the latter seasons end up being a lot better than the early ones aside from choice episodes. Doctor is great, but I loved him before from Stargate.
Currently on DS9. Kind of more hit or miss, but I'm only on the first season, nearing the end.
Dax is awesome, Bashir is entertaining. Armin Shimmerman is interesting to watch after seeing him in Buffy. The pilot episode was pretty damn weak though.
Pretty much watched all of Voyager recently. Mostly pick and choose rather than straight through, but I ended up seeing most every episode. I liked Voyager quite a bit. 7 of 9 is way better than Kes so the latter seasons end up being a lot better than the early ones aside from choice episodes. Doctor is great, but I loved him before from Stargate.
Currently on DS9. Kind of more hit or miss, but I'm only on the first season, nearing the end.
Dax is awesome, Bashir is entertaining. Armin Shimmerman is interesting to watch after seeing him in Buffy. The pilot episode was pretty damn weak though.
Sephiroth503
Member
Stick with DS9, it puts Voyager to shame in the character department and does a better job of having an overall grander (i.e. continuous) plot
SniperHunter
Banned
yeah DS9 is the best. I don't like the captain that much in DS9 (his acting was more miss than hit) but the rest of the cast really awesome. Jadzia is beautiful, the doctor is a pervert, Garrack was just brilliant and the Quark vs Odo stuff was simply hilarious. I loved DS9 so much!
The domnion war saga was really impressive as well, great characters for that one.
I think the DS9 pilot was probably the best one out of all the series. Juggled character introduction and interaction with plot pretty well.
Winnie the Pimp
Member
Just watched the Captains and while the beginning was pretty meh, it ended well and i liked it overall... made me feel pretty nostalgic about the whole thing but it also made me realize i REALLY want to rewatch DS9 as i didn't give it the proper attention it deserves the first time through!
I noticed there seem to be only crappy boxsets out there on amazon except ONE which is like 700 bucks no thanks...
Will it ever be on BluRay?
I noticed there seem to be only crappy boxsets out there on amazon except ONE which is like 700 bucks no thanks...
Will it ever be on BluRay?
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
As someone in the SA Star Trek thread said, "In my mind, Voyager is a training simulation, and the only way to get an A+ is to pull a phaser on Janeway when she tries to make a boneheaded decision."
Sir_Crocodile
Member
So she doesn't make it through "Caretaker" then.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Essentially, everyone failed the test.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
yeah DS9 is the best. I don't like the captain that much in DS9 (his acting was more miss than hit) but the rest of the cast really awesome. Jadzia is beautiful, the doctor is a pervert, Garrack was just brilliant and the Quark vs Odo stuff was simply hilarious. I loved DS9 so much!
The domnion war saga was really impressive as well, great characters for that one.
Yeah I just started Season 2 and got through the opening 3 episode arc for that. Pretty good stuff. Still skipped a couple episodes that seemed like duds from Season 1, but I read the plots on Memory-Alpha. Jadzia really is attractive and Quark vs. Odo stuff definitely is great. Sisko reminds me of someone I know, so I like him a little more than I would otherwise, but he's definitely pretty boring compared to Janeway or Picard.
I'd have to watch the other pilots again now to compare. The DS9 pilot wasn't necessarily bad, but it wasn't the type of plotline that was compelling to me.
Hah. Yeah, Janeway doesn't make the best tactical decisions, but the thing I've noticed is that all the captains are pretty much the same character anyway.
JFC. Just watched Episode 2 of season 4: Visitor. This is why a rewatch can be so good some times. My father died a few years back and this episode hit me like a ton of bricks. It obviously didn't have the same impact the first time I saw it. I probably wrote it off as "boring". Damn.
GameplayWhore
Member
Wow, I have the exact opposite opinion. Hell, even the same captains are pretty dramatically different at different times. TV Picard is more Romeo whereas film Picard is more Rambo. Early Kirk is Mr. Fisticuffs with a side of optimistic philosophy while late Kirk is mopey and introspective. Younger Dad Sisko is pretty damned different from Older Hawk Asskicker Sisko. You pretty much nailed it on Janeway and Archer, but they didn't really focus much on developing most characters in the latter shows.
And don't get me started on 2009 Kirk…
edit: "Romeo" as in "Prone to soliloquoy and exaggerated hand motions and emotions a la theatre", not as in young stupid guy who kills himself over a crush.
lunarworks
Member
You can't pull in enough at the box office on nerds alone. They had to make some... "alterations" in order to make it more appealing to the mass market.
As for Sisko's personality, all those years on DS9 would definitely change a man.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Davey Cakes
Member
About a year after I watched DS9, I started watching Babylon 5. Right now I'm in the 5th season and yeah, you should check the show out. While it takes place on a space station, it's handled entirely different than DS9 (or any Trek show, for that manner).
Well, maybe I shouldn't say that. The first season, to me, wasn't as rough as people make it out to be, but it's semi-serial in a Trek sort of way and it's quality ranges between the best of TNG Season 1 and the best of TNG Season 2, so mostly lower-tier in the grand scheme of the show, but still entirely watchable. After finishing Season 1, B5 is hard to recommend, but by Season 3 it's an easy recommendation because the leap in quality and the buildup are really noticeable and keep you engaged.
S1 is all setup, so you have to be patient. I approached it the same way I did with DS9, just sitting back and taking in the setting and characters. Seasons 2-4 are mostly serial and involve a lot of great character arcs and payoffs. Keep your eye out for the characters of Londo and G'kar, because their arc in particular is very satisfying. I haven't finished Season 5 (only 8 episodes in), but I'm accepting it as what it is. Feels like a return to the semi-serial ways of Season 1, but with better quality production. I don't mind it, but some people don't care for it. Then again, I hear the second half is way better than the first.
So yeah, in my experience with B5, it's every bit as worth it as Star Trek shows like DS9 and TNG, which I heavily enjoyed.
I'm going to be honest and say...I actually skipped The Gathering and jumped right in with Season 1 Episode 1. Didn't really hurt the experience, since I would eventually gather the important plot points later on.
BattleMonkey
Member
Was better than Voyager still
Word.
I'll take Enterprise over Voyager any day of the week.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
I should clarify. (Note that I never/haven't watched much of TOS.) While they sometimes do have dramatically different personalities, interests, and quirks, I feel like the way they all react to situations is very similar. Maybe it's just that they're all captains (same position) and have the Starfleet training that would all be the same/similar. They all tend to take a very diplomatic route - there's hardly anything they do that could be considered "bad" and rarely anything that's in the grey area except for the occasional juke/staring contest episode.
Escape Goat
Member
Its been a loooong road getting from here to there!!
Wheeljack539
Member
Never saw it coming, but I feel like I'm the only one who not only liked it but loved it.
I don't get the hate.
Captain Ganz
Banned
How much of DS9 have you seen? I would argue that towards the end of DS9 Sisko's philosophy was nearly the polar opposite of someone like picard. Sisko does some crazily questionable shit as DS9 goes on.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
I'm only at the start of Season 2, so if he does change dramatically, I've yet to see it.
And another thing: The DS9 Title Credits + Music are kinda ass compared to Voyager and TNG. I don't know what the consensus is, but that's my opinion. I skip the intros 99% of the time though except for the start of a new season though, just to check if anything changed. Interestingly enough, Star Trek isn't a show that ever really did that (changing the credits.)
Voyager and DS9 both have incredibly boring and tired intros music. As much as Faith of the Heart was a stupid choice for Enterprise, I at least give them credit for trying something different.
GameplayWhore
Member
The theme to "Star Trek: Enterprise" rather succinctly describes what the show should have been. I also have absolutely no problem with it and in fact think that it's pretty snappy. And it helps that the previous three shows were really getting samey after what was initially a pretty stark departure to the more vocalized (at least initially) Classic Trek series theme.
I think that people didn't like that it was apparently a pop song. I don't really follow popular culture much, so it was the first time I'd heard it.
He does some pretty big dick moves. In vague but spoilery terms:
He becomes an close accessory to the assassination of a Federation ally, and he made a planet's atmosphere uninhabitable to people who were basically the good guys essentially just to prove a point
edit:
SF Debris occasionally has some really good insight as to the faults of each of the Star Trek series. He does a good job of putting things in perspective as to certain fundamental issues with both Voyager and Enterprise. I wish I knew which particular episodes to point you to, though, because mostly he just does bad impressions of Janeway's voice, and it's just now and then that he really goes into heavy detail on his concerns.
lunarworks
Member
I didn't mind Enterprise. It was waaaay better than Voyager.
You thought the characters were unlikeable? How in gods name can you hate Trip, or Dr. Flox
.Now the ending was bad, but they got canceled and probably panicked, I don't blame them. One episode really makes you hate the series that much ?
You thought the characters were unlikeable? How in gods name can you hate Trip, or Dr. Flox
Now the ending was bad, but they got canceled and probably panicked, I don't blame them. One episode really makes you hate the series that much ?
The whole last season or two were great. The stuff with Andorians and the Nazi stuff were great. All of the mirror universe episodes were great as well.
I really liked first episode as well, Broken Bow. Shame that temporal stuff went no where.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Few of his best reviews for Enterprise and Voyager that go into things would be...
Caretaker - All the things wrong with the show are here and keep going...
Also recommend his Voyager Q Episode Reviews.
Death Wish, The Q And The Grey, Q2
Voyager: The Thaw - Shows that he will give Voyager credit when it does well.
Enterpise: Dear Doctor
Enterprise: A Night In Sickbay
Good Voyager Vs. DS9 Set. Looking and comparing DS9 and Voyagers 30th anniversary episodes. There's a 2nd video below both of these comparing the two.
Voyager: Flashback
DS9: Trials and Tribbleations
Also recommend the following review for just being totally hilarious at times.
Voyager: One
DS9: The Siege of AR-588
Most of the Doctor Voyager episodes were great. (Not the ones involving him singing...but the ones where he takes charge/command) Those and the Q episodes were definitely stand outs. I also enjoyed all of the time travel episodes that involved the timeship.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
They're REALLY not. Sisko is a very different character from Picard. He's far more personal with those close to him, he's shown to be far more ruthless (evidenced by the way he dealt with the Maquis on more than one occasion), and the show paints him as a competent war time captain, rather than a diplomat (which is what Picard was). Janeway is just a bonehead. It's a shame too. I would love to see a Star Trek show with a competent, professional, ruthlessly intelligent female captain.