GameplayWhore
Member
Yes, that's his M.O. He's sort of like Plinkett without the stupid voice or murdering people. He prefers to do reviews of the bad episodes. He has no problems praising the good ones, though.
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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
Yes, that's his M.O. He's sort of like Plinkett without the stupid voice or murdering people. He prefers to do reviews of the bad episodes. He has no problems praising the good ones, though.
Janeway: "I have to follow the prime directive!"
Kirk: "I have to follow my penis"
Sisko: "I'm the most well rounded out of all the Captains"
Picard: "No you aren't Sisko, I'm clearly better because I can play the flute"
Sisko: "/facepalm"
The first three are about right. I didn't really know what to say about Picard. Sisko seems like a much more well rounded person as he does everything Picard does and more and still takes care of his family. I don't really count Archer as a Captain since he really didn't do much.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
He's currently doing a 3 part review for a DS9 set of episodes, and one of the major point he touches on about Voyager is that when it came to playing it save, DS9 would usually chose to take a risk, while Voyager writers would play it safe.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Kirk listens to Spock and Bones and makes pretty good decisions based on their opinions. Sure he likes the ladies, but most of the time it doesn't interfere with his job as the captain.
Picard is the most intelligent, charismatic and has more intergrity than the rest combined. First season Picard was a bit too arrogant, but he seems to soften quite a bit later on after dealing with Q and Data...
Sisko is bit like Kirk, but lacks the charisma. Can't say I like him very much, the actor is not very good.
Janeway... maybe she's not as crazy and unstable as the SF Debris guy makes her be, but she's not that far off. Her decisions as the captain certainly seem to be dogmatic (to Federation ideas) at times, and sometimes she just does shit that no-one else agrees with (Tuvix). Kirk and Picard could bend the Federation rules when needed, but Janeway doesn't.
Archer is also pretty pretty poor captain. He seems annoyed at trivial things all the time, and more interested of his dog than the wellbeing of his crew. The character is pretty boring, but I can't really blame it on the actor, because he was great in Quantum Leap.
Archer was a bit of a boring character in the sense that they consistently failed miserably to give him depth outside of his Captaincy, but I feel like the struck a very good, and often missed or under appreciated, tone with a lot of the crew in Enterprise. They were sort of the halfway point between the kind of people in TOS onwards and our own NASA space program. I was perfectly fine with a crew that was a little more 'milk toast' or professional when contrasted against the far more emotive ideologues of the future.
benjipwns
Banned
Janeway's the best at forcing her morals onto everyone around her including long established cultures and lecturing them as if they should know better.
Even after being told by future Starfleet to knock it off (not to mention her own Starfleet's regulations) she doesn't give two fucks about fucking with the timeline to benefit herself.
Even after being told by future Starfleet to knock it off (not to mention her own Starfleet's regulations) she doesn't give two fucks about fucking with the timeline to benefit herself.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I agree with a lot of this (I still think Kirk has more charisma in his pinky than Picard has in his whole body). What I really love about Kirk in TOS was the way he included Bones and Spock in a lot of the decision making. He values their input, and considers them equals (despite them being his subordinates). Picard tends to crowd source solutions, but then kinda already has his mind made up anyway. The only time he seems to really care what someone else might have to say is when Troi can sense someone's emotions. I find Riker incredibly likable, but he spends much of the series being Picard's plucky sidekick, rather than his equal and foil. I think Picard is a great character, but he's not as likable as Kirk, plain and simple.
Not to mention his stupid concept of "the captain's appearance", and how he always has to stay abreast of his crew. The episode that made me dislike Picard the most was the one where he has to get his artificial heart replaced, and he spend 50% of the episode bitching about getting it replaced, and the other half accosting Wesley. He does tell the story of the artificial heart near the end of the episode which brings them closer in a cool way, but he's like a grouchy old man even at the conclusion. Lighten up, dude!
(also, let's not forget that it technically took Picard an entire lifetime to learn that shitty flute, so it's not like he's some sort of artistic genius.)
Which makes her literally the worst Starfleet captain.
Thus the hilarious secret canon that Janeway is a Starfleet Academy simulation designed to test whether or not an officer would commit mutiny in the name of the prime directive. I would have turned a phaser on her by episode 3.
For any Aussie Trekkers, there is going to be a special screening of the Blu-ray cuts of TNG episodes "Where No One Has Gone Before" and "Datalore" on July 27th in select cinemas.
http://www.sharmillfilms.com.au/?p=1846
http://www.sharmillfilms.com.au/?p=1846
SpoonyBard
Banned
Picard keeps a bit of distance to the rest of the crew, and maybe that makes him not as likeable as Kirk. Picard is a faulty character in some ways, but I don't think anyone else could have delivered these lines as well as this character:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh_t2fFF3B0&feature=related
(sorry, random youtube video)
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
This is what makes Picard such a strong character, and why I find him a great captain. What I liked so much about his portrayal is that he wasn't just Kirk 2.0. That's what made him so great.
viewtifulsub
Member
For any Aussie Trekkers, there is going to be a special screening of the Blu-ray cuts of TNG episodes "Where No One Has Gone Before" and "Datalore" on July 27th in select cinemas.
http://www.sharmillfilms.com.au/?p=1846
Considering I still hate myself for missing the Blade Runner screening a few years back, I won't miss this. Will be at a Sydney screening.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
That episode was one of the ones that made me like picard the most! That bit at the end where everyone claps him, and he says in the absolute most biting way possible "I beg your pardon."
My captain thoughts:
Kirk - The best. he comes off as a frontier leader, one of twelve elites making decisions that can change federation policy, unyielding against aggresion, flexible with the prime directive when he thinks it is against the best for a people, and can make decisions that hurt him personally when he thinks it's the right thing to do. The dynamic with him, mccoy & spock is brilliant.
Picard - uber straight laced early on, but has dignity & gravitas, and comes off sort of as a gentleman explorer. The force of his personality can often mute most of the other characters though, TNG could easily have been called "the picard & data show"(that would probably have been a better show). His uneasiness around kids is a bit odd though.
Sisko - does what he thinks is right no matter what, and no matter how far it has to go - however sometimes this bleeds off into obsession. Very early on told Kira that if she went over his head again, he'd have hers on a platter, which set the tone for how much crap Sisko was willing to tolerate - none.
Janeway - genocidal mass murderer
Archer - sam was in there a long time that jump
You have no soul, clearly.
He was an old man who spent his life on his career and on ships, and he gave up every chance he had for a normal social life (some of which he regrets), because the law of his day said "No families or children on starships. Too dangerous. Trained and assigned Starfleet officers only."
And after a lifetime of living a life of dicipline and routine, Starfleet decides "Nah, it's fine. Lets let families on board. Picard's ship first." And now he's charged with the safety of children and they're running around playing hide-and-go-seek in his ship's jefferies tubes, and he wants to smack them but he can't. Parents are reading bedtime stories when they should be eating or sleeping or standing at their posts. And he can't even retreat from this unfamiliar nightmare because they're going as far as to step on his bridge without his permission.
He was able to deal with Wesley once he made him an Ensign. When he got trapped in that turbolift with kids, he was able to relate with them by giving them ranks. He doesn't know children, he knows Starfleet officers.
benjipwns
Banned
I wish I was first officer in charge of radishes.
He also showed he could calm them (using the song, focusing them on a deliberate task, using rewards, etc.) and did infact know them to an extent from their science projects.
When he got changed INTO a kid, he also recognized how to organize them (or at least Alexander) and exploit the situation as a kid to gain access to Riker.
pock3tmonster
Banned
For any Aussie Trekkers, there is going to be a special screening of the Blu-ray cuts of TNG episodes "Where No One Has Gone Before" and "Datalore" on July 27th in select cinemas.
http://www.sharmillfilms.com.au/?p=1846
Nova did a similar screening of the first couple of episodes from the original series when the first season was released on Blu-ray. As someone who'd never experienced Star Trek in either film or television format, it made a fan of me. I definitely won't be missing this.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
That's a good point.
I watched all of TNG again recently, the Picard and kids things was played up in the first season presumably to give him more of a defined personality. I'm sure during writing someone was like "I feel like Picard needs one more defining personality trait" and someone else was "I know, let's have him dislike kids and make it a sort of running gag!"
Picard is kind of an asshole for the first few episodes, and his dislike of kids seems a bit forced, like a gimmick that was forced on the character. But later it softened a lot and became much more natural.
Picard is kind of an asshole for the first few episodes, and his dislike of kids seems a bit forced, like a gimmick that was forced on the character. But later it softened a lot and became much more natural.
For any Aussie Trekkers, there is going to be a special screening of the Blu-ray cuts of TNG episodes "Where No One Has Gone Before" and "Datalore" on July 27th in select cinemas.
http://www.sharmillfilms.com.au/?p=1846
So does anyone know if this is happening in the UK at all?
benjipwns
Banned
They also needed a reason to keep Wesley off the bridge even though he was saving the ship or getting condemned to death every week.
People like Troi were training him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiKwAS1qaCk
Admiral Blackwell is oldschool.
benjipwns
Banned
One thing I like about what TNG did with the cast is I can imagine Riker doing that type of thing with Picard all the time. Especially because there's episodes where Picard does the same stuff to Data or Worf, minor teasing.
The other captains outside of Kirk were sorta split off. Though Sisko had his own version of relationships and joking around.
The other captains outside of Kirk were sorta split off. Though Sisko had his own version of relationships and joking around.
Sephiroth503
Member
Yeah pretty much agree with all this. I loved that Sisko took no crap, and the scenes with Eddington were just kickass IMO. Especially when
he poisoned the atmosphere just to get his man
And of course that episode in Season 6 - In the Pale Moonlight.
Awesome stuff.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Yeah, those two episodes were great(though sisko should really have got his knuckles rapped for the eddington stuff).
The other stuff that really solidifies that sisko for me is Rapture, where sisko
can see the future, and stops bajor joining, seriously annoying the federation, and is later found to be a prediction of the cardy/dominion alliance
all but tells worf to kill gowron
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I've been called worse!
No but seriously, I actually like Picard a lot as a captain, but as a human being, he's too stoic for my tastes. He makes for a great protagonist for the show, but in social situations, I end up liking Riker a lot more.
I agree with Sir_Crocodile. I think Kirk is the best.
Where No Man Has Gone Before is a great example. While Picard shares a lighthearted conversation with Riker maybe like, twice the entire series, Kirk is joking it up with both Mitchell and Spock the entire intro to the episode. It establishes him so well as a friendly but ultimately professional captain. He is like a frontier explorer. He's all about the danger and excitement of that exploration, but he never forgets that his crew is like his family. It's that familial connection he has with his crew that makes him infinitely more likable. There aren't a lot of protagonists that are both friendly and professional. They're either goofballs that make friends easily, or they're stoic, stuffy and professional. Kirk is a great mix of both.
That's what I was referencing before with Sisko. Picard would never do that. Ever. Sisko is painted as a wartime captain, and he does a stellar job of it. Picard would always go for a diplomatic solution, and if violence was the only path, he would always engage in trickery. I was actually surprised Sisko straight up poisoned the atmosphere. It rubbed me the wrong way the first time I saw that episode, actually.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I'd call Archer more of a genocidal maniac than Janeway.
ConfusingJazz
Member
So I started watching some of TNG season 1 over the weekend, and these early episodes are obsessed with sex, specifically aggressive female sexuality.
Of the first 7 episodes (8 if you separate Farpoint), 3 have a heavy reliance on intergalactic boning.
Of the first 7 episodes (8 if you separate Farpoint), 3 have a heavy reliance on intergalactic boning.
I like Kirk better too, but you listed some of Picard's best character moments and said they were crap.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Oh wow, they're doing the TNG screening in Toronto. Not exactly my favourite episodes, but I might as well go.
SniperHunter
Banned
Yes, I agree with you. I used to be a subscriber of his channlel on youtube, but he got rather annoying with the hate and over analysis. I like his rants on Nelix though, god he was so annoying!! Nelix = star trek equivalent of jar jar brinks
I am glad you are enjoying it, DS9 is one of the best sci-fi series I have seen. But I wouldnt skip any episodes though, theres some good stuff even in the worst of episodes in DS9
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I really don't think it's wrong to hate on Voyager. He's never been unfair to it, everything he says is valid. Janeways manic personality, the token Indian treatment of Chakotay. Ignoring Kim. It was not a good show and he calls them out on it.
SniperHunter
Banned
Agreed, I also loved Enterprise. I went from Voyager to Enterprise to TNG to DS9
Season 3 of Enterprise was incredible. cool story, cool aliens, nice arh. I especially loved the acting by the xen insect commander, very well done!
Neelix isn't even in the same ballpark as JarJar. I hate Voyager as much as the next guy, but come on.
But Voyager isn't in the same ballpark as the Star Wars Prequels, so it sort of works.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Yeah, I dunno. I think his best character moments are when he wrestles with his adherence to the prime directive, or when he defends Data's sentience in court.
Also, he is fucking AWESOME in Booby Trap. That's quintessential "Awesome Picard". (also, Booby Trap has the best soundtrack in TNG history) I think episodes like Power Play, Booby trap, and of course Best of Both Worlds, highlight what I like about Picard. Those are episodes that put his ability as a diplomat and a captain at the forefront, rather than his personal feelings, and when his personal feelings do become a main focus (like in Best of Both Worlds), he's left a bit fragile, and you see some real humanity seep through. Sometimes I think he's too uptight. Sometimes I love him. I kinda go back and forth about it.
I think the issue is that while I always agree with his decisions, I don't always agree with the way he converses with his crew. I 100% always agree with how Kirk deals with his crew. (Maybe I think Picard is TOO professional? Kirk doesn't give no shits)
Also, this evening I was watching that TOS episode "Mirror, Mirror". I assume this is the episode that spawned the cliche that one's evil twin would have a beard? I loved the concept that civilized men can pretend to be barbarians, but barbarians have no hope of pretending to be civilized men. It seems like a throwaway line by Spock, but it does a great job of quickly saying "Look how far we've all come from being fucking cavemen". That sash everyone got in the Empire is mad swag. They should have worn golden sashes on TOS all the time.
I mean, look at this:
That sash is pimp as hell!
(also, I'm so glad they got rid of those god awful turtle necks after Season 1. Those looked awful in comparison to their regular wear in 2 and 3, and everyone on the set must have been sweating their balls off in those things)
Ron Jones man. That guy put out some awesome stuff for TNG before getting fired. Best of Both Worlds Part 1 was so freaking ominous.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
From the Youtube comments:
Man, is that true? Fucking Rick Berman. You ruin everything in Star Trek!
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
That's a real shame. One reason I watch Booby Trap more than many other episodes in that season is because of the soundtrack. It adds so much gravitas to that zoom-in on Picard when he says "...a century old booby trap!"
(why can I not find that clip on youtube? I'm bad at this)
(why can I not find that clip on youtube? I'm bad at this)
Picard knows Kirk's style. Picard would vigorously defend Kirk's style. But it's not Picard's style.
So uh, I haven't really watched much Star Trek in my life. In two weeks, I start a Sociology of Star Trek class. I suppose I will be in here a lot. 
Just watched the first two episodes of TOS. First was meh. Second (first with Kirk) was pretty rad. Can't wait to keep watching. This class is going to ruuuuule.
Just watched the first two episodes of TOS. First was meh. Second (first with Kirk) was pretty rad. Can't wait to keep watching. This class is going to ruuuuule.
I've been re-watching TNG recently, and watched that episode just last night. Picard definitely softens during the seasons, the crew in that episode are comfortable pushing his buttons with his unease about 'captain Picard day'.
A lot of it is context though. Kirk was one of the first explorers, to an extent they were making things up as they went along, adapting to what they found. Picard's world is a much more mature and structured starfleet - less room to manoeuvre and more political.
So uh, I haven't really watched much Star Trek in my life. In two weeks, I start a Sociology of Star Trek class. I suppose I will be in here a lot.
Just watched the first two episodes of TOS. First was meh. Second (first with Kirk) was pretty rad. Can't wait to keep watching. This class is going to ruuuuule.
By first do you mean The Cage, The Menagerie, or Where No Man Has Gone Before? Star Trek's start was... complicated.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Would have had to have been the cage if it didn't have kirk in at all.
Don't see it.
Hard to top
"Hmmm, tuvok's dead, this is unacceptable, guess I'll go back in time thereby killing an infinite number of people"
THe biggest problem is that picard is an explorer, enterprise is a long-term exploration ship, and yet there are precious few episodes where they're actually on the frontier exploring. They probably spend more time being a shuttle service for ambassadors and the like.
Duh. Didn't even see that.
Yeah, that pilot wasn't even aired except as part of the courtroom drama two parter The Menagerie (love the synonym rename). Some real Kirk/Spock stuff is established in that two parter.
So then probably the second one he saw was probably Where No Man Has Gone Before? I really hate that one, personally.
Re. Enterprise and exploring, the Enterprise-D's mission wasn't really exploring since it was explicitly a flag ship (without a flag officer, which is weird, but whatever). It was supposed to represent the Federation's strength and goals. So its mission was more to pretend to explore to send the message that that's what Starfleet is about.
The Alpha Quadrant was pretty much mapped (or at least claimed) by various powers by the time the Vulcans found Earth near the border of the Beta Quadrant. Then the Humans picked up the Vulcans' ball and aggressively captured half the Beta Quadrant around Kirk's time.
In Picard's time, the Enterprise has pulled back and is "exploring" (strengthening) the Alpha Quadrant borders.
It's like if America pulled back from exploring the Wild West and sent their shiniest new
Sisko and DS9 are down by New Mexico.
The Librarian
Banned
He likes to review bad episodes because he likes to make fun of them. His "Initiations" review was his best one overall I think. But he's also great when he reviews good episodes like The Die is Cast/Improbable Cause.
SniperHunter
Banned
Hahah ok you are right. Jarjar was more annoying, Neelix was tolerable until season 4? But once Seven of Nine and that little girl joined the cast his character was just flushed down the toilet.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Chakotay did it, so did Kim (twice)