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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
Davey Cakes
Member
Yeah, the leap is very noticeable. Riker has a lot of good moments in S2, in my opinion. Things for the show only get better as it goes on, too.
Mr. Luchador
Member
It isn't TNG until Riker grows his beard.
Sure they make contact...but I can't imagine it's a priority when you're 70 years from civilization to want to enforce a dress code change either, even if they've 'seen' the new uniforms.
TrekGAF, am I being oversensitive?
Leonard Nimoy, having previously portrayed the villain Galvatron in the 80's animated Transformers movie, appeared in Michael Bay's third modern Transformers movie as a character named Sentinel Prime.
This might be a spoiler but it's a pretty bad movie (from a series of bad movies) so it's not like spoilers will hurt it. Sentinel Prime is supposed to be a great old leader of the Autobots (good guys), and they even throw in a callback to the first Bayformers when they say that Sentinel is the one who taught Optimus Prime that "freedom is the right of all sentient beings" (an internet-voted line for insertion into the movie that sadly beat "do a barrel roll").
But then suddenly Sentinel starts team-killing all of his comrades and kills a bunch of humans and reveals his master plan to kill all the good guys/hand victory over to the bad guys, because the bad guys have superior numbers, and anyone who loves his species would do the same. Also, he apparently intends to round humans up into little concentration camps and use them for slave labor, as soon as he gets bored of killing them by the thousands, because human life is completely worthless to him.
And then he, voiced by Nimoy, explains himself by saying that it's okay to team-kill his friends and family, because the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
I personally thought the use of that line was jarringly offensive. They twisted the highest point of Nimoy's career, an emotional moment of self-sacrifice, into essentially an endorsement of the holocaust. Others in the thread suggested that nah, it was just a neat Nimoy reference, and that if it was offensive, Nimoy wouldn't have done it.
What say you TrekGAF, did I get upset over nothing?
Leonard Nimoy, having previously portrayed the villain Galvatron in the 80's animated Transformers movie, appeared in Michael Bay's third modern Transformers movie as a character named Sentinel Prime.
This might be a spoiler but it's a pretty bad movie (from a series of bad movies) so it's not like spoilers will hurt it. Sentinel Prime is supposed to be a great old leader of the Autobots (good guys), and they even throw in a callback to the first Bayformers when they say that Sentinel is the one who taught Optimus Prime that "freedom is the right of all sentient beings" (an internet-voted line for insertion into the movie that sadly beat "do a barrel roll").
But then suddenly Sentinel starts team-killing all of his comrades and kills a bunch of humans and reveals his master plan to kill all the good guys/hand victory over to the bad guys, because the bad guys have superior numbers, and anyone who loves his species would do the same. Also, he apparently intends to round humans up into little concentration camps and use them for slave labor, as soon as he gets bored of killing them by the thousands, because human life is completely worthless to him.
And then he, voiced by Nimoy, explains himself by saying that it's okay to team-kill his friends and family, because the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
I personally thought the use of that line was jarringly offensive. They twisted the highest point of Nimoy's career, an emotional moment of self-sacrifice, into essentially an endorsement of the holocaust. Others in the thread suggested that nah, it was just a neat Nimoy reference, and that if it was offensive, Nimoy wouldn't have done it.
What say you TrekGAF, did I get upset over nothing?
It was just a movie. Get over it.
I suppose I'm more interested in the *real* reason rather than the fiction reason for the lack of change. Someone at some point in the production staff must have raised the question of whether or not to change the uniform style, and I'm just curious if the decision making process there has ever been revealed.
lastplayed
Member
Also, in Generations they seemed free to choose between two different uniforms. When Voyager was introduced to a new uniform variant they probably didn't think it was a big deal, and like you say, certainly not a priority.
Maybe to keep DS9 and Voyager visually different, have their own identities etc.
That's making a lot of sense to me right now. So my offended response was actually a good thing? I don't know why I didn't think of that. I think I was beyond expecting the movie to work at that point.
Glad I asked.
I'm over it. There was just a fun hate thread and I tossed out one of my personal peeves, but people reacted differently than I thought, so I was curious.
Yes and yes.
I guess so - they did "invert" the colour scheme on the DS9 uniforms while it was running concurrently with TNG.
Also on Generations - I think that was a costuming issue where they weren't happy (or couldn't produce) a new style uniform in time for the movie. I'm trying to find a link to the designs...
http://www.st-spike.org/pages/uniforms/noncanon/uniforms.htm
From Memory Alpha:
lastplayed
Member
Yeah, that first run of Generations action figures is a good place to see them.
GameplayWhore
Member
I'm sure that this was posted like a page ago and I just missed it, but
Has anybody gone to see Trek in the Park? I'm interested in hearing reactions to those who've viewed it live.
Has anybody gone to see Trek in the Park? I'm interested in hearing reactions to those who've viewed it live.
ThLunarian
Member
It flat-out wouldn't have made sense to change the uniforms. Someone on the staff probably said "Well in the Alpha Quadrant, everyone changed uniforms, but clearly the Voyager crew would have no idea that new uniforms even existed, so we should probably have them keep the same ones, for consistency's sake."
Suggesting that there may have been any other reason is just over thinking it.
To add to that, their whole wardrobe and everything on screen (from gadgets to furniture) can be sponsored. Teens have disposable incomes and they consistently buy what they see other teens using on TV.
Where with scifi we need things imagined up, CG-ed, designed and made real by people like the Okudas. Everything has to aim for certain aesthetics that don't exist in real life and it's so costly to keep up through the wear and tear of daily taping. Even Firefly, considering how the show looked, costed a lot.
Lol that other show, I watched a few episodes but I couldn't handle much more of the terrible writing. Only one actor that was capable, the rumple dude.
This is what I also thought since I was a kid watching. They're separated from Starfleet and would have no idea about something like that.
But again, they have a to be of on-screen contact with Starfleet personnel using the new uniforms. If you're using the fiction then given Janeways constant reinforcement of the fact that Voyager is still a Starfleet vessel, you'd have thought the first thing she'd do would be to make sure their dress code was adhered to.
I really think you're reaching. The real reason is it makes no sense to do it. That's it. It's an extra production expense to modify the DS9 uniforms for the crew of Voyager to fit, a small one of course, but more importantly there's no reason to do it in the first place.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Now to be fair, uniform changes would not have been a priority for Voyager. I never felt it was wrong that they didn't change them.
lastplayed
Member
Waste of resources to replicate uniforms for the crew. Voyager is on replicator rations! (when the episode plot requires them to be).
BattleMonkey
Member
Replicators would make em.
Not like Voyager cared anymore about conserving power, they were at the time leaving a holodeck program running 24/7 at the time, when initially they had to conserve their food rationing use of the replicator....
They dumped the whole power conservation after like 2 episodes
lastplayed
Member
Well they didn't have any problem acquiring new shuttles and torpedoes. Clearly resources aren't an issue. 
Well they didn't have any problem acquiring new shuttles and torpedoes. Clearly resources aren't an issue.
Yeah, those new uniforms are clearly super important.
season 1 is very silly. season 2 is a step up, season 3 onwards show really takes off.
Battersea Power Station
Member
Hmm... interesting. I'm making my way through TNG for the first time now and I'm a little uneasy about season 3. It's definitely taking on a "stuff just got real" vibe, but that's also making it harder to stick to the world they've built over the 2 series.
For example, I just watched 3.17 Sins of the Father, and I really disliked the politics within the Klingon empire and council. The fact that a powerful family can use influence, deception, and dishonor to control a people like the Klingon as simply as they can do it on Earth is a little off-putting. So far the show has been very good about sticking to each race's unique characteristics, and this just seems like a weird attempt to "humanize" the Klingons, in a poor manner.
And then in 3.18, Allegiance, Picard acts kind of vengefully towards his former captors even though they meant no harm. His anger and annoyance is understandable, of course, but in similar circumstances in his previous adventures, he always tempered it with a willingness to resolve misunderstandings between different cultures of different values. They even explicitly stated that they didn't have a code of morality like humans did. So why did he still harbor resentment towards them?
And it was a bit lazy to have them immediately understand The Golden Rule, as we are obliged to believe that they've lived their whole existence without accidentally stubbing a toe and thinking "Wow, I bet this would hurt if I did it to someone else."
Like I said, I'm getting a little wary. I should say, I really enjoyed watching seasons 1 and 2.
I'm the complete opposite, I liked the shift towards more human drama and bigger emphasis on character interactions and development presented on season 3 onwards. The plots in each episode got less silly and that made it a lot more watchable to me.
So how come they wasted replicator rations on making Starfleet uniforms for the Maquis crewmembers instead of just giving them rank insignia?
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
And then have to acknowledge that the crew is made up of two groups with very different viewpoints for more than 3 episodes in the entire series?
Are you mad?!?!
"Oh wow, the Enterprise looks amazing."
"Oh cool, there's a little dood flying around it."
"NCC-1701 yeah baby!"
"...."
"........."
"..... ok. It's a starship. Ok. I get it."
"Goddamnit why doesn't the warp core breach or something!"
"Where the hell is spock anyways?"
"Wtf man come on. I could have *buiilt* the Enterprise by now."
lastplayed
Member
Not only did they give them uniforms, but they also made up some special Maquis insignia to go with it!
I think McCoy grew his big 70s beard during that sequence.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
In the case of uniforms for the Maquis members, it makes sense. First of all, we have no idea how valuable "replicator rations" are, and in any case, make a uniform couldn't cost that much.
Early on it was important for the two crews to be able to function together as one, and all wearing the same uniform would go a long way towards warding off any hostility by removing a huge visual distinction between them. The differences wouldn't be so overt, and the Maquis and Starfleet members would blend together better. It was a morale thing well worth whatever (probably) insignificant amount of rations it would take.
Early on it was important for the two crews to be able to function together as one, and all wearing the same uniform would go a long way towards warding off any hostility by removing a huge visual distinction between them. The differences wouldn't be so overt, and the Maquis and Starfleet members would blend together better. It was a morale thing well worth whatever (probably) insignificant amount of rations it would take.
Escape Goat
Member
Star Trek: The Motionless Picture
SpoonyBard
Banned
I liked how in season 6 episode Pathfinder Barclay's holodeck version of Voyager still had Maquis keeping their own uniforms. And I think 7 of 9 was missing from the holodeck version as well.
My problem isn't with Janeway wanting them in SF uniforms.
It's with the Maquis not taking those uniforms and shoving them up a half ship full of Starfleet asses.
They "explained" it by saying the holodeck's power matrix was incompatible with other systems.
Well, they should have just reversed the temporal flux matrix through the gel packs.
They knew about it for ages.
Why is Andy Dick piloting the ship?
Maybe that's why it was so hard finding a way home.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Andy Dick is/was the new Holodoc.
SkyMasterson
Member
lol. I was literally just about to post the same thing.
TMP is such a fanservice film, with lots of these moments aimed at people who'd been watching Star Trek on syndication for years and no expectation there'd be anything else from the franchise afterward. Still, Jerry Goldsmith's score makes its interminable sequences bearable.
It really doesn't.
Not to say Goldsmith's score is anything less than fantastic, but music can only do so much to mitigate terrible movie making.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Data now sings Man or Muppet during a S1 montage reflecting on his wacky misunderstandings of human behavior and his adventures as Tasha Yar's Sybian.