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[maharg]

Well it was technically a mistake to try and kill Fajo. He decided that Fajo was worth less than inevitable future lives (he wouldn't kill Fajo in retribution for the one life he already took, but he would as a last resort to protect others), and he needed to die. As soon as the Enterprise arrived, it became clear to Data that he was mistaken in his conclusion that other people would inevitably die.

It was a perfectly reasonable mistake, reached through sound logic, but it was still a mistake and he'd like to take it back if he could. Fortunately for him, the absolute finality of his decision happened "during transport", so no harm was done. It's one of those rare occasions where he can take back a mistake.

I think the problem is that wanting to take back his decision implies a level of emotional response Data isn't supposed to be capable of. Regret is not something he should be able to have.

However, this is such a common problem for Data plots (and Spock plots before him, for that matter) that I don't think it makes sense to nitpick this one in particular. If Data were as emotionless as he's supposed to be it'd make it almost impossible to relate to him.

 

[SpoonyBard]

Data was being dishonest. It's a lie of omission.

Even if he was "sidestepping," why? He was acting in a way that he decided was logical and for the greater good, i.e. in the ideals of Starfleet.

What would have been gained from telling Riker right there that he tried to kill Fajo? Data had enough common sense to keep it to himself. Hell, even in episode The Offspring Data didn't tell anyone he was creating an another android before it was almost ready. That and what happened in The Measure of a Man taught him that not everyone in Federation could be trusted fully.

 

[Jackpot]

I think the writer's intentions were to imply Data experienced some sort of emotion over the barbaric death of that woman that made him decide to commit the ultimate sin of taking a human life, and that even he's not sure what happened but decided to err on the side of caution when making his report.

 

[DrForester]

Funny story.

Despite being one of the best TNG episodes and seeing it many times, and seeing the guy in tons of movies, and two Trek films, I've only just now realized that Gul Madred is David Warner.

 

[Medalion]

Been away awhile but... argh, they better finish off the rest of the TNG blu-ray remasters

 

[Error]

I just watched The Chase on TNG and... the similarities to Prometheus are almost uncanny. Makes Prometheus look like a shamless ripoff actually, even the proto-humanoid species is almost the same as in Prometheus except less muscular and with more color.

I thought the plot of the episode was great, but the direction was bad. Pacing was off it felt very rushed, for something as important as explaining the origins of species like Cardassians, Humans, Klingons, Vulcans, Romulans it needed more time to develop. why didn't they make this a two parter like others in the series? such a weird decision.

 

[SpoonyBard]

I just watched The Chase on TNG and... the similarities to Prometheus are almost uncanny. Makes Prometheus look like a shamless ripoff actually, even the proto-humanoid species is almost the same as in Prometheus except less muscular and with more color.

I thought the plot of the episode was great, but the direction was bad. Pacing was off it felt very rushed, for something as important as explaining the origins of species like Cardassians, Humans, Klingons, Vulcans, Romulans it needed more time to develop. why didn't they make this a two parter like others in the series? such a weird decision.

Both are influenced by Sagan's Contact, I think... But yeah, the episode was very poorly paced, things happened too quickly, and everything was too easy.

 

[lastplayed]

Funny story.

Despite being one of the best TNG episodes and seeing it many times, and seeing the guy in tons of movies, and two Trek films, I've only just now realized that Gul Madred is David Warner.

Chancellor Gorkon and the Federation Representitive. He sure got around a bit.

 

[Walshicus]

The Chase could definitely have done with being a two-parter, or even one episode with a bunch of foreshadowing throughout the series.

 

[Rinoa]

Speaking of similar TNG episodes, I rewatched TNG Time Squared, which haven't seen since syndication. The conversations and concepts in it are exactly like Cause and Effect, like a version 1.0 draft with a very stiff Picard. I do wonder why they never got more in depth into explaining/revealing what the 'entity' was though.

 

[SpoonyBard]

Speaking of similar TNG episodes, I rewatched TNG Time Squared, which haven't seen since syndication. The conversations and concepts in it are exactly like Cause and Effect, like a version 1.0 draft with a very stiff Picard. I do wonder why they never got more in depth into explaining/revealing what the 'entity' was though.

Some version of script said it was Q was messing with Picard, but that was cut from the actual episode. It was supposed to be revealed in Q Who, a couple of episodes afterwards.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Well.

What happened in that birth episode was certainly unexpected.

 

[Walshicus]

Well.

What happened in that birth episode was certainly unexpected.

Which birth episode?

 

[Battersea Power Station]

I think the problem is that wanting to take back his decision implies a level of emotional response Data isn't supposed to be capable of. Regret is not something he should be able to have.

Yes, that's what I'm referring to: he's never wanted to keep something to himself for convenience's sake, especially from Starfleet.

However, this is such a common problem for Data plots (and Spock plots before him, for that matter) that I don't think it makes sense to nitpick this one in particular. If Data were as emotionless as he's supposed to be it'd make it almost impossible to relate to him.

I'm not so sure. I'm new to Star Trek, and I've been really fascinated with the TNG crew and storyline, and have been paying close attention. They've been very careful so far to show Data as a completely unemotional being, at least in seasons 1-3. I'm on S4E09 now, so I'm not sure what happens in the future.

But thanks, everyone, for engaging with me in the geeky discussions I missed out on 20 years ago. I know all of you must've gone through conversations like this dozens if not hundreds of times.

I really enjoyed seasons 1-3, and I didn't find it as silly as some have indicated (ok, with the exceptions of Troi's mom episodes...), but after being hit with the The Best of Both Worlds 1 & 2, immediately followed by Family, I'll admit that I was blown away. I still have some reservations about the show becoming less about "future humans" and more about how "today's humans" would act in the future, if you get my meaning; however, I am thoroughly entertained either way. I can't wait to play the next one.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Which birth episode?

The Begotten. (DS9 5/12). Where Odo

Spoiler

becomes a changeling again.

Also just watched For The Uniform, the episode after which I think is what people were talking about before when describing Sisko as a bit more ruthless than the other captains. And yeah, I'd have to agree at this point that he's definitely less of a diplomat than Picard or Janeway. Not really confirmable in any way, but I think it has to do with the influence of Dax and Worf.

 

[Henchmen21]

Yes, that's what I'm referring to: he's never wanted to keep something to himself for convenience's sake, especially from Starfleet.I'm not so sure. I'm new to Star Trek, and I've been really fascinated with the TNG crew and storyline, and have been paying close attention. They've been very careful so far to show Data as a completely unemotional being, at least in seasons 1-3. I'm on S4E09 now, so I'm not sure what happens in the future.

But thanks, everyone, for engaging with me in the geeky discussions I missed out on 20 years ago. I know all of you must've gone through conversations like this dozens if not hundreds of times.

I really enjoyed seasons 1-3, and I didn't find it as silly as some have indicated (ok, with the exceptions of Troi's mom episodes...), but after being hit with the The Best of Both Worlds 1 & 2, immediately followed by Family, I'll admit that I was blown away. I still have some reservations about the show becoming less about "future humans" and more about how "today's humans" would act in the future, if you get my meaning; however, I am thoroughly entertained either way. I can't wait to play the next one.

Just imagine how the rest of us felt when it first aired. Three months was an interminable amount of time to wait especially if you were ten years old like I was.

 

[Htown]

The Begotten. (DS9 5/12). Where Odo

Spoiler

becomes a changeling again.

Also just watched For The Uniform, the episode after which I think is what people were talking about before when describing Sisko as a bit more ruthless than the other captains. And yeah, I'd have to agree at this point that he's definitely less of a diplomat than Picard or Janeway. Not really confirmable in any way, but I think it has to do with the influence of Dax and Worf.

oh man I love that part in the series

shit is about to get SO real

 

[Rinoa]

Some version of script said it was Q was messing with Picard, but that was cut from the actual episode. It was supposed to be revealed in Q Who, a couple of episodes afterwards.

During the Time Squared episode Picard & Riker wondered if it was Q giving Picard a second chance. So although unconfirmed, the question was raised.. and although it's no Tapestry episode, it would have had that same idea (Q giving Picard a chance to save himself/enterprise). There is also the dialogue in Time Squared where Picard is all freaked out going "I am not that man/I see nothing in him that resembles me" which is similar to Tapestry.

 

[Error]

I'm on the last season of TNG, this has been quite a ride.

 

[Escape Goat]

 

[Cheebo]

William Windom who played Commander Decker in the Doomsday Machine episode, has passed away.

Am I the only one who took years to realize Will Decker was that guys son?

 

[GameplayWhore]

Am I the only one who took years to realize Will Decker was that guys son?

Aside from the mention at startrek.com that wikipedia references, was this ever stated on screen, in script or in an official novelization anywhere, or was it an after-the-fact bit of added continuity?

 

[Htown]

Aside from the mention at startrek.com that wikipedia references, was this ever stated on screen, in script or in an official novelization anywhere, or was it an after-the-fact bit of added continuity?

It was in the novelization, according to Memory Alpha.

 

[DarthWoo]

What are your thoughts on the continuity of Star Trek as presented through Star Trek Online? I know game continuities tend to not factor much into official canon, but what are the chances some of it makes it into any post Voyager TV series should any be made?

Among the more interesting little bits of lore from STO (some of which may have been borrowed from novels, but I don't read many of them so I'm not sure):

-Data's matrix asserts itself in B-4's body, and with the help of Geordi he basically IS Data. He takes command of the Enterprise-E (this was mentioned in the pre-ST2009 comic) but at the moment the fate of the E is unknown.

-Species 8472, known now as the Undine, have begun infiltrating the Alpha/Beta quadrant powers like only the Changelings wish they could have. Their animosity towards these races is being driven by some long-hidden power.

-Among other consequences of this infiltration, the Federation and Klingon Empire are once again at war. Worf resigned from Starfleet prior to the start of hostilities due to the Federation's condemnation of the KDF's war with the Gorn (after it was discovered that the Gorn had already been infiltrated) and now lives on Qo'noS.

-The Borg are back in force, despite Starfleet having considered them as a non-threat for a time. Much of the game focuses on repelling Borg incursions.

-Those pesky Dominion reinforcements were not in fact destroyed by the Prophets, but only displaced in time. One of the featured episodic series of missions focuses on the consequences when the entire force emerges from the wormhole right as Starfleet is hosting a conference with various belligerent parties in an effort to cooperate against the Borg.

-Despite the obvious detriments that decades of militarism and imperialism wreaked upon their worlds, and the horrendous destruction brought by allying with the Dominion, there are still large pockets of Cardassians who feel that their people should be turned back to those good old days, creating a minor threat in that area of space.

-The Romulans are far from defeated, though they are of course scattered. Many of them are now allied with the same force that had manipulated the Undine into hostilities against the Alpha/Beta quadrant.

 

[Escape Goat]

What are your thoughts on the continuity of Star Trek as presented through Star Trek Online? I know game continuities tend to not factor much into official canon, but what are the chances some of it makes it into any post Voyager TV series should any be made?

Among the more interesting little bits of lore from STO (some of which may have been borrowed from novels, but I don't read many of them so I'm not sure):

-Data's matrix asserts itself in B-4's body, and with the help of Geordi he basically IS Data. He takes command of the Enterprise-E (this was mentioned in the pre-ST2009 comic) but at the moment the fate of the E is unknown.

-Species 8472, known now as the Undine, have begun infiltrating the Alpha/Beta quadrant powers like only the Changelings wish they could have. Their animosity towards these races is being driven by some long-hidden power.

-Among other consequences of this infiltration, the Federation and Klingon Empire are once again at war. Worf resigned from Starfleet prior to the start of hostilities due to the Federation's condemnation of the KDF's war with the Gorn (after it was discovered that the Gorn had already been infiltrated) and now lives on Qo'noS.

-The Borg are back in force, despite Starfleet having considered them as a non-threat for a time. Much of the game focuses on repelling Borg incursions.

-Those pesky Dominion reinforcements were not in fact destroyed by the Prophets, but only displaced in time. One of the featured episodic series of missions focuses on the consequences when the entire force emerges from the wormhole right as Starfleet is hosting a conference with various belligerent parties in an effort to cooperate against the Borg.

-Despite the obvious detriments that decades of militarism and imperialism wreaked upon their worlds, and the horrendous destruction brought by allying with the Dominion, there are still large pockets of Cardassians who feel that their people should be turned back to those good old days, creating a minor threat in that area of space.

-The Romulans are far from defeated, though they are of course scattered. Many of them are now allied with the same force that had manipulated the Undine into hostilities against the Alpha/Beta quadrant.

Sounds like a lot of bad fan fic.

 

[Htown]

Sounds like a lot of bad fan fic.

I feel like it does like a good job within the constraints of having to justify player conflict with all of those races.

Summary

More Detail

 

[Walshicus]

I actually think they did a good job with the Dominion Reinforcements plot.

 

[jayhawker]

I just watched "The Visitor" (DS9 4.3) for the first time. It's the episode

Spoiler

where Ben dies/goes into sub-space, and Jake ends up committing suicide to save him.

. I cried like a baby throughout the episode.

Man, Season 4 has sure started out strong. I was really enjoying the beginning of Season 3, too, but it had quite a few dud episodes in the middle. Hopefully 4 stays strong.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Sounds like a lot of bad fan fic.

Describes most of Voyager and Enterprise

 

[Battersea Power Station]

TNG 4x21, Drumhead

What a silly episode. I guess this was well into the post-Rodenberry period.

Fffffuuuuuuuuu... next one is a Lwaxana Troi episode.

 

[funkystudent]

Random question I was thinking about today.

What are generally regarded as the best Star Trek episodes?


I dont really follow this stuff that much even though I have probably watched every single episode from ever series at some point in my life.

I know The Inner Light is held up as one of them but what are some other top tier episodes.


I am in the mood for some top notch star trek but I dont know where to start.

 

[Deleted member 102362]

Random question I was thinking about today.

What are generally regarded as the best Star Trek episodes?


I dont really follow this stuff that much even though I have probably watched every single episode from ever series at some point in my life.

I know The Inner Light is held up as one of them but what are some other top tier episodes.


I am in the mood for some top notch star trek but I dont know where to start.

Yesterday's Enterprise.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Yesterday's Enterprise.

Dont forget the sequel episode!

 

[kharma45]

Random question I was thinking about today.

What are generally regarded as the best Star Trek episodes?


I dont really follow this stuff that much even though I have probably watched every single episode from ever series at some point in my life.

I know The Inner Light is held up as one of them but what are some other top tier episodes.


I am in the mood for some top notch star trek but I dont know where to start.

Which series do you want? There are a lot of great episodes from each series, even Enterprise

 

[funkystudent]

Which series do you want? There are a lot of great episodes from each series, even Enterprise

Any.... ok probably none from TOS and Maybe not Voyager.

I liked TNG, REALLY like DS9 and enterprise had its problems but i remember really liking a lot of that last series

 

[maharg]

Any.... ok probably none from TOS and Maybe not Voyager.

Blaspheme.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Blaspheme.

Spanking Time!

 

[Deleted member 102362]

Spanking Time!

I don't remember that episode.

Spoiler

Crusher/Troi

 

[kharma45]

Any.... ok probably none from TOS and Maybe not Voyager.

I liked TNG, REALLY like DS9 and enterprise had its problems but i remember really liking a lot of that last series

Well you're gonna get some Voyager and TOS regardless


TOS

Balance of Terror
Space Seed
City of the Edge of Forever
Mirror Mirror
The Trouble With Tribbles

Voyager (looking back now I think about it there was a lot of Voyager I liked)

The Thaw
Scorpion
Timeless
Year of Hell
Message In a Bottle
Equinox
Blink of an Eye
The Void
Killing Game

Enterprise

In a Mirror, Darkly
Regeneration
Affliction / Divergence
Borderland / Cold Station 12 / The Augments
E²
Similitude
Demons/Terra Prime
Observer Effect

TNG

Inner Light
Best of Both Worlds (followed by Family)
Night Terrors
Lower Decks
The First Duty
Darmok
Tapestry
All Good Things
Cause and Effect
Measure of a Man
The Drumhead
Chain of Command
Yesterday's Enterprise

DS9

In the Pale Moonlight
Empok Nor
Our Man Bashir
Far Beyond The Stars
The Way of the Warrior
Trials and Tribble-ations
The Visitor
Sacrifice of Angels
Little Green Men
Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
The Wire
The Magnificent Ferengi

In my view you won't go too far wrong with any of those episodes.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

Well you're gonna get some Voyager and TOS regardless
...

TNG

...
The Drumhead
...

In my view you won't go too far wrong with any of those episodes.

I just wrote negatively about this episode a couple of posts up. What do you like about it? I find it hard to believe that the humans of that age would resort to McCarthyism / witch hunting, considering all the other cultural advancements that have been displayed previously. And the admiral's Beta-zed assistant should have been able to sense that they're barking up the wrong tree. But he was genuinely surprised at the end.

The whole episode was very contrived, and almost Sorkin- or Whedon- esque in its message delivery.

 

[kharma45]

I just wrote negatively about this episode a couple of posts up. What do you like about it? I find it hard to believe that the humans of that age would resort to McCarthyism / witch hunting, considering all the other cultural advancements that have been displayed previously. And the admiral's Beta-zed assistant should have been able to sense that they're barking up the wrong tree. But he was genuinely surprised at the end.

The whole episode was very contrived, and almost Sorkin- or Whedon- esque in its message delivery.

I enjoyed the Picard-Sati 'confrontation' if you can call it that and felt the acting was strong throughout. The pacing is just right and I liked the message the episode tries to convey. Chuck/sfdebris has a good review up of it and puts across my feelings about it much more eloquently and succinctly than I can http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated-reviews/tng-the-drumhead-review-5429239

Whilst you might think humans in that era would be more enlightened I feel that we still would be even then rather human, and by that I mean we are still flawed despite cultural advancements which is something this episode (and many others) illustrated.

As for your point about Roddenberry in your post up above, he was still alive at this point and was executive producer on the episode (as I'm sure he was on almost every one) but as to how much influence he had over it I don't know.

You're actually the first person I've come across who hasn't liked this episode, I always thought it was a pretty popular one but I guess it's not everyone's cup of tea then

 

[radcliff]

Any.... ok probably none from TOS and Maybe not Voyager.

I liked TNG, REALLY like DS9 and enterprise had its problems but i remember really liking a lot of that last series

TNG:

Season 1:

Datalore
Skin of Evil
Conspiracy
Arsenal of Freedom
11001001

Season 2:

Measure of a Man
Elementary, Dear Data
Matter of Honor
Schizoid Man
Q Who
Emissary

Season 3:

Who Watchers the Watchers
Yesterday's Enterprise
Offspring
Sins of the Father
Tin Man
Defector
Enemy
Hunted
Deja Q
The Most Toys
Sarek
Best of Both Worlds

Season 4:
Family
Brothers
Legacy
Remember Me
Reunion
Future Imperfect
Wounded
Devil's Due
Clues
Drumhead (I liked it)
Redemption

Season 5:

Darmok
Disaster
Unification
Conundrum
Power Play
Cause and Effect
First Duty
I, Borg
Inner Light

Season 6:

Relics
Chain of Command
Ship in a Bottle
Face of the Enemy
Tapestry
Chase
Frame of Mind
Rightful Heir
Timescape
Descent

Season 7:

Gambit
Inheritance
Parallels
Pegasus
Lower Decks
Thine Own Self
Genesis
All Good Things

 

[CorrisD]

Near the end of the first season of TNG, I caught 99% of DS9 and Voyager when they were on TV or on reruns, but just watching this first season I have come across a bunch of episodes I completely missed. It is actually kinda of nice having Star Trek to watch that I haven't seen considering the lack of it these days.

 

[Fathead]

Living Witness is a good Voyager episode as well.

 

[rexor0717]

So I've been loving Enterprise. Although it may have some of the weakest characters, I just can't get over how awesomely the depict early Star Fleet.

 

[DrForester]

So I've been loving Enterprise. Although it may have some of the weakest characters, I just can't get over how awesomely the depict early Star Fleet.

incompetent?

 

[rexor0717]

incompetent?

Well, that's definitely one way to describe it. I feel like its just less uptight, and it makes the characters feel less distant. In general, the characters aren't as good as ones from previous series, but the casualness somewhat makes up for it. I thought Captain Picard was awesome and all, but he without a doubt has a stick up his ass. Archer is a much more relatable character. Whether or not that is good for a Captain is up to discussion I s'pose.

 

[SpoonyBard]

Well, that's definitely one way to describe it. I feel like its just less uptight, and it makes the characters feel less distant. In general, the characters aren't as good as ones from previous series, but the casualness somewhat makes up for it. I thought Captain Picard was awesome and all, but he without a doubt has a stick up his ass. Archer is a much more relatable character. Whether or not that is good for a Captain is up to discussion I s'pose.

Archer is is bit too incompetent and stupid for me to like him. He took his goddamn dog with him to a first contact mission.

 

[Magnus]

I met Kate Mulgrew at FanExpo and have a short vid of her and I reciting my favorite Janeway line together. It's glorious.

 

[Escape Goat]

I met Kate Mulgrew at FanExpo and have a short vid of her and I reciting my favorite Janeway line together. It's glorious.

"Times...up!"