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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN

I understand that, my question is whether there is an audience for it. I mean who's clamoring to get Enterprise on bluray?

You realize how much crap is getting bluray releases? Enterprise has a built in fan base and its already in HD so they dont need to spend much on even putting out such a set. They can make a cheap release and easy money without much investment.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Yeah, outside maybe getting some new interviews, or commentaries, I doubt it will have anything the DVD's didn't. The Trek DVD's were always pretty well loaded with extra features.
 

dalin80

Banned
Voyager, 'Repentance'.

Great episode. Wow.

This show gets shit on too much.


A lot of the shit is valid and mostly from the same issues that run through the show-

0 continuity
janeway is always right even when she is blatantly off her rocker.
neelix
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
OMG Ezri Dax is terribad.... Jesus. I'll never forgive
Terry Farrell
.
THANK YOU.

I thought I was the only one!

But, fuck Behr and Moore and Berman and whomever decided to kill off Jadzia. What a shitty thing to do, especially since Ezri wasn't even a consideration when they did it.
 
THANK YOU.

I thought I was the only one!

But, fuck Behr and Moore and Berman and whomever decided to kill off Jadzia. What a shitty thing to do, especially since Ezri wasn't even a consideration when they did it.

They didn't decide to kill her from what I've heard. She wanted to leave. Rumors persist about her being difficult to handle both on DS9 & Becker.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
They didn't decide to kill her from what I've heard. She wanted to leave. Rumors persist about her being difficult to handle both on DS9 & Becker.
She wanted to leave for Becker, since the standard was to sign for 6 years and she was done. They decided to kill the character though, against her wishes, which is why she did not let them use her likeness for the final montage at the end of the show.

Ezri Dax was an invention they came up with over the summer break, since they had no clue what they were going to do after they killed Jadzia when they wrote it.

You know, it's funny, the DS9 Companion is both awesome in that it's probably the only book that fully documents the production of a TV series from pretty much beginning to end. But it also pulls back the curtain so much that a lot of the production problems just become readily apparent.

Like the reason why DS9 was so schizophrenic about whether it wanted to be serialized or episodic was all Berman. And of course, all the Klingon stuff was all Moore. lol
 

maharg

idspispopd
You know, it's funny, the DS9 Companion is both awesome in that it's probably the only book that fully documents the production of a TV series from pretty much beginning to end. But it also pulls back the curtain so much that a lot of the production problems just become readily apparent.

I like how B5's entire production was basically liveblogged on compuserv and then usenet for the world to see by JMS. Mountains and mountains of information out there because of it. Was basically almost like twitter existed in the 90s.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
I like how B5's entire production was basically liveblogged on compuserv and then usenet for the world to see by JMS. Mountains and mountains of information out there because of it. Was basically almost like twitter existed in the 90s.
Ah, yeah, that's true. And I guess they sold all the Ask JMS posts in book form (because you didn't want the Lurker's guide or something), but the Companion is I think a better experience mostly because it has information from many people involved in with the show, along with being an episode guide and whatnot.

I still remember it had an interview with Jane Espensen, since DS9 was one of her first breaks, and she talked about the whole Star Trek pitch process at the time.

I haven't read it in years though, but when I was a huge Niner (ugh, sorry) the book was like the best thing ever. lol
 

Cheerilee

Member
She wanted to leave for Becker, since the standard was to sign for 6 years and she was done. They decided to kill the character though, against her wishes, which is why she did not let them use her likeness for the final montage at the end of the show.

IIRC, it was more that everybody's contracts were expiring, and (during season 6) nobody knew if there was going to be a season 8, so they were offering 1-year contract extensions, with maybe the hope of some more 1-year extensions being offered sometime down the road. Becker was offering her a multi-year contract, so that was stable, and worth more.

And I think she said that if she had known that season 7 was going to be the final season, she would have stuck around for one more year just to see the project through to the end. So if they had known it was going to be 1 more year, or if they had known it was going to be 2 or 3 more years, they might've been able to keep her. The timing didn't matter so much as the uncertainty.

And yeah, she didn't want to be killed off. She just wanted them to write around her, and not draw attention to her disappearance, and then she could come back into the role as a special guest star anytime they needed her to be in an episode and she had enough time to do it.

Killing a character off is usually a bonus that they give an actor, because then you get the somewhat-rare experience of acting out a death scene, and you basically own the character and can take it with you when you leave, but they gave Jadzia a pretty lame death with almost no acting potential, and then they even sort of recast Dax. As deaths go (from an actor's perspective), Jadzia's death really sucked.

And her contract didn't allow them to use her image outside of contracted seasons, so it's not like she "didn't let them" put her in the final episode. They would've had to "hire her" through her agent if they wanted to use her image in the last episode, and supposedly they decided not to even ask because they were overbudget as-is. Terry Farrell might have let them use her image in the last episode for free, heck, she might even have agreed to record new footage for free, but that's the sort of thing that agents stop you from doing. So if they didn't have the money, there was really no reason for the producers to even ask.
 

TheYanger

Member
She wanted to leave for Becker, since the standard was to sign for 6 years and she was done. They decided to kill the character though, against her wishes, which is why she did not let them use her likeness for the final montage at the end of the show.

Ezri Dax was an invention they came up with over the summer break, since they had no clue what they were going to do after they killed Jadzia when they wrote it.

You know, it's funny, the DS9 Companion is both awesome in that it's probably the only book that fully documents the production of a TV series from pretty much beginning to end. But it also pulls back the curtain so much that a lot of the production problems just become readily apparent.

Like the reason why DS9 was so schizophrenic about whether it wanted to be serialized or episodic was all Berman. And of course, all the Klingon stuff was all Moore. lol

I wish more people would read that book. I've owned and loved it for years and years, probably read it almost cover to cover at least 4 times, it just compliments the show SO well. It's a travesty for any fan NOT to read it.
 
TOS, TNG, and now DS9 down.

Begun Voyager. TOS's cast were charismatic, the TNG were iconic, DS9 were real people with flawed personalities, and VOY.....just ordinary starfleet officers at this stage.

With so much crap flung at Voyager, going to see how long I can last.
 

jb1234

Member
TOS, TNG, and now DS9 down.

Begun Voyager. TOS's cast were charismatic, the TNG were iconic, DS9 were real people with flawed personalities, and VOY.....just ordinary starfleet officers at this stage.

With so much crap flung at Voyager, going to see how long I can last.

Take it for what it is. It's no DS9 but its overall quality isn't that far removed from TNG (which is far more inconsistent than people might remember).
 

benjipwns

Banned
Whatever happened to Terry Farrell, she ditched Becker after a few seasons too and there was a replacement character. Has nothing listed after that. She probably made some bank off of Becker in syndication though.
Fuck continuity. TOS had no continuity, and it was amazing even now.
The problem is Voyager's intent was completely different. They weren't flying all over the place to check out whatever gods or computers or chicks Kirk needed to fuck with that week. Hell, even TNG was more or less the same thing with Picard lecturing instead, but they still had character development and a sane continuity. Voyager was supposed to be a single ship on a multi-decade journey back home which pretty much implies continuity.

And for the first season and a half they were trying to set up some kind of "oh hey, we're alone, and there's this crap going on we just can't warp back to starbase from" and then a few years later we're blowing up fifty Borg cubes with all our shuttles every other episode.

The worst part is how bad Voyager squandered all their unique enemy races. The Kazon and Vidiians are easily more interesting and fleshed out than the Klingons, Ferengi and Cardassians during their respective debuts and early appearances. But nobody apparently knew what to do with them or how to even place them in the Delta Quadrant and so we got a shit load of recycled or rejected TNG plots.

Consider: The entire Hirogen arc, nor the species itself, isn't that bad in terms of introducing a species, dealing with them, having the Federation affect their culture and an aftermath coda, and it has a two-parter taking place in a WWII scenario on the Holodeck for fucks sake.

Even the Kazon arc had a semblance of a good idea with bad execution. There would be these individual sects, so Voyager would deal with different maje's with different personalities/ideologies, you had whatever that whole Tom Paris is a jerk arc was supposed to be about, Seska's betrayal, the Trabe setting up Voyager and the Kazon to try and get power back, Cullulh's insane capture plan*. It was just haphazard, came across two years instead of during a sensible time frame, and poorly executed in general. (Plus the Voyager writers never explored the aspects of the Kazon they had already built and so they WERE just Klingon clones early on, the Klingons became the Klingons we know with Worf and Moore's work, the Kazon came prebuilt with the warring sects and stolen tech and nomadic stuff and all of that went almost nowhere or was ignored.)

Compare to the Breen who got like what, five or six episodes and they're basically as fleshed out as the Kazon were over two seasons. With almost no backstory before then.

*As bad as Basics is, Suder and the Doctor is awesome.
 
Whatever happened to Terry Farrell, she ditched Becker after a few seasons too and there was a replacement character. Has nothing listed after that. She probably made some bank off of Becker in syndication though.

According to imdb

Where Are They Now
(July 2008) Retired from acting and moved to Hershey, Pennsylvania in 2003 following her marriage and the birth of her son. Now resides in New York City as a stay-at-home mom and housewife.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Huh. She's married to the old Sprint guy:
sprint_guy_f.jpg

love.jpg
 

Cheerilee

Member
Whatever happened to Terry Farrell, she ditched Becker after a few seasons too and there was a replacement character. Has nothing listed after that. She probably made some bank off of Becker in syndication though.

Actually, she didn't ditch Becker, she was fired. "Fired" meaning, her contract ran out, and they refused to give her a new one.

Becker's producer claimed that there was no malice in letting her go, he just wanted to freshen up the show, and this was the only idea that he was confident would deliver results. But it lends weight to rumors that she was hard to work with.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Actually, she didn't ditch Becker, she was fired. "Fired" meaning, her contract ran out, and they refused to give her a new one.

Becker's producer claimed that there was no malice in letting her go, he just wanted to freshen up the show, and this was the only idea that he was confident would deliver results. But it lends weight to rumors that she was hard to work with.
Yeah? I hadn't seen that. Thought she was just done with that too.

I know they got rid of like all the diner characters except the blind guy. And had the replacement take over the diner and then get with Becker. The ratings tanked according to Wiki.

Shame if she sucks to work with, I thought she was pretty good at playing old man to Sisko and younger with Julian.
 
Ezri Dax was an invention they came up with over the summer break, since they had no clue what they were going to do after they killed Jadzia when they wrote it.

Whoa so Ezri Dax actually exists o.o I'm not being sarcastic it's just that I only now am in process of watching DS9 completely while I only saw a few sporadic episodes as a kid here and there. And all the time the name Ezri Dax flew around my mind :/ Same with her looks, I always thought I saw a different Dax too when I watched it as a kid though by now I thought I must have been imagining things so it's quite a "mind blown" moment for me as I read your post :p

I really don't mind the spoiler either because ever since I started to watch anime I got used to it that the characters I like often die at some point so it's actually good that I'm warned now :)
 

Noema

Member
To me Voyager represents the worst of Star Trek, in terms of the worst possible, most negative tropes that could ever emerge out of it.

Sure, there are bad TOS, TNG, or DS9 episodes, no doubt and these negative elements are present in some form or another, in episodes here and there. But Voyager was like a magnet for all this crap and they seemed to creep into every single episode. To wit:

-Technobabble up the wazoo
-Deus Ex Machina solutions to every problem
-Ridiculously retarded misunderstanding and misrepresentations of every possible scientific idea
-Sophomoric and childish morality and ethical issues
-Humanoid Alien of the week with increasingly silly ridges everywhere
-Cosmic-scale problems solved in the last 5 minutes

In other words, everything that could ever suck about Star Trek rolled up into a stinking shit burrito.
 

benjipwns

Banned
The series really did a disservice to the characters. They couldn't even keep straight if Janeway or Chakotay wanted to defend the Prime Directive. (I could even see that latter character change, in that he overcompensated as he came into command.)

You can somewhat tell when they realize the Janeway lockstep to Starfleet regulations won't work, and they just abandon it for her personal whims* but have nothing but Chakotay or Tuvok whining a few times to replace it.

The Equinox and other episodes truly explored these issues but refused to let anything but Voyager be right.

*Which could have been a good show if let these be addressed.
 
To me Voyager represents the worst of Star Trek, in terms of the worst possible, most negative tropes that could ever emerge out of it.

Sure, there are bad TOS, TNG, or DS9 episodes, no doubt and these negative elements are present in some form or another, in episodes here and there. But Voyager was like a magnet for all this crap and they seemed to creep into every single episode. To wit:

-Technobabble up the wazoo
-Deus Ex Machina solutions to every problem
-Ridiculously retarded misunderstanding and misrepresentations of every possible scientific idea
-Sophomoric and childish morality and ethical issues
-Humanoid Alien of the week with increasingly silly ridges everywhere
-Cosmic-scale problems solved in the last 5 minutes

In other words, everything that could ever suck about Star Trek rolled up into a stinking shit burrito.
SPACE DINOSAURS
 
SPACE DINOSAURS

Oddly, every other show that I've seen space dinosaurs in, it's been fine. Silurians are pretty good most of the time, Grimlock king…

Okay, fine, that's all I got. Maybe other people watched Dino-riders, but I don't know if there was a space component to that, as I never watched it. :p
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Just showing some love for enterprise. People seem to forget it exists. I really hate how it ended though.

What do you mean? I thought the two-parter with Peter Weller was pretty good. A little rushed, but a pretty good ending for the show.

I thought it was fitting for a Trek show ending to be about overcoming those last few voices of prejudice and xenophobia.
 

Mitsurux

Member
Just showing some love for enterprise. People seem to forget it exists. I really hate how it ended though.

Thanks to it being on netflix I have begun to watch Enterprise and while i dislike the (ie hate) the theme song... i really am enjoying most of the episodes (mind you i nver wathced this during it original run).. i'm anout miday through season 2 and there are been some really strong episodes and only a few weak ones... pretty good show so far
 

Slayven

Member
I love Enterprise for finally putting a good ol' boy in space. Tucker could have gotten the Enterprise up to Warp 7 if he had a weekend, a sixpack, and a shady tree.
 
Thanks to it being on netflix I have begun to watch Enterprise and while i dislike the (ie hate) the theme song... i really am enjoying most of the episodes (mind you i nver wathced this during it original run).. i'm anout miday through season 2 and there are been some really strong episodes and only a few weak ones... pretty good show so far

My personal opinion is a bit different. Enterprise didn't have many really bad episodes that Voager had, but it also lacked the really good ones during the first two seasons. Everything was just very average... Season 3 gets a bit more interesting, and season 4 was pretty damn good. Too bad it ended there...
 
I love Enterprise for finally putting a good ol' boy in space. Tucker could have gotten the Enterprise up to Warp 7 if he had a weekend, a sixpack, and a shady tree.

Er. You mean like Leonard McCoy? The old country doctor who snuck in a bit of bourbon every now and again, then patched you up and sent you on your way?

edit:

My personal opinion is a bit different. Enterprise didn't have many really bad episodes that Voager had, but it also lacked the really good ones during the first two seasons. Everything was just very average... Season 3 gets a bit more interesting, and season 4 was pretty damn good. Too bad it ended there...

Yeah, Enterprise's true sin was really being kinda boring from the start and for quite some time. Viewers were trained to tune out until they stopped tuning in.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Yeah, Enterprise's true sin was really being kinda boring from the start and for quite some time. Viewers were trained to tune out until they stopped tuning in.
I like the part when they're all "hey, we're going to introduce this classic race you know and love, how will Archer and crew handle it?!?!?" and then it's the same as any other dope of the week and nobody cares.
 

Rinoa

Member
Any more (good) TNG youtube reviews anywhere? I can't get enough of them and sfdebris is always reviewing other stuff..
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
I like the part when they're all "hey, we're going to introduce this classic race you know and love, how will Archer and crew handle it?!?!?" and then it's the same as any other dope of the week and nobody cares.

Who are you talking about?
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
IIRC, it was more that everybody's contracts were expiring, and (during season 6) nobody knew if there was going to be a season 8, so they were offering 1-year contract extensions, with maybe the hope of some more 1-year extensions being offered sometime down the road. Becker was offering her a multi-year contract, so that was stable, and worth more.

And I think she said that if she had known that season 7 was going to be the final season, she would have stuck around for one more year just to see the project through to the end. So if they had known it was going to be 1 more year, or if they had known it was going to be 2 or 3 more years, they might've been able to keep her. The timing didn't matter so much as the uncertainty.

And yeah, she didn't want to be killed off. She just wanted them to write around her, and not draw attention to her disappearance, and then she could come back into the role as a special guest star anytime they needed her to be in an episode and she had enough time to do it.

Killing a character off is usually a bonus that they give an actor, because then you get the somewhat-rare experience of acting out a death scene, and you basically own the character and can take it with you when you leave, but they gave Jadzia a pretty lame death with almost no acting potential, and then they even sort of recast Dax. As deaths go (from an actor's perspective), Jadzia's death really sucked.

And her contract didn't allow them to use her image outside of contracted seasons, so it's not like she "didn't let them" put her in the final episode. They would've had to "hire her" through her agent if they wanted to use her image in the last episode, and supposedly they decided not to even ask because they were overbudget as-is. Terry Farrell might have let them use her image in the last episode for free, heck, she might even have agreed to record new footage for free, but that's the sort of thing that agents stop you from doing. So if they didn't have the money, there was really no reason for the producers to even ask.
For whatever reason, 6 seasons was the standard length contract. Even the Enterprise actors got 6 years even though the show only lasted four. I don't know if that's Star Trek standard or industry standard.

And yeah, in her position, it made a lot of sense to take Becker. What's so crazy is that they couldn't work out some kind of deal between the two shows since Becker was a CBS/Paramount show as well. It was in their interest to both keep Trek going and maybe have some Trek fans check out a show led by Ted Danson. But who knows.

And for some reason, I've always had it in my head that Farrell was better about the death, so she refused to let them use her image in the finale. Given that it's quite possibly the biggest omission in the finale, if it really WAS a case of Berman/whomever being cheap, then my opinion of them has dropped even lower.

I really just think Ezri is the worst thing to happen to DS9, with Worf being arguably a close second (mostly because I don't have a Klingon fetish), so with years of distance I've cooled off on the show at least.

I wish more people would read that book. I've owned and loved it for years and years, probably read it almost cover to cover at least 4 times, it just compliments the show SO well. It's a travesty for any fan NOT to read it.
Yeah. Is the book still in print or available on ebook form somewhere? It's a great piece of history.

What's totally insane is that the Voyager companion was such a piece of garbage. I picked it up expecting a similar in depth look at the show and it was basically an over-glorified episode guide in print form. Yuck.

Actually, she didn't ditch Becker, she was fired. "Fired" meaning, her contract ran out, and they refused to give her a new one.

Becker's producer claimed that there was no malice in letting her go, he just wanted to freshen up the show, and this was the only idea that he was confident would deliver results. But it lends weight to rumors that she was hard to work with.
Yeah, she was fired... but hey, at least she wasn't killed off in that show! lol


Whoa so Ezri Dax actually exists o.o I'm not being sarcastic it's just that I only now am in process of watching DS9 completely while I only saw a few sporadic episodes as a kid here and there. And all the time the name Ezri Dax flew around my mind :/ Same with her looks, I always thought I saw a different Dax too when I watched it as a kid though by now I thought I must have been imagining things so it's quite a "mind blown" moment for me as I read your post :p

I really don't mind the spoiler either because ever since I started to watch anime I got used to it that the characters I like often die at some point so it's actually good that I'm warned now :)
Haha, I just take it for granted that people know Ezri since the show is so old, so apologies. lol
 

TheYanger

Member
Amazon has used copies for like 20 bucks...I wonder how beat up they are. It is a pretty tough book to keep in good condition - paperback, huge, shitty 'glossy' cover stuff peels off. Mine looks ragged and I pride my things on being pristine. Those new copies are worth a shitload wow, I bought it for like 25 new when the dvds came out D:
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Amazon has used copies for like 20 bucks...I wonder how beat up they are. It is a pretty tough book to keep in good condition - paperback, huge, shitty 'glossy' cover stuff peels off. Mine looks ragged and I pride my things on being pristine. Those new copies are worth a shitload wow, I bought it for like 25 new when the dvds came out D:
Yeah, I bought it when it was new.

I wonder if they just lost the rights to the book or something, because it's probably one of the best and most definitive Star Trek reference books to date. Still, 20 bucks ain't that bad if you are a big DS9 fan or are just interested in how Trek was made during the height of the franchise.
 
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