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[Sapiens]

I dont think the lady who played her in ST3 even knew what a Vulcan was. She was far too emotional to be playing that character.

ST3 was just a big piece of shit all around. Everything about it is awful. From start to end. Save for the special effects of course. I'm surprised that Nimoy was able to pull off ST4 as well as he did. I'm under the impression that ST3 was mostly Harve Bennet's baby while ST4 was pretty much Nimoy and Meyer.

I'll never understand how they were able to justify replacing the mysterious Kirstie Alley with that other woman, I never will.

The moment that they recast her, that was it for that character. For any "turn" to be important, it would have had to have been Alley in ST6.

I'm happy with the way it turned out. ST6 is the ST film I really hated as a kid, but clicked when I turned 21 or so and saw it on a marathon. I simply could not believe how masterful it was.

Nick Meyer...

 

[Zzoram]

I'm pretty sure she wasn't played by Jolene Blalock.

She had brain damage from the mind meld rape that made her more emotional. Then there was the Rajiin mental attack and the Trillium-D. She has plenty of excuses for being emotional.



But ya, ST6 was clearly supposed to have Savik. Spock saying that he trained Valeris to be his replacement made no sense since he was clearly training Savik for 2 movies prior.

 

[Escape Goat]

She had brain damage from the mind meld rape that made her more emotional. Then there was the Rajiin mental attack and the Trillium-D. She has plenty of excuses for being emotional.

Plus being an actor and told you have to not emote is probably the worst job ever. or the easiest.

 

[Sapiens]

Plus being an actor and told you have to not emote is probably the worst job ever. or the easiest.

David is dead.

Also, her hair was completely awful.

 

[Zzoram]

Plus being an actor and told you have to not emote is probably the worst job ever. or the easiest.

Naw, being told not to emote while wearing a helmet/mask/makeup that obscures your face is the worst.

Actors trade on their faces being recognizable. Actors hate playing aliens or masked people because you don't see their face as much. Movies are typically written so that masked heroes spend the bare minimum of screen time with the mask actually covering their face. Captain America in the Avengers even had a scene where a Chitauri pulls off his mask so they have an excuse to have him not wear a mask for the rest of the movie. Iron Man only works because they keep showing RDJ's face behind the helmet.

 

[Escape Goat]

Naw, being told not to emote while wearing a helmet/mask/makeup that obscures your face is the worst.

Actors trade on their faces being recognizable. Actors hate playing aliens or masked people because you don't see their face as much. Movies are typically written so that masked heroes spend the bare minimum of screen time with the mask actually covering their face. Captain America in the Avengers even had a scene where a Chitauri pulls off his mask so they have an excuse to have him not wear a mask for the rest of the movie. Iron Man only works because they keep showing RDJ's face behind the helmet.

Tell that to Levar burton. They took away his eyes. HIS EYES!

 

[Sapiens]

Naw, being told not to emote while wearing a helmet/mask/makeup that obscures your face is the worst.

Actors trade on their faces being recognizable. Actors hate playing aliens or masked people because you don't see their face as much. Movies are typically written so that masked heroes spend the bare minimum of screen time with the mask actually covering their face. Captain America in the Avengers even had a scene where a Chitauri pulls off his mask so they have an excuse to have him not wear a mask for the rest of the movie. Iron Man only works because they keep showing RDJ's face behind the helmet.

The dudes that played Martok and Gowron overcame that shit though.

 

[Zzoram]

The dudes that played Martok and Gowron overcame that shit though.

Recognizable voices can overcome roles where their face is unrecognizable. In fact, all the Trek actors that are reused for multiple roles I only recognize by their voice.

 

[DrForester]

Naw, being told not to emote while wearing a helmet/mask/makeup that obscures your face is the worst.

Actors trade on their faces being recognizable. Actors hate playing aliens or masked people because you don't see their face as much. Movies are typically written so that masked heroes spend the bare minimum of screen time with the mask actually covering their face. Captain America in the Avengers even had a scene where a Chitauri pulls off his mask so they have an excuse to have him not wear a mask for the rest of the movie. Iron Man only works because they keep showing RDJ's face behind the helmet.

Worf did fine, as did most of the series Klingons.

 

[Zzoram]

So Enterprise is way better than I remember. I'd say Enterprise is solidly above Voyager and on par with the other series in enjoyability.

S3 and S4 are really solid and fun. Excellent action, and best of all, they remember ship damage on this show! Damage doesn't just get mysteriously fixed between episodes.

S3 of Enterprise is what Voyager's Year of Hell should've been, a full season arc that remembers the events of past episodes and has the ship get increasingly damaged and low on resources while navigating an extremely hostile region of space where they get attacked on sight at nearly every encounter.

 

[DrForester]

Enterprise was never great, Voyager at least could occasional be great. Voyager had a few very good characters, no one in Enterprise was that good.

 

[Zzoram]

Enterprise was never great, Voyager at least could occasional be great. Voyager had a few very good characters, no one in Enterprise was that good.

Maybe Enterprise's characters weren't as strong as The Doctor and Seven but the action, pacing and stories were better than Voyager. Also, Enterprise had Shran as a great recurring character.

 

[Bloodbeard]

About to start a watch-through of Enterprise for the first time. Hope you guys saying it's good are right.

 

[Zzoram]

About to start a watch-through of Enterprise for the first time. Hope you guys saying it's good are right.

Do you plan to watch everything or skip episodes? I recommend you watch these episodes for sure.

Season 1
------------------
Broken Bow
Andorian Incident
Cold Front
Shadows of P'Jem
Fusion
Detained
Shockwave Part 1

Season 2
------------------
Shockwave Part 2
Minefield
Dead Stop
Cease Fire
Future Tense
Regeneration
The Expanse

Season 3 and 4 you can watch in their entirety. There are a few duds but they are overwhelmingly good.

 

[flyover]

So I just finished reading David Mack's latest trilogy (Cold Equations) and it started out great, with it focusing around soong and androids and the breen and gorn. But the third book just went a little off the fucking rails. I like Mack, I think he knows how to toe the line between ridiculous and entertaining, but this one was a bit much. I did appreciate his attempt to redeem Wesley somewhat.

Yeah I just read the whole trilogy this week, and the third one was just wacky. Mack is usually great (and even in the third book he gets the characters' voices right), but the story wasn't so hot.

Don't know if the plot points were mandated by the book series' canon overseers, or if Mack was given free rein. Still worth reading, but not up to his Destiny trilogy, which was really good.

I never read any of these tie-ins until this past summer, and I'm surprised at how well many of them fill the void left by having no TV show. They're perfect airplane and holiday reading, when you want to cruise through a book in a single sitting.

 

[DrForester]

Maybe Enterprise's characters weren't as strong as The Doctor and Seven but the action, pacing and stories were better than Voyager. Also, Enterprise had Shran as a great recurring character.

There's a few episodes of Voyager (not many), that I think can stand with the best in the franchise. Enterprise just never got beyond decent. The Xindi arc was fairly enjoyable, but it was still pretty mashed up. Season 4 had a few decent stories, but none of them were really exceptional, just a improvement over what we had seen in the early seasons. The fact that the crew was full of idiots didn't help things. At least Janeway didn't let her dog piss all over a alien race's sacred trees and then wonder why they were offended.

 

[Zzoram]

There's a few episodes of Voyager (not many), that I think can stand with the best in the franchise. Enterprise just never got beyond decent. The Xindi arc was fairly enjoyable, but it was still pretty mashed up. Season 4 had a few decent stories, but none of them were really exceptional, just a improvement over what we had seen in the early seasons. The fact that the crew was full of idiots didn't help things. At least Janeway didn't let her dog piss all over a alien race's sacred trees and then wonder why they were offended.

Um, Voyager's crew had Neelix, a character far worse than all of Enterprise's characters worst traits combined.

What Voyager episode stands with the best in the franchise?

 

[siddx]

Yeah I just read the whole trilogy this week, and the third one was just wacky. Mack is usually great (and even in the third book he gets the characters' voices right), but the story wasn't so hot.

Don't know if the plot points were mandated by the book series' canon overseers, or if Mack was given free rein. Still worth reading, but not up to his Destiny trilogy, which was really good.

I never read any of these tie-ins until this past summer, and I'm surprised at how well many of them fill the void left by having no TV show. They're perfect airplane and holiday reading, when you want to cruise through a book in a single sitting.

Yeah they've taken up that spot left by having no trek show anymore, just wish they came out more often. I do like how they decided to try and have more consistent canon across the different books. Between the Typhoon pact books (horribly inconsistent quality aside) the new Voyager books, the DTI books (hope we get more of those) and David Mack's output we have a really good widespread range of trek that continues the TV trek universe.

I was under the impression that Mack had a lot of control over the book canon since he kind of jump started this whole think with the Destiny novels (I think there were one or two books in the same canon before him but his was the "big" event).

 

[DrForester]

Um, Voyager's crew had Neelix, a character far worse than all of Enterprise's characters worst traits combined.

What Voyager episode stands with the best in the franchise?

I'd say "Living Witness", "The Thaw", and "Timeless" were all exceptional episodes of Voyager, the last one deserves even more praise for not only being an excellent episode, but doing so with the two most neglected characters of the series. Better than stuff like "City on the Edge of Forever", "The Inner Light", and "In The Pale Moonlight", no. But certainly up there.

 

[Bloodbeard]

Do you plan to watch everything or skip episodes?

I'm in no rush to get through it, so all of them. I can put up with a few dud episodes here and there...it's all part of the experience.

 

[Cheerilee]

Was just looking over Memory Alpha's page on Saavik.

They had to recast Kirstie Alley because they were too dumb to include sequels in her ST2 contract? And then they and she were both fine with giving her double her previous movie money, but her agent demanded that she get Shatner/Nimoy levels of money, so they just dumped her and recast (because Saavik's role in ST3 was too important to write out)?

And then Saavik was supposed to have gotten pregnant with Spock's kid on the Genesis planet and she never told him? (Lines of her discussing it with Kirk were cut, but Saavik still disembarks to vacation with Spock's mom for a few months.) That puts some extra impact into her scenes in ST6.

And then the ST6 director/producers wanted to get Kirstie Alley back for 6, but she was too expensive, and Saavik #2 was still available, but they said they'd rather dump Saavik #2 from the movie and rename her part, rather than asking her actress to appear again?

What a mess.

I dont think the lady who played her in ST3 even knew what a Vulcan was. She was far too emotional to be playing that character.

Even though she was familiar with Leonard Nimoy's depiction of Spock in Star Trek: The Original Series, Curtis felt that her familiarity with Vulcans generally was "not to the extent that I felt remotely like I could play the part."

Apparently her acting coach taught her how to relax all of her face-muscles, and she trusted Nimoy, the director, to know how a Vulcan should act, and she listened to his extensive advice on the subject, and did anything he asked her to do, without hesitation.

 

[maharg]

There's a few episodes of Voyager (not many), that I think can stand with the best in the franchise. Enterprise just never got beyond decent. The Xindi arc was fairly enjoyable, but it was still pretty mashed up. Season 4 had a few decent stories, but none of them were really exceptional, just a improvement over what we had seen in the early seasons. The fact that the crew was full of idiots didn't help things. At least Janeway didn't let her dog piss all over a alien race's sacred trees and then wonder why they were offended.

On the other hand she murdered a crewmember in cold blood, so... even I guess?

 

[Htown]

Zzoram I'm fixin yer list with additions and descriptions

Do you plan to watch everything or skip episodes? I recommend you watch these episodes for sure.

Season 1
------------------
Broken Bow - pilot, series setup
Andorian Incident - first Andorian/Vulcan episode
Cold Front - entertaining Temporal Cold War shenanigans
Dear Doctor - somewhat controversial episode about pre-"Prime directive" first contacts
Shadows of P'Jem - Vulcan/Andorian business
Shuttlepod One - Bromance Begins
Fusion - Vulcan stuff, important for T'Pol
Shockwave Part 1 - very entertaining Temporal Cold War shenanigans, season finale

Season 2
------------------
Shockwave Part 2 - decent Temporal Cold War shenanigans, season opener
Minefield - oh hey it's these guys
Dead Stop - shit went wrong last week, now they actually have to fix it
Cease Fire - Vulcan/Andorian business
Future Tense - entertaining Temporal Cold War shenanigans
Cogenitor - when keeping it real goes wrong
Regeneration - they're baaaaack
First Flight - a sort of "prequel" to the series
The Expanse - shit just got real

That ought to do it.

Season 3 and 4 you can watch in their entirety. There are a few duds but they are overwhelmingly good.

Nope. Skip Extinction in Season 3, and maybe Bound in Season 4.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So I just finished reading David Mack's latest trilogy (Cold Equations) and it started out great, with it focusing around soong and androids and the breen and gorn. But the third book just went a little off the fucking rails. I like Mack, I think he knows how to toe the line between ridiculous and entertaining, but this one was a bit much. I did appreciate his attempt to redeem Wesley somewhat.

I think I know what you mean. It's nice that just using text the books can have all the scale in the world, but it's so far-fetched when our heroes keep not only solving the types of problems we'd see often on TV or movies, but galaxy/universe/multiverse-wide problems. Apparently everyone else in the universe sucks at this sort of thing.

 

[antonz]

Was just looking over Memory Alpha's page on Saavik.

They had to recast Kirstie Alley because they were too dumb to include sequels in her ST2 contract? And then they and she were both fine with giving her double her previous movie money, but her agent demanded that she get Shatner/Nimoy levels of money, so they just dumped her and recast (because Saavik's role in ST3 was too important to write out)?

And then Saavik was supposed to have gotten pregnant with Spock's kid on the Genesis planet and she never told him? (Lines of her discussing it with Kirk were cut, but Saavik still disembarks to vacation with Spock's mom for a few months.) That puts some extra impact into her scenes in ST6.

And then the ST6 director/producers wanted to get Kirstie Alley back for 6, but she was too expensive, and Saavik #2 was still available, but they said they'd rather dump Saavik #2 from the movie and rename her part, rather than asking her actress to appear again?

What a mess.



Apparently her acting coach taught her how to relax all of her face-muscles, and she trusted Nimoy, the director, to know how a Vulcan should act, and she listened to his extensive advice on the subject, and did anything he asked her to do, without hesitation.

Alley let cheers go to her head. They wanted to bring her back for the Kelsey Grammer episode in TNG and have her in a non speaking Cameo role as Saavik but she demanded crazy amounts of money on an already expensive to make tv show so they wrote her out again.

 

[Jackpot]

Tuvok was in generations (no not really but it is Tim Russ who apparently auditioned for every role in hollywood)

Actually it was "Tuvok". There's a flashback episode in Voyager where the Excelsior is trying to penetrate Klingon space to rescue Kirk & McCoy from Rura Penthe.

edit: scrap that. Confusing Ent-B scene with Excelsior's Praxis shock wave encounter.

 

[maharg]

Actually it was "Tuvok". There's a flashback episode in Voyager where the Excelsior is trying to penetrate Klingon space to rescue Kirk & McCoy from Rura Penthe.

edit: scrap that. Confusing Ent-B scene with Excelsior's Praxis shock wave encounter.

His ears are naturally pointy enough you could just assume he's tuvok anyways.

 

[Zzoram]

Zzoram I'm fixin yer list with additions and descriptions


That ought to do it.


Nope. Skip Extinction in Season 3, and maybe Bound in Season 4.

That's skipping 1 ep per season, not bad at all.

 

[Cheerilee]

Alley let cheers go to her head. They wanted to bring her back for the Kelsey Grammer episode in TNG and have her in a non speaking Cameo role as Saavik but she demanded crazy amounts of money on an already expensive to make tv show so they wrote her out again.

Nah, she was an ex-cokehead Scientologist before she even considered getting into acting. Her head and money were gone long before Cheers.

 

[Htown]

That's skipping 1 ep per season, not bad at all.

there's actually one or two more bad episodes in season 3, but they're usually at least somewhat important to the plot, so they stayed in.

You could also skip Deadalus in season 4 without missing anything, but whatevs. You're right, season 3 and 4 are the good shit.

 

[Synth_floyd]

I always wondered why they called her Mr. Saavik? Is it just a Vulcan thing?

I heard that Valeris from ST6 was supposed to be Saavik but they didn't want her to betray the Federation so they made it a new character.

 

[Escape Goat]

I always wondered why they called her Mr. Saavik? Is it just a Vulcan thing?

I heard that Valeris from ST6 was supposed to be Saavik but they didn't want her to betray the Federation so they made it a new character.

Gene was a military man and I believe itis customary.

 

[Cheerilee]

I heard that Valeris from ST6 was supposed to be Saavik but they didn't want her to betray the Federation so they made it a new character.

According to Memory Alpha, the first idea they had for Saavik in the movie was for her to betray the Federation. Then they thought maybe it was a bit too much so they canned that idea.

Then they found that Kirstie Alley was unaffordable, and they decided that they'd sooner cut Saavik's role from the movie completely or maybe just change her name instead of letting the actress who played Saavik in ST3 come back for the final movie in the franchise (ice cold).

Then they realized that if Saavik was changed to "not-Saavik", they could bring her betrayal plot back in and it wouldn't matter.

 

[The Librarian]

Re-watched "Timeless" for the first time in a while. Garret Wang's acting wasn't as good as I remember, but my favorite part of the episode was when he yelled "YES!" after sending the disrupting phase corrections. What a great moment.

Can't tell if I found Neelix's brief appearance funny because of what Chuck will eventually say about the scene or because I just find his character hilarious by how annoying everyone thinks of him. Probably a little of both.

Overall a very good episode. Haven't heard the Voyager theme in a while, so got a bit misty eyed when the opening credits began. It's a beautiful song that reminds me of when I was twelve and thirteen constantly wondering about what's out there in deep space.

 

[DrForester]

On the other hand she murdered a crewmember in cold blood, so... even I guess?

At least the decision made some sense. Janeway wanted her friend back. It was a selfish decision on her part, yes, but at least it made sense in context. Archer took his dog on an away mission to an easily offended race, and then is shocked that the dog pissing on their sacred trees is met with outrage. This was well before Porthos was known to be sick too.

 

[Escape Goat]

Tuvix was one of the best episodes. GAF consensus and I have totally different views on it though.

 

[The Elite]

Thoughts on TNG: The Chase?

A completely throwaway episode that just happens to link several major species in the galaxy to a common ancestor.

I haven't watched it in years but I remember it striking me as an important discovery that was completely dismissed after that episode. Has any other Trek ever explored the revelation from that episode?

Does anyone care?

 

[DrForester]

Thoughts on TNG: The Chase?

A completely throwaway episode that just happens to link several major species in the galaxy to a common ancestor.

I haven't watched it in years but I remember it striking me as an important discovery that was completely dismissed after that episode. Has any other Trek ever explored the revelation from that episode?

Does anyone care?

I didn't really think it needed a followup. I thought it was a fun episode that tries to explain why aliens look so similar.

 

[SpoonyBard]

I didn't really think it needed a followup. I thought it was a fun episode that tries to explain why aliens look so similar.

It was also poorly paced, with people just running from one place to another. It would have been a good two parter insted if done correctly..

 

[Zzoram]

At least the decision made some sense. Janeway wanted her friend back. It was a selfish decision on her part, yes, but at least it made sense in context. Archer took his dog on an away mission to an easily offended race, and then is shocked that the dog pissing on their sacred trees is met with outrage. This was well before Porthos was known to be sick too.

That was really early in the show when Archer was still noob at diplomacy. He was the first human captain on his first mission. Archer gets a lot better in S3/S4. Janeway stays Janeway.

Rewatching TNG, Picard is an exceptional diplomat, far moreso than any other captain.

 

[TAJ]

Any reboot is essentially going to be TNG rebooted. It may have TOS characters/references but it will be updated in a way that isn't as hokey. Enterprise really streamlined a lot of the SFX and technology in ways that really made TOS irrelevant.

Wat
TOS is enjoying a huge resurgence in theaters. And no one watched Enterprise, not even me.

 

[DrForester]

That was really early in the show when Archer was still noob at diplomacy. He was the first human captain on his first mission. Archer gets a lot better in S3/S4. Janeway stays Janeway.

Rewatching TNG, Picard is an exceptional diplomat, far moreso than any other captain.

There's a big difference between being poor at diplomacy and letting your dog piss all over stuff.

 

[kharma45]

Wat
TOS is enjoying a huge resurgence in theaters. And no one watched Enterprise, not even me.

you missed out on some good stuff then, especially in the last two seasons.

 

[Synth_floyd]

Gene was a military man and I believe itis customary.

I'm pretty sure that all the military stuff wasn't added in until Wrath of Khan and Roddenberry hated the "militarization" of the federation. If that's the reason then it would've been due to Nick Meyer.

 

[antonz]

Enterprise picked up a lot when they finally got rid of Berman and brought in tried and true Trek writers etc. Berman just did too much damage in his stay to recover.

Would have been fun to see Season 5 and them transitioning more and more towards TOS

 

[8bit]

Thoughts on TNG: The Chase?

A completely throwaway episode that just happens to link several major species in the galaxy to a common ancestor.

I haven't watched it in years but I remember it striking me as an important discovery that was completely dismissed after that episode. Has any other Trek ever explored the revelation from that episode?

Does anyone care?

Isn't Prometheus pretty much a sequel to that one?

 

[Melchiah]

Gag Reel - Star Trek "The Next Generation" Season 2 (HD)
http://youtu.be/7_nVEm5Yc3c

Star Trek as The Love Boat
http://youtu.be/SWyxZR69CI0

These made me laugh out loud.

 

[Ohwiseone]

Never watched DS9, i have two weeks before I start school again, and I need something to watch.

Help-me Gaf, let me know what is the best and worst of that season.

 

[The Elite]

Isn't Prometheus pretty much a sequel to that one?

There have been a lot of franchises both before and after that have tried to establish an advanced "precursor" that was wiped out eons ago with the current civilizations piecing together the mystery of their existence.

Of course when I try to think of a bunch of them I draw a blank but here are the obvious ones:

Stargate
Halo
Alien/Prometheus (recently)
Babylon 5
Ass Creed

I don't know why, but that concept never really fit for Trek. I liked the episode. Poorly paced but a fun "easter egg hunt" adventure that sticks out for me till this day. However, I think the concept was avoided after that because no one saw much need for it.

 

[firehawk12]

Mass Effect. lol